Pro Publica has released a new report on the CDC's response to the SARS-Cov2 virus. The report provides a fascinating look into the workings of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), tracking the agency from the first hint of the new virus until very recently, as they worked to understand the new virus, respond to the dangers it presented to the US and the world and desperately tried to limit the spread of the virus.
From the report:
At 7:47 a.m. on the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend, Dr. Jay Butler pounded out a grim email to colleagues at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta.
Butler, then the head of the agency's coronavirus response, and his team had been trying to craft guidance to help Americans return safely to worship amid worries that two of its greatest comforts — the chanting of prayers and singing of hymns — could launch a deadly virus into the air with each breath.
The week before, the CDC had published its investigation of an outbreak at an Arkansas church that had resulted in four deaths. The agency's scientific journal recently had detailed a superspreader event in which 52 of the 61 singers at a 2½-hour choir practice developed COVID-19. Two died.
Butler, an infectious disease specialist with more than three decades of experience, seemed the ideal person to lead the effort. Trained as one of the CDC's elite disease detectives, he'd helped the FBI investigate the anthrax attacks, and he'd led the distribution of vaccines during the H1N1 flu pandemic when demand far outstripped supply.
But days earlier, Butler and his team had suddenly found themselves on President Donald Trump’s front burner when the president began publicly agitating for churches to reopen. That Thursday, Trump had announced that the CDC would release safety guidelines for them “very soon.” He accused Democratic governors of disrespecting churches, and deemed houses of worship “essential services.”
Butler’s team rushed to finalize the guidance for churches, synagogues and mosques that Trump’s aides had shelved in April after battling the CDC over the language. In reviewing a raft of last-minute edits from the White House, Butler’s team rejected those that conflicted with CDC research, including a worrisome suggestion to delete a line that urged congregations to “consider suspending or at least decreasing” the use of choirs.
On Friday, Trump’s aides called the CDC repeatedly about the guidance, according to emails. “Why is it not up?” they demanded until it was posted on the CDC website that afternoon.
The next day, a furious call came from the office of the vice president: The White House suggestions were not optional. The CDC’s failure to use them was insubordinate, according to emails at the time.
Fifteen minutes later, one of Butler’s deputies had the agency’s text replaced with the White House version, the emails show. The danger of singing wasn’t mentioned.
Early that Sunday morning, as Americans across the country prepared excitedly to return to houses of worship, Butler, a churchgoer himself, poured his anguish and anger into an email to a few colleagues.
"I am very troubled on this Sunday morning that there will be people who will get sick and perhaps die because of what we were forced to do," he wrote.
When the next history of the CDC is written, 2020 will emerge as perhaps the darkest chapter in its 74 years, rivaled only by its involvement in the infamous Tuskegee experiment, in which federal doctors withheld medicine from poor Black men with syphilis, then tracked their descent into blindness, insanity and death.
[...] Dr. Anne Schuchat, the CDC's top career scientist, was one of the first to notice a brief report about four cases of "unexplained pneumonia" in Wuhan, China, in an emerging diseases bulletin. It followed a warning about a "red blotch disease" in the grape industry.
[...] At 8:25 a.m. on Dec. 31, Schuchat emailed Butler and other colleagues asking if "any of your folks know more about the 'unknown pneumonia'" in Wuhan.
Emails and calls bounced among the agency's leaders, a handful of veterans with more than a century of experience among them. Dr. Dan Jernigan, the flu chief, and his boss, Dr. Nancy Messonnier, met at headquarters to plan. Within hours, they learned there were 27 cases — seven of them severe — with fever, difficulty breathing and a buildup of abnormal substances in the lungs. All the cases were believed to be connected to an outdoor seafood market. "Raises concern about SARS," Messonnier wrote in an email.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday October 18 2020, @12:29AM (19 children)
See topic. This is another manifestation of Grover may-he-rot-in-Hell Norquist's "drown the government in the bathtub" horseshit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @12:39AM
> "We are quite in danger of sending highly trained and highly intelligent young men out into the world with tables of erroneous numbers under their arms, and with a dense fog in the place where their brains ought to be. In this century, of course, they will be working on guided missiles and advising the medical profession on the control of disease, and there is no limit to the extent to which they could impede every sort of national effort."
