Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
A "caravan" of Americans living with Type 1 diabetes made its way across the U.S. border into Canada over the weekend in search of affordable medical care in a country where they can get the "exact same" life-saving drugs for a dramatically lower price.
"We're on a #CaravanToCanada because the USA charges astronomical prices for insulin that most people can't afford," tweeted caravan member Quinn Nystrom as she shared updates on the journey.
Nystrom was among a group of Minnesotans who piled into cars on Friday to make the 600-mile journey from the Twin Cities to Fort Frances, Ontario, where she said insulin, the hormone patients with Type 1 Diabetes rely on to regulate their blood glucose levels, can be bought for a tenth of what it costs in the U.S.
The caravan was organized as part of a campaign launched under the banner "#insulinforall" to call on the U.S. government to regulate the cost of life-saving drugs, including insulin, and make medication affordable for anyone who needs it.
[...]
President Donald Trump's administration has vowed to address calls for greater drug pricing regulation. But, Democrats, including Cummings, have criticized the U.S. leader for being all talk and no action on that promise.
"Tweets are not enough," Cummings said in a statement, after Trump lamented high drug costs on Twitter. "We need real action and meaningful reform," Cummings said.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Captival on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:50PM (11 children)
And I'm sure Canada will accept them with open arms and never ask for any sort of ID or payment, since everyone should get everything for free all the time and laws don't count as long as you proclaim victim status.
(Score: 5, Informative) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:56PM
Canadian medical facilities require payment from non-resident patients to cover the expenses of care.
These payments are often a fraction of the deductible an insured american would pay for the same thing in the US.
(Score: 5, Informative) by drussell on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:32PM (5 children)
They're heading north to fill prescriptions, not see a doctor or get direct "medical care."
Prescription drugs are not free in Canada, they will need to pay for them just like anyone else would. It will just cost them significantly less than it would at home in the USA to get those prescriptions filled.
(Score: 1) by Frosty Piss on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:14PM (3 children)
Can you still load up on Percocet up there in Socialist Land?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:06PM
Username checks out
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:16PM (1 child)
Here in the good ol' US, I get Hydrocodone (generic) copay of $5 for bottle of 30.
But life saving drugs are priced out of this world. Or even routine maintenance drugs that have been around for decades.
I very strongly prefer Hydrocodone over Percocet or Oxycodone. I find it easier to STOP taking.
Why is it so difficult to break a heroine addiction?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:34PM
Wow, there are still doctors in the US who will give someone a hydrocodone prescription? I'd suggest you start looking for a new doctor now, as your current doctor will likely be arrested for running a pill mill.
Oh, and start stealing from friends now, as according to US policy, you will soon be shooting heroin and crapping on the sidewalks of the nearest big city.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:34AM
To fill a prescription in Canada, you nee a prescription from a Canadian doctor. So yes, the Caravan of Americans is heading to Canadian doctor offices.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by edIII on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:01PM (3 children)
Nice attempt at trolling dipshit. This has been going on for a long time, and not because it's free. Americans are PAYING for what they get. What you're missing, because your head is firmly shoved up your ass, is that the Canada isn't suffering from the same avarice and corruption as America.
People go up there because the medicine is actually affordable. Not because they're victims looking for free shit, but because they're discerning consumers that are taking advantage of better markets.
To be fair, the "caravan" thing triggered you I'm sure into full on Level 5 Hannity/Tucker syndrome evoking nightmarish scenes of dirty immigrants making pristine America "unclean".
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:25AM
Actually Canada has some of the highest drug costs in the world. We're just not big enough to negotiate lower prices as each Province does its own negotiating.
What's sad is that Americans consider our expensive drugs to be cheap.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-medication-costs-cmaj-study-1.4156266 [www.cbc.ca]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:40AM
Also, American Caravans are heading south to Mexico all the time to buy prescription drugs at even cheaper prices.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/30/us-health-insurer-mexico-cheap-drugs [theguardian.com]
https://khn.org/news/americans-cross-border-into-mexico-to-buy-insulin-at-a-fraction-of-u-s-cost/ [khn.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AerH9ovvJt8 [youtube.com]
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Captival on Thursday May 09 2019, @07:27AM
By having affordable, reasonably priced drugs that you aren't giving me for free while I illegally enter your country, you have proven yourself to be a horrible racist bigot. What awful fucking scum you are. I bet you voted for Trump a bunch of times, that's what evil Nazi monsters like you do.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:55PM
We need some advice from someone who lived in a vast nuclear superpower with a disproportionate military budget, yet common people having issues finding basic supplies, crumbling infrastructure, and a comfortable elite which wasn't listening.
