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posted by mrpg on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:00AM   Printer-friendly
from the they're-not-asking-anymore dept.

The headline at WFAA reads: 'Woke up sweating': Some Texans shocked to find their smart thermostats were raised remotely

When Deer Park resident Brandon English got home from work on Wednesday, his house was hot.

[...] His wife received an alert on her phone soon after that. The family said their thermostat had been changed remotely, raising the temperature of their home during a three-hour “energy saving event.”

The family’s smart thermostat was installed a few years ago as part of a new home security package. Many smart thermostats can be enrolled in a program called "Smart Savers Texas." It's operated by a company called EnergyHub.

The agreement states that in exchange for an entry into sweepstakes, electric customers allow them to control their thermostats during periods of high energy demand. EnergyHub’s list of its clients include TXU Energy, CenterPoint and ERCOT.

Previously:
'Unplanned' Outages Hit Texas Power Plants in Soaring Temperatures


Original Submission

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'Unplanned' Outages Hit Texas Power Plants in Soaring Temperatures 105 comments

'Unplanned' outages hit Texas power plants in soaring temperatures

Officials with Texas' power grid operator pleaded with residents Monday to limit their electrical usage amid soaring temperatures and a series of mechanical problems at power plants.

The appeal, from the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT, comes four months after deadly blackouts during a winter storm left millions of people without power — and weeks after state legislators passed a package of measures aimed at fixing some of the problems exposed by the storm.

Officials with the nonprofit group, which oversees 90 percent of Texas' energy production, asked residents to set their thermostats higher, turn off lights and avoid using larger appliances until Friday.

A spokeswoman for the group told reporters that the outages accounted for more than 12,000 megawatts, enough to power 2.4 million homes. Some areas of the state, including Dallas and Tarrant counties, were warned about poor air quality and potentially dangerous heat, with the heat index approaching 110 degrees.

A senior official with ERCOT, Warren Lasher, said it wasn't clear why there were so many unplanned outages. But he said that the group is "deeply concerned" about the plants that are offline and that a thorough investigation is being conducted to better understand the problems.


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:21AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:21AM (#1147419)

    I have no sympathy for those who have deliberately chosen to move to Texas and continue to live there.

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:16AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:16AM (#1147442)

      Waaaaaaah it's hot and the corporations fuck me raw. Waaaaaaaah.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:53AM (1 child)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:53AM (#1147453)

      I have no sympathy for people who buy smart thermostats, agree to relinquish control of it to some corporation in return for being entered into a stupid sweepstake, and then turn around and complain that someone is violating the sanctity of their home.

      I might have some sympathy for buyers of smart products who don't know what IOT products really are, but certainly none for those who deliberately let a company remote-control their stuff, because that entails they fully understand what it is.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:51PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:51PM (#1147490)

        Quite, but TFS says only the sweepstakes exist, not that this family signed up. They got their smart thermostat as part of an alarm package.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday June 21 2021, @02:03PM

      by DannyB (5839) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:03PM (#1147659) Journal

      I have no sympathy for those who have deliberately chosen to move to Texas and continue to live there.

      Some people might have various reasons or job pressures to move there reluctantly against their better judgement. After all, how bad could it really be? (they ask themselves)

      Texas got all of the energy independence and deregulation that it wanted. It is profitable for the energy companies. Yet they would like other states to pay for it. And the population seems to go along with the mantras of deregulation, pro-business and energy independence (from other states, not countries).

      Hey, I'm all for being pro-business, but not letting capitalism run amok. How did that Enron thing work out?

      --
      NSA does only TARGETED surveillance. It's just that they target everyone.
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Snotnose on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:26AM (48 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:26AM (#1147420)

    In Feb we learned they let their energy company have direct, immediate access to their bank accounts. Now we find out they let their energy company remotely control their thermostats? Stupid stupid stupid.

    That said, the guy who said "it was 78 degrees. My baby could have died". Oh shut the fuck up, snowflake. 78 is nothing.

    --
    I hate it when I see an old person, then realize we went to high school together.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:55AM (7 children)

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:55AM (#1147426) Journal

      If he had expected the temperature to be more like 68, then he likely will have dressed the baby for that temperature and/or put blankets appropriate for that temperature on it. And then the higher temperature may indeed be life threatening to the baby.

      Note that if you are prepared for 78 but get cooled down to 68, it's just as bad. It's not just the absolute temperature that matters, it is approximate predictability.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:03AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:03AM (#1147429)

        Don't invite this guy to your party.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:08AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:08AM (#1147430)
        so whythe guy left the baby alone at home? Or more likely he brought it home from the daycare and was too fat and lazy and intimidated by the prospect of having to change the kid because " not my job."

        Either way , a moron looking for a reason to bitch and moan:

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:07AM

        by sjames (2882) on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:07AM (#1147440) Journal

        Unless he left the baby home alone, surely any responsible adult could re-dress the baby appropriately. And if he DID leave the baby home alone, that's a whole other level of irresponsible. I would say the snowflake point stands.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:17AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:17AM (#1147443)

        It got so warm my nipples almost went soft. Almost. I used ice cubes.

      • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:24AM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:24AM (#1147445) Homepage Journal

        An attentive parent is going to undress and dress Baby multiple times throughout the day. There are multiple opportunities to add a layer for warmth, or remove a layer to cool the little monster. If the child were to die of heat or cold because the parents didn't dress the kid appropriately, then the parents can be charged with neglect.