Fisher, R N (1958). "The Nature of Probability". Centennial Review. 2: 261–274."
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:49AM (2 children)
Fall is the effect, push is the cause.
If you want to be pedantic, you can say "CDC was pushed and shoved and shot at and poisoned until falling", but bottom line is "CDC fell".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Informative) by fustakrakich on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:43AM (1 child)
It was squished [youtu.be]...
It happened so quickly!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:48PM
Well something had to give to make funding available for Space Force.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:29AM (11 children)
The CDC is full of SJW nutjobs who think racism is a public health crisis [nationalreview.com] - not the infectious disease or underlying health conditions but some measure of ill-defined bigotry!
The CDC is also full of gilead minions [nationalfile.com] who, by way of bullshit clinical trials promoted the non-working Remdesivir over vitamin D, zinc [medicalxpress.com] and ionospheres like quercetin and hydroxychloroquine.
This is the same CDC that thinks zombies are a joke [cdc.gov] but they probably never visited Democrat run SF where drug addled mental people harass people in broad daylight.
If the CDC was "PUSHED", it pushed itself!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:41AM
s/ionosphere/ionophore
I can't even blame predictive text but fuck the CDC all the same!
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:53AM (7 children)
Found the gilead minion! Everybody knows that garlic, vitamin C and hyperbaric oxygen chambers are the cure! Drink at least 2 glasses of vegetable juice per day, and make sure to incorporate other good sources of vitamin C like oranges in your diet, and get a garlic press! How can you librul heathens live without a garlic press at home!
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:02AM (3 children)
I love how many idiots here can't comprehend the idea of correcting a vitamin deficiency with vitamins. And they apparently think they are smart for it or something too.
There's some serious brainwashing that went into that belief. Like what do they do when the car is low on oil, or even just washer fluid?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:23AM
The only rational thing to do in such an event: Invoke Cthulhu.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:44AM (1 child)
Yeah these librul cukes are so stupid. Instead of eating Doritos when they get the munchies, they could eat a few fresh broccoli florets with dip. Check it out: 78 mg vitamin C per 85g serving [usda.gov]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:52AM
Why not look at the pharmacokinetics of vitamin C in sick people, then calculate how much broccoli you would need to eat and the cost, etc?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:58AM (1 child)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0078EZQE6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 [amazon.com]
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:36PM
A garlic press reduces the effectiveness against Republicans.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 20 2020, @01:10AM
(Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday October 18 2020, @07:48AM
I honestly had no idea CDC purism was a thing.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:05AM
Yeah but if a homeless man dumps a bucket of diarrhea on you, you don't become homeless or a zombie.
(Score: -1, Troll) by hemocyanin on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:19AM (1 child)
It both self-failed and was pushed to fail if we are being fair.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:55AM
1. "fall" not "fail" - it didn't stand a chance to attempt something and fail at it
2. any large organization has bureaucracy and "inside politics" type of games. In small amounts is benefic to be so - a large organization gets large because it needs to tackle complex problems. With complex problems comes a multitude of PoVs and (possible divergent) approaches that absolutely need reconciled before jumping into action. It only becomes noxious when the reconciliation process becomes a purpose in itself (and political/power/vanity/sociopathy games start).
In regards with point 2 - do you have evidence that CDC was past the point in which bureaucracy becomes toxic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:09AM
For anyone looking for an integrated conspiracy theory, here's one that a friend just linked:
https://www.davidbookbinder.com/theartofbalance/2020/09/21/pandemicide-full-text/ [davidbookbinder.com]
Try on pandemicide and see if it fits for you--the author posits a well planned conspiracy to take advantage of a pandemic to selectively remove large numbers of non-whites from the US population (with some collateral damage in the elderly).