Yes, we are preparing for yet another costly war, too. It's already impacting us at the pump.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Snow on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:01PM (8 children)
We need to stop those rapists and hooligans from entering our fine country. I hear that some of these people are like MMA fighters.... very fat MMA fighters.
We need some sort of wall (or barrier) to stop the drugs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnM-zVwUM20 [youtube.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:03PM
STFU and build a wall then!
(Score: 2) by AndyTheAbsurd on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:04PM (3 children)
It's Canada. They won't build a wall.
They'll plant a polite privacy hedge, and patrol it with Mounties on moose.
Please note my username before responding. You may have been trolled.
(Score: 2) by Snow on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:10PM (2 children)
Whatever man. Those moose will fuck you up.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:14PM (1 child)
[oblig] A moose once bit my sister...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:55PM
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the moose with the sharpened end
of an interspace toothbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an
Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian movies: "The Hot Hands of an Oslo
Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Molars of Horst Nordfink"...
Mynd you, moose bites Kan be pretti nasti...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:24PM
Deys gots Donuts of Mass Destruction! Invade dere caravans!
Eh!
(It's a jelly!)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aim on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:25AM
Threaten to build a wall and (politely? Maybe not.) ask Trump to pay for it!
I'd love to hear about his Tweets after that...
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:09PM
So, Sumo wrestlers, then?
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:05PM (16 children)
Ok, is anyone actually ever going to FIX this fucked up excuse of a health care system? Or should we all just move to Mexico or Canada now?
(Score: 5, Informative) by ilPapa on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:10PM (4 children)
Not as long as any Republicans are allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 1, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:36PM
Vote Republican in 2020. And the Republican Party will become “The Party of Healthcare!” Read my Editorial in U.S.A. Today( Censored by Biased Soylent News Editors )!!! usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/10/donald-trump-democrats-open-borders-medicare-all-single-payer-column/1560533002 [usatoday.com]
(Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:54PM (2 children)
You mean like back when the Democrats controlled the White House and both the House of Representatives and the Senate and we got stuck with a bill written by the insurance industry?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @12:20AM (1 child)
That's not entirely true. There were specific requirements (like covering pre-existing conditions, providing contraceptives and a variety of other stuff) that the insurance industry hates. Which is why they sabotaged the ACA exchanges by slashing reimbursements for those plans compared with similar, employer-provided, plans.
Oh and fuck you Max "no public option" Baucus [wikipedia.org]. I hope you die slowly and painfully.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:23PM
Fuck Obama, too. He could have tried much harder to twist arms and threatened to support primary challengers for these corporate democrats, but he didn't because he was a corporate democrat too.
(Score: 4, Informative) by edIII on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:07PM (9 children)
Sincerely doubt it. I'm moving to South America, and I haven't ruled out defecting to Cuba. Mojitos, beautiful women, and world renowned health care for a country under double embargo and sanctions.
For instance, in Peru, medical is very affordable. I can walk into a pharmacy and get what I need for pennies on the dollar.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by richtopia on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:32PM (5 children)
I always joke that my retirement plan is to be a crusty old man in Thailand. The beaches are a large draw, but the robust medical tourism industry also makes it a very attractive retirement destination.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:48PM
> robust medical tourism industry
That's the new euphemism for getting your blood pumping for cheap ?
(Score: 4, Informative) by legont on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:29PM (2 children)
Second that. Medical care is cheap and very high quality. Yes, I tried it.
Also, philosophy over there is that a patient shall not suffer but enjoy her stay in a hospital. The place typically looks, feels and smells like an upscale hotel.
