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posted by martyb on Wednesday January 31 2018, @09:53PM   Printer-friendly
from the voice-of-Jobs-experience dept.

https://www.investopedia.com/news/steve-wozniak-turns-tesla-critic-doesnt-trust-elon-musk/

Steve Wozniak spoke recently at the Nordic Business Forum in Stockholm. A clipping from the end of the short article,

After years of upgrades and new sensors, Woz sees Tesla as a company that has made major promises and delivered well under the bar. "I love that car, but the trouble is Elon Musk is portrayed in a lot of moves with a lack of faith and trust," he said. "What he says, can you really believe in him? Is he just a good salesman, like Jobs, and may not be there [in the end]?"

Wozniak went as far as to suggest that "every other car manufacturer in the world," including Audi and BMW, "are actually ahead of Tesla for self-driving cars." He then praised his Chevy Bolt EV, which he prefers to drive for everyday life.

It doesn't seem that long ago that Woz was calling out Toyota for problems with the cruise control on his Prius, but here's an update from 2010 -- https://gizmodo.com/5462205/steve-wozniak-update-on-his-prius-problems


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  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:14PM (28 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:14PM (#631209)

    - All of them because they're not yet 100% reliable - and the problem with self-driving cars is, if you're an early adopter, you stand to die.
    - Some, if not all of them also, because they spy on me.

    I'll keep my non-electronic vehicles for as long as I can: until proven otherwise, I'm still more competent driver than an algorithm, and no corporate or state sumbitch knows where I go or what I do with them.

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  • (Score: 5, Touché) by Snow on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:27PM (13 children)

    by Snow (1601) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:27PM (#631218) Journal

    -- Nothing is 100% reliable, especially you.
    -- They can just spy on you using your cell phone that you willingly take everywhere you go.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:42PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:42PM (#631221)

      No cell phone, so no spying on me that way, but now there is the national license plate database built from many, many cameras on the roads. Pretty hard to take a private trip these days by car. Bicycle might be a better option.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:56PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:56PM (#631228)

        Gonna need to invest in a hat, big sunglasses and a fake beard. Facial recognition is better and better and you bet they'll be extra curious who the bikers are.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:25PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:25PM (#631250)

        Neither foot nor bicycle will work by itself. You additionally would need to vary your clothing/bike coloration between areas, and ideally obscure your face, whether via hat, sunglasses, mask, or facial prosthetics (the latter may be illegal depending on region and legal guidelines).

        Besides that, the only way to ensure future privacy is either to move to a country that does have nor plan to have these systems in place, or find a sufficient number of people to found your own state living up to the privacy ideals America was meant to have, but the populace has been entirely willing to give up thanks to being 'true patriots', 'apathetic assholes', or 'traitors to the founding principles of this once glorious Union.', depending on the person and your views of them.

    • (Score: 3, Troll) by bob_super on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:54PM (1 child)

      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:54PM (#631227)

      > -- Nothing is 100% reliable, especially you.

      I'll trust an autonomous car after they demonstrate it going safely unescorted from Panama City to Rio via La Paz without using major highways. Or maybe Beijing to Tashkent via Bangkok.

      Keep testing in CA and AZ as much as you want. It's one step up from a private track, but a long long way from the roads most potential buyers travel.

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:17PM

        by frojack (1554) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:17PM (#631243) Journal

        It's one step up from a private track, but a long long way from the roads most potential buyers travel.

        I'd be impressed to see an AV given a destination 400 miles and one state away, without any forewarning to its developers, and have it arrive, roughly on time, through normal traffic, without becoming a huge impediment to traffic along the route. Extra points if the destination or the route could be changed on a whim to take US Routes rather than Freeways, and visit some historical site along the way.

        Supposedly Google just orderd a thousand more cars from Chrysler.

        These rumors of cars with no brakes, or steering wheel might work on private campuses. But not going to work in rural areas, dirt roads, snowy roads, or when you have to park on the lawn at the highschool foot ball game.