Pushing the CDC over was but one domino in the chain.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @12:31AM (1 child)
First you killed my great-grandpa with syphilis, then you killed my grandpa with COVID, then you made my father sing in a church choir.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:17AM
This is what these sick fucks are doing to grandmas: https://i.redd.it/qdum6n7vept51.jpg [i.redd.it]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:02AM (20 children)
These were the actual stances taken by the WHO:
There's no evidence of a novel disease outbreak in China.
Ok, so there's a novel disease outbreak in China, but there's no evidence of human-to-human transmission, no need to restrict travel.
Ok, so there's human-to-human transmission. but there's no evidence of asymptomatic spread, no need for mandatory quarantines on travelers.
Ok, so there's asymptomatic spread, but there's no evidence that face coverings help. Please don't wear one.
Ok, so face coverings DO prevent the spread, but that's because of droplet transmission, there's no evidence of aerosol transmission.
Ok, so the virus can spread via aerosols... but at least there's no evidence that a person can be reinfected.
Ok, so it turns out people CAN be reinfected... Uhm... I think we need more funding or something.
Wouldn't it be smarter to treat NEW pathogens as if they're ebola and then ease up on containment, rather than treating new pathogens like they're something trivial and only start to take it seriously when it spreads like wildfire and bodies start piling up? Why did this happen? Any middle-schooler who played Plague Inc or Pandemic 2 would be able to tell you that the FIRST thing you do is ban entry from countries with reported cases (or instate mandatory quarantines for arrivals).
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:39AM
They trot out the "no evidence" line about all the most obvious stuff. Like "no evidence antibodies make you immune" (except the millions of papers on that topic I guess?).
Then they recommend the most expensive and dangerous intervention of "do not delay intubation" "keep spO2 above 94%" based on no evidence at all.
Totally worthless organization, worse than worthless.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by khallow on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:17AM (11 children)
Of course not. You can figure this out merely by applying the precautionary principle to itself. Nobody has ever shown that such a pathological take on risk is safer than a sane risk approach.
And what would this hypothetical disease be? You wouldn't happen to be the vitamin C guy?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:22AM (10 children)
FTFY
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:59AM (9 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:13AM (1 child)
Too late is when you get vaxxed and Google is tracking your every move:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-captain-of-operation-warp-speed-11602278486 [wsj.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:31AM
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:00AM (6 children)
224k+ [worldometers.info] and counting, that's too late for them.
What level would you consider too late, you fucking sociopathic cunt?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:25AM (3 children)
Right because if everyone huddled in their homes eating their pantries empty we'd all prosper and nobody would starve. Or are you in the group whose job is so exportable you can do it from home and have the proles deliver your food?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:36AM (2 children)
Right, because it's only one way xor the other [wikipedia.org]. There can be no other solutions to deal with the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Touché) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday October 18 2020, @11:13PM (1 child)
I had a nice time at the rugby on Sunday, thanks. [stuff.co.nz]
I'm pretty sure I'll get a reply from our flat-earth A/C telling me how it didn't happen, and we've sold out to the Chinese, and anyway we're all dead over here.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday October 19 2020, @12:38AM
Thinking, forward thinking in particular, is so overrated (large grin)
---
Thanks for the news, All Black trashing Wallabies is spelling "normalcy" so much.
In Melbourne, we're still locked-down (15 mystery cases - just waiting to spring back in summer), but a sligthly relaxed one [abc.net.au]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 18 2020, @12:19PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @07:13PM
You khallow too much, worry!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:45AM (2 children)
the reaction every single time: "NOW they are telling The Truth!!!" Yeah sure they do. *facepalm*
How can literate people be so stupid as to fail to understand that confirmed liars ARE NOT to be believed again?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @07:22AM (1 child)
Oh, but we do understand [wikipedia.org].