        I raised three sons in the Arklatex. This guy gets only a hint of empathy from me, and no sympathy. It's time he grew up and stopped acting like a baby. Being adult takes a bit of effort. If he doesn't adult well, maybe he should move back to whatever nanny state he came from.

        --
        Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
      • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:56AM

        by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:56AM (#1147454)

        It's true: they might have set the thermostat at 40 degrees and dressed the baby for winter, then the energy company set it at 78 degrees unbeknown to them and killed the infant child. Oh the humanity!

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:59PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:59PM (#1147551)

        If he had expected the temperature to be more like 68, then he likely will have dressed the baby for that temperature and/or put blankets appropriate for that temperature on it. And then the higher temperature may indeed be life threatening to the baby.

        Holy fuck -- for a demon who is supposed to understand thermodynamics, this post really shows some silliness.

        If your baby will die (implied by your "life-threatening" wording) due to a temperature differential of 10 degrees, either something is really wrong with the baby medically, or you must have really dressed the baby inappropriately in the first place (like winter clothes causing baby to sweat like crazy at 68, which causes dehydration and hyperthermia at 78).

        Babies who aren't exerting themselves don't DIE from temperatures like 78 degrees unless something is really wrong. Granted, if the AC system was completely off for a long time leading to an unanticipated increase in humidity, it could become more uncomfortable for a baby (or any human). But uncomfortable for a couple hours doesn't equal death. And anyone who has had any baby will know that it will begin crying if uncomfortable. If you're a parent that ignores a crying baby for hours on end... well, that's also not the AC system's fault.

        (Note: I'm not a fan of this heavy-handed approach to controlling home devices unless people have really made vocal and clearly understood consent, but that doesn't make your comment any more reasonable.)

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:15AM (16 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:15AM (#1147432)

      direct, immediate access to their bank accounts

      That's called 'direct debit' or 'automatic billing' and it exists everywhere electronic banking does. Most utilities try to get people to sign up for it. Some companies outright demand it. Hardly unique to Texas.

      they let their energy company remotely control their thermostats

      This type of energy saving program has been around for decades and IIRC started in California as a way to mitigate their rolling blackouts.

      What rock do you live under that you've never heard of these things?

      • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:27AM (13 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:27AM (#1147433)

        I have never dealt with a company that demanded direct debit as the only form of payment. If I did, I would set up an account at a 2nd institution where I don't ordinarily bank, just for that, and fund it minimally. Better to have your power cut off than to have some stupid company bill you your entire checking balance, then have your bank's overdraft protection kick in and fold your savings account like a house of cards. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and once they possess your money the bill becomes that much harder to dispute.

        As it stands, I pay the power company with cash because there's no fee. At least, that's what I did up until the pandemic. The past year I've used a credit card and eaten the transaction fees to avoid unnecessary contact. That stops this month, Yay!

        This goes for anybody. NO YOU MAY NOT DEBIT MY ACCOUNT AUTOMATICALLY. EVER. It pains me to think that companies have the gall to even request it, and saddens me to think that people grant the request.

        • (Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:27AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:27AM (#1147446)

          > NO YOU MAY NOT DEBIT MY ACCOUNT AUTOMATICALLY. EVER.

          If you owe taxes (in USA), you might be surprised to find that the IRS has taken what they think you owe. Straight out of your bank account, happens all the time. Yes, there is a dispute mechanism, but in the meantime the IRS has what they believe you owed.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:04PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:04PM (#1147522)

            That's what you get for funding the IRS. Only cowards, idiots and sell outs pay the federal income tax. The federal government is occupied by the enemy: the International Jew. Your America does not currently exist.

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:00AM

          by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:00AM (#1147455)

          Better to have your power cut off than to have some stupid company bill you your entire checking balance, then have your bank's overdraft protection kick in and fold your savings account like a house of cards.

          This.

          It's happened to me in the 90's: the phone company grossly overcharged me and sent my account in the red. I only learned about it because my bank called me. I was lucky that they charged so much that I could prove even if I had called a number in the most expensive country at the most expensive hour of the day 24/7 for an entire month, it wouldn't have come close to what they had charge me. So they reversed the charge. But I can tell you, since that incident, I have never setup another direct debit. Fool me once...

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Sunday June 20 2021, @03:36PM (5 children)

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Sunday June 20 2021, @03:36PM (#1147509) Journal

          I really don't see as practical the defense of your bank account by refusing to use all forms of automatic payment. I used to feel the same way. Don't trust merchants, utilities, or anyone else to be careful with my money. Still don't, but now, when they mess up, I rely on other defense mechanisms. Yes, it is a pain and a waste of time (and time is money) to have to call to get a mistake fixed. But it does work. Another avenue is pushing the bank to ease up on the punitive fees, and one of the ways to do that is Move Your Money. Don't bank at the bigs, their customer service and fee structures are always, always worse than the smalls. If you have an account with Bank of America or Chase, I really have to ask, why? Same goes for the next 2 biggest, Wells Fargo and Citibank.