A side note. Thailand has a nice retirement residency laws. One just need to show a sufficient income. An upper bound of the US pension plus a little is enough. There is no way I end up in a retirement shithole in Florida.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @01:54AM (1 child)
Yes being old and lonely in a foreign country whre you cant speak the language (seriously are you going to learn Thai in your rich westerner hotel/hospital?) - surrounded by old British gits and cheap cunts who had exactly the same idea as you. Ahhh that's the life.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday May 08 2019, @09:27AM
you say that like it's a bad thing
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:41PM
Of course, in whatever other country an American decides to retire to, whenever the US government that you escaped does something that your new country's people don't like, none of them would ever decide to take it out on that old American who lives 'round the corner. Everyone everywhere is really nice like that.
(Score: 2) by J053 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:27PM (2 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @01:56AM (1 child)
USA in 5 years - ditto.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:54AM
USA in 10 years - the weed will be as unaffordable as insulin.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @11:02AM
Don't come to Australia. Indians are filling the place up.
(Score: 2) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:08PM (2 children)
I remember watching a documentary saying Canada would build a wall if Trump were elected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFfUSxPUXKA [youtube.com]
What happened?
(Score: 4, Touché) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:49PM (1 child)
They didn't get America to pay for it. Yet.
Why is it so difficult to break a heroine addiction?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:02PM
They didn't get America to pay for it. Yet.
You say that as a joke, but I find it interesting that no one appears to have publicly entertained the idea that the wall at our southern border would be just as good at keeping Americans trying to flee, say, a fascist regime from leaving as well as it would prevent asylum seekers the ability to enter the country and apply for asylum, as is their legal right under current US law.
When it becomes obvious that people are voting with their feet (for example, by fleeing said fascist regime en masse due to economic or political chaos), it isn't all that improbably that America will build walls along its northern border, at least in the easiest to cross places. And why wouldn't we. Trump would no doubt find such a migration embarrassing, and so far he's following the Despot's Handbuch word for word. It's not like other despots haven't built walls *cough* his lover Kim Jong un *cough* etc.
At which point Canada gets (at least parts of) its wall, and yes, America pays for it.
(Score: 3, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:09PM (18 children)
So why exactly are Democrats complaining about drug prices when they didn't address the issue in the ACA that they passed without any need for Republican support because they had control of the House, Senate, and Presidency. The Democrats are hypocrites that don't actually care about people who need lower drug prices because it is better to have these people forced to vote Democrat hoping they stop accepting check from Big Pharma and instead decide to help people.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:56PM (8 children)
Serious question, why was the parent modded troll?
I had the same thoughts when the ACA passed.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:22PM
Corruption
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:36PM (5 children)
Exactly. I wasn't a Republican then, sure as fuck are not now since they're the party of White Supremacy, but the Democrats fucked us. I hate Obamacare because it forces me to financially enable corrupt for-profit hellbound institutions like medical insurance.
The only thing that makes any fucking sense, that I will participate with at all, is a single payer system. If the Democrats were truly for the people (hint: no politicians are), then they would have gutted the medical insurance markets, established single payer, and reformed how medical malpractice is handled.
Obama didn't do that, because he is a fucking politician just like the rest of them. He just serves different masters. That's really the core difference between Democrats and Republicans: different monied interests that control them.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:00PM (3 children)
Jesus who has the mod points to nuke the entire thread with troll mods?
Do you guys know what a troll is?
Troll does not mean "I disagree with you", we have a "disagree" mod for that.
It means, this post or this conversation has no worth and serves only to agitate rather than provoke discussion.
Modding content you disagree with as "troll", does two things. First off it reduces the effectiveness of the troll mod in general because you literally turn it into a case of the boy who cried wolf and therefore people will quickly learn to ignore it, thus you're wasting your own mod points trying to drown out a conversation where adults are talking and saying things you disagree with.
Secondly it reduces everyone's ability to deal with actual trolls since you have less mod points and the people who use their mod points to fix your error also have less mod points.
My advice, own your opinion. You disagree? Cool, talk with us and try to convince us to see things your way while we try to convince you to see things our way and maybe we change opinions, maybe we meet in the middle or maybe we all get bored and call each other doodie heads, who knows? It's called conversation. You're on a site where conversation is what we do. Feel free to participate, or lurk. Just don't lie to yourself and others by flagging a legit conversation, or question as a troll. Makes the whole site look bad, especially to outsiders or lurkers who might otherwise consider joining.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday May 07 2019, @11:17PM (1 child)
We're you meaning to respond to me, or did you just use me as a soapbox? :)
I agree with you though. I don't give out that many negative mods, and concentrate on elevating others,including those I've often disagree with. The troll mod is really for people like EH when they're racist slur to text ratio goes to high. The disagree mod just seems lazy to me anyways. If I want to signal that, I'll respond. Instead of modding you disagree....
