Job seekers in the era of 'social impact framing' are afraid to ask for higher pay:
For many companies today, recruiting employees includes luring them with job postings that tout the organization's altruistic goals, such as to "make an impact" or fulfill a mission or purpose that benefits the greater good.
Appealing to job seekers' altruism isn't just for nonprofits anymore. Both for-profit and nonprofit organizations increasingly employ what has been termed "social impact framing" that emphasizes that their work has welfare benefits for society.
Although companies might have entirely noble intentions when using social impact framing, a recent study by Texas McCombs Assistant Professor of Management Insiya Hussain illustrates how it may work against prospective employees during salary negotiations. Specifically, job candidates exposed to such messaging feel it would be against company norms to ask for higher pay.
"This speaks to a broader social phenomenon about how we view money when it comes to doing good," Hussain says. "There's an implicit assumption that money and altruism don't mix. Money taints attempts to do good. Even if job candidates might not necessarily subscribe to this view, they're assuming that hiring managers will."
[...] The research suggests job applicants might experience a fearful thought process around salary: "I can't even ask. I feel like if I ask, it might be held against me or against the norms of the organization. It might be seen as greedy," Hussain says, paraphrasing the job seekers.
The researchers describe this attitude as a "self-censoring" effect, which Hussain says is a novel finding for research on social impact framing and wage demands. Prior work assumed that candidates sacrificed pay for meaningful work. Hussain and colleagues show this effect may be driven by job candidates feeling uncomfortable with such negotiation.
That mindset was true across the age spectrum and several industries, including education, financial services, food manufacturing, and health care — in both nonprofit and for-profit businesses.
[...] "Job seekers could consider whether companies that stress social impact take care of their own employees — financially or otherwise." Hussain says. "And, companies shouldn't assume that extrinsically motivated workers don't care about the job and aren't willing to work hard to perform well."
Journal Reference:
Insiya Hussain et al., Pay Suppression in Social Impact Contexts: How Framing Work Around the Greater Good Inhibits Job Candidate Compensation Demands, INFORMS, 2023. https://doi.org/10.1287/orsc.2023.1675
(Score: 5, Insightful) by RedGreen on Wednesday June 14 2023, @11:21AM (4 children)
the parasite corporation or supposed non-profit tell you. The ones at the top are making big fat salaries and you should settled for nothing less than a big fat salary yourself. Don't let them trick you with the we care about the world garbage help us by getting less than you are worth, they are in it for themselves for the most part and are not making a sacrifice on their money received.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 14 2023, @12:25PM (1 child)
It's worth mentioning: If the organization is a non-profit or publicly traded company, how much the top brass are making is frequently public record, included in shareholder reports and IRS or SEC filings that they're required by law to disclose. With non-profits, you can often look over the entire budget. If they're spending more on executive per diems than they're offering you, then no, they aren't broke.
There are some legitimately impoverished non-profits out there who care more about the mission than big bucks. Their leaders make modest salaries, basically the bare minimum to survive, and that's why they expect people who work for them to do the same. I've known some people that fit that description over my life, and their lives are definitely not easy. They spend more time on carrying out the mission of the non-profit than wheedling big donations from rich people at cocktail parties and such, and are keenly aware that the people donating to them are often poorer than they are. But I've also encountered people who make far more money for themselves pretending to be these sorts of leaders, so yeah, read the reports as part of your pre-interview research.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 14 2023, @12:41PM
A publicly traded company I worked for had a rather schizofrenic CEO compensation schedule. In good times he drew $300K salary. In bad times he drew $0 salary, but made more than $300K/yr through high interest loans to the company and discount stock purchase plans - basically instead of drawing money the company didn't have, he drew money from the market in exchange for keeping the company afloat...
On the topic of "getting paid what you're worth" - a certain amount of reading the room is definitely necessary. I "got paid what I was worth" in a smaller, lower paid, market but it was painful because the companies in that market were unstable, went through frequent downsizings, and the last hired with the fat salary certainly wasn't the last let go. Finally, I moved to a market where my salary was lower than they expected instead of higher and all of a sudden the benefits, bonuses and raises started flowing like water.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Freeman on Wednesday June 14 2023, @06:26PM (1 child)
It's taken me a long time to get how the world works. When it comes to business and working for any organization. You need to look out for your own interests. While you may have an immediate supervisor that is good. They are very likely to not have the clout to get you what you should have. Sometimes, the only thing you can do to improve is to move on. Not that I have in nearly 20 years, but do as I say not as I do and all that.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by turgid on Saturday June 17 2023, @09:02AM
You're not wrong. Last year I had to fight really hard for someone in my team who had been misjudged by management. The guy had gone way above and beyond. He worked early mornings, nights, weekends, everything, to rescue a project we inherited which was a train wreck. His wife gave birth during all this, and it put a huge strain on their marriage. Fortunately, we got the project done and his marriage survived. However, more senior people in the company just didn't appreciate the level of effort and expertise this guy put in. They just saw someone stressed out, no sense of humour and unwilling to entertain their simplistic requests for information because he really had not time to sit around in meetings.
Anyway, I got an enormous (by my standards) pay rise. One of his peers (not working on the project) got a good one. He got a mediocre one and was very upset, understandably. His mental health was in the toilet (so was mine, but that's another story) and I started fighting back to get the recognition he deserved at CxO level, including with the company head of HR. It took many months, but they eventually gave him an extra pay rise, putting him where he should have been in the first place.
By then it was too late, he had a job offer with a competitor for even more money and off he went and hasn't looked back.
He made the right choice. The company is in a terrible state and management seem completely oblivious. I'll be going too.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 14 2023, @12:35PM
As a fresh-out, no experience in the field, MSEE holder applying to a job advertising for a BS or better, I bid the BS salary to get hired.
After a few months working for the company, I'm convinced I made the right call - man who interviewed me and made the hiring decision was a cheap bastard. Higher ups not so much. Once the higher ups got to know me better I made an offhand comment that I am working for 20% under market, and received a 23% raise the next day.
That's a small company environment, in the bigger company you have to have stronger situational antennae. When I got wind that HR was dangling a promotion from my level to the next one up in a (failed) attempt to retain a disgruntled minority employee at my level, that's when I went to my manager and made the case that I should have been hired in at that level in the first place, and he went and made the case to HR, and since they did have the open budget for such a promotion (and no minorities they could retain with it) they gave it to him to give to me.
Flip-side, I was the hiring manager at a smaller company, we made two new hires "BS or better" at BS salaries, one was a PhD but he said "oh, you'll see the value soon enough." Six months later we were (quietly) looking at potentially downsizing by one in the coming months, and he had a (loud) personal crisis of confidence in his work, then he turned around and demanded a raise from $45K to $80K. I told him "you're fine, don't worry about the optimization you missed, half a dozen PhDs before you missed it too, but now is not the time for a raise," but he insisted "$80K or I quit." Well, that makes my downsizing decision a whole lot easier...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Funny) by sjames on Wednesday June 14 2023, @02:27PM (1 child)
The difference between a whore and a corporation is there are some things a whore won't do for money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 14 2023, @04:02PM
Then you have not met the right once or paid enough.
(Score: 4, Informative) by SingularityPhoenix on Wednesday June 14 2023, @07:54PM (1 child)
Oh, it is greedy to want more money, but the company is making more off employees work than what they're paying them (if they're profitable). What I mean is its ok to want better compensation. Trying to get a raise might be held against you...if you go about it in the wrong way. But there are right ways to go about it.
Research: First off, do your research. What are people in similar positions with similar amounts of experience making? There are websites with ranges. Discuss pay with colleagues. Broach the topic softly, feel out if people are willing to discuss it. Understand if you're asking for information, you have to be willing to give information too. Easiest place is when someone leaves the company for whatever reason, ask them what they were making. Don't cause drama, nobody likes that. You don't deserve anything, you have to negotiate for it, or go find it.
Asking: If you're undercompensated, bring it up. Performance reviews are the easiest place to do this, they literally set up the meeting to discuss your performance and compensation. Ask what you can do to progress. Don't be pushy, but express you might start looking. Bring up specific reasons why you should be worth more. Additional responsibilities you've taken on, performance increases you can back up with numbers, market research (don't bring up conversations with coworkers) from reputable sources. Show why you're valuable to them in terms of what they value. If you are underpaid and valuable and they know it, they will come through (promises are worth the contract they're written in). Probably they won't come through and you will need to look externally to your current employer. You don't need to hide you're looking, but don't be in-your-face about it either. Any competent manager will know that an employee who is looking, will leave, if they get a better offer.
Applying: When looking for a job, the wider you can cast your net, the more opportunities you will find. Something isn't the best fit, well then you won't accept unless they give you a better offer. It is a bunch of work to apply, and interview. Job postings open and close all the time, spending a little time on it every day is more efficient.
Resume: Have a master resume with everything on it, then read job adds carefully and highlight things they're looking for, and cut the least important stuff until you're down to one page. Only purpose of your resume is to get you to the first interview. They tell you exactly what they want in the add (well ideally), tell them you have that. Feel you have a weak resume, not a lot of stuff to put, dig deeper, hobbies, volunteering, whatever it is you do with your time, phrase it in the best possible way for a resume and put it on there. Specific results you can back up, are really good. Increased X by 50% (you will be asked about it at interview, be ready). Ask your references before putting them on there. Give your references a copy of your resume (so you're all on the same page), tell them specific examples of you doing good work will help you the most.
Interview: your first few interviews are practice. Your interviewing skills are rusty, you're nervous, etc. Some interview questions will catch you off guard. Its ok, get some practice, and then when the job comes along you really want, you will be ready (to reiterate, apply to lots of jobs). Interviews are also your chance to ask questions to see if the company is a good fit for you. Why did the person who you're replacing leave (look for red flags), is vacation time, working conditions, etc, important to you? ask about it.
Offers: Expect to interview a number of times before getting any offers. If you get offers that aren't good enough to accept, that is your chance to practice negotiating. If you're underpaid, it will be easy to find a better offer. If you're not, you will get tired of applying before you find something. Either way you will learn how valuable you are or aren't to the job market. Or maybe you learn if you want better pay you have to move to (hot place for your job), etc. At the end of the day, if upir current can pay you what they do, and you will keep working for them, you're not underpaid. If you find something better, go there.
Accepting: Once you have an offer in hand, that you like, take it. Maybe you like your current employer, maybe they offer you a raise, but by the time you've done the work to get an offer in hand, you need to take it. They had their chance when you asked for a raise, and when they knew you were looking. They might give you a raise to keep you around, until they replace you when its convenient for them, the job offer you had will be gone. Also, if they dragged their feet this much to give you a raise, if your value continues to increase, you will be in the same boat again down the road. Also moving around (some) will give you broader experience. By the time you've done the work to get an offer in hand, you should take it. Now if you're close to retirement, or other unusual circumstances, maybe stay.
-Never stop advocating for yourself.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 15 2023, @03:39PM
>You don't need to hide you're looking, but don't be in-your-face about it either. Any competent manager will know that an employee who is looking, will leave, if they get a better offer.
This is another case of "read the room..."
Some places will see that you are looking and do what they can to retain you.
Other places will see that you are looking, hire your replacement and then "eliminate your position, so sorry - it's nothing about your performance, we just don't need someone like you anymore."
This is usually more about them than anything you can do to influence the situation.
On the other hand, I have successfully jumped jobs twice with zero telegraphing of my intentions - because both places were "that kind of place" that might let you go because they know you're looking. When I delivered my notice, both acted completely blindsided- asked if there was anything they could do to change my mind, etc. Honestly, no... that's why I'm leaving. Both of these jumps involved taking days off from work to fly 1000+ miles to the new company(ies) for interview(s) - first time took three trips for me (over 6 months) to find the right fit, second time was more a case of them pursuing me and me agreeing it was a better fit than my current situation.
Then, there have been multiple situations where I did "telegraph" certain problems with my current employer-employee relationship and they were corrected, either through schedule changes or significant salary increase.
Read the room. And if you make a bad call, there's always another job out there somewhere - maybe you'll be better at reading the room next time.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 15 2023, @09:07AM
Everyone gets paid the same wage for the same job [theguardian.com].
This works so well in the Australian Public Service the government wants to inflict it on everyone.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by turgid on Saturday June 17 2023, @09:08AM
Some companies in interviews have a good way of making you feel small. The ones around Cambridge (UK) are particularly good at that, I find, particularly if you didn't go to the local university.
I eventually got to a company where my efforts were properly appreciated and I got some fantastic pay rises, which put my salary above average for what I do, and I have managed to keep it above average ever since. In fact, it has made me more attractive to prospective employers because I have all this "achievement" on my CV and because I'm a little more expensive than average, I must be good, right?
The thing about salary negotiations is to be reasonable. Leave things flexible by saying that there are other things you consider valuable other than just the basic salary. Also, try to get more than one company interested at a time.
Speak to your friends and former colleagues and find out what the market rate really is as opposed to what's on the job ad. Consider contracting. You can effectively double your income by accepting a bit of risk and the extra effort of running your own limited company.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].