Patrick Paumen causes a stir whenever he pays for something in a shop or restaurant. This is because the 37-year-old doesn't need to use a bank card or his mobile phone to pay. Instead, he simply places his left hand near the contactless card reader, and the payment goes through.
[...] He is able to pay using his hand because back in 2019 he had a contactless payment microchip injected under his skin.
[...] And when it comes to implantable payment chips, British-Polish firm, Walletmor, says that last year it became the first company to offer them for sale.
[...] The technology Walletmor uses is near-field communication or NFC, the contactless payment system in smartphones. Other payment implants are based on radio-frequency identification (RFID), which is the similar technology typically found in physical contactless debit and credit cards.
"Chip implants contain the same kind of technology that people use on a daily basis," he says, "From key fobs to unlock doors, public transit cards like the London Oyster card, or bank cards with contactless payment function.
"The reading distance is limited by the small antenna coil inside the implant. The implant needs to be within the electromagnetic field of a compatible RFID [or NFC] reader. Only when there is a magnetic coupling between the reader and the transponder can the implant can be read."
[...] Yet the issue with such chips, (and what causes concern), is whether in the future they become ever more advanced, and packed full of a person's private data. And, in turn, whether this information is secure, and if a person could indeed be tracked.
Financial technology expert Theodora Lau asks "How much are we willing to pay, for the sake of convenience?" she says. "Where do we draw the line when it comes to privacy and security? Who will be protecting the critical infrastructure, and the humans that are part of it?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @04:38PM
A fellow from Sydney was doing similar years earlier.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-28/opal-card-meow-meow-implant-could-be-deactivated-by-authorities/8658986 [abc.net.au]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @04:44PM
i guess it will become easier to herd all "undesirables" on the same boeing MAX flight then ...
i guess goebbels, today, would be askin' "do you want to submit totally?"
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday April 14 2022, @04:50PM (3 children)
You're supposed to put it on your right hand, and your forehead. Don't these people read?
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:17PM (1 child)
Traditionally, people used to shake hands with their right because they wiped their arse with their left.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @02:32AM
for left handers is traditionally the other way around but people still want to shake the right hand go fugire.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 14 2022, @09:06PM
Nope!
Pretty sure the very people who rant and rave about that sort of thing will be lining right up so long as the proper personalities get their cut so it's all a moot point anyway!
(Score: 4, Touché) by srobert on Thursday April 14 2022, @04:53PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdPmNM0IF7Y [youtube.com]
"Where's your Tattoo? Why come you don't have a tattoo? You're not unscanable, are ya? You're Unscanable! UNSCANABLE!!!"
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:06PM (56 children)
in my right hand. Super-convenient to pay for small things. I have 9 other implants to do a variety of things with, from opening doors at home and at work to starting my car, sharing my information, holding my COVID-19 certificate, authenticating in my banking app, generating codes for websites that support 2FA, etc.
To those who think NFC / RFIC implants are a threat to privacy, please take a look in your pocket. See that cellphone? *That* tracks you remotely, all the time, invasively. RFID implants are mostly anonymous (not the Walletmor obviously...) and they remain unpowered unless they're 1/4" to 1" from a reader. In other words, IMPLANTS DON'T TRACK YOU!
As for those who object to implants on religious ground, well all I have to say to you is, fuck you, stay in your corner and quit polluting our future with your nonsensical beliefs invented by ancient Palestine sheperds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:41PM (3 children)
Something tells me you have one of them evil phones as well. So why grow your arack surface? You're still worse off than those you think are idiots... At best you're equally bad off...
Implants may not actively track you but they enable passive tracking you would otherwise be immune to. They also gucea guarantee that it is you and not someone borrowing your phone.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:58PM (2 children)
I'll bounce the question back to you: you can live without a cellphone. So why get one and grow your attack surface. The answer of course it you get benetifs from your cellphone: it's convenient to place phone calls anywhere, to have the internet at your fingertip anywhere, to take photos anywhere.
Well, same thing with my implants: I get benefits out of them. They provide services for me and make my life easier.
But implants provide those benefits with a very small increase in attack surface, compared to the phenomenal cost of owning a cellphone in terms of loss of privacy and anonymity.
Like I said, implants are passive. The only risk they pose is if I pass out or fall asleep and someone reads those of my implants that are not cryptographically secure while I'm out cold and clone them. Yeah, it's possible, but highly unlikely. Even assuming I'm not in a position to notice the shenanigans, the attack does require a fair bit technical knowledge, as well as being aware of which of my implants does what for what gain. In short, for an attacker to expend that much effort to abuse my implants, I'd have to be a very high value target, and I'm not.