Question is: can you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 19 2020, @01:06AM
You mean, you still believe WORDS of POLITICIANS??? *gasp* *rofl*
The ONLY thing with a meaning is what they DO. What they SAY is never ever intended to BE information.
Political speech exists to sway the impressionable and the unthinking, and the list of lies you and your bosses spew is rather more impressive, isn't it? We all understand that
suckerhonest opponent is a dream of any liar, but sometimes dreams do not come true.(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:36AM (1 child)
I know that anything above fourth-grade reading levels is difficult for you, but why don't you try reading TFA?
They've got timelines and *first party* interviews about just about everything you put into your screed, except TFA includes details, nuance and, you know, facts (don't worry, you can ignore those if you want).
Who knows? You might learn something. I won't hold my breath.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 20 2020, @01:40AM
LOL is this an actual reply or a soylentnews meme?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:04AM (1 child)
TFA claims that the CDC flipped through these because of political pressure, instead of being independent.
So yeah they fucked up, but when a regiment attacks the wrong village, normally one interrogates generals, not sergeants.
What's needed is super clear to outsiders: the CDC needs to not have any levers that political entities can pull, so they can act based on best data and not based on political will.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Tuesday October 20 2020, @01:52PM
That will not work because the CDC by definition is a political entity, embedded in a sea of political entities. You're not even speaking of a solution much less an achievable solution. But maybe your unicorns work better than American unicorns, amirite?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:05AM (19 children)
No professional pride, no backbone. Shoulda at least put up a fight.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:16AM (5 children)
The FBI Murdered Bruce Ivins to cover for thier own attack against the government.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:51AM (4 children)
Quack!
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:56AM (3 children)
Qook Qook
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:04AM (2 children)
Your english is improving.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:11AM (1 child)
Qooq
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:44AM
Good. Now try pronouncing Kamala.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by richtopia on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:53AM (6 children)
While the CDC employees could have done more, it appears there was sufficient support within the CDC for the Trump administration to keep the gears turning even if people weren't happy. From the article:
One of the takeaways from the ongoing pandemic is that certain government agencies should ultimately be removed from politics. I would use the Fed as an example: yes the chairman is appointed by the President but the Federal Reserve is an independent agency by design. Perhaps a similar design should be applied to other organizations like the CDC.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:59AM
You think the fed has been successful and is independent of politics? Do you have any idea what's going on around you?
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:55AM
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 0, Redundant) by hemocyanin on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:23AM (1 child)
Does science follow ideology, or does ideology follow science.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:10AM
Or neither.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:33AM
If you want an organization to be independent, then don't make it a government agency, much less a government agency where the president is appointing leadership.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:09AM
FTFY
Constraints will always exist, we're not at the technological level of replication and teleportation and infinite resources. Any professional worth her/his salt will need to do the best they can in given circumstances. But if one puts political considerations on top of the circumstances of the actual problem, you can get to a point in which a country with 5% of the world population counts 30% of the pandemic deaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:54AM (5 children)
They did, RTFA.
Yes, they stopped short of launching an armed insurrection and executing Trump administration in the name of public health, is that what you expected them to do to not be disappointed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:03AM (4 children)
They still haven't figured out to give vitamins for vitamin deficiency. I don't want these people deciding anything.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:57AM (3 children)
Those heathens should drink at least 2 glasses of vegetable juice per day before trying anything else!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:05AM (2 children)
No one mentioned vegetable juice?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:13AM (1 child)
And why not? Vegetable juice is packed with vitamins!!1one! The murderers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:10AM
The reason is math. You aren't going to be eating/juicing lbs of vegetables every six hrs to approach the needs of sick people.
(Score: 2, Informative) by SomeGuy on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:17AM (3 children)
That guidance: There is no such thing as god. Put a cork in it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:34AM (1 child)
A certain type of person is going to believe in some fake authority no matter what. Better if it's an invisible man in the sky than actual corrupt guy with weapons and an army in the government.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:01AM
Do not worry. We have the best of both worlds with Christian fascism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:38AM
Sure. But I prefer the roughly equivalent:
"Your god cannot help you now! MWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!"
