Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Sunday October 10, @01:22PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]

High Power PCIe Gen5 power connector for next-gen GPUs pictured, up to 600W

Earlier this week [we published] an article about the upcoming flagship GeForce RTX 3090 Ti graphics card, which is now set to launch in January. The graphics card is supposedly the first card to feature a PCIe Gen5 power connector, a new standard that will ultimately solve one of the biggest drawbacks of the current 8-pin power connector, an insufficient power it can provide (up to 150W).

Igor Wallossek from Igor'sLAB managed to obtain the schematics and the information on the new connector, confirming that there is indeed a new standard coming, possibly to all new graphics cards in 2022.

Just as we said, the power connector has 16 lanes in total (12 power and 4 signal lanes), but it's not a MicroFit Molex standard, but something entirely new. The standard [as defined] has smaller spacing than existing connectors, a change from 4.2 mm to 3.0 mm. The connector has a width of 18.85 mm, so it is not exactly small, but much smaller than dual or triple 8-pin connector configuration. This will greatly simplify the circuit and PCB design process, not to mention all the space that will be saved.

The PCI-SIG specs define that each pin can sustain up to 9.2A, which means a total of 55.2 A at 12V. This gives a maximum power of 662W, but the specs officially go up to 600W, Igor notes. Along with twelve pins for power, there are [an] additional 4 signal lanes right underneath the connector. At this moment it is unclear what [their purpose is] or whether they are required or optional.

Also at Wccftech.


Original Submission

Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Reply to Article Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @02:26PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @02:26PM (#1185924)

    No the plug, it is cool. Is the global warming coal, oil, gas fired plants, generating being kept on-line. Crypto minding cards and the people doing should be TAXED at 2000%, on equipment and power. Then profits at 100%. Go and mine, pay the price.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @03:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @03:50PM (#1185933)

      What are you talking about? I intend to use this connector for higher framerates and ray-tracing features for my VR porn game habit.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @04:15PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @04:15PM (#1185937)

    We need to have more GPU coin sucking on the electrical system so we can plug directly into nuclear power plants and save our renewables.
    Oh and for God's sake, always make a NEW adapter.
    We need more different adapters so we can identify them properly.
    Maybe a different one for each manufacturer?
    And PLEASE make them with forever chemicals so they last a long time.

    Thanks so much,
    The Environment

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @10:52PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @10:52PM (#1186006)

      Son, that's called Choice. The best adapter is the one that survives.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:05AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:05AM (#1186016)

        Child, that's called wishful thinking. The cheapest adapter is the one that survives.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday October 11, @04:09PM

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @04:09PM (#1186180) Journal

          Mommy, which adapter is the one that will generate the mostest profits on bitcoin?

          --
          Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Monday October 11, @07:56AM

      by driverless (4770) on Monday October 11, @07:56AM (#1186088)

      It's OK, soon we'll have CEE 17 plugs on video cards and that should hold things for awhile.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by looorg on Sunday October 10, @04:34PM (10 children)

    by looorg (578) on Sunday October 10, @04:34PM (#1185939)

    While they might not pull it yet, or some kind of specialty card such as miners probably will, I wonder how much heat will a 600W GPU card generate and how much sound will be produced as you try and dissipate said heat via fans, or are they strictly for liquid cooling. I don't see Igor mentioning anything about heat, but I could have missed it. 600W is a fairly decent small space heater.

    From the images on Igors site it looks like they just fused two connectors together, a standard four pin molex attached to a normal 12 pin power plug. They could have just used two cable to connect to it them. Putting them in one plastic package really isn't some gigantic leap forward in connector design is it?

    • (Score: 3, Touché) by maxwell demon on Sunday October 10, @04:54PM (5 children)

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday October 10, @04:54PM (#1185942) Journal

      I wonder how much heat will a 600W GPU card generate

      That one is easy: About 600W. Almost all the energy that goes in the card is turned into heat.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @10:55PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @10:55PM (#1186007)

        Heat, and hi-def VR porn.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @01:32AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @01:32AM (#1186032)

          VR porn turns into heat went the meat is beat.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday October 11, @04:12PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @04:12PM (#1186181) Journal

            The angle of the dangle is directly proportional to the heat of the meat times the direction of the erection and is inversely proportional to the mass of the ass squared.

            --
            Employers should not mandate wearing clothing. It should be a personal choice. It only affects me. Junk can't breathe!
      • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Monday October 11, @12:49PM (1 child)

        by shrewdsheep (5215) Subscriber Badge on Monday October 11, @12:49PM (#1186116)

        It's funny, that is exactly the answer I got from the HPC guy back at university. I did not reply at the time, only thought to myself: you haven't thought this one through. What exactly should be the "left over energy" be? All the bit configurations are equivalent, thereby containing the same energy. The only loophole is to argue that you can change the number of "1"s vs "0"s. Whichever charges a capacitor more, holds more energy. So writing all "1"s (or "0"s, depending on hardware) to every memory location might indeed store a tiny bit of energy, but you are not allowed to write a "0" henceforward.

        • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday October 11, @04:08PM

          by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday October 11, @04:08PM (#1186179) Journal

          A small part of the energy leaves the card in the form of electric signals to the motherboard, or to the monitor. Sure, eventually that energy will be turned into heat, too, but not in the graphics card (and also, eventually, any energy will be turned into heat, therefore it is not reasonable to count the heat generated elsewhere as part of the heat generated by the graphics card). Also, an even smaller of the energy will leave in the form of non-thermal electromagnetic radiation. And of course, part of it will be turned into kinetic energy of air or water, depending on the cooling system (remember, the connector provides power for the complete graphics card, not just the chips in it), and if it is air, probably also quite a bit of acoustic noise.

          --
          The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday October 10, @08:39PM (1 child)

      The connector has a width of 18.85 mm, so it is not exactly small, but much smaller than dual or triple 8-pin connector configuration. This will greatly simplify the circuit and PCB design process, not to mention all the space that will be saved.

      I got the impression that this is intended to be the final cable for all GPUs. Just use this thing on all of them and you're good, with the exception of the ones that only need 75 Watts. Nothing will actually use 600 Watts, and if it does, it could be during a turbo boost mode or just to set world records.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Sunday October 10, @09:59PM

        by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Sunday October 10, @09:59PM (#1185987) Journal

        NVidia designs like 2022 upcoming RTX 3090Ti already is at 450W and next generation designs RTX 4000 (Lovelace, 5nm) are at 600W,
        out of pure despair in marketing department since on market this is expected to be positioned against Navi31 at 450W.

        Anyway, 450W per card is becoming a high end standard in 2022/2023.

        As always, always expect the worst.

        --
        The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @11:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 10, @11:00PM (#1186008)

      Not problem, water cool. So the stream that is released turns a turbine and generates electric power to power that card. Nice closed loop system.

      New York could use this to create stream to heat building. No need for fossil fuels. And they pay for themselves with bit coins. Lowers the cost of heating for everyone.

    • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Tuesday October 12, @02:25PM

      by wisnoskij (5149) <jonathonwisnoskiNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday October 12, @02:25PM (#1186416)

      Next generation, both CPU and GPU has been announced as using I think 45 percent more power.

      So, a couple months and we will be seeing normal consumer cards pulling that.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Sunday October 10, @04:37PM (5 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 10, @04:37PM (#1185940) Journal

    My decade old PC with a Radeon HD 5450 handles video playback just fine, and is okay for most mainstream MMORPG games, with the graphics options all set below average. Can't have reflective surfaces actually reflecting, that ancient graphics card can't handle that much work. Long as you've tuned it, it can run the game at a reasonable frame rate. But it still drags on games that require 3D graphics at high frame rates. Drops so many frames it makes the movement jerky and difficult to control at sufficient precision. Any game play that requires arcade style precision is way harder on that computer. If the game uses mouse movement to control camera angle and player movement, the frame rate has to stay high to keep that smooth.

    At the opposite extreme, I had the experience of Doom being playable on a 486, but not a then new Pentium. The 486 was jerky enough that the slightly incorrect perspective did not lead to motion sickness. But the Pentium's much greater speed made it silky smooth, which unfortunately made the perspective problem much more noticeable. I couldn't play Doom on the Pentium.

    This monster power boost will allow, what? 8K at 120 fps? On multiple monitors? Whatever it supports, it's sure to be hella expensive. Makes the gap between low end and high end graphics wider.

    • (Score: 2) by loic on Sunday October 10, @05:26PM (3 children)

      by loic (5844) on Sunday October 10, @05:26PM (#1185943)

      xx90 are not intended for gaming. These are made for fast 3D pre-rendering or for AI computation in cases where you do not want to bother with a cluster. Their idle power consumption is just stupid (115W) and these are really noisy.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday October 10, @09:02PM

        While the RTX 3090 should be considered a "prosumer" card, great for making your celeb deepfakes, it's also marketed towards gamers. Some gamers bought one for nearly $2,000 simply because it was available during the ongoing GPU pricing fiasco and/or it's the best.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Sunday October 10, @10:27PM (1 child)

        by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Sunday October 10, @10:27PM (#1185994)
        It's in a weird spot. It's not a Titan, it lacks the driver features of a Titan. It's only 10% faster than a 3080 and 5%ish faster than a 3080 ti so getting it purely for gaming is vanity at best unless you are trying to push the limits with a crazy output resolution (NV markets it as an 8K gaming card). Or if like me it's what you could actually buy (3090FE at MSRP, annoyed at the time but feel lucky now). It's in some weird content creation + high end gaming space. This entire release cycle has just been weird from top to bottom.
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday October 10, @08:54PM