          There was a case some years ago, in Texas no less, in which the gas utility royally messed up, shifted the decimal point, and ended up billing everyone 10x what they owed. Yep, drained a bunch of people's bank accounts, and caused a whole cascade of those penalty fees that banks so love to assess, as that is one of their top sources of profit. The gas company made good on their error. Not only refunded the excess they took, but also reimbursed everyone for all the penalty fees their mistake caused.

          Just this month, the credit union messed up the automatic payment I'd set up at the end of last month. The water utility hit me with a $25 penalty fee for a refused (or returned?) check. It was the credit union's error that caused it, they've admitted it, and they're paying for the mistake. I mention it in my journal.

          So, yes, I believe that automatic payment is mature enough, with enough customs in place for all kinds of situations, that you'll have redress. It's when a system is new that the greedy exploit errors to take your money. When Texas pushed to have lots more toll roads, with then new systems for automatic scanning of license plates, replacing the old method of having people in toll booths to collect tolls, there were problems. The penalty system just assumed, all too conveniently, that errors were motorists trying to cheat somehow. You might get a notice that you owed a toll too late to avoid the penalty. Yeah, $30 penalty for not paying a $0.25 toll within 30 days. Another huge screw was for those who rented a car. By the time the rental agency got the bill, and passed it on to you, it was too late to avoid penalties, and the rental company would simply pass that on too, with additional penalties of their own. That was a decade ago, and in the face of public outrage over the unfairness of it, toll collection had to change.

          In the late 1990s, I had a bad experience with the then immature system of e-commerce. At that time, it was not yet a custom for merchants to refrain from charging your credit card until the product had shipped. The moment you ordered, they charged. I ordered a computer system, and 3 weeks after charging my credit card, they still hadn't shipped it. So I cancelled the order. Then I had a long fight to get my money back. I called and called to get my money back. The MBNA credit card customer service flunkies kept giving me crap about how I needed to "work things out" with the merchant. The merchant kept promising to refund my money, but didn't. Finally, I reached a different department at MBNA, and spoke with a "billing dispute specialist" who fixed the problem in about 5 seconds. (So why didn't the customer service people send me there a lot sooner? Jerks.) There are of course still angles that the unscrupulous merchants can work, but that hole is, I believe, pretty much plugged. One word to the credit card issuer from me, and the merchant who is attempting to cheat me gets burned. $75 penalty. I am very restrained in my use of that. So far, the only other entity who suffered that was an ISP who refused to acknowledge that I'd cancelled them, and were trying to collect another monthly payment.

          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:11PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:11PM (#1147552)

            Yes, it is a pain and a waste of time (and time is money) to have to call to get a mistake fixed. But it does work.

            Says someone who apparently has never dealt with completely horrible customer service, as is common at many big corporations these days.

            I'm not talking about having to request a supervisor or having to call a few additional numbers. I'm talking about having to send state or federal regulatory agencies after a company due to non-response and non-compliance with promises, and threatening (or even filing) lawsuits. I'm talking about stuff that takes many months or a year to resolve.

            And the cascading failures in today's financial system can also cause all sorts of horrific badness if you need to correct errors in a chain. Try to get a representative from a major credit bureau on the phone sometime. Some of them work, but others you will try in vain to talk to an actual person if you're a consumer. Why is this bad? Because account problems (like overcharges, missed payments due to them, etc.) can lead to marks on a credit report. A bad credit report can ruin your life for quite a while, given home much employers and landlords and everyone else is checking it these days. And getting the credit bureau to fix these things AFTER you convince the bank to do so AFTER you get the company that originally charged you... well, given my personal experiences with a number of large companies over the years that I had to fight through state and federal regulatory bodies and the BBB and other groups just to get my money back... well, good luck to you. Sounds like you've been lucky so far. I hope it holds.

            Not that one can't take some risks online, but the stance that, "Oh, it will just take a few minutes to fix this... it's annoying but it works..." That's hopelessly naive in today's world of deliberately obtuse "customer service." (I'm not even going to get into the time I had to fight a private corporation acting on behalf of a state that tried to fine me hundreds of dollars for their mistake... that's a whole extra level of insanity that almost required litigation of intervention of a senator to settle. And all of these things were petty little crap things I encountered doing everyday normal stuff, like dealing with utility companies.)

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @11:10PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @11:10PM (#1147563)

              But at least it's not China's social credit system.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:19AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:19AM (#1147612)

                In some ways that dystopian nightmare is more honest than the financial credit rating system.

            • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday June 21 2021, @08:39PM

              by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday June 21 2021, @08:39PM (#1147813) Journal

              Oh, I've dealt with bad service, and haven't always won either. Hospital billing, for instance. I wouldn't give just anyone permission to draft my checking account, and hospitals are most certainly on that blacklist! After a year of going round and round with the hospital and the health insurer, I finally told them I didn't accept and would not pay their outrageous charges that none of them could so much as explain. To collect, they would have had to sue me, and they didn't. Possession is 9/10th of the law, and in that case, I had that advantage.

              Rebates, on the other hand, they take the money, and then are supposed to return some. Yes, they've defrauded me a couple of times, and got away with it. There was a wave of rebate fraud in the early 2000s, and most people, including me, don't do rebates any more.

        • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Monday June 21 2021, @02:45AM (3 children)

          by epitaxial (3165) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:45AM (#1147594)

          Lol you pay the power company in cash? Sounds like a blast waiting in line with the other bums and deadbeats who can't hold bank accounts.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:25AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:25AM (#1147615)

            Electronic check. Quickly and easily done online at my bank's website each month. Payment normally clears the same day. The critical part is that I have control. Yes, that means that I'm responsible for my own mistakes, but that is exactly as it should be.

            • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Monday June 21 2021, @01:03PM (1 child)

              by epitaxial (3165) on Monday June 21 2021, @01:03PM (#1147647)

              So you aren't using cash then.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @03:58PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @03:58PM (#1147696)

                I missed the line where the original poster said they paid cash and was pointing out how doing so isn't necessary. What I get for posting at stupid-o`clock in the morning.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:20AM (1 child)

        by sjames (2882) on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:20AM (#1147444) Journal

        This type of energy saving program has been around for decades and IIRC started in California as a way to mitigate their rolling blackouts.

        True, but you usually expect some sort of discount, not just an entry in a sweepstakes in return.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:27AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:27AM (#1147616)

          That's how they do it in California, with a monthly discount. Count on Texas to find a way to screw the consumer that even PG&E didn't think of.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:51AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:51AM (#1147437)

      They elected Ted Cruz.

      Q.E.D.

      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @04:24PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @04:24PM (#1147514)

        Because he's tough and sticks it to people. Oh.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by epitaxial on Monday June 21 2021, @02:47AM

          by epitaxial (3165) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:47AM (#1147595)

          You mean the guy who flew to Mexico during the winter blackouts? Then when he was caught he blamed his daughters on wanting to go on vacation? Then when that story didn't work he claimed he was only dropping them off to return to Texas. Then his story changed again to say he was going to be working remotely. Yeah, real tough guy.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:14AM (6 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:14AM (#1147441) Homepage Journal

      That said, the guy who said "it was 78 degrees. My baby could have died". Oh shut the fuck up, snowflake. 78 is nothing.

      Just a couple generations back, there was no air conditioning, in Texas, or anywhere. How did babies survive hot summers? Did no babies survive the infamous Dust Bowl of the 1930's?

      Funny thing - babies are just as human as you and I. When they get cold, they shiver. When they get hot, they sweat. And, they survive weather extremes, so long as their parents take reasonable care of them.

      And, as you point out - 78 degrees F is nowhere near extreme.

      --
      Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by PiMuNu on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:59PM (5 children)

        by PiMuNu (3823) on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:59PM (#1147528)

        Babies have immature bodies and high surface area to volume ratio, so are much more vulnerable to temperature fluctuations.

        https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/environment/beattheheat/Pages/babies-children-hot-weather.aspx [nsw.gov.au]

        • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:29PM

          by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:29PM (#1147535)

          Babies have immature bodies and high surface area to volume ratio, so are much more vulnerable to temperature fluctuations.

          So?

          That doesn't change or modify anything Runaway said.

          Babies have a great built in survival mechanism to handle a bit of variability in their condition. First and for most is the fact that when they aren't happy they cry to alert the parents that something isn't right. As long as the parents are actually being attentive the baby would be fine.

          If anything did happen to the baby it would be because the parents fucked up.

          --
          "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:16PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:16PM (#1147554)

          From your own fucking link:

          make sure the room does not get too cold when using an air-conditioner, 24-26 degrees Celsius is low enough.

          24-26 Celsius is 75.2 to 78.8 degrees F, which is the range of the temperature quoted in TFA!

          Your own fucking link implies if the parent had his cooling system set significantly lower than that, he was already more likely to be out of the baby comfort zone that then temperature you're complaining about!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @08:03AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @08:03AM (#1147626)

            Fuck fuck fuckity fuck. I find if I fucking write fucking fuck in my fucking reply it fucking well fuckity makes the fucking argument much fucking better.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @01:11PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @01:11PM (#1147650)

              When you're replying to someone stupid, it does make the argument better. Fuck you!

              (See -- if I just wrote the first sentence, this reply would be boring. Now it's got that spiciness. Woo! Fuck, fuck, fuck! Woo! You might even be baited into replying with more stupidity. Fuck, fuck, fuck! Woo!)

          • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Monday June 21 2021, @03:52PM

            by Dr Spin (5239) on Monday June 21 2021, @03:52PM (#1147694)

            24-26 degrees Celsius is low enough

            I live in the UK.

            My lounge aircon is permanently set to 22.6, year round, day and night.
            ISO standard room temperature is 21 degrees.

            16 degrees is considered normal bedroom temperature in the UK. I personally prefer 18 degrees.

            --
            Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:53AM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:53AM (#1147448)

      78 degrees outdoors is a nice pleasant day, but 78 degrees indoors is uncomfortable. But nobody is going to die. Once you get used to air conditioning (or any other thing really) having to go without seems just horrible... but yet somehow life goes on.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @12:24PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @12:24PM (#1147466)
        Or you can open the windows and get some fresh air when it's 78° outside. It was 60° F last night and my neighbour still has the AC on to remove the heat build-up from living in a totally closed home, rather than save money and get fresh air by opening a few windows. "But it's cold outside."
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:05PM (#1147529)
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:30PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @10:30PM (#1147556)

        78 degrees outdoors is a nice pleasant day, but 78 degrees indoors is uncomfortable

        I wish people would stop talking about temperature without referencing humidity. That number you're talking about is useless.