A cellphone in comparison only requires you to buy it and power it up to be instantly tracked 24/7 by giant corporate surveillance companies and hundreds of data brokers feeding off what they gather about you. It's so easy and so cheap for Big Data that even penniless Joes with completely uninteresting lives are still worth tracking and monetizing.
The attack surface of an implant therefore is absolutely minuscule compared to that of a cellphone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @10:54PM (1 child)
What's the advantage over a keyfob? What if I wanted to get a small piece of plastic on a lanyard and have them put all the implants in there?
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Friday April 15 2022, @04:27AM
You can't lose it. You never forget it at home.
You can do anything you do with implants with traditional tags, badges, cards, keys or 2FA tokens. But with implants, you don't have to manage that small menagerie of devices you need throughout the day that crowd your pockets or your person, or curse yourself when you realize you forget them at home. They're always with you.
I go out of the house every morning with only my clothes on and nothing in my pocket, without ever having to pick up the keys I dropped in the tray by the front door, and I know I'll always be able to start my car to go to work, get into the compamy building, open my office, log into the computer, then head back home in the evening, open the garage and open my front door. Also, no keys means no car- or home-jacking.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:52PM (4 children)
The sooner we all embrace the "mark of the beast", the sooner the new Jerusalem will arrive. Get with the program, people.
Just be charitable toward those who are unable to "buy and sell". You can find them in tents under the freeway in most cities.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @11:05PM (3 children)
Future images are funny. The beast is here, and its mark is not some specific thing like these creepy implants. It will become more clear in 40±6 months, when the mammon machine rains destruction from the heavens.
unless
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @11:26PM
https://archive.ph/D0Kyv [archive.ph]
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 15 2022, @04:06AM (1 child)
You got that mixed up. Lavos is the one who "rains destruction from the heavens." The Mammon Machine, as is stated in the English release, "modifies all energy." Using magic on it powers it up, and smack it makes its defense go up.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @12:13PM
You're technically right. Wasn't it the Mammon Machine though that drew Lavos close to the surface and hastened the Day of Lavos? I remember Queen Zeal's arrogance that she could control Lavos and use it as an energy source was a part of the plot.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by mcgrew on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:59PM (43 children)
See that cellphone? *That* tracks you remotely, all the time, invasively.
Only when I make a call; I'm smart enough to only use location services when I need them. And there are no credit card numbers, important passwords, or anything else a thief may want on my phone, unlike your implants.
As for those who object to implants on religious ground, well all I have to say to you is, fuck you, stay in your corner and quit polluting our future with your nonsensical beliefs invented by ancient Palestine sheperds.
Like all atheists, you are clueless. Nobody at all is advocating your implant's illegality, and most religious scholars agree that the mark in your hand is your work, and the mark on your forehead is your thoughts.
Those ancient shepherds didn't live in Jerusalem, it was years after the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians before they were in Israel. Those shepherds didn't know nearly as much as any modern person, but they were every bit as intelligent. That book we call the "Bible"? It's the history of the world, from the big bang to the first century AD, as the ancient Jews saw it.
Once you hear God's voice [mcgrewbooks.com] it's not possible to disbelieve. You're the medievall British merchant who refuses to believe that Giraffes and Elephants exist just because they had never seen a real one. Seek, and you shall find.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:07PM
You're a loony.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by mce on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:27PM (6 children)
Only when I make a call
God, you really don't know anything about how the cellphone system works, do you?
Let me ask you one question: So if you don't want to have your location known you don't make calls, right? Good for you. But now let's say someone else wants to call you - be it from 5 miles away, or from the other side of the planet. How do you think the mobile operator can make your phone ring within a few seconds of said other person entering your number?
Here's a clue: As long as your phone is powered and unless you moved out of mobile coverage, they always know where it is to within a few miles - and even much less than that in areas with dense signal coverage.
And if you switch it off or leave mobile coverage, they still know when and where you did that.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday April 14 2022, @07:25PM (4 children)
You are making assumptions if you think my phone rings within five seconds. Fact is, it does not ring, because I don't keep it switched on. I have one but it's only for emergency use. OK, they might learn that I am by some remote roadside one day with an oil leak in my car, or something like that.
(Score: 2) by NateMich on Thursday April 14 2022, @09:11PM (2 children)
Imagine all the trouble you are going through, and nobody cares where you are.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Friday April 15 2022, @08:17AM (1 child)
I don't care whether they care or not, and you are making assumptions about why I don't generally turn my phone on.
Anyway, what is this "all the trouble" you think I am going through ? In fact I am saving the trouble of having to charge it every few days, and saving the trouble of it sounding off with spam arrivals while I am in the middle of doing things.
