When is a shoe not a shoe? When it contains a spring, apparently, according to commentators who are taking offense at shoes worn by marathon winner Eliud Kipchoge being discussed as being potentially performance enhancing to the point that it gives the wearer an unfair advantage. Many sports have limits on what modifications are acceptable to equipment in a competition to ensure the event is fair for all competitors.
Some people believe that the shoe construction[*] provides a clear mechanical advantage which should be disallowed in competition. With people like Lance Armstrong being caught out, is it any wonder more focus will be on other sports in the future?
[*] Tweet by Darren Rovell:
"When a shoe company puts multiple carbon plates in a shoe with cushion between the plates, it is no longer a shoe. It's a spring and a clear mechanical advantage." — Runner @ryanhall3 on Eliud Kipchoge's unreleased Nikes for his sub 2 marathon.
Picture of the shoe with cross-section from the tweet showing the "Zoom Air Bags" and the "Carbon Fiber Plates".
[Editor's Comment: This was not an attempt at setting a record. It would never be recognised as a record - this was known before he even started running - because he had a vehicle pacing him showing a laser plot on the ground before him indicating where he had to be to get under 2 hours, he used 35 other pacemakres who took it in turns to run sections of the route with him, they acknowledged the controversy over the shoes which were worn by Kipchoge and each of the pacemakers, and there were no other competitors. Any of those things would negate a claim that this was a record. The shoes have not, however, been ruled illegal by the sport's governing body. He did the marathon under 2 hours to show that it was possible, not to claim any record. The whole thing was organised under the banner 'There are no limits' and was intended to spur non-athletes into taking up some form of exercise. Nevertheless, nobody else has run the marathon in under 2 hours, with or without similar shoes, and everyone is eligible to go for the record if they wish to do so.]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Saturday October 19 2019, @06:54PM (5 children)
It's all just product placement.
Wanna make it real? Make 'em run barefoot, and naked... no decals, nothing
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday October 19 2019, @07:08PM (3 children)
That seems harsh. What if the road is hot or they step on a glass fragment? Make them wear these [theverge.com] instead.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday October 19 2019, @08:04PM (2 children)
Reminds me of Muslim Khuffs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masah [wikipedia.org]
aka the best damn slippers money can buy :D
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 19 2019, @11:36PM (1 child)
They think far too much about their religion. Perhaps if they lived life a bit more they would not be so angry.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Sunday October 20 2019, @01:38AM
I don't know man. Even as an atheist I can't help note the absence of religious fervor during WW1, WW2 and really, most wars in the last two centuries. The way I see it, if you generalize the statement above to all dogmatic "ways of life", I can support it. But if you limit it to religions in general or any one religion, I just don't buy it. The thing is, the people wanting to fix or remove those religions aren't exactly straightforward about what they want to put in their place. Communists... Fascists... Capitalists... All those people waving flags are all trying to promote their own opportunistic, self-serving agendas.
And let me tell you, all those other religions and ideologies? No leather slippers.
compiling...
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday October 19 2019, @07:49PM
Ahem...Barefoot Running [exactdn.com] is a thing. I even investigated it myself as a more natural alternative but decided against it until I lose a few pounds, even with nice cushiony running shoes running is a lot of stress on the joints.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Saturday October 19 2019, @07:01PM (1 child)
I read it was 422 , 100m sprints at 17.22s...
Special shoes? Yeah, that really helped....!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 19 2019, @11:12PM
Next... Nike will be putting rocket engines in them.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 19 2019, @07:32PM (10 children)
That zoom air bag is legit shit, the best cushioning/springback gizmo in running shoes. Actually, it was better when they were offered in full-length form (from forefoot to the heel), but they only offer half-length one now in order to leave room for the useless electronic gizmo in the midfoot.
Don't know about the carbon-fire thing. though they are some shoes with plastic plate(s) embedded in the midsole to function as a sort of skeleton - it guides how the midsole compresses and flexes so as to distribute the shock and help the sole to flex back.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 20 2019, @03:41AM (8 children)
I feel anything that doesn't add energy is legit.
The whole idea as I see it is to improve technology for everyone, thanks to economies of scale.
Whether it's better shoes, better bike frames, carbon fiber golf clubs, better balls, whatever.
Now, it's cheating if something else does the work. I don't want to see chainsaws in a wood chopping contest. But I would see a diamond surfaced no-stick cutting surface as fair game, as long as anyone can use it. The idea being if the new tech is better, then it will be available to all.
Ok, if we want to run a retro contest, fine, that's what it is.. let's go benchmark some 8080 sorting algorithms and code. Or baseball and bat has to be wood.
(Score: 3, Touché) by mhajicek on Sunday October 20 2019, @04:07AM
So these should be allowed?
https://www.amazon.com/Kangaroo-Jumping-Fitness-Exercise-Bouncing/dp/B00M3Y8ZFS?psc=1 [amazon.com]
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 20 2019, @06:55AM
Ok let's race, you run, I'll use this bicycle-shaped shoe.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Sunday October 20 2019, @07:04AM (1 child)
I have to agree. As long as all of the energy is as a result of the runner's action then what is the problem with the shoes making it more comfortable or efficient? Remember the outcry when blades were introduced in the paraolympics? Now they are completely acceptable. Going back many decades when the Fosbury Flop was first seen in the men's high jump it was viewed as 'unsportsmanlike' and not entirely a 'gentlemanly' thing to do. Now, every highjumper realises that jumping and twisting simultaneously is a more efficient use of an individual's energy to get the body over the bar.