        The reason 78 degrees indoors is SOMETIMES uncomfortable is generally because lack of adequate humidity control and ventilation. 78 degrees with 100% humidity is horrific. 78 degrees with 30-40% humidity and a little air circulation is perfectly comfortable for most people, no matter whether you're indoors or outdoors.

        Two problems generally occur: (1) In transitional seasons or in areas that don't tend to get hot enough to make AC systems run long enough, humidity can build up indoors. Turning your AC temp down causes the system to run more and remove humidity, which is often more important to decreasing discomfort at moderate temperatures. Leaving it at 78 degrees when it's not hot enough to make the system run might result in discomfort. (2) If you're used to having your system always set to, say, 68 degrees, not only does your body get used to it, but everything in your house is at that temperature. If you suddenly turn the temp way up to 78, and your house isn't perfectly tight (as few houses are), humidity is going to gradually seep in... while it's taking a long time for your house to warm up and the AC isn't running to remove this new humidity. By the time you get to 78 degrees, everything inside is humid and awful... which makes people start turning down the thermostat again to chase after comfort when really they just need to remove humidity (not necessarily get a lower temperature).

        Having lived in a different climates, including those with very hot summers and more moderate summers, I can tell you that most AC systems in a VERY HOT place will make your house perfectly comfortable at 78 degrees inside. But if the AC doesn't run enough at that temp (as in more moderate places) AND you don't have cool enough nights to remove humidity from the air, it may end up quite uncomfortable at 78 degrees.

        The solution to all of this really is whole-house dehumidifiers, which really should be part of standard climate control systems... as the humidity is generally more of a problem in many climates and in transitional seasons. Why HVAC designers don't include this more often... well, I don't know. It certainly wastes huge amounts of energy as people keep turning down their thermostats to 68 to chase after a humidity problem that could be solved more efficiently and more quickly with other methods.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @01:36AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @01:36AM (#1147580)

        I'll take 69 indoors or outdoors.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by loonycyborg on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:43AM (2 children)

      by loonycyborg (6905) on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:43AM (#1147452)

      Well since I think in terms of Celsius, 78 doesn't sound like nothing to me.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:17PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:17PM (#1147482)

        Since you claim you think, you are probably not in Texas.

      • (Score: 1) by BeaverCleaver on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:50PM

        by BeaverCleaver (5841) on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:50PM (#1147550)

        25.6 celsius. Yeah, I had to look it up too.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday June 21 2021, @02:09PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:09PM (#1147660) Journal

      the guy who said "it was 78 degrees. My baby could have died". Oh shut the fuck up, snowflake. 78 is nothing.

      It's a good thing that air conditioning was invented thousands of years ago. Otherwise I cannot conceive of how humans could have survived to the 20th century without air conditioning.

      --
      NSA does only TARGETED surveillance. It's just that they target everyone.
  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:28AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:28AM (#1147421)

    Free Texas! The Lone-star State!

    Build the wall, and make Texas pay for it.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday June 21 2021, @02:14PM (2 children)

      by DannyB (5839) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:14PM (#1147664) Journal

      I don't have a problem if Texas would build a wall along its Northern, Eastern and Western borders.

      Free Texas? The purpose of the wall is to keep them safely enclosed. Safe from other states, the federal government, regulations, and the very idea of having laws, rules and societal norms.

      If Texas could build such a wall as I propose, they could leave the USA and become part of Mexico. Call it Texaco.

      Maybe Mexico could become part of Texas.

      Free Texas? That's like emptying out the mental institutions and prisons; closing them down to reduce government budget and allow people independent thought and expression.

      --
      NSA does only TARGETED surveillance. It's just that they target everyone.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @05:15PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @05:15PM (#1147725)

        I thought it was "Free Texas!" as in "Free Beer!" Only no one seems to take up the Texas offer...

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:28AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 22 2021, @04:28AM (#1147932)

          It turns out that Texas is the Bud Lite of states.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by MIRV888 on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:27AM (21 children)

    by MIRV888 (11376) on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:27AM (#1147434)

    This same 'service' was offered where I live. It was really clear to me that this would allow LG&E to cut A/C units in order to prevent the load from exceeding the generation. 7k breakers start popping when that happens and it's all downhill from there. We have a base load coal fired plant, a natural gas turbine setup for peak loading, and a number of natural gas fired 12 cylinder engines for the worst hour or so of the day. So the margins on power during a hot day are pretty thin. LG&E danced around what this service was actually intended to do, but did list it in the advertising literature. So it was there in black and white for the Texans too. I don't get the outrage. You don't have to be an electrical engineer to understand what they are doing and why.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:58AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:58AM (#1147450)

      I have to quote a block from the official page to explain it, so I'll quote and then explain.

      The Program allows you to join your community to help save energy and reduce stress on the electric grid in your electricity service area. Every time you participate in a temperature adjustment event as described below as part of the Program, you will be automatically entered into our “Win $5,000” sweepstakes, as described below.

      By participating in the Program, you agree to allow EnergyHub, Inc. and your thermostat provider to remotely access your thermostat to make brief, limited adjustments to your thermostat temperature setting at times of peak electricity demand in the summer. You may benefit by seeing a reduced electricity bill. You can opt out of these temperature adjustments at any time, as described below.

      You have the option of choosing which energy-saving events you participate in, but the more you participate, the more chances you’ll have to win the sweepstakes.