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @12:48AM
Yeah you were my soapbox there, sorry about that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:07AM
Three names come to mind for likely suspects, but one of them strikes me as too reasonable to hand out -1 disagrees (instead of using the official disagree mod!) and the other two I would hope are intelligent enough and not too far gone in petty us vs. them tribal bullshit to realize this is a legitimate criticism of the Democratic Party.
We all hope that the Democratic Party can be dragged kicking and screaming leftward, but I think the Trotskyists at wswswswsws have the correct analysis. Being a capitalist party, the D team is incapable of moving leftwards at this stage of the game when the political power of capital so thoroughly supersedes the political power of a voting booth. It's a matter of class interests and the inherent class conflict capitalism creates. The capitalist parties represent bourgeois interests, such as the entrenchment of cash cows like the medical "insurance" industry (a service that pays for routine services is not insurance... buyer's club maybe but we all know they're nothing but parasites), and they are incapable of representing the working class.
The only way we're going to get single payer healthcare is through independent working class action. Not saying SEP/wswsws is the ideal vanguard party. However, they're correct in pointing out that only independent action that interrupts the flow of capital (profits) such as mass strikes will result in action benefiting the working class. Best case, there are mass, nonviolent strikes, maybe a miracle happens and the powers that be listen... but history demonstrates often there is additional escalation before there are results.... Make sure to learn the lessons of the teacher's strikes, the Matamoros strikes, and the Yellow Vests, in addition to all the lessons from the upheavals of the early 20th century and the American civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s (including the conundrum that its goals have yet to be achieved, or could be achieved under capitalism).
We are never getting single payer from the Democratic Party, no matter what noises they make when they're not in power. They could pass a bill in the house tomorrow giving us the leanest, bestest, most super-duper single payer system on the planet, only because they can count on the senate, Trump, or even SCOTUS at this point to shoot it down. They will never do that when such a bill has a chance of becoming law. What is one to do? Cry about it, or pursue a strategy that might actually result in single payer regardless of whether or not Pelosi approves?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:45PM
As a tangent to your comment here, I don't think republicans are a party in the same sense that the democrats are. For instance when you look at polls on most topics democrats are mostly engaged in let's say 'homogeneous think', whereas you find a much greater diversity of views amongst republicans. For instance gun control is a hot topic where it's supposed to be republicans want children with AKs and democrats want to ban everything down to waterguns. Here [gallup.com] is a poll with actual views on the topic.
And the democrat side is generally what you'd expect 87% want stricter laws, 10% want them as they are, and statistical noise want less strict laws. By contrast in the republican party you find 38% want more strict, 48% want them as they are, and only 10% want less strict laws. And this pattern is repeated on just about everything. For instance abortion [pewresearch.org]. 84% of democrats oppose overturning Roe vs Wade, while so do 53% of republicans while 44% would support overturning it.
The republican party is heterogeneous, which is probably why they're somewhat less effective at politicking. An ideologically diverse base means they have to play a much finer balancing act than just repeating party lines over and over. I only mention this all since it's something that's also been on my mind. I've always been quite liberal, but what the democratic party has become is something I can't really stand for anymore. And I feel myself being pushed further and further in the opposite direction. Quite a confusing position to be in being a liberal who despises the liberal party.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:30AM
Right wing politicians who worship Reagan such as Obama and Clinton.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Shire on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:31PM
Worth noting that Congress voted to exempt itself and their staff from Obamacare so they could keep their gold standard medical insurance. The constitutions "equal under the law" should have made this impossible but because the democrats controlled both houses and the whitehouse, they ramed it through anyway.
So the Dems have no reason to address the issue because it doesn't apply to them. They're happy to pass laws that the rest of us have to live under, but in their ivory tower they're safe from the effects.
There have been calls for Trump to end the exemption [thehill.com] but obviously that hasn't happened yet.