I suspect that the main complaint is from those who have chosen another sponsor over Nike - and they can see that the Nike shoe is more efficient, or at least they perceive that to be the case. But is is only a perception. When Kipchoge attempted to beat the 2 hour time at Monza in Italy he was just 25 seconds outside the barrier. On his successful attempt he was 19 seconds inside the barrier. So the gain that the shoe might have given him is 44 seconds over 2 hours. But that it ignoring the additional pacemakers and the fact that they ran in a special formation to reduce the drag on Kipchoge himself. It ignores the vehicle providing the laser designated absolute shortest route around the course and providing him with a constant reference point to indicate where he needed to be to be under 2 hours. It ignored that fact that there were no other competitors - no one to get in his way and no tactical running designed to wear other competitors down. It ignores the fact that he was using a new carbohydrate drink which is still in development. In short, that 44 seconds was gained by a mix of factors and not just the shoe alone.
Remember when they said the 4 minute mile couldn't be broken 63 years ago - well Dr Bannister showed the world that everyone was wrong and it was, indeed, possible. Kipchoge has just demonstrated that there is no 2 hour barrier. Now every runner can strive to join that elite club that Kipchoge has founded.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Sunday October 20 2019, @01:59PM
And more importantly, Dr Bannister *calculated* it would be possible and then set about training to prove it.
This current effort is in that regard - the 2 hour limit is arbitrary, but sometimes you have to really focus to prove it....
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday October 20 2019, @08:05AM
I wonder if anything can be done with a battery, moving component(s), and sensors. i.e. an active running shoe enhancement mechanism that does use energy and is worth any extra weight added by the battery, at least until it is drained. I haven't heard of anything like that, just battery-powered features like lights, step tracking (with app integration), or self-lacing.
That might only be worth it if being inconspicuous is a requirement. Since you could instead use passive [soylentnews.org] or active exoleg attachments that can reduce the effort needed to run.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday October 20 2019, @01:50PM (1 child)
A bicycle does not add energy, so I guess many people ran the marathon under 1h already.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 21 2019, @01:46AM
My rollerblades had slightly better ball bearings than my friends. I cur circles around them for years because of it. None of them ever knew. They thought I was just faster than them.
A shoe with a spongy spring in it? Wish I had that for school.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 21 2019, @07:05PM
What about better legs? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/blade-runners-do-high-tech-prostheses-give-runners-an-unfair-advantage/ [scientificamerican.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday October 20 2019, @07:57AM
That sounds neat. I'll have to look into that.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday October 19 2019, @08:35PM (5 children)
So people are upset that an event that was organised as an advertisement based on demonstrating a product used that product?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday October 19 2019, @09:05PM (4 children)
No, they want a definition of permissible running shoes for the upcoming Olympics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday October 19 2019, @10:40PM (3 children)
He had a pace car, a rotating team of pace runners, mobile water, so none of the rules were being followed anyway.
The shoes are custom-made- even that seems to break the rules.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday October 20 2019, @01:50AM
All of them already specified by the Olympiad rules as not allowed.
However, in the same rules, it seems to be a hole in regards with the shoes - and that's what I read the guys seems to point.
Let me repeat the quotes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday October 20 2019, @05:13PM
He had a pace car
Heh, Border Patrol. No wonder he broke the record
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday October 20 2019, @10:42PM
He is also a Kenyan distance runner, so the chances he is not taking drugs are almost zero.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 19 2019, @11:06PM
From bottom of page:
Is SN also ‘running’ site enhancing quote builders?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 20 2019, @02:18AM (2 children)
We need to find out exactly what Pheidippides wore for that very first marathon, then make all marathon runners were exact duplicates of his shoes.
This pic suggests that he ran barefoot - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon#/media/File:Phidippides.jpg [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 20 2019, @05:51AM (1 child)
This is why he only ran once, dying at the finish line?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 20 2019, @06:57AM
I figure the bare feet didn't kill him. It was the bare everything else. Sunburn and wind burn can be hell!
(Score: 1) by buzzy on Sunday October 20 2019, @07:39AM (6 children)
Looking at it from physics point of view: all energy comes from the athlete, the shoes are a passive component. This is in now way similar to mechanical or chemical doping.
To a certain level the same holds for me for Oscar Pistorius, but in this case one can argue on the anatomical differences between athletes.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday October 20 2019, @08:09AM (5 children)
If custom 3D-printed shoes can conform to an individual runner's feet and boost performance by 0.5%, is it cheating to use them? Or be the first to use them?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by buzzy on Sunday October 20 2019, @08:42AM (4 children)
It's obviously not... athletes in all branches have been using tailored equipment for years, being able to find and select the right equipment is part of the competition.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Sunday October 20 2019, @10:03AM (3 children)
Then poor people can't participate and win! Shut it down!
But let's not kid ourselves, modern athleticism WILL DIE as people start using more body and genetic enhancements. It would be unethical for the general population to have enhancements, superior replacement limbs, anti-aging, etc. that can greatly impact health, but ban athletes from using them.
The future of sports will be underground gladiatorial combat, live streamed, with cryptocurrency gambling. Operated out of Malaysia or some such place.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by arslan on Sunday October 20 2019, @10:11PM (1 child)
Isn't the future of sports e-sports? It is already live streamed, with cryptocurrency gambling.. executed by kids in "underground" bunkers called basements.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 21 2019, @05:39AM
We still have the Olympics, NFL, NBA, sprinting and marathons, Tour de France, UFC, etc. Some of those will die and leave a void that can't be filled by button mashing. Only BLOOD SPORTS.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Sunday October 20 2019, @11:29PM
I remember a story about genetic engineering where the Scottish national football* team had a goal keeper the same size and shape as the goal (and still lost 1-0)
*soccer
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex