From Reuters' coverage of NRC Handelsblad's interview with ASML's CEO Peter Wennink regarding U.S. export restrictions on China:
following U.S. pressure, the Dutch government has already restricted ASML from exporting its most advanced lithography machines to China since 2019, something he said has benefited U.S. companies selling alternative technology.
He said that while 15% of ASML's sales are in China, at U.S. chip equipment suppliers "it is 25 or sometimes more than 30%".
Wennink said it seemed contradictory that U.S. chip manufacturers are able to sell their most advanced chips to Chinese customers, while ASML is only able to sell older chipmaking equipment.
Meanwhile, "it is common knowledge that chip technology for purely military applications is usually 10, 15 years old. (Yet) the technology used to make such chips can still be sold to China," he added.
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Netherlands refuses to summarily agree to US export restrictions on China over silicon chips.:
The United States of America has requested a number of countries in Europe and Asia to impose sanctions on Chinese chip manufacturing firms. One of these, the Netherlands, has come out and put a statement saying that they will not summarily accept new US restrictions on exporting chip-making technology to China, and is consulting with European and Asian allies.
The Dutch Trade Minister Liesje Schreinemacher on Sunday said that he expects the Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte to discuss export policy with President Joe Biden when Prime Minister Rutte visits the US.
In effect though, the Netherlands has stopped ASML Holding from shipping its most advanced machines to China and is only allowing them to sell machinery and technology that were made before 2019.
The Dutch government has denied ASML permission to ship its most advanced machines to China since 2019 following a pressure campaign by the Trump administration, but ASML did sell 2 billion euros worth of older machines to China in 2021.
The US took action in October to limit China's capacity to produce its own chips, and US trade officials stated at the time that they anticipated the Netherlands and Japan to follow suit soon. ASML has said that should the rules proposed by the US come into play, it could impact roughly 5 per cent of its group sales.
Previously: Dutch Chip Equipment Maker ASML's CEO Questions U.S. Export Rules on China
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Saturday December 17 2022, @06:24PM (2 children)
This is either the last gasp of a dying empire's assumed control over the first world, or it will crush China's economy, and move towards a war of desperation. There's no in between.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @08:36PM (1 child)
> There's no in between.
There are plenty of in betweens. We'll likely keep muddling through https://www.jstor.org/stable/973677 [jstor.org]
There currently seems to be a good chance that China will keep shooting themselves in the feet over Covid. It will be interesting to see what their next set of rules look like, since the sudden switch from "zero covid" to the current relaxation looks like it has overflowed the hospitals.
More?
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Monday December 19 2022, @04:02PM
I understand the principle you're desciribing here, but I think it doesn't apply because there's human motivations for the extreme paths this time.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday December 17 2022, @06:43PM (13 children)
The Dutch government should be able to tell the US to fuck right off with their demands. Eventually the world will get tired of the US bullying everybody around, and eventually the US will find itself isolated to fight their petty wars. But that day isn't tomorrow and in the meantime, they're dragging everybody who's not interested in petty wars with them.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RamiK on Saturday December 17 2022, @07:24PM (10 children)
To be fair, the US is backing the EU and Ukraine against Russia so there's a bit of a tradeoff there.
Regardless, when I posted the story my focus was on the fact the export rules aren't targeting military grade silicon. Combined with how the CHIPs act is also focused on high-end chips instead of incentivizing low-end fabs, it seems pretty clear the whole thing just ended up as a golden parachute for Intel & co..
More practically speaking, seeing how the Russian sanctions aren't working, I doubt export rules on China will.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @08:30PM (2 children)
> seeing how the Russian sanctions aren't working
They aren't? I thought the sanctions on Russia were working OK (not great, just OK). Shutting down trade doesn't have immediate effects, and in the meantime, Russia is finding alternate suppliers--like Iran for drones.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday December 17 2022, @09:43PM (1 child)
Nope: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/ukraine-crisis-russia-tech-middlemen/ [reuters.com]
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18 2022, @03:49AM
Good link. That about matches what I expected when I wrote that the sanctions were just working OK. For example, the sanctions on other parts of the economy like the movement and foreign investments of oligarchs may be doing better than the chip sanctions?
While it looks like Russia is still getting a lot of chips through the gray market, they are probably paying through the nose for all the middlemen. Oddly the link didn't say anything about the end user costs in Russia.