(Score: 2) by NateMich on Monday April 18 2022, @04:00PM
Avoiding the modern worlds, its inventions, and its benefits seems like a lot of trouble to me.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday April 14 2022, @09:40PM
Here's one to ponder...
I've bought several TracFones. You know that one HSN sells.
Comes with a year of service preloaded on the phone, which starts when you activate the phone, which may be years after the purchase. The phone is assigned a local phone number during the activation process. I will get these to gift to those I feel so guided to do so.
I noticed the phone knew where it was and had already set it's time, date, and time zone, and I haven't even activated it yet!
I often use the phone myself, offline, maybe for years, for other things, while I piece by piece side load my favorite goodies onto it. Usually by FTP, Asus File Manager, Brave ( an old one, the newer ones seem to misbehave ), and Trebleshot.
I avoid the mainstream play stores. My giftee gets a lot of open source stuff. Gigabytes of it. At that point, it's no longer just a phone...it's a database. They all get a 128GB TF card full of goodies. Music, family photos, text files, and a complete set of offline maps that pair with the phone GPS chipset. I know how many times I get lost. Nothing fancy. Where the streets are, street names, where I am, and the compass. I consider that one indispensable. Hate to leave home without it.
I activate it just before I gift it, so my loved one gets most of the remaining airtime. When they get it, it's all set up ready to call me. I'm already in the contacts list. So is the rest of the people I know about my loved one may want to call.
I just want to point out that these things do tell the network where they are as soon as you power them up. I suspect they internally use their IMEI number. Even if you don't have a phone number yet, or your service has expired.
I don't see anything particularly nefarious there. The system has to know where you are so it can route your calls to the correct cell tower.
I think that's how even out of service cellphones can still place emergency calls.
There is a big difference between the two "off" States of a phone. One just blanks the display; everything inside is still running fullbore. The other is when you usually hold the power button down for a few seconds and you get the menu and choose power down. It may take several minutes to wake back up. My own findings are that only the clock is still running. All the radio circuits look to be dead. However I cannot deny the existence of some ultralow power circuitry that may still be awake and do who knows what.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday April 17 2022, @07:52PM
Nobody can know where I am OR call me when it's shut off. Remember, I was almost 50 before I got my Motorola Star Tek. Unlike youth, I'm not a slave to my phone. Sometimes I just leave it home.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:57PM (34 children)
One need not be an atheist to know that the Abrahamic God is insane and/or evil if it exists. I'm not. I believe in God. Jews, Christians, and Muslims do not.
What you're describing is very common in the field of NDEs. Heaven and Hell as you are used to thinking of them do not exist, though you can certainly get yourself stuck in a Hellish state of existence and may need outside assistance to escape it. Also, NDEs draw content from the experiencer's religious and cultural background, and these can hybridize; I recall reading a case of a Christian missionary to Burma who had one in which servants of Lord Yama came to hunt him down and take him to the afterlife.
Your problem here is making the leap from "generically-not-atheism" to one of the modern versions of Christianity, which Jesus himself would not recognize. Indeed, he would not recognize the religion that existed a mere 50 years after his own death thanks to Saul of Tarsus' insane ramblings. I should also point out, again, that the earliest Church fathers were annihilationists or universalists aside from those who couldn't speak Greek. More of your religion is from Augustine and the Roman Empire, and far less from Jesus, than you know.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by nostyle on Thursday April 14 2022, @10:39PM (6 children)
Your assertions, while not without merit, do not eliminate the possiblity that a person might "hear" the "voice of God", and that this might be so inspiring and moving that it would make them a firm believer.
More curious, in my estimation, is the question of how one can "know" that it is in fact the voice of God, and not merely a mental malfunction. The wellspring of perception and thought remains largely unmapped and rather poorly understood, and there are even those who claim to be able to converse with dogs and cats, with departed spirits and, indeed, with angels.
I suppose this is why we have been given minds that can analyze and hearts that can empathize and imaginations that can sometimes see the end of things. Then if any divine inspiration should beset us, we can examine it and perhaps decide whether or not it is simple craziness.
If you do not hear the voice of God, it may be a good sign - that you are doing fine, and God does not need to straighten you out. Some, like me, though, need all the help we can get. YMMV.
--
"I heard it through the grapevine, and I'm just about to lose my mind" -Creedence Clearwater Revival
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 15 2022, @12:02AM (2 children)
The problem is one of epistemology; revelation is by definition private epistemology as there is no way you can convince anyone else of the truth of it. And there have been far too many One True Faiths among the One True Faith for me to take it seriously. You may very well hear the "voice of God," but you have no way of knowing if you truly have or not. Even to convince yourself, you need to get tautological inside your own skull.
