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posted by Fnord666 on Friday August 16 2019, @01:05AM   Printer-friendly
from the don't-not-do-evil dept.

[Ed note: This story was originally posted 2019-08-15 04:41 UTC but was lost when we had the site crash Thursday morning. Prior comments have, unfortunately, been lost. --martyb]

'Google Blocked TorrentFreak From Appearing in Search Feature'

Documents released by whistleblower Zachary Vorhies suggests that Google actively blocked hundreds of sites, including TorrentFreak, from its Google Now service. The blocklist doesn't provide a specific reason for the blockade, but other sites are flagged for having a high user block rate or for peddling hoax stories. Vorhies has shared the documents with the US Department of Justice.

At TorrentFreak, we have written hundreds of articles about website blocking and censorship. Today, we're featured in one ourselves.

Leaked Google documents reveal that TorrentFreak.com shows up in one of Google's previously unknown blocklists, which actively hides our domain from the Google Now service.

Google Now was a Google search feature that presented users with informational cards, to provide users with more details on subjects of interest to them. While the brand no longer exists, the feature is still present in the Google Android app and its feed.

The controversial blocklist is part of a treasure trove of files that were leaked by whistleblower Zachary Vorhies, who shared them with Project Veritas. The entire collection of files uncovers many previously unknown policies and actions from Google.

The story that broke SoylentNews™.

See also (Zachary Vorhies in the news): YouTube Software Engineer Describes Seeing Altercation In Building Courtyard
America's Greatest Makers is like American Idol for geeks, so we talked to one

Previously: Veritas Claims Leaked Internal E-Mails from Google Showing Political Bias of Results


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  • (Score: 1, Troll) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @06:30AM (50 children)

    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @06:30AM (#880924) Journal

    This has been moderated as a Troll for writing facts that someone didn't agree with? That is not the way to moderate.

    If his statements are false, prove it. Provide your alternative with supporting evidence.

    I am not a fan of jmorris nor do I agree with his views, but he is entitled to have an opinion without the crap moderating that was on Slashdot coming to our own site. Grow up and debate like adults.

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   -1  
       Troll=2, Insightful=1, Total=3
    Extra 'Troll' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   1  
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @07:46AM (17 children)

    by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @07:46AM (#880937) Journal

    This has been moderated as a Troll for writing facts that someone didn't agree with?

    [Citation needed]

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @08:19AM (16 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @08:19AM (#880951) Journal

      So counter his opinion with facts that can persuade him to reconsider. You have now produced the medical examiner's report, why didn't you provide that as evidence to support your previous comments. You disagreed with what jmorris was saying - that is a 'Disagree' mod in my book.

      even the Guardian had to include Gorka's pretty compelling destruction of the timeline behind the story. Because The Guardian is under British law and they have libel laws with teeth.

      I can pull that reference up and read it and it does seem to support this part of one of his assertions.

      I'm am not saying that jmorris is correct, nor am I supporting his point of view, but IMHO moderating it as a troll is a simple way to suppress or hide his opinion. That is falling into the trap that others frequently fall into and you are capable of much better argument than that. I know, I have been on the receiving end of it.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @08:49AM (15 children)

        by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @08:49AM (#880960) Journal

        You have now produced the medical examiner's report, why didn't you provide that as evidence to support your previous comments.

        Repeat after me, Jan: extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence and it is the burden of the claimant to provide the evidence.

        You disagreed with what jmorris was saying - that is a 'Dihsagree' mod in my book.

        I have more than disagreed with him.
        Signalling disagreement shows a willingness to debate, a thing that I long gave up in relation with jmorris. On the simple ground that arguing with him is an exercise of pure and unadulterated futility, for whatever reasons** he never showed any sign that an argument or citation will make him change his mind. A troll mod is a way to inform fellow soylenters about the danger of wasting their time too, especially when trying to argue against a mixture of blatant lies with fragments of truths.

        Is the explanation clear?

        ** I have doubts that 'reasons' is a term that go well in the same phrase with jmorris. I have this nagging feeling that 'conditions' is a more appropriate term, like in 'mental conditions'. I can't shake from my memory one of his past rants on the line of 'the time for the real patriots to clean the country of liberals is getting closer'.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @10:51AM (4 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @10:51AM (#880986) Journal

          Signalling disagreement shows a willingness to debate, a thing that I long gave up in relation with jmorris.

          So ignore him if you feel he is not worth speaking to.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @11:40AM (2 children)

            by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @11:40AM (#881002) Journal

            Explain this to me please, why should I stop expressing my opinion by the way of modding?
            More or less, everybody does it (so the final mod is an act of balancing by the community), and it's natural to be so - nobody has God-like knowledge to know the absolute truth, the mod is inherently subjective, an expression of personal opinion too.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @12:39PM (1 child)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @12:39PM (#881020) Journal

              everybody does it

              Remember when you were young and your mother said something like 'if your friends put their hands in the fire, would you do it too?". That others abuse the moderation system does not make that abuse right. He wasn't trolling (IMHO), he was expressing an opinion with which you disagreed.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @01:30PM

                by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @01:30PM (#881041) Journal

                Remember when you were young and your mother said something like 'if your friends put their hands in the fire, would you do it too?".

                Oh, Jan, are you doing it again? Didn't I explained well enough that you aren't quite in a position "to teach the kids a lesson"?
                What makes you think that you know better than all the soylenters?

                That others abuse the moderation system does not make that abuse right.

                What if that is how it should be and nobody is abusing anything but instead they are expressing their sincere opinions by modding?
                And your expectation of something better is an idealism that doesn't practically serves anyone?