      Tier speculation table for RDNA 3 and RDNA 4. [wccftech.com]

      To address your comment:

      1. 4K or 8K, multi-monitor or ultra-wide possible. Anything above that probably only makes sense for VR.
      2. The argument for 1000 Hz has been made. [blurbusters.com]
      3. The industry will switch from pursuing rasterization gains to accelerating real-time raytracing and other things.
      4. The budget gamer who sticks to 1080p while the bleeding edge is attempting 8K or whatever is the real winner. APUs are improving to the point where the Steam Deck is targeting 720p30 on a handheld with Van Gogh, while laptops and desktops should be able to do 1080p reasonably well with Rembrandt. That's just next year.
      5. The 600 Watt power connector is not necessarily intended to result in consumer GPUs using 600 Watts. It looks like a one-size-fits-all solution for power delivery, and is more compact than a dual cable.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Sunday October 10, @04:48PM (6 children)

    by Dr Spin (5239) on Sunday October 10, @04:48PM (#1185941)

    26 pin Centronics connectors.

    --
    Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
    • (Score: 2) by drussell on Sunday October 10, @08:04PM (5 children)

      by drussell (2678) on Sunday October 10, @08:04PM (#1185963) Journal

      I think you mean 36-pin Centronics connector...

      There is no 26-pin version of the Amphenol micro-ribbon connectors. 24, yes... That is used for GPIB and for peripherals on things like the Commodore Pet. 50-pin is still relatively common in telecommunications and was formerly often used for early SCSI devices, but there never was a 26-pin...

      • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Sunday October 10, @08:15PM (4 children)

        by Dr Spin (5239) on Sunday October 10, @08:15PM (#1185965)

        Yes, I meant 36pin.

        (Not enough coffee).

        --
        Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:22AM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @12:22AM (#1186019)

          Just say you were working in base 15.

          • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday October 11, @08:14PM (2 children)

            by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday October 11, @08:14PM (#1186274) Journal

            But all bases are base 10. That is, one times base plus zero times one.

            --
            The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @12:58AM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 13, @12:58AM (#1186538)

              Ok, Base 1111.

              • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday October 13, @08:29AM

                by maxwell demon (1608) on Wednesday October 13, @08:29AM (#1186608) Journal

                You obviously didn't understand my comment. The point is, whatever base you use, you'll always give that base as base 10, as in that base the base is always written as 10.

                --
                The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday October 10, @06:05PM

    by sjames (2882) on Sunday October 10, @06:05PM (#1185947) Journal

    They're already working on the next version. I hear there's a prototype [wordpress.com].

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @01:37AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 11, @01:37AM (#1186033)

    Nvidia and the other GPU manufacturers are using gamers as socially convenient cover to manufacture mining rigs.

    • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Tuesday October 12, @02:29PM

      by wisnoskij (5149) <jonathonwisnoskiNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday October 12, @02:29PM (#1186417)

      We already know that the next generation of GPUs and CPUs will be using 45 percent more power. This very much will be for consumers in under a year. We already having GPUs with a triple plug. Next year it would of been 5 plugs without this.

  • (Score: 2) by wisnoskij on Tuesday October 12, @02:32PM (2 children)

    by wisnoskij (5149) <jonathonwisnoskiNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday October 12, @02:32PM (#1186419)

    Considering that next generation has confirmed as using 45 percent more power (both CPU and GPU) this was a forgone necessity. But the problem is the total power PSUs can push. We will probably need 2K PSUs, and we are not their yet. Low 1K is what the consumer market tops off at. Using 2 PSUs might become commonplace.

    • (Score: 2) by sgleysti on Tuesday October 12, @09:29PM

      by sgleysti (56) on Tuesday October 12, @09:29PM (#1186510)

      I found a 1600W PSU on newegg, for what it's worth. Appears to be ATX form factor, has some user reviews.

      https://www.newegg.com/evga-220-p2-1600-x1-1600w/p/N82E16817438037

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday October 14, @01:30PM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday October 14, @01:30PM (#1186959) Journal

      I don't think that's needed at all. You aren't going to see a 600 Watt consumer GPU next-gen, perhaps ever. Stick a CPU using 250 Watts with a GPU using 450 Watts, and that's a mere 700 Watts from the most power-hungry components. 2 kW not needed. Maybe 1200 W? Here's a 1300 W. [amazon.com]

      At some point there will be a reckoning with GPUs. How much rasterization and ray-tracing performance is needed? Flagship performance could be absurdly high [wccftech.com] even before the adoption of gate-all-around transistors and a couple further node shrinks. If multi-monitor 8K 1000 FPS is the target, then we still have a long way to go, but even APUs will have acceptable 4K performance soon (this a tricky thing because the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 already use "giant" APUs that target 4K 60 FPS in some games, while "the world's best desktop APU", the Ryzen 7 5700G, has comparatively anemic graphics performance).

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(1)