Note that, as a panentheist (NOT pantheist, note the extra -en- infix!) this is not an issue for me, since by definition anything one hears is "the voice of God" in some way or another.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by nostyle on Friday April 15 2022, @12:31AM (1 child)
Okay, way off-topic here, but...
I'm wondering how a panentheist views the conflict in Ukraine. Is God arguing within Himself? No,... seriously!
--
"There's nothing you can know that isn't known" - Lennon/McCartney, All You Need Is Love
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 15 2022, @12:45AM
God isn't a "person" the way you or I think of the term. More like the starting material for, and ground of being of, consciousness itself. So this isn't God arguing at all.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Friday April 15 2022, @12:24AM (2 children)
I'll know it's God when he gives me next week's Lotto numbers.
200 million years is actually quite a long time.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday April 15 2022, @03:48AM
Well, I can give you next week's Lotto numbers next week. Does that mean, next week I'll be God? :-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday April 17 2022, @07:48PM
When you pray for money, you're praying to Satan.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @11:38PM (13 children)
> One need not be an atheist to know that the Abrahamic God is insane and/or evil if it exists.
Nah you can be an occultist of many flavor(s) and hold this blasphemous opinion. IT'S BORING.
What a shame, for most occultists, especially those of the LHP variety, to have the Christian God living in their heads rent free and do nothing but spew ugliness at/about Him.
Just remember, God forgives. It may take you a few years or on your death bed but keep that in mind.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 14 2022, @11:59PM (8 children)
Deflection doesn't make it untrue, snowflake.
Let me spell this out for you: a truly omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent etc etc etc etc being DOES NOT HAVE ENEMIES. Why does Yahweh have enemies, enemies against whom he appears to be preparing for a war with? Because he's an ancient Near-Eastern holdover whose theology got muddled with Zoroastrian and Greek ideas over the span of 600+ years.
Also? Demanding worship makes you unworthy of it by definition. If you can't understand why, you are not equipped to participate in this conversation. Do not cross me, boy; I've forgotten more about (counter)apologetics than you will ever learn or know.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @12:12AM (7 children)
> Do not cross me, boy; I've forgotten more about (counter)apologetics than you will ever learn or know.
Of course! All or most of the vocal Atheists/Occultists are well read. And maybe some of them used to be Christians as well and now use what they've learned against believers.
This comes as no surprise, one only need to look in /r/atheists to see it's full of such garbage.
It must suck to have the Christian God living in your head 24/7 rent free and all you can do is hate. What a waste of life/time! Oh, but they love to debate. Such a shame.
Glory be to Our Lord Jesus Christ, The Father, and The Holy Spirit.
Just remember, God forgives. It may take you a few years or maybe even your final breaths, but He forgives.
The more people who oppose Him, especially in popular media, using Christ's name incorrectly, the more occultists who fight online, the stronger my faith becomes.
---
I am the walrus that your Dad warned about.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 15 2022, @12:47AM (2 children)
So do you have any actual counterargument, or are you just going to sit there jacking off in public? Honestly, if I were your God, I'd drop you into Hell for making me look bad. Inept witnesses are poison to the spread of a religion, and even Augustine of Hippo said as much.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @12:57AM
I don't entertain "arguments" online. As I said, I find such behavior sad and a complete waste of time. I feel it's more valuable to love the other person, rather than to argue. My ego has been obliterated a long time ago. "No longer I but Christ who lives within me. This poverty, a treasure rich beyond compare" - JMT
Your atheist/occult buddies can mod down my posts all they like, it still does not shatter the truth of God.
Please let what I said sink in, you may not acknowledge this now but in the future you just may.
God Bless you!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @05:06AM
Get over yourself, troll.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @05:00AM (3 children)
It's actually: /r/atheism/ and yup it's full of creepy people who are obsessed with God, even if they deny Him.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 15 2022, @04:20PM (2 children)
And while we're at it, what's with all those creepy doctors and nurses and healthcare workers obsessed with disease and sickness and medicine? Creeeeeepy.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 17 2022, @11:08PM (1 child)
> And while we're at it, what's with all those creepy doctors and nurses and healthcare workers obsessed with disease and sickness and medicine? Creeeeeepy.
Yup, so when I need an enema next time I'll be sure and book an appointment with the good occultists at /r/atheism.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 20 2022, @08:32PM
Buddy, if you ever had an enema they'd be able to bury what remains of you in an Altoids tin...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @12:16AM (3 children)
> One need not be an atheist to know that the Abrahamic God is insane and/or evil if it exists.
Nah! You can be an occultist of many flavor(s) and hold this blasphemous opinion. IT'S BORING.
What a shame, for most occultists, especially those of the LHP variety, to have the Christian God living in their heads rent free and do nothing but spew ugliness at/about Him.
Just remember, God forgives. It may take you a few years or on your death bed but keep that in mind.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 15 2022, @12:46AM (1 child)
It wasn't any truer the first time you posted this. Exact dupes, per the rules, are spam. Go away, you're starting to smell like APK.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @01:06AM
> Exact dupes, per the rules, are spam
Exact dupes are impossible as it will give you a warning that the same post has been made already, so I alter them slightly so they will go through.
> Go away, you're starting to smell like APK.
God loves you.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @12:51AM
>> One need not be an atheist to know that the Abrahamic God is insane and/or evil if it exists.
Nah! You can be an occultist of many flavor(s) and hold this blasphemous opinion. IT'S BORING.
What a shame, for most occultists, especially those of the LHP variety, to have the Christian God living in their heads rent free and do nothing but spew ugliness at/about Him.
Just remember, God forgives. It may take you a few years or on your death bed but keep that in mind.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 15 2022, @05:45AM
I expected this story to spark a religious debate; what I didn't expect was to find myself somewhat agreeing with Azuma as a result.
I wish NDEs made more sense. Unfortunately, it seems to be that what any individual person sees has more to do with their own perspectives than with any universal truth. If everyone who had a NDE had the same kind of experience, that wouldn't quite be proof, but it would be a good point in favor of whatever religion it resembled. But they just aren't consistent, even if you exclude the obviously fake ones ("23 minutes in hell", etc).
Not sure I follow here. Do you think that God is good but the common teachings about God are wrong, or that God is actually evil but you are a believer anyway? Because I have only heard that second one as a counter-apologetic thought experiment, and from neo-Gnostics, which, I suppose, you might be. But +10 of some kind of internet points if that's actually your position!
Well, uh. I certainly agree that Christians have diverged dramatically from what Jesus taught. Of course, it's been 2000 years and Jesus himself never bothered to explain just which of his teachings were supposed to apply to non-Jews, because most of what he talked about was rooted in Jewish law. So the confusion is certainly understandable. But as I started to study not only Christianity but also the Jewish and Israelite cultures that gave rise to it, I realized that God doesn't want anyone to have simple answers. And, in fact, most of the excesses and abuses of religion come from people who think there are, or should be, simple answers to everything. One of the reasons I'm a believer is that God always seems to be three steps ahead of any question that comes up.
Judaism itself has changed over the past 3000+ years, although a lot less than most religions would have over a similar time period.
Well, uh. What ramblings are you talking about exactly? Paul only wrote about half of the stuff that is traditionally attributed to him, and what I've found is that the authentic writings of Paul are good, and the other ones are the ones that contain all the nonsense. I can't really even call them forged; writing in someone else's name wasn't unusual at the time. While the Pauline-not-Pauline writings provide valuable insight into Christianity of the late 1st century, I personally do not consider them "inspired." There are apocryphal books which I would consider more relevant.
Even Paul's anti-homosexuality verses are better understood once you realize that in the context in which he was writing, homosexuality was synonymous with sexual slavery, usually of children, and this context is apparent in the original Greek (and completely erased in English translations). I'm not accusing the translators of an agenda here, necessarily, it's just a nuance that doesn't come through in the translation. Today's concept of a consenting, loving gay relationship would have been completely alien to Paul, and it certainly wasn't what he was writing about.
The fact that conservative Christians ignore the cultural context and original understanding of the Bible in favor of their own biases, while progressive Christians ignore the plain meaning of the Bible text in favor of their own biases, is a source of constant frustration to me.
Yes. This is part of why I'm an annihilationist - it seems to be the closest to the original meaning. I wish universalism was true, but I don't think it is. If it is true, though, God is definitely having a chuckle at our expense!
Eternal hell was not exactly invented by the Romans, but I'm sure it became the dominant position because it's the most useful doctrine for a state religion to keep the peasants in line. Don't question the king or the priests, or you'll burn in hell for eternity! This is the same reason Catholics are against birth control. It's every woman's duty to birth the next generation of Roman legionnaires! Then the Romans and their legions went away but the doctrine stuck around.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday April 17 2022, @07:54PM (11 children)
One need not be an atheist to know that the Abrahamic God is insane and/or evil if it exists.
