Submitted via IRC for ErnestTBass
Fifty-year-old job seekers are up to three times less likely to be selected for interview than younger applicants with less relevant experience, a major new study shows.
Research found that applications from 28-year-old white men were three times more likely to get an interview than those sent by 50-year-old black women, and over twice as likely as those sent by 50-year-old white women.
Academics from Anglia Ruskin and Cyprus universities applied for 811 sales and service jobs in England, sending in applications from fictional British job seekers.
One was a 28-year-old white man with nine years' experience relevant to the job, and the others were from 50-year-old white and black men and women with 31 years' relevant experience. All the fictional applicants said they were employed at the time, and their age and ethnic background were noted on their CVs.
Researchers found that applications from young white men were:
- 1.8 times more likely to be selected for interview than ones from 50-year-old white men
- 2.3 times more likely to be selected than those from 50-year-old white women
- 2.6 times more likely to be selected than those from 50-year-old black men
- 3 times more likely to be selected than those from 50-year-old black women.
Professor Nick Drydakis, Dr. Anna Paraskevopoulou of the School of Business and Law, Anglia Ruskin University, and Dr. Vasiliki Bozani of Economics Research Centre, University of Cyprus, also found that the young men were accepted for interview for jobs that paid more highly, around £19,863, than the ones that 50-year-old men were invited to, around £17,552, 13% lower.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 28 2019, @07:33PM (10 children)
Try being a White male and applying to one of those cushy local or state government jobs. Good fucking luck with that, Jared Preston Stafford. All the qualifications and fitness won't do a goddamn thing to prevent that slot being filled by some nose-picking ass-scratching illiterate Mexican.
As far as the age aspect, if I ran a business, I'd hire plenty of geezers. The bad stereotype of geezers is that they are too set in their ways to be flexible, but my experience is that the stereotype is bullshit. Sure, some geezers are inflexible, but look at all those millennial punks who can't be pried from their phones. It's like in that comic Peanuts with Linus and his security blanket -- well, millennial scum deserve a blanket allright: a smallpox blanket.
But where was I going with that? Oh yeah, geezers have really cool stories. Go geezers!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @07:56PM (2 children)
And I thought, "How nice that EF would hire greezers, maybe he's not the racist bastard everyone knows he is." But then I re-read. Where are my damn reading glasses? How do you make the font bigger on this damn browser? Get off my lawn!!!!
(Score: 4, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 28 2019, @08:15PM (1 child)
Hold down the "Ctrl" key and scroll the mousewheel upward. No, scroll it with your finger moving upward, not the bottom of the wheel moving upward! No, lift your finger everytime you scroll the mouse wheel upward or else you won't get anywhere! Goddammit, just put on your glasses and click!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @07:00AM
What's a mousewheel? Is it the ball thingie at the bottom? Seriously that thing picks up all sorts of junk and I have clean it so often...
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @07:57PM (3 children)
They'll hire the cheapest labor they can get (non-white) and then have the few crackers that they keep around to fix the (non-white) fuckups. Corporate greed, AKA profit.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 28 2019, @08:22PM
I see you have experience working in local or state government.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:37PM (1 child)
You are delusional. It ain't the "crackas" aka "white niggers", it's the few Asians and Jews they hire to clean up the cockups.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:40PM
Oops, nevermind. You were talking about gov't offices.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @11:03PM
More stupid than we need. It's EF being EF.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @01:59AM
It's worse than you think: https://www.aclu-wa.org/cases/montes-v-city-yakima-0 [aclu-wa.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @03:46AM
First we outsourced to India because their wages were cheaper.
Saving money they said.
Then we outsourced to India for staffing levels.
Can't find enough people locally they said.
Then we insourced from India so they work next to us.
Better for collaboration they said.
Then they stated laying us off or letting us go or not hiring us.
The outsourcers are cheaper they said.
Then they started paying them the same as us.
They do the same job so they get the same wage they said.