(Score: 2) by Kymation on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:27AM (2 children)
If Butler was all that worried about killing or injuring people, why didn't he refuse to make the changes? If he's that weak-willed, he doesn't belong in any position of authority.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:48AM
If you aren't willing to discount your morals you'll get filtered out of medical research very early. I'm sure some government position is even worse.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by choose another one on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:03AM
Maybe he did refuse, TFA says "one of his deputies" put the changes up.
Now, to me, when outside or overhead goes around you and starts directing your team to go against you, it's resignation time, but then again that's maybe why I don't have a job in charge of a team (anymore)...
There's also a good chance you'll then get pilloried and blamed for "walking off the job" (the job you weren't allowed to do) when most needed.
I'd have walked though, and made the reasons very public (which is probably again why no one gives me those sort of jobs...)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:54AM (8 children)
It's kinda cool how everyone pretends that the CDC is some kind of nonpartisan scientific community or something. Everyone stands in awe, awaiting the latest Edict From On High.
The CDC "fell" several decades ago - scroll up for the earlier reference to Tuskegee.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:23AM (7 children)
America fell 200+ years ago, slavery and whatnot. This makes you a racist, Runaway.
Hey, I only follow your own line of argumentation, if that is sound then my conclusion is sound too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:08AM (6 children)
No, but it sounds like you have that critical race theory down pretty well.
As for the CDC, they were onboard with the whole SJW thing before SJW became an accepted term. See their research on "gun deaths". The CDC helped to spread that concept that if we didn't have guns, no one would ever be murdered. They also help to spread the concept of "assault" weapons being a major cause of death. More people are killed with blunt instruments every year, than are killed with rifles of all types, but CDC studies help to fuel the idea that assault rifles have filled more cemeteries than pneumonia, flue, ebola, colds, mumps, measles, dysentery, malaria, and old age combined.
You can well imagine that I have no sympathy for the CDC after it has actively been pushing left/prog/dem/socialist ideas for decades.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:28AM (3 children)
I see that you didn't address the fallacy of "once a X, always a X, you and all your descendants"
Well, fuck off, mate. Shoot down everyone that can help you because it doesn't fit your ethos, that will do you good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 18 2020, @07:33AM (2 children)
Huh. A backhanded compliment? You recognize that I have an ethos, as opposed to the dem/left/progressive narrative. Thanks, Buddy!
(Score: 2, Touché) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @07:48AM
LOL. May your delusions get you a good sleep, that's the best you can hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:26AM
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/characters/nm0000422 [imdb.com]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:23AM (1 child)
Your a racist, Runaway!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @12:16PM
Tru dat. The argument may be wrong, but the conclusion stands true by itself.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @01:57AM (1 child)
The rise of the Fourth Reich, starring Fuhrer Fauci.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @02:50PM
Heil Drumpf!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Username on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:50AM (7 children)
"because of what we were forced to do" So forcing others to do something is ok, but forcing you to do something isn't?
This is how the guidelines should have read: "Going to church is your god given right. We, the government, should not make it illegal for you to go, but we would like you to wear masks while you sing and be at least three feet apart like the WHO suggests at this time. Please check back tomorrow for any updated suggestions."
I don't understand the need to be authoritative and controlling. Just be suggestive. Especially when you don't know WTF you're talking about since the science behind the virus changes by the minute and everything you say is outdated.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:43AM (2 children)
You don't understand pandemics then. For this, you're gonna suffer, probably unnecessary.
The basic of it: it's an infectious agent. If you don't make contact with it, you ain't gonna be infected.
This didn't change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @09:24AM (1 child)
So just because you are scared of a cold you want the government to torture grandmas: https://i.redd.it/qdum6n7vept51.jpg [i.redd.it]
People are nursing homes are killing themselves because of you. There is no point in living for most people locked up in a room unable to see your friends and family.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by c0lo on Sunday October 18 2020, @10:31AM
On the contrary, I want everyone closed in the jail except the grandmas who should be free to roam. (grin)
Because those are the only possible solutions, right?