Do your computer programs think that about you? Pretty damned arrogant to believe you can out think a being powerful enough to create an entire universe.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 20 2022, @08:40PM (10 children)
Not in the least, Mr. McGrew :) In fact, the more powerful and intelligent this supposed creator is, the more evil it would have to be to allow a given amount of needless suffering!
Let me ask you this: the usual rationale for the existence of evil, or sin if you insist, is that free will is this creator God's highest good, i.e., it will tolerate sin for the sake of free will. Those who have not used their free will according to this God's wishes will, apparently, spend all eternity on fire, and those who have will...er...spend all eternity...telling this God how awesome it is?
Anyway, the crux of the free will defense is this. And this is also its fatal flaw: it assumed that in heaven there is around as much, if not more, free will, but no sin. What, then, is the reason for this? Let's write out the four possibilities:
1) There is free will in heaven but no sin
2) There is free will in heaven and there is also sin
3) There is no free will in heaven but also no sin
4) There is no free will in heaven but there is, somehow, sin.
Which of these is the truth?
Now, obviously example 4 is ridiculous on the face of it. Option 3 invalidates the free will theodicy outright. Option 2 is not something any Christian wants to cop to. That leaves you with option 1.
But wait, if there's free will here and free will in heaven, why is there sin here and no sin in heaven? Huh...whatever the reason is, it's not free will. It's something that, by definition, is outside of free will. Looks like the difference is the surrounding environment. Soooo, the obvious question then to ask is "why did this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being not simple create only heaven and populate it with beings as free-willed as it wishes?"
Or, drilling down even further, since the existence of heaven proves that there is no inherent tendency toward evil/sin in free will (contra Calvin et. al), it is on this God-figure that sin exists at all.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Thursday April 21 2022, @03:58PM (1 child)
It's so rare to find someone who truly thinks about religion along these lines -- applying logic to theology. Thank you. It's a breath of fresh air that I'm rarely privy to.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday April 21 2022, @08:11PM
You're very welcome, but it seems like it's falling on deaf ears. The people who most need this do not, as the not-so-good book says, have ears to hear.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday April 24 2022, @07:06PM (7 children)
Let me ask you this: the usual rationale for the existence of evil, or sin if you insist, is that free will is this creator God's highest good, i.e., it will tolerate sin for the sake of free will.
I'm not sure what god you're referring to, but it isn't the Judeo-Christian God, who punished the hell out of his chosen people. Is it evil to burn a book you have personally written? Or a better example, a self-portrait?
I just finished reading the entire King James cover to cover, and free will (and a lot of other things ascribed to that tome) wasn't exactly spelled out.
As to your free will four answer question, the Christian Bible says we are all polluted with evil, which will affect you as strongly as any drug. When we die, the wheat is separated from the chaff, the dross from the silver; the evil parts of you die and only the good parts reach heaven.
The trouble with discussing religion is which religion? The Buddhists and Hindus have reincarnation and Karma, the Abrahamic religions don't. Christianity has forgiveness, the Buddhists and Hindus are punished for their evil, even to the point of undergoing the pain of birth again. I can't discuss Islam, because I'm ignorant. I know a little about Buddhism because I was stationed in a Buddhist country when I was in the Air Force. I have a lot of respect for those Pagans, who worship life and will scold you for swatting a mosquito.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday April 26 2022, @03:12AM (6 children)
You used a lot of words to say sod-all and completely avoid the questions I asked you. You're not lacking in brainpower based on your past posts, nor do you appear to be schizophrenic or otherwise detached from consensus reality.
So why can't you give me straight answers here?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday April 29 2022, @01:10PM (5 children)
You used a lot of words to say sod-all
And it's obvious you didn't read a single one of them.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday May 01 2022, @07:49AM (4 children)
Oh, but I did, and I want those few minutes of my life back.
McGrew, it's a long-standing irony that unbelievers take your God and its supposed capabilities and properties far, far more seriously than believers do. Explore them all to their logical conclusions, and you will find that the world as we have it -- indeed, ANY "possible world" that consists of ANYTHING but the said God itself -- produces a contradiction.
Can you see why?
One big reason is that anything not-God is by definition less than perfect. Another is that divine aseity (you DO know what this means, don't you...? No Googling!) entails that there is nothing that could produce a more perfect or better state of affairs than the presumably eternal primordial epoch in which reality consisted of God alone and nothing else.