      Guy probably read that first paragraph and said, "$5000 is $5000." He probably didn't even really read the rest that describe them as a change of 4° that lasts between 1-4 hours. He probably also didn't consider that 4° is a somewhat large change that might cause his home to heat unevenly and overshoot it by quite a bit in some rooms.

      And that is assuming that he even read that. Probably the installer helped set up his thermostat, just asked if he wanted to be enrolled in Smart Savers Texas, mentioned the $5000 with the homeowner barely paying attention, and the guy just said "yes."

      • (Score: 2) by MIRV888 on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:28AM

        by MIRV888 (11376) on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:28AM (#1147451)

        Yeah, that was a very understandable explanation of what I described. I think there was like a $5 off your bill incentive around here.
        $5000 is a lot of money. I bet the odds were lottery great.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:54PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:54PM (#1147498)

        Ok, so in exchange for you, the power company, making as many remote changes to my thermostat as you like, I get entered into a "chance" to with a $5000 sweepstakes where the odds of my winning are like 1:9999999999.

        That is a very uneven exchange, and if Texans had been smart, not one person would have enrolled in that scam of an exchange.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @02:05AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @02:05AM (#1147587)

          where the odds of my winning are like 1:9999999999.

          Texas is big, but there aren't that many people there. In fact, there aren't that many people on earth. Unless you count the lizard people, but most of them are clustered around national capitols, and not in Texas.

          Assuming that one private home-owner electrical utility customer in Texas is going to win that $5000, your odds are a lot closer to 1:8,000,000. YMMV depending on how you run the numbers on a population of ~29,000,000.

      • (Score: 2) by SunTzuWarmaster on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:34PM

        by SunTzuWarmaster (3971) on Tuesday June 22 2021, @02:34PM (#1148011)

        I mean - we have a similar system around here in FL. You get something like $7 off your bill monthly in exchange for giving the power company access to shut off various portions.

        Some relevant information for our program:
        1 - There is an override switch. If you click the override switch during the month, you will not get $7. While I have never hit it - its not like I'm unwilling to pay $7 under certain circumstances.
        2 - There is an order of shut-down. Pool pump is first. Hot Water is second. AC is last.

        I think it is my civic duty to forfeit my power needs on behalf of others in time of crisis. If there are people who need me to turn off my pool pump (and turn it on again in the evening) so that they don't overheat (and die, real threat, it was 100+ yesterday), I'm happy to.

        That said - let's not overlook the 'override'. If *I* am one of those people, I'd like for others to do the same for *me*.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @12:46PM (15 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @12:46PM (#1147469)
      Remember all those ads asking you to save energy by switching to these shitty spiral CFL lights? Well, the daylight LED lighting (5.000° colour temp, not the ghastly looking dim "indoor 2200° colour temp LEDs) are the real deal. I replaced all my lighting with daylight colour LEDS - so many my place is lit up like a grow-op (i like having lots of light, especially in the winter). My energy consumption the next billing period dropped so much that my next bill was significantly less despite a scheduled rate increase. The bill after that there was a notice to the effect that they had replaced my meter, thinking it was defective or I had rigged it. Nope, the savings continue to roll in.

      The bulbs pay for themselves quickly. I have 31 around the place (mix of 60 watt equivalent, consumes 10 watts, 880 lumens output, and 100 watt equivalent, consumes 14 watts, 1500 lumens). Even put 2 60 watt equivalent in the fridge).

      Be cheap. Swap your bulbs for daylight LEDs . Bonus points for fighting seasonal depression by having the place lit up like it's summer.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:01PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:01PM (#1147476) Journal

        We have found LEDs to pay for themselves quickly as well.

        We experimented with different varieties because daylight was too glaring and the soft white wasn't bright enough; we mix them in fixtures now, which sounds strange at first blush, but produces a more pleasant and functional result.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:58PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:58PM (#1147491)

          I too mix cheaper LEDs - unless you're using high CRI emitters [wikipedia.org] you get color spikes all over the place. Mixing brands and color temperatures them tends to even it out some.

          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday June 21 2021, @02:59AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:59AM (#1147597) Homepage

            Back when I replaced my barnyard light, the adequately-bright outdoor LEDs were super-white. Made everything look flat and colorless. Took about a year but apparently my brain learned to compensate, and I began seeing color and texture again under its glaring influence. And when I had to replace my yard light (another gawdawful whiter-than-white LED, but choice of one in bright enough) that one didn't bother me and things looked adequately normal right off. Not perfect, but sure better than initial exposure to the first one.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday June 20 2021, @03:30PM (10 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday June 20 2021, @03:30PM (#1147503) Journal

        Do the 5000K ones really work? I suspect I get winter seasonal affective disorder and a few GE Refresh bulbs sound a hell of a lot cheaper than a light therapy box. Also, what do they look like? Is the light they give out blue and fluorescent-looking?

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:17PM (7 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @05:17PM (#1147524)

          My experience with LED lights of all kinds is that about half of them are duds and the rest have lifespans well short of incandescent bulbs, typically just a few months although if you don't mind misbehaving lights you can stretch it to a year or two. Also, they have a tendency to flicker. Not the persistent eyestraining flicker like fluorescents have, just once in a while they flash off for a tenth of a second or so. I think out of the twenty or so LED bulbs that I've owned, only one has worked correctly and consistently for a reasonable period of time, surprisingly it's a 2500 lumen floodlight I use to light up my back yard.