Now we have entire floors of Indians. Every couple of months a get together to celebrate inclusiveness and multiculturalism.
I see the new hires and I do wonder what is happening to my country.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by looorg on Sunday April 28 2019, @07:43PM (6 children)
It's not really a surprise, it has been shown over and over again previously. That said I'm still skeptical in general due to at least one factor -- it might not scale or you might not be able to generalize this on a bigger group or segment of the job market as a whole. The keywords here might be "811 sales and service jobs in England", sales and service jobs are usually not jobs where the employees are or are supposed to be middle age or above. Instead these tend to be entry level jobs, not only in the company but also into the job market. But if you get stuck there as you get older things might start to suck hard indeed.
With that in mind, this type of experimentation is just flawed -- if you believe that having a harder time getting an entry level position is somehow relevant on the job market as a whole. It might only work on this type of junior entry level positions as it becomes a lot harder to fake believable applications for more senior, and or public, positions.
I'm fairly sure that if I started to apply for junior positions in my field (or just to positions without any experience required at all) I wouldn't score a lot of success, interviews or even offers either. Does that mean the market is broken? Not really. If they are looking for entry level positions without much need for an education and such then you probably don't really want applications from middle aged white people with years of experience or education. Which sort of brings together that if you are 50+ years old and have no experience or education then what have you been doing and why shouldn't I give the chance to little Johnny-18 instead. The warning bells are ringing so loud that even the HR-drone-people are able to hear them.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Sunday April 28 2019, @08:46PM (4 children)
It may not be a surprise, but it is a problem. Employers need to do better on avoiding even the appearance of discrimination.
Assuming you could get past their barriers, do you even want to work for an employer who blatantly favors young white males?
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:09PM (1 child)
But is it really a problem? There might be other factors at work here. They might be really bad at writing applications, the HR people might have become really good at detecting bad applications or there might have been thousands of applicants for those positions so that their fake applications didn't deliver. That is not to say that there isn't any kind of age discrimination going about, there certainly is, but it might not be the only reason here for an application to be denied.
It might depend, normally I don't really know whom all their other employees are. I don't exactly perform extensive background searches on future employers. I would prefer it if they hired the one that they assumed would be the best for the company and the role. If that turns out to be a lot of young white males then that is ok with me. If you have a lot of X then to hire one !X might not somehow be better then just continuing to hire X. It might be what works for them. I don't see how doing some ratio-hiring to get some sort of gender/ethnicity mix would be any better. That appears to be a ticket to weirdness as you then eventually start to hunt for unicorns just to fill a slot, type or role and it might not really have anything to do with the actual work. I want to be hired for skills and experience and not to fill some imaginary or set quota.
That said I would probably not want to work at a place just filled with young white men anymore, it's not that they are white or men but that they are young. I'm just to old for that shit. But I wouldn't want to be the only man at a company filled with women either. That said if I had to chose I would pick the first one cause being the only cock in the domain of hens would most likely be a real drag.
(Score: 2) by https on Monday April 29 2019, @03:13PM
You could read the article, or even TFS, which mentions fictional applicants.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by crafoo on Monday April 29 2019, @12:06AM (1 child)
Strange that you would instantly jump to the discrimination theory instead of just considering plain old economic factors. I guess you could say businesses are discriminating on economic factors. It's not an irrational dislike of these particular demographics. It's just the money, man.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 29 2019, @05:53PM
People 45 or older are already a protected class in the US.
If discrimination is happening based on age then it is already illegal here...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 29 2019, @01:07AM
It also leaves out the indisputable fact that young men are the most willing to work insane hours and otherwise commit themselves to a job rather than friends/family/etc... I know I'm certainly not anymore. I have to make up for it by being a hell of a lot better at what I do than they are.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday April 28 2019, @07:54PM (1 child)
Yoda and myself never get called for interviews. But then again, we don't need to be.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @10:12PM
If only we could find a way to eradicate force ghosts.