This also means that any of your excuses for the problem of evil, anything along the lines of "God wants X" or "God values $THING," are not only internally inconsistent, they're BLASPHEMOUS. Nothing can, by definition, be added to, removed from, set side by side with, or otherwise brought into any sort of conjunction with God and cause a net increase in perfection. The existence of ANYTHING but your God is instantly and globally fatal to your entire religion.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday May 01 2022, @07:09PM (3 children)
You're trying to convince someone who's seen a giraffe that giraffes can't possibly exist.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday May 03 2022, @01:58AM (2 children)
No I'm not. I'm trying to convince someone who for some reason believes that two jackasses in a googly-eyed giraffe suit are actually a giraffe. Yahweh doesn't meet the criteria for what it is to BE God, and a little historical and anthropological research into the Ancient Near East shows why.
I'm not an atheist. Ironically, between the two of us, *you* are closer to being an atheist than I am, because you are worshiping something that doesn't actually have the properties and attributes you insist it does.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday May 03 2022, @06:13PM (1 child)
The only properties and attributes are His answer to my question, "Which way?" The reply was "Neither, it's not your time yet, there's something very important you need to do. Turn around and go towards the light."
Note that there were no golden gates, and the openings, which I assumed went to heaven and hell, were nothing like I have ever imagined, and that going towards the light is NOT mentioned in the Christian Bible. Secular accounts have the light leading to heaven, but the light led back to the wreckage, horrible pain, and sickness.
I might add that my fiancee was bloody and not even breathing. I prayed again, for her to not be dead, and she took a deep breath and started screaming the most horrible scream I've ever heard.
Believe whatever you wish. Experience trumps belief.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday May 04 2022, @03:23AM
This is not belief, McGrew. Quit muddling the issues. I have no doubt that you experienced what you say you did, and you're not alone; NDEs are and always have been extremely common.
Your problem is that you are taking this experience and reflexively casting it in light of your spoon-fed religious beliefs...beliefs which, on actual examination and inspection, are shown to be both internally inconsistent and incompatible with observable reality. Do you get it now? Your concepts of what God, the "afterlife" (note the scare quotes, because we don't actually die...), etc truly are, are cultural baggage. They are too small, too selfish, and too narrow to encompass either human experience or the divine itself.
Again: I am not telling someone who has seen a giraffe that giraffes don't exist. I am telling someone who saw a giraffe that he's equating said giraffe with two jackasses in a giant googly-eyed Muppet suit he saw on TV as a kid. Yahweh does not meet the criteria for what it is to BE God and his evolution can be traced rather easily back to the ancient Near East, specifically the city and cult center of Ugarit.
...and your willful denials don't change this any more than, to borrow from an equally vacuous thinker CS Lewis, a lunatic can blow out the sun by scribbling "night" on the walls of his padded cell.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Thursday April 14 2022, @07:26PM
Valid point, but I would counter that unlike an implanted chip with a cell phone I can :
Turn it off
leave it at home
put it in a foil bag to hide it easily
loan it to someone else
surrender it to a mugger and avoid injury.
easily replace or upgrade the device if it becomes unsupported, damaged, or compromised.
While chips have advantages there is a trade off. If your ID/wallet is inside your body then taking that part of your body becomes a valid option for anyone who wants either of those. I've alerady read stories about the Russian Mafia cutting off peoples hands because they needed the victims fingerprints.
The rang depends on the strength of the activation signal and the sensitivity of the receiver. With the right hardware I could probably read several of your chips from 3-4 meters away. And since your chips are passive you and others would be none the wiser. If I set up a custom reader and make small transactions using your Walletmor chip as you and others walked by my van during the day. Would you notice an extra periodic US$2-3.00 charge on your statement? Once enough people have chips it will be worth the effort to set that up.
100% false. They can and do track you. They are just like cell phones in that regard. They just give people a false sense of security since they don't do it as obviously.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Funny) by Gaaark on Thursday April 14 2022, @08:31PM
Just wondering if i could get an RFID reader small enough to implant into MY right hand: then i could shake hands with you and ALL YOUR BASES ARE BELONG TO ME!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHH...erp....ewww...just threw up into my mouth a bit and then breathed on you...sorry about that.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @11:12PM
> As for those who object to implants on religious ground, well all I have to say to you is, fuck you, stay in your corner and quit polluting our future with your nonsensical beliefs invented by ancient Palestine sheperds.
AFAIK, those "shepherds" were filled with the Holy Spirit. And look where we are now and what was foretold.
Poor atheists/satanists/occultists, having the Christian God living in their head 24/7, rend free, and all they can do is piss away time shouting against Him.
(Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:36PM
No.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:38PM (5 children)
I would love to shake that persons hand to congratulate then, over and over, until their account is drained...
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:03PM (2 children)
Good luck hiding that payment terminal in the palm of your hand while you shake his.