        --
        No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:21PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:21PM (#631246)

      -- Nothing is 100% reliable, especially you.

      This. Autonomous vehicles don't need to be 100% reliable, though that is definitely something to strive toward; they only need to be consistently more reliable than the largely-idiot meatbags that currently pilot cars around the streets and highways.

      -- They can just spy on you using your cell phone that you willingly take everywhere you go.

      Ha! Got you there. I only have a land line.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:29PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:29PM (#631252)

        Autonomous cars are only trustworthy to the establishment. Not to the owner or operator of the vehicle.

        And that is where the concern comes from that would keep me from riding in an autonomous vehicle, over a pre-throttle-by-wire manual transmission vehicle. The newer vehicles take away every function you could use to keep yourself save in the event the vehicle is compromised. And they make it exceedingly easy to make an assassination look like an accident if they so deem it necessary.

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:18AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:18AM (#631318)

        Ha! Got you there. I only have a land line.

        Ha brilliant! So when they call you, the voice recognition might tell them who you are, but they'll have no idea where you are!

        • (Score: 2) by chromas on Thursday February 01 2018, @12:09PM

          by chromas (34) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 01 2018, @12:09PM (#631437) Journal

          I got an extra long curly cord just so I can roam around while using the land line.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Thursday February 01 2018, @02:49AM (1 child)

      by c0lo (156) on Thursday February 01 2018, @02:49AM (#631307) Journal

      -- Nothing is 100% reliable, especially you.

      At least I'll be dead mainly because of my fault rather than the fault of a tired programmer, a je-m'en-fiche QA and a clueless mid-level manager with a agile-dev, deliver early, deliver-often, God will sort them out mindset.

      -- They can just spy on you using your cell phone that you willingly take everywhere you go.

      I haven't heard yet of any mobile able to communicate from inside a proper Faraday cage.
      An tin/Al foil is good for blocking the microwave signal, works both for tin-foil hats and for mobile phone enclosures.

      Now, go wrap your car in Al foil and then we'll discuss some more.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Thursday February 01 2018, @10:35AM

        by kazzie (5309) on Thursday February 01 2018, @10:35AM (#631412)

        Make sure you wrap the car windows in foil too, or the Faraday cage won't work.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:44PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:44PM (#631222)

    and people are shit at driving.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:57PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:57PM (#631229)

      Disagree. People are remarkably good at driving. Even drunk drivers manage to "get away" with it most of the time (this is not meant as an endorsement).

      It's a huge system, thus the raw numbers of accidents and injury/deaths appear large. Google turns up 222 million licensed drivers in USA, in 2016.

      I'll wait until the self driving car is better than I am (statistically). I don't commute (miss peak traffic times), don't drive impaired, don't have a cell phone to distract me and keep up my car. I figure I'm roughly 5-10x safer than an average driver--a much higher standard for the self driving car to meet.

      • (Score: 2) by Snow on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:15PM (1 child)

        by Snow (1601) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:15PM (#631240) Journal

        Is a commuting VIA car really a bigger risk than a non-commuter? Genuinely curious.

        Commuters are generally taking a route that they have taken 100s of times along with other people who have also taken the same route 100s of times. These are also people that drive at least twice per day, and are not teenagers, nor elderly.

        If you compare that to late morining/early afternoon drivers, they tend to be elderly or moms with screaming kids distracting them in the back of the mini-van.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @12:33AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @12:33AM (#631276)

          Commuting sucks and is boring, lots of people eating / drinking while driving, using cell phones, or just bored and not paying as much attention.

          Would have to look into the stats to get a real answer though, what % of accidents happen during rush hour times? Then control for higher number of vehicles on the road, and whatever other factors....

    • (Score: 2, Troll) by acid andy on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:58PM (2 children)

      by acid andy (1683) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:58PM (#631230) Homepage Journal

      You're just echoing what the shills tell everyone.

      So you're happy to trust your life, day after day, with a machine that is just slightly better-than-shit at driving. Except we don't even know if they're better than people yet. We won't until mass roll-out has happened.