(Score: 3, Touché) by RamiK on Sunday April 28 2019, @08:44PM
To be fair with young interviewers, they're under the illusion they're going to become rich and that anyone remotely capable and willing is equally able to strike gold so those old people looking for a job are obviously useless.
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @08:52PM
I had been sending CV and had a few interview, and from the few that I had I feel that the likeliness to be hired would be:
- Being new and young, so you could learn ropes and get you going
- Having a family and thus being in a pinch for a stable job
It seem it's more about having the right person for the right situation.
Since I'm single and got experience, what I think is that my "segment" have to be opening a company and just go at it.
I have a part time job and some funds that I saved from my previous job and I'm working on my project, so hopefully I'll finish it, open my company and see how it goes.
Anyway at some point, there can't be just 1-2 companies that will hire everyone on earth, there need to be some renewal somewhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:12PM (4 children)
Sorry but if they are 50 and looking for entry level, something has gone horribly wrong in their personal life. They would be far better suited for middle to upper management so my first question would be. Why is this person looking for entry level work? On another note, older black women are also statistically speaking far more likely to sue over harassment complaints either racial or sexual. So you are sort of rolling the dice by hiring them. Even young white females are far less likely to sue even though they are more likely to initiate formal complaints within the framework of their organization. Which is logical because young women do get sexually harassed at a rate far in excess of older women, regardless of race.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:46PM
In the last thirty years, there has been a great flattening if hierarchies. Companies create a "member of the technical staff" level where most of the hiring takes place. Based on your experience, you may get additional informal responsibilities, but you'll be working side by side with people just out of school, and you will be expected to fix their fuckups.
Unless you made it into management, your experience isn't going to count for much in the level you are hired in.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday April 28 2019, @11:36PM (2 children)
...because, statistically speaking*, older black women are far more likely to receive harassment either racial or sexual.
*If you can just use that term so can I.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 3, Troll) by crafoo on Monday April 29 2019, @12:08AM (1 child)
Are they though? Walk downtown San Fran with a MAGA hat on. See what happens.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @01:00AM
Would you literally get shat on?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by MrGuy on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:20PM (1 child)
The headline in question was sourced from TFA. Still not amazing repeating it.
I believe the data here is significant enough without needing to put a deliberately misleading spin on it.
The "three times" factor is for a different ethic group, gender, AND age. All of which affected the decision making in the study. The headline implies AGE makes you "up to three times" less likely to get an interview, which the data DOES NOT support. Age ALONE (compared to the control group) makes an applicant 1.8 times less likely to get an interview.
I support rigorous data and controlling for variables in the data. The study seems to be a reasonable one. The conclusions are significant without needing to put your thumb on the scale and overstate the effect of a single factor when in fact you're talking about the cumulative effect of three factors.
You don't do your cause any favors when your opponents can point to a history of exaggeration in reporting results that support your opinion.
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday April 28 2019, @10:29PM
You must be new to Soylent News. Where it's all about the Eye Balls. Sometimes referred to as "clicks." Because of the sound that an Eye Ball makes when it comes out of its socket. The wilder the headlines & stories -- real or Fake -- the more Eye Balls go "click." And the more "clicks," the more money the Owners rake in. Simple!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Rupert Pupnick on Sunday April 28 2019, @09:24PM (3 children)
Some commenters have already mentioned these:
- The perception that older people are somehow “inflexible”: You can’t survive in tech for 30+ years without being in a continuous state of learning and adaptation.
- From an actuarial point of view, they might not be with the company as long: True, but a younger person is just as likely to leave for a host of other reasons.
- “There must be something wrong with this guy because he’s over 50 and not a director yet”: Well, maybe he’s a person who actually enjoys tech work instead of being a political organization climber.
- “He’s probably a curmudgeon who won’t drink the Kool Aid”: This is something you actually want in your technical staff unless you’re trying to be the next Theranos.