Also, implants like the Walletmor require precise positioning over the terminal's antenna to couple properly - a skill all implantees quickly learn - and his Walletmor is on the back of his hand. Implants are never implanted under gripping surfaces. So you'll have to shake the back of his hand with your hidden terminal, and do so at a very precise spot.
I'm certain he won't notice at all...
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Thursday April 14 2022, @07:29PM
I'll only need the essential chips out of a terminal, and I'll pretend I have a very swollen hand. Then I will grasp theirs with both hands pretending I'm a freemason of some sort.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @08:05PM
Isn't the precision requirement a consequence of power and design choices in the terminal? Put it in a larger field with better receiving antennas and I'm sure you can read it more accurately and from further away.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:29PM
Don't overplay your hand.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @10:11PM
It's been my experience that those who love to shake your hand are after your Money.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:39PM
This crap is probably thought up by cell phone companies trying to make stupid smart phone payment systems look good.
What the hell is wrong with just having a chip in a credit card? Won't have to worry about someone cutting your hand off. A lot of cards? Hell if the chips themselves are small enough, have a single card that can hold multiple chips. Or even store them in a slot in a cell phone if that is what turns you on, although it seems like smart phones can already emulate such chips - still infinitely more secure to keep the two seperate. Absolutely no need to require people to buy a toy smart phone or certain kind of smart phone just to make a simple payment.
(Score: 2) by hopdevil on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:39PM
It sounds like the problem to solve is how can we convince more consumers to use one payment provider over another. It is basically a credit/debit card in a different form factor.
These things will be tracking the shit out of you just like paying with plastic (there is no fundamental difference). They won't locally contain personal data, it will just be a number they can look up in their database (hopefully with some cryptography involved) that has all the necessary information and tracking capability.
I don't find cash to be all that inconvenient.. I guess checking if someone got the change right is slightly more work. But if privacy is at all important to you, and it should be, there really is only one option.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:41PM
I had a CrystaLens implanted in my left eye, replacing its lens, in 2006. The lens had become occluded with a cataract. The CrystaLens was just approved by the FDA in 2003 and removes any need for corrective lenses, nearsightedness (I use to wear very thick glasses until I got contacts in 2002), farsightedness (including age-related, everyone gets this in their 40s), astigmatism, and cataracts. Insurance won't pay except for cataracts, not sure about other countries with single payer.
Having my other eye done soon. Yes, that makes me a cyborg, but you know what?
I don't need an implant to buy groceries. It's like paying for a gaming rig when all you use a computer for is surfing the web; it's just a status symbol. And I have four credit cards, how do I choose where the payment comes from? And what happens when one expires?
Yet another completely unneeded technology, much like Bitchcoin.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Lester on Thursday April 14 2022, @05:51PM (2 children)
I can't see it more convenient than a target or a mobile phone.
Why should I be marked like a dog?
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:42PM
Because you are a property, you just do not realize it yet. Keep voting.
Rust programming language offends both my Intelligence and my Spirit.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:44PM
You should be marked like a dog so your corporate masters can keep proper track of you. And you will obey, because anyone who questions the greater good of record profits this quarter is a cryptocommieterrorfascist.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by rigrig on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:42PM (1 child)
€200 for a single NFC-chip seems a bit steep, but I guess that's just early adopter pricing.
More worrying to me is the whole lock-in to a single "totally free" Digital Wallet provider.
No one remembers the singer.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:47PM
Just wait until this is required by law for ID. Because only criminals use cards that can be stolen or faked.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday April 14 2022, @06:48PM (1 child)
So how does he swipe his hand in the machine when it fails to read the chip? A lot of cards still come with both the chip and the strip for such events.
Also a card is normally not valid, or was not back in ye olden days, unless you signed it on the back. But these days nobody cares and I don't think I have done or been asked to do that in ages. After all it's a thing of the past and now there are other identifiers such as your pincode, the cv2 etc. But technically I think you are supposed to sign your cards with your name for some legal mumbo jumbo reasons.
Still if I wanted to I'm sure I could take my card, carefully take it apart and remove the chip and insert it into almost anything. Apparently this would then amuse cashiers everywhere. Then create my own thing, I could put it in a little ball of plastic and put it on my keychain or whatever.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hopdevil on Thursday April 14 2022, @07:17PM
I always write "SEE ID" in the signature block on the back of cards. I've been asked quite a few times, actually.. but not in the last few years
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14 2022, @08:10PM
Financial technology expert Theodora Lau asks "How much are we willing to pay, for the sake of convenience?"
That answer is obvious in all the pollution around us.
We are willing to pay anything for convenience.
Now we only have to make masturbation gestures for some more of it.