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Saturday December 17 2022, @11:53PM (3 children)
To be fair, the US is encouraging Europe to spend more on American weapons, to expand NATO to increase American influence, and to hurt themselves economically to make themselves less competitive against American exports.
With backers like that, who needs enemies.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Sunday December 18 2022, @01:00AM
Military backing for preferential rates in trade and an alliance in a trade war is fair deal.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18 2022, @07:11PM
As long as you have enough wars to make the deal fair and balanced.
(Score: 2) by gnuman on Monday December 19 2022, @04:53PM
At the same time they don't like Europe making European Army and buying/making weapons as a block and this is exactly what is starting to happen. I guess that is one thing they agree with Russia on?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/15/eu-purchase-weapons-jointly-step-towards-military-integration/ [telegraph.co.uk]
I thought Russia was doing this all by itself? You did realize that NATO was on life-support before this Putin's Special Adventure in the Neighbourhood?
I think you missed the entire thing with Putin's war against Ukraine. Maybe Biden told Putin to start that war too to weaken Russia, make NATO relevant again, accelerate EU's migration away from fossil fuels and allow China to have another economic satellite state?
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday December 18 2022, @01:09AM (2 children)
You do realize that a big part of the reason why Putin chose to invade the Ukraine is because he's feeling cornered by an expanding US-backed NATO right?
Meaning most likely the whole Ukraine disaster wouldn't have happened in the first place without the US' imperialistic moves in Europe.
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Sunday December 18 2022, @02:27AM (1 child)
The Russians been trying to put the bloc back together since it fell apart as they stabilized their economy. They took over Chechnya first. Moved against Georgia 2nd. And then started working on Ukraine. If NATO and the US is at fault at anything, it's dragging their heels since 2004 and especially around 2008 ( yet another gift-that-keeps-on-giving from the Bush administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations#Presidency_of_Viktor_Yanukovych_(2010–2014) [wikipedia.org] ) when they blocked Georgia and Ukraine from entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#Adriatic_Charter [wikipedia.org]
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(Score: 2) by RamiK on Sunday December 18 2022, @02:33AM
p.s. mixed up the anchor in first link. It's this part:
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations#Bucharest_summit:_2008–2009 [wikipedia.org] )
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(Score: 2) by quietus on Sunday December 18 2022, @11:54AM (1 child)
Bullying, eh kiddo? To date, only the export of ASML's EUV lithography machines is forbidden, and that didn't happen because the US said-so. What happened, if you read the original interview, is that the Dutch government simply didn't take a decision to allow the export to China. Let me spell it out clearly for you: long before this happened, the Dutch government already considered ASML's produce to be of key (strategic) value, bound to export restrictions cf. advanced military technology.
As to those export restrictions for key technology, the general rule is: permitted to NATO/EU countries; anything else needs to come before committee. You will now argue that NATO is the fiefdom of the United States, conveniently forgetting the run-up to the Second Iraq War, and overlooking the Mali war. So there's that.
What remains is that China attempted to divide the EU through its 17+1 initiative, is regarded as a systemic competitor by the EU, which has forbidden any strategic Chinese investments since the start of covid, and now has put into place a carbon border tax -- considered the nuclear option [against China] back in 2020.
Maybe, I don't know, the EU being responsible for external commercial relations and all, might have a hand in blocking the export of ASML's EUV lithography machines?
(Score: 2) by gnuman on Monday December 19 2022, @04:43PM
Please read at least TFS
1. it's nothing to do about military - it's about economics
2. military uses older tech anyway
3. export controls are to prevent China from being economic leader
This is done because US doesn't like latest tech going to China but to them instead. So they abuse the security provisions where many believe it's "military" while in reality it's economic security.
Recently, the example is with Russia. There is more than enough "leakage" in the economic domain that Russia will get enough chips for their military. Even North Korea manages that. But the embargoes will definitely cripple the economy. You can definitely get 100s or even 1000s of chips for cruise missiles or other equipment. But you cannot get millions you need for economic development.
The caveat is radiation hardened chips -- those and other niche chips are kind of more difficult to acquire and Russia couldn't get them even before Crimea. Bit if you can make do with commercial versions and can make do with general chips, you are golden.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday December 17 2022, @07:06PM
ASML to US: "We want more money. Stop trying to stop us from getting more money."
A remarkably high percentage of statements made in public amount to either that or "Please help us make more money."
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.