      --
      If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:26PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:26PM (#631251)

        So you're happy to trust your life, day after day, with a machine that is just slightly better-than-shit at driving.

        Everyone is already happy to trust idiot meatbags at the wheel. If machines can match or be even slightly less-shit than the meatbags... oh, wait, this discussion involves idiot meatbags trying to justify not relinquishing control of their machines, doesn't it? Never mind. Carry on. You will be replaced someday, human.

        • (Score: 5, Touché) by acid andy on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:37PM

          by acid andy (1683) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @11:37PM (#631256) Homepage Journal

          Right. I see. Do you like Tide Pods?

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
  • (Score: 5, Funny) by MostCynical on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:54PM (4 children)

    by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @10:54PM (#631226) Journal

    Re:I don't trust any car
      All of them because they're not yet 100% reliable - and the problem with cars is, you stand to die.

    FTFY
    Over 30,000 deaths per year.

    https://crimeresearch.org/2015/01/are-guns-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-car-is-no/ [crimeresearch.org]

    --
    "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 1) by tftp on Thursday February 01 2018, @02:51AM (3 children)

      by tftp (806) on Thursday February 01 2018, @02:51AM (#631309) Homepage
      30,000 deaths per year can be reduced to a hundred or so if all vehicles are automated and communicate to each other. Also this is a much simpler task than to teach a car to drive among manual control vehicles. In the end we all will get old, frail and unable to drive. Fortunately, most of SN readers (not older than 60, I guess) will be able to use a personal or shared automatic car. Development of automatic cars is an obvious necessity that is within our reach in, say, 10 years, if not earlier.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:21AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:21AM (#631319)

        Some want to live, others merely exist. Trying to stop others from living is an impediment to your existence.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @05:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @05:50PM (#631583)

          Nice threat, almost didn't notice!

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:45PM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:45PM (#631503)

        30,000 deaths per year can be reduced to a hundred or so if all vehicles are automated and communicate to each other.

        Yes, exactly: if all vehicles are automated, which is not going to happen for a long time, if ever. Mixing human drivers and AI drivers is going to be..."interesting."

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:41AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @03:41AM (#631330)

    I don't trust any self-driving car
    - All of them because they're not yet 100% reliable - and the problem with self-driving cars is, if you're an early adopter, you stand to die.

    Mercedes says that if confronted with a situation where a decision has to be made about harming the driver or harming bystanders, the self-driving Mercedes will plow through the 6 year olds crossing the street rather than drive off into a ditch-- Mercedes knows their market.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=mercendes+self+driving+car+to+favor+driver+not+bystanders+in+crash&client=firefox-b-ab&gbv=1&sei=WYlyWpi7LYn2jwP5tYnoAQ [google.com]

    - Some, if not all of them also, because they spy on me.

    If you have a license plate on your car you are being tracked. If you have a cell phone that is powered on, you are being tracked. If you own a car that was made in the last 5 years, you are possibly being tracked in real time-- a lot of these cars have, and use a data connection to track you even if you do not pay extra to use it for something you find useful. For these years of cars and a bit older, you are almost definitely being tracked off-liine to a "black box" that can be accessed and the data used against you e.g., after a traffic accident.

    https://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/09/21/003259/onstar-terms-and-conditions-update-raises-privacy-concerns [slashdot.org]

    I'm not sure what the solution is, but technical mitigation will only go so far (search page for "salt")

    http://wipkip.nikhef.nl/events/defcon/DEF%20CON%2021/DEF%20CON%2021%20video%20and%20slides/DEF%20CON%2021%20Hacking%20Conference%20Presentation%20By%20Pukingmonkey%20-%20The%20Road%20Less%20Surreptitiously%20Traveled%20-%20Video%20and%20Slides.srt [nikhef.nl]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @04:29AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 01 2018, @04:29AM (#631344)

      I'm not sure what the solution is, but technical mitigation will only go so far (search page for "salt")

      My technical solution was to remove the black box. Failing that, I would have been happy disconnecting it from its antennas only.