(Score: 5, Informative) by cmdrklarg on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:44PM (6 children)
Because the Democrats foolishly wanted the GOP to actually have a say in the legislation. Unfortunately, the GOP was far more interested in doing anything and everything they could to obstruct than doing anything to help deal with our fucked up healthcare system.
Why didn't the GOP fix the damned thing when they had the POTUS, House, and Senate? Those fuckers spent YEARS screeching about the horrors of the ACA. When the time came to implement their idea on fixing healthcare they couldn't. Why? Because they had NOTHING. No plan except repealing something done under Obama's administration (people just hated Obamacare, but thought the ACA was a good thing). The GOP plan was to tear it all down and leave us with NOTHING and die in the street if we couldn't afford care.
This will not be fixed until the Democrats once again get a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and control of the House and the POTUS. I suspect they will make a token effort to ask the GOP to help build it, but when the first hint of GOP obstruction rears it's head they will summarily be ignored.
Only then will we get universal single payer AKA Medicare for All.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:41PM (5 children)
The democrats' masters profit from the current system just as much as the republicans' masters. In many cases it is the same masters. Both sides will use the other for an excuse to not fix the system and it won't be fixed until you start electing people who represent you instead of some lizards.
Your number one priority should be to separate healthcare insurance from employment:
Rational reason - This will apply actual market forces to bringing down prices and increasing competition.
Ethical reason - Who you work for should not impact your health insurance
Economic reason 1 - This will make it much easier for people to switch jobs, increasing liquidity in the job market.
Economic reason 2 - It will make it easier for people to start new small businesses, which can be a major economic driver.
(Score: 3, Informative) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:52PM (4 children)
Your first paragraph is patently false if one pays attention. IIRC Obama wanted universal single payer, but he wanted a bi-partisan solution more. The ACA was spawned from a Heritage Foundation idea, and was done to make it more palatable for Republicans (unfortunately they had obstruction on their minds). Democrats did something somewhat unpopular (the ACA), Republicans' plan was to do nothing (even more unpopular). Calling them equivalent is a fallacy.
Your second paragraph is good, but incomplete. The number one priority should be to separate profit from healthcare.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:13PM (3 children)
Must have annoyed somebody, they modded it redundant. :)
There are groups that make large profits of the current system. These groups have enough influence with both red and blue that those profits are not going away easily. That's what I meant about both sides being the same. Neither side really wants to fix the system if that is going to impact profits. They will make superficial changes that seem to fit their respective ideology, but at the end of it you find that the cost to you has gone up and so have their profits. Then it's halftime, the teams change places and the new team changes it back, but somehow it costs even more.
Regarding separating profit from healthcare, that is ridiculous. The people working in healthcare have a right to make a living, and those investing in the machines and drugs to make a return on that investment.
What needs to be done is to separate health insurance from profit. The huge profits that insurance companies make are simply an unneeded cost on healthcare. The paperwork load and administrative crap overhead that they require is a massive externality they impose on the health system.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday May 09 2019, @05:42PM (2 children)
Wasn't me; you did make some good points in your previous post.
Emphasis mine quoted above. You said it yourself: the current system reaps massive profits. THIS is why it costs so damned much. THIS is why it must be separated from healthcare, period.
I do agree that both sides are too interested in "how can we pay for healthcare" instead of "how do we reduce the cost of healthcare".
But please, stop with the equivalency fallacy; both sides are NOT the same. Anyone who claims this is not paying attention. One side tried to do something about it, and the other actively obstructed instead of contributing to a solution. Not. The. Same.
Every other civilized country on the planet manages it, why can't we? Yes, there would be job losses but that would be in the administration and paperwork part.
And those investors would STILL make a healthy profit, just not the obscene ones they get now.
Agreed, but also remove profit from all other aspects of healthcare as well.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 09 2019, @11:51PM
In every other country with a working healthcare system, the people both within the system and supplying the system make money. Doctors and surgeons are highly paid. Nurses too, though I think they should get more. Equipment and drugs are sold at a profit. Making a reasonable profit is not the problem. Demanding a non-profit system is not going to fly, and will get you dismissed as a crank.
The problems are multiple:
-Medical insurance in the USA is making unreasonable profits. They extract huge amounts of money for what is basically very bad administration.