          I really do like the color of the 5000K lights, though. I use them in my home office even though they have all the problems. It's justifiable to replace the bulb three times a year because it improves my alertness and concentration so much. Also it stops me from noticing when the sun rises and sets. That's got pros and cons.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:36PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @09:36PM (#1147548)

            My experience with LED lights of all kinds is that about half of them are duds and the rest have lifespans well short of incandescent bulbs, typically just a few months although if you don't mind misbehaving lights you can stretch it to a year

            The big problem with LED bulbs is overheating causing component failure.

            I've had 17 fail so far, when I stripped them down they all showed signs of having been subjected to excess heating, all the LEDs were ok when tested, but the driver PCBs were all discoloured by heating to varying degrees, several with blown ICs, all with bad solder connections - some probably existed from manufacture, but excess heat caused their failure, and the scariest one so far - a completely burnt, toasted board,

            I've found it doesn't matter if the bulb is a brand name or a cheap Chinese one, they all fail the same ways (probably the same basic circuitry is used in all of them based on the reference design in the application notes for the ICs used).

            We have an uplighter which on average eats one LED bulb every 6 months or so, as a test, I'm going to buy two identical bulbs, carefully Dremel air ventillation slots in the next LED bulb of the pair that we feed it, run it till it fails then use the unmodified one and compare their operational lifespans.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:48AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:48AM (#1147621)

              In my experience CFL bulbs have the same overheating problem only worse. I've never had an LED bulb base catch fire like CFLs sometimes do but you might want to be careful about where you install the one with holes in it. If it is in an enclosed fixture you might be better served by drilling ventilation holes in that instead.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @12:05PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @12:05PM (#1147640)

                ..you might want to be careful about where you install the one with holes in it. If it is in an enclosed fixture you might be better served by drilling ventilation holes in that instead.

                It'll be in an uplighter in the livingroom, there'll be someone there if things go...toasty.

                Regarding your point about CFLs, yes, they were bad for this as well, I never had any catch fire but I had a couple, probably from the same batch (going by the fact that they were factory shrinkwrapped together when bought) where the heat caused the plastic bases to disintegrate in situ.

                A final couple of musings about LED lighting,

                We have some parts of the house where there is no natural light or the lighting is poor (e.g. the cupboard where the comms gear and servers lurk), so, as they were low wattage (3W) and very cheap at the time, we bought 9 of the previous models of these beasties

                https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/naevlinge-led-work-lamp-white-00404925/ [ikea.com]

                And 4 of the previous models of these

                https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/naevlinge-led-clamp-spotlight-black-30449885/ [ikea.com] (Mainly as reading lights, but I've one of the older models of this on my lathe)

                They're deployed throughout the darker spots in the house, one of these, acting as an uplighter in the darkest recess of a hallway with no natural light, has been on now continuously for close on 4 years without issues (running cost to date: approx £5/$6.90 per year), and so far we've had no failures due to electrical/electronic issues with them, the lamps run hot, their driving wall warts run just above ambient.

                As all the bulbs in the house are now LED, it seems crazy to drive these things at 240V and watch them fail due to the thermal issues this causes, so I'm currently investigating switching my mains powered lighting circuit over to a 24V SELV one driving LED lamps and strips, ceiling fans might be an issue, we've a number of mains powered ones installed and the 24V ones I've seen are a bit overpriced for my liking, though It does give me an excuse to 'frankenstein' a couple of mains powered ones as a test.

                I'm betting that it won't be long before the various international wiring regulations will start mandating that all new build houses have 24/48V SELV lighting circuits by default (along with battery backup for emergency lighting and 'smart grid' load futzing), the current direct mains powered LED bulbs are a stop-gap measure.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @04:50PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @04:50PM (#1147714)

                  If it has a wall wart then that is where the voltage step-down is occurring. The heat is coming from the LED bulb itself, not the support electronics. SELV doesn't help with that at all and can actually make things less efficient compared to modern switching supplies. My comment about the fixture was based on the assumption that you were using a traditional enclosed fixture, not an integrated unit.

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:43AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:43AM (#1147620)

            That sounds like you have very dirty power. Those flashes you are seeing are power spikes and they will kill most electronics fairly quickly unless you use a surge suppressor or UPS. That isn't the LED bulbs' fault. I'm guessing that you either live out in the country or very close to a heavy industrial district.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @08:10AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @08:10AM (#1147628)

            Sure, had same problem with the cheap Chinese garbage. Upgraded to lights from non-generic sources. I have had a failure yet (3 years and counting).

            Buy cheap, pay twice.

          • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Monday June 21 2021, @11:54AM

            by Dr Spin (5239) on Monday June 21 2021, @11:54AM (#1147639)

            My experience with LED lights of all kinds is that about half of them are duds and the rest have lifespans well short of incandescent bulbs

            They are not marshmallows - don't toast them (or eat them).

            --
            Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 21 2021, @02:19AM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday June 21 2021, @02:19AM (#1147589) Homepage Journal

          5000k daylight LEDs are like daylight as near as my vision can tell. There's no blue, no yellow, no red or amber color to the light - it's just like daylight. The light is whiter than those old 500 watt high pressure bulbs were that claimed to be daylight.