Sorry, no. They are killing themselves because you refuse to isolate and wear a mask.
Ye see where yah "muh libhurties" leads to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by hemocyanin on Sunday October 18 2020, @06:46AM (2 children)
I'm an atheist so I don't have any personal interest in churches, but I am able to see that if the government can ban something so clearly written into the bill of rights, things I care about are definitely at risk. So for example, an outside prayer meeting scheduled outside in a park found the local government simply close the park:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/jason-rantz-seattle-blocks-worship-in-park [foxnews.com]
This was in Seattle, where you can engage in secessionist activity (and kill people with impunity as well as forbid a free press inside your new borders), inject meth downtown and shoplift to your heart's content, pitch a tent anywhere you want, march through the streets burning, looting, and generally being assholes, but also where it is apparently a crime for religious people to meet out of doors in a park peacefully. It's not a pretty situation -- anyone who has concerns about arbitrarily authoritarian government action (let's call that fascism) should be deeply concerned whether religious or not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @04:59PM (1 child)
Where were the defenders of the Constitution when GW Bush revoked the 4th Amendment? :sadface:
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Monday October 19 2020, @12:35AM
The 4th has been ailing since the 70s (Smith v. Maryland and the third party doctrine), though it is fair to say that GWB and Obama definitely have done their utmost best to kill it. I've taught as many people as I can how to use GPG but it's a hard sell. I also refused to vote for either of those assholes. Beyond that, what specifically should I do?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @03:49PM
The problem is that people who are dumb enough to believe in magic sky beings are also dumb enough to not follow such guidelines. It was simpler just to ban church gatherings along with any other unnecessary large gatherings. Keep in mind that now that people are generally used to wearing masks, social distancing, keeping things sanitary, and that masks are now very readily available, gatherings are now a bit less of a problem than when this pandemic started.
Please tell me you are at least not one of those people who believes masks make you invulnerable. They reduce the probability of spread - but staying home, far away from other people, reduces that probability much more.
People do have to go out sometimes. Going to work to earn money is a necessity. Going to Walmart to buy food is a necessity. Going to a church to worship an imaginary sky being is not a necessity. Even if there were a "god", it should be understanding of the situation. A god that demands you worship its ass over putting your fellow man at risk, is not a god that should be worshiped.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @12:35PM (2 children)
The CDC can't work when politics override the science.
Politics is the only way to decide something that covers so many things besides medical.
An early sign of problems was when the CDC got tasked for the 'emidemic' of gun violence.
Then the announcement that masks don't matter so save them for medical staff. (An insult to the intelligence of the Americal people and the start of making masks a political statement instead of something to improve odds.)
The church thing showed that enthusiastic mouth breathing is especially effective at transtering the virus in a way that causes especially serious cases. (Bypass the protective nasal cavities and head straight for the lungs?) The CDC and Whitehouse were not smart enough to come up with an acceptable alternative and church must go on. Fortunately, churches have more sense and have found ways to continue.
What has me puzzeled is that the repubs are somewhat older, wear few masks as a badge of honor, and vote in the polling place. How can you win a marginal election if you tactics to get elected got a percentage of your voters too sick to get to the poles? Of if you need a Senate vote for Scotus and Potus got some of them out of action as well? Definitely a shot to the foot sort of action.
The CDC has good folks, but to get good results, you have to find a way to shield them from politics. That shielding is missing or worse. Science could publish their best, evolving acessment then guidelines can come from the Whitehouse with politics included. But the acessment should always be published. If it contradicts the political choice, then that's fine. The citizens deserve to see both and choose for themselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @05:03PM (1 child)
> ...too sick to get to the poles...
nsfwyoutube.com/watch?v=eTlv2gfrINM
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 18 2020, @07:21PM