-The system encourages really inefficient use of resources. Emergency room care for what should be doctor or nurse practitioner visits.
-The disconnect between tests run at a profit and who pays for the tests encourages high prices and over-servicing. Lawsuit happy patients contribute to the CYA-more-tests syndrome.
-Exorbitant drug prices and patent/generic policies which encourage this.
BUT, the main problem,
Market forces do not apply to health insurance. The people selecting the plan are not the people using or paying for it. I would bet that in almost any company with more than 100 employees that the owners of the company do not have the same healthcare plan as they buy for the company employees.
You want to fix the system properly, single payer and universal coverage is the way to go. Currently unachievable because 'socialism' = 'communism' = 'bad'.
You want to make the system massively better with a simple change? Pass a law that says 'any healthcare plan available to a company must also be available to people on an individual and family basis at the same rate, irrespective of employment'.
Bonus points for mandating that insurance cover must act as insurance, and does NOT get to decide which providers they will pay. They can put the amount in the policy, but they cannot decide who carries out the treatment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 10 2019, @04:52AM
You have fallen for their bullshit. Both sides have had simultaneous control of both houses and the presidency at sometime in the past few years. Either side could have implemented anything they wanted. Both sides found excuses not to. Apparently the Blue side is better at convincing people they tried, but it is not true.
Getting engagement from the Red team would have been good, but it was not necessary, and any argument that it was is just another excuse.
(Score: 5, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:06PM
For the same reason the Republicans didn't vote any money to build the wall when they were in charge.
I am going to go ahead and assume it is because it's a part of the dog & pony show designed to distract the masses while the people who really run your country get on with the serious work of looting your country's wealth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:13PM
I've got this rash on my butt.
Here I come, Canuckistan.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:16PM (4 children)
I get plain text only.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:28PM
It was Canada, eh!
Sorry.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:51PM
Switch to using a GUI browser instead of text only browser.
Why is it so difficult to break a heroine addiction?
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:04PM (1 child)
Same here. Same here and it's been happening the entire time I've been on Soylent News. WHERE ARE ALL THE PICTURES? So annoying! Although, not as annoying as Unfair Down Modders &( certain )Biased Editors!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:22PM
Below this sentence is a picture of your brain at 1:1 scale size...
.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:31PM (20 children)
It’s good if you don’t mind waiting like five weeks to see a doctor. Catastrophic! Frankly, they come from Canada because they want to use our doctors. documentcloud.org/documents/1687672-leaving-canada-for-medical-care-2015.html [documentcloud.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:37PM (18 children)
Umm I just scheduled an appointment for my kids to get shots and what not. It's 6 weeks out.
This is the USA. Waiting for an appointment is a thing you do in all forms of healthcare everywhere. The doctor will see you ... When he damned well pleases.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by krishnoid on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:42PM (10 children)
I wonder why nobody's done a study about how much time and money socialized medical practices save when they don't have to manage insurance paperwork and handle payment processing, maybe allowing them to hire more support/triage staff or even doctors.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:46PM (3 children)
They did that one. Here is Link!!!! fraserinstitute.org/article/canadas-health-care-gift-horse-hardly-free [fraserinstitute.org]
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:50PM
(cont) So many Studies prooving Socialized Medicine is VERY EXPENSIVE!! Other Link. mercatus.org/publications/federal-fiscal-policy/costs-national-single-payer-healthcare-system [mercatus.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Goghit on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:05PM (1 child)
Ah yes, the Fraser Institute. Nice little business that takes Koch Bros money and turns it into reports that appear to have been written by high school students.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday May 08 2019, @09:14PM
People don't know this, reports cost money. Even our wonderful High School Students don't work for free -- look at what you're paying Justin. And that money can come from a Company. From a Person. Or, from the government -- Taxpayers. And the Koch Brothers, very generously, funded that one. So nice of them and that one "appeared," very proudly, in the Ottawa Sun. One of the most respected Newspapers in, or of Canada. But you wanted, I guess, something that looks nicer. With Power Point or, possibly more pictures. You have, I assume, you're own money, you can pay for that one. I don't mind. Fraser Institute doesn't mind. And Koch Brothers don't mind. It's known as Freedom of Speech. And possibly your Report Writers will put some Alternative Facts in that one. That are different from what Fraser Institute folks had to say. That's fine. Show us your Report, we are waiting!!!!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:54PM (2 children)
I recall hearing about that topic back when the Clinton* was trying to fix health care. We spend a huge amount of money on administrivia and paperwork. They compared to a socialized system (sorry forgot which one) and the stack of total paperwork was far less.