- “This guy seems to know what he’s talking about and might represent a threat to my job”: You know what? Maybe you’re right.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday April 29 2019, @04:51AM (1 child)
Ok, I admit I am set in my ways.
There is a reason why.
I don't want to do things half-ass only to be faced with the embarrassment of a poor design.
My time is dirt cheap compared to the expenses of implementing poor designs.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 1) by Rupert Pupnick on Monday April 29 2019, @03:47PM
The best way I’ve found to deal with that problem is to ask the appropriate decision maker: “Are you sure you’ve accounted for the technical possibilities of X, Y, and Z?” and document them somewhere with a degree of visibility of your choosing. Obviously if there are major technical deal breakers that are being ignored, start looking for a new job while you still have one.
(Score: 2) by Muad'Dave on Monday April 29 2019, @12:29PM
> Well, maybe he’s a person who actually enjoys tech work instead of being a political organization climber.
That's me. I have no interest in interacting with humans any more that I absolutely must.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @10:58PM
My resume is for Mark Smith, 28 year old programmer. I show up at interview and they see a 52 year old white man sitting in front of them. They complain, I tell them I self-identify as a 28 year old black woman with Downs syndrome which allows them to meet their diversity quota with one employee. They hire me every time.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @11:04PM (3 children)
...For the past 9 months since being made redundant (that's another story, north of 50 your cards are marked for redundancy....) and lo!, they're bleating once again about a shortage of skilled IT wallahs (code for we needs more young immigrants coz we is all fuckin' multicultural an all that....)
Not that I've really needed any fucking proof of this oh so surprising finding...but this'll be useful to have handy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @11:06PM
They do the same thing here in the states. Usually the posting is something crazy intricate and says something like 'will help with h1b'
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 28 2019, @11:38PM
Is this why you deep-fry snickers bars? To cope with the redundancy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @03:50AM
With signs up all over the place in hindi and arabic saying "we will help get visa" with nicer words in english about "migrant help".
It is complete and utter bullshit.
Go for a job interview, see the 10 to 20 dark skinned people and just give up.
Is it time to move to a new country? Maybe tame Congo or something?
(Score: 2) by chewbacon on Monday April 29 2019, @01:21AM (2 children)
...is youth privilege!
Seems the younger hires with my employer are more optimistic, open to ideas, and are just riskier. Whereas older folks (like I'm becoming), are more pessimistic, probably have heard of those ideas before and have pertinent experience and opinions of them, and take less risk. Also seems that employers see a benefit in younger, less experienced talent to mold that talent for the job, whether that's true or not is another argument.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @05:04AM
Boeing... Who's designing your planes?
Which is cheaper in the long run ... Rapid path to production or some old goat throwing a monkey wrench into the works over control systems?
Lotta times, hiring managers wanna avoid people who question authority, preferring those who simply do as told. Almost always in corporations "too big to fail", where the leadership gets paid the same whether or not the product works.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @08:23AM
Younger people are more likely to do unpaid overtime to suck up to the boss. Older people fought those battles and won't take that shit.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 29 2019, @05:55PM
Never had any problem landing jobs until somewhere around age 45. Now 50, I find there is a very real sense of ageism. One recruiter told me it's not age but rather political and that larger companies list job descriptions requiring combinations of skills they know few US candidates would have. This is done to create the illusion of a talent shortage, which is then used to justify their request for additional H-1B hires. It's fucking depressing to go from feeling like a productive member of society with useful skills to complete irrelevancy. Whatever the reason, it has seriously impacted other areas of my life and I have all but withdrawn from everything. Family, friends and neighbors are sympathetic but cannot help and now avoid me. To me, it feels like everyone has distanced themselves because I'm no longer as good as them. There's a reason suicide rates rise sharply in my age group and it's something I find myself thinking about more often than can possibly be normal. I will not spend my last days losing everything I've worked for, living homeless and hungry.