          --
          Through a Glass, Darkly -George Patton
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @02:48PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @02:48PM (#1147676)

            5000k daylight LEDs are like daylight as near as my vision can tell. There's no blue, no yellow, no red or amber color to the light - it's just like daylight.

            Depends on the LED, many use cheaper phosphors and have a green color cast. It's extremely difficult to engineer an LED with an even color spectrum. They're now generally better than they were but for high color accuracy, you'd still be looking at yuji [yujiintl.com] and the like.

      • (Score: 2) by MIRV888 on Sunday June 20 2021, @04:53PM

        by MIRV888 (11376) on Sunday June 20 2021, @04:53PM (#1147520)

        The disco inferno led strips are cheap too. You can illuminate nicely with white light.
        Or get funky with it.
        ;-)

  • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:52AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @06:52AM (#1147438)

    ...Connect as many things to the internet as possible; you are helping poor starving cyber security experts make a decent wage. It's the patriotic thing to do. No country should have to live without constant fear of an invisible adversary.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:58AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @07:58AM (#1147449)

    It's an opt-in program. There's a similar one where I live, though at least we get actual bill credits for it instead of just "entry into a sweepstakes." I'm not opted in, but maybe I should be considering how little I actually use the air conditioner.

  • (Score: 2) by noneof_theabove on Sunday June 20 2021, @12:54PM

    by noneof_theabove (6189) on Sunday June 20 2021, @12:54PM (#1147472)

    Do you have an electrical co-op in your area? Join it.

    You are now a share holder and every christmas time

    you get a stock holder share check.

    May be a little [

    My problem.

    I live in a city that still has a monopoly, electric & gas,

    and a Water Control District for water.

    We are locked to those 2 providers

    no co-op although there are several to pick from.

    Communications are open unless you require a land line.

    That is only Verizon but there are no restrictions on cell and VoIP.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:01PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:01PM (#1147475)

    Shoot the thermostat... problem solved.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday June 21 2021, @02:16PM

      by DannyB (5839) on Monday June 21 2021, @02:16PM (#1147665) Journal

      Make the thermostat believe it is controlling the A/C or heat.

      --
      NSA does only TARGETED surveillance. It's just that they target everyone.
  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:05PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:05PM (#1147478) Journal

    We live in a time of technological abundance. It's possible to be more decentralized and independent than ever before, but people like these in the story only want to give up more and more control of their lives to faceless entities far away.

    They deserve what they get.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:29PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:29PM (#1147486)

    a green energy source that correlates its energy output with the sun,
    That would be an ideal world

    • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:49PM (3 children)

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Sunday June 20 2021, @01:49PM (#1147489) Journal

      That's got it's points, but while it would mitigate this particular problem, there are other situations where it makes things worse.

      The real answer is to stop under-building your power network. You can handle that with solar panels and lots of battery backup if you want to, but you need enough backup to survive an ice storm followed by a few weeks of freezing fog.

      Just about every power source needs a backup to be a good choice. Solar cell systems and wind systems need larger backups, but they've got advantages that compensate. But no system works well without enough backup. (Deals to import power count as backups, but only if you mainly generate excess power.)

      --
      Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:18PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:18PM (#1147493)

        there are other situations where it makes things worse.

        Feed-in requires ever more HV power transformers and switching when we've yet to fully replace SF6 as an arc suppressant. [nuventura.com] Same deal with the environmental cost of battery manufacture. It can be futile explaining to people that their "clean energy" isn't. We're getting there but I fear the cost of premature adoption isn't being fully considered.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @03:56PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @03:56PM (#1147512)

          premature? hahaha you mean "not before we placed toll demanding trolls on every bridge".
          nobody waited for the grid " to be ready" when everybody started buying and connecting refrigerators in the 50s and 60s.
          we are doing solar NOW, the grid will adapt, just like it always has!

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:23PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @08:23PM (#1147544)

            we are doing solar NOW

            Yes we are! [seeker.com]

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:45PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:45PM (#1147496)

    internet of (somebody else's) things

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:57PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @02:57PM (#1147500)

    I have zero sympathy for these folks complaining.

    They did not read the fine print, and did not understand what they were opting into -- and that is 100% their own fault.

    Pay attention to what you are opting into in the future, idiots.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @01:41AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @01:41AM (#1147582)

      Everyone must be a lawyer. Perfect harmony.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 21 2021, @06:50AM (#1147622)

      This kind of thing should be large print but people don't even read headlines anymore.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @04:05PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20 2021, @04:05PM (#1147513)

    it's milking the cow AFTER eating the calf. and now the cow is old and dry.
    zero-paperwork grid-tie solar NOW!

  • (Score: 2) by tizan on Monday June 21 2021, @05:21PM

    by tizan (3245) on Monday June 21 2021, @05:21PM (#1147729)

    I thought possessing and carrying without a permit would allow you to go and scare the power companies from messing with your house temps.
    Use your guns those who have it...it is your freedom..liberate your energy supply.

       

  • (Score: 2) by tizan on Monday June 21 2021, @05:25PM

    by tizan (3245) on Monday June 21 2021, @05:25PM (#1147733)

    Routers allow you to have multiple wifi network...why not put all IoT stuff on one wifi net and then switch that off when you don't want people to monitor you.

(1)