* not Hillary
Why is it so difficult to break a heroine addiction?
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:56PM (1 child)
You say, "oh, not Hillary." WRONG -- DEAD WRONG. It was Bill. But, Crooked H was in charge of the Task Force on that one. Known as Task Force on National Health Care Reform. You didn't know. And, a lot of folks didn't know. Because they tried to keep it a secret. That Bill put his wife as head of the Task Force. The secret got out and there was a big lawsuit. Can we call it Nepotism? Why not, right? And fortunately, the Plan got out too. Horrible plan where EVERY EMPLOYER would have had to pay the Medical for EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYEE. And, for the married. Tremendous protests and the Secret Service guys must have talked to Crooked. And told her, "ma'am, if this goes through you may not live to see 1995." It's known as assassination, folks. And fortunately we had, at that time, a lot of smart Dems in Congress. Who realized, if that one went through, so many businesses would go under. Or have to fire most of their workers. Millions of folks would be out of work. And the Dems would lose Congress for generations. So, very wisely, they torpedoed it. But, the American "people" remembered that fiasco. They remembered very well. Big reason why Crooked H lost OVERWHELMINGLY in 2016!!!!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:11PM
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't say that!
Hillary's first two terms in office could disqualify her from holding office should she get elected a 2nd time.
Why is it so difficult to break a heroine addiction?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:46AM (2 children)
When Canada went single payer, which included price controls on Dr pay, the Doctors went ape shit, striking and such. Eventually they realized that they actually made more money as billing was so much simpler. Generally, they just bill the government from a set price list. If you show up here at a Dr office, you'll get billed the same amount that the government pays for me ($38 for a basic visit last I checked) though they will take advantage of the exchange rate if you want to pay cash with American money.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:00AM (1 child)
Do you have some references for this, like news articles or the like? This is something I don't hear much about in the US debates on this topic.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:55AM
Hmm, not off hand, but quickly DDGing gives this interesting study, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3110239/ [nih.gov] with some references. Seems the (first?) strike was in Saskatchewan and what made the doctors happy was ease of being paid, no bouncing cheques and such.
Canada is like the States in some ways, a federation of sovereign units, Provinces in our case and single payer was introduced at the Provincial level first and even now, Provinces can opt out and it is run by the feds like your highway system as Constitutionally, the Feds can't force the Provinces to do some things including healthcare so they have to bribe. Canada actually has 14 single payer systems, 10 Provinces, 3 Territories (treated like Provinces generally, but the feds sign off laws instead of the Queen or her representative) and the Feds (veterans, natives and such).
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @07:55PM (5 children)
I said, 5 weeks. But to see a Specialist, the average( 2017 ) was 21.2 weeks!!! That's from Statistics, a type of Math. fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2017 [fraserinstitute.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by sshelton76 on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:39PM (4 children)
Have you tried to see a specialist in the USA?
IF you can get approval from your insurance to see one at all I can promise you it's 6 months out before he can see you unless you have a so called "cadillac" plan like are given to government employees and of course politicians. For the rest of the plebs, seeing a specialist can and frequently does involve traveling to a different country.
The USA has quite literally the most expensive healthcare in the world with the worst outcomes. Even third world countries have this one nailed down. We however can't seem to get our act together, instead choosing profit over lives.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:12PM (1 child)
Our Healthcare, at one time, was the envy of the World. The absolute envy of the entire World. And in many ways, it still is. I'm fortunate to have EXCELLENT Health -- my Doctor says I may live to the age of 200 if I give up Fast Food (a tough one). But if I want to see a Specialist, I take out my Checkbook. And there's never any problem there. I guarantee it.
The Democrats are pushing for Universal HealthCare while thousands of people are marching in the UK because their Universal System is going broke and not working. Dems want to greatly raise taxes for really bad and non-personal medical care. No thanks.
The Insurance, we're working very hard on that one. I was never planning a vote prior to the 2020 Election on the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party. It will be on full display during the Election as a much better & less expensive alternative to ObamaCare. ObamaCare is a disaster, far too expensive and deductibility ridiculously high -- virtually unusable! Moving forward in Courts and Legislatively!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @12:28PM
No-one in Britain is marching against the NHS. They're marching against your corrupt mate Nigel Farage's pet project of Brexshit.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:00PM (1 child)
That's the case for the fully-private specialists, yes... I don't know about other HMOs, but while mine (Kaiser) has a lot of frustrating flaws, I can say that the wait for one of its specialists is rarely more than 4 weeks.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:03AM
Canada, it depends on the Province (healthcare is Provincial with the Feds using bribery to enforce standards like how your highways work) but here, it can be months for something like a hip and days for a heart. Lots of triaging based on need rather then wealth.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:27PM
That's what the GP is talking about. In capitalist US of A, you don't even need an appointment for your kids to get shot!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Webweasel on Wednesday May 08 2019, @10:30AM
UK Here. Everything you get told about the NHS is bullshit.
If I want to see a doctor, I phone the local GP's office at 8am or 12pm. I get an appointment the same day.
Usually the appointment happens a half hour after the schedule, but that's down to old people having nothing to do expect annoy doctors all day.
I had a skin cancer scare recently. Saw the doctor the same day, had an appointment with a skin specialist 2 weeks later. Turned out to be a nasty stubborn patch of eczema.
I have IBS too, it got really bad for a while last year. Saw the doctor, blood taken for a test 2 days later. Blood and stool tested within a week. Had an ultrasound 3 weeks later. Had to give up coffee.
Have had to take my son and daughter to A&E a few times. The triage is really good, if its urgent your seen straight away. I have never waited more than 2 hours in A&E (Just don't go on a Friday night when its full of drunks)
EVERYTHING America is told about the NHS is bullshit.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 3, Funny) by NewNic on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:35PM
Where's Runaway to tell us that George Soros is funding this. Caravans need a lot of organization.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @08:54PM (2 children)
Canadian leader Trompé had this to say about the caravans of Americans invading Canada to leech off the system:
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @02:07AM
Nice! French dictionary:
tromper, (se)
delude, err, go wrong
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:03AM
Well, they're definitely sending their fattest, their best armed, their NASCAR and NFL fans, and the ones with health issues requiring prescription medication. And some, I assume, are good people. (Did I miss anything?)
(Score: 2) by rigrig on Tuesday May 07 2019, @09:37PM
These people wouldn't be able to afford the medicines in the U.S. anyway, so it won't impact profits.
But just to be sure, import restrictions are in the works.
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: 2) by Username on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:30PM (1 child)
Someone is selling drugs for cheaper, and people are buying it from them. Seems like the system is working. All you need to do is scale it up so it has an impact on the drug markets. Get Soros and the rest of the cabal to privately fund transit to Canada for all Americans. Though I doubt they would since it doesn't benefit them, only the poor. If you want to go one step further, abolish the DEA and the concept of drug prescriptions. Sell any drug to whoever wants it. There would be less kickbacks to doctors from
drug cartelspharmaceutical companies since people can just go buy generics online from India. No need to even drive to Canada.(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @12:57AM
Actually, hospitals and private insurance are banding together to fight it on multiple fronts. One front is lobbying for the loosening of import restrictions on drugs that are identical to those sold in the USA. Dont have a link for that one since its really just to benefit hospitals and insurance. The other front is to fight the Pharma Bros who are arbitrarily raising prices on generics by bringing the fight to their doorstep. https://civicarx.org [civicarx.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:33AM (2 children)
Get a plane ticket to Finland in northern Europe. Lose your papers and apply for asylum. No need to go through the process, you can sleep in a hotel if you want to. Being openly an 'illegal' you willget free medical care and pass the queue too! You'll also get free accommodation in a dorm room and some money to spare during the asylum process. It's nuts but this is how it works.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @11:15AM (1 child)
Sold! I'll swing by next Tuesday
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @11:18AM
Wait! I do not have brown skin. No religious suicidal or homicidal tendencies. I believe that humanity is capable of greatness we just need to work together. I have a decent life here. I have no interest in lazing around leaching off a state. Can I still come?