                As small as it is, S/N is already a mature community, can you please make an effort of seeing it as such and not like a bunch of grandkids to be kept on a short leash?

                He wasn't trolling (IMHO), he was expressing an opinion with which you disagreed.

                No, mate, I suggest you stop believing it for even a moment (or stop trying to pull wool over soylenters eyes, in the eventuality that's your agenda).

                Someone expressing an opinion sounds like "I think... The way I see the things... I heard X, if that's true then..."
                But no, when it comes to certain topics**, he's using the more abject and refined disinformation techniques that I had the unfortunate occasion to be subjected for my first 25 years of life, under a communist regime in Eastern Europe.

                Now, he may be sincere what he is saying (being brainwashed and transformed in a useful idiot, he wouldn't be the first nor the last).
                Or he may be doing it on deliberately powered by whatever ideological agenda or material interest. Or any combination of the two.

                But... bottom line, do you really think it matters why is he doing it?
                I know it's a waste of time to play his sick game, it doesn't need to take years of same-old-same-old jmorris posts to realize it's futile.

                ---

                ** it's not a knee-jerk reaction in me triggered by a jmorris post, he has enough posts I consider balanced enough, now and then some which I can ever agree with (very rare, but it does happen). Even though I still have mod points now, I don't rush to bury all his comments.

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @11:24PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @11:24PM (#881341)

            So ignore him if you feel he is not worth speaking to.

            It would be a hell of a lot easier to ignore jmorris if his comments on just about anything these days wasn't pure white noise. Just sayin'.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @11:00AM (1 child)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @11:00AM (#880988) Journal

          he never showed any sign that an argument or citation will make him change his mind.

          Which is precisely why I do not favour publishing political stories - I have never witnessed anyone have their political views changed as a result of in intelligent debate on the internet. Those who are prepared to discuss politics usually have strong opinions and thus are the very people who will not respond to logic or reasoned debate.

          This story did not start out with politics as its basis but the comments quickly deteriorated into politically polarised claims and counterclaims. At that point, we also witness an increase in the 'Troll' moderations because anyone with politically opposed views to the reader is immediately seen as a Troll. Marking as a Troll is seen to be a simple way of suppressing views with which the reader disagrees strongly, and any hope of intelligent discussion ceases at that point. Both sides of the USA political spectrum are as deserving of free speech to present their views as the other, and both sides never listen or apply reason to alternative viewpoints so are wasting their time.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @11:34AM

            by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @11:34AM (#880999) Journal

            Which is precisely why I do not favour publishing political stories

            I can understand why you don't like it, but this does not mean I accept your position - on this one, I believe we can agree to disagree in a civil way.

            I have never witnessed anyone have their political views changed as a result of in intelligent debate on the internet.

            Radically change? No chance in hell.
            Accept some merit in another position, perhaps even mellow one that I hold, even when I consider it suboptimal? It happened to me many times. It also happened the other way around, to become more entrenched in some others, based on arguments (or the lack thereof) that were presented during discussions.

            That's one of the many reasons I see the publishing of political stories as beneficial - people tire and when tired some of them may start to listen - as little chances for this to happen as it may be, if you don't publish political stories, you lose these chances.

            This story did not start out with politics as its basis but the comments quickly deteriorated into politically polarised claims and counterclaims.

            See? Seems like Soylenters need to have political "fights" here. If you don't give them a context, they'll create one anyway (so, why should I debate endlessly with you over this when it happens anyway?)

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @01:14PM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @01:14PM (#881033) Journal

          extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence and it is the burden of the claimant to provide the evidence.

          That is absolutely correct - but you didn't ask him to provide evidence, you modded him as Troll. You weren't prepared to show that he made a mistake, you took an action (which has since been changed by others in subsequent moderations) which would have had the effect of reducing the chance of his views being seen. That doesn't seem fair to me.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @01:50PM (2 children)

            by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @01:50PM (#881058) Journal

            That is absolutely correct - but you didn't ask him to provide evidence, you modded him as Troll.

            And rightly so, from the experience I had with his posts in the past.
            I mean, look, you know that "doing it the same and expecting different results", right? Why do you expect, nay, ask me to act in an idiotic way?

            That doesn't seem fair to me.

            Come on, mate, time for you to learn by your own direct experience.
            For 2-3 years, you fact-check every jmorris post and provide evidence every time when he's lying. And we'll discuss the matter of fairness of mod-trolling jmorris after that. Deal?

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
            • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @02:08PM (1 child)

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @02:08PM (#881072) Journal

              So jmorris' actions have remained unchanged for 2 - 3 year, but you have admitted that you modded me Troll as well. I cannot accept your explanation as a justification for using the Troll moderation. But I suspect that we will have to agree to disagree.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @03:44PM

                by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @03:44PM (#881135) Journal

                I cannot accept your explanation as a justification for using the Troll moderation.

                Are you sure you understood the explanation for which I modded your comment as troll?

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @02:25PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @02:25PM (#881082)

          he never showed any sign that an argument or citation will make him change his mind. A troll mod is a way to inform fellow soylenters about the danger of wasting their time too

          Ok, so because you feel you can't convert him to your side, you must take it on yourself to hide his posts so others won't see what you don't like.
          That's petty censorship. It validates my choice to read at -1 so that you and others like you can't decide what I get to see.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @02:34PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @02:34PM (#881088)

            That's petty censorship. It validates my choice to read at -1

            Conflating downvotes with censorship is so feeble-minded. The biggest suckers are always the people who think they are superior non-conformists.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @03:16PM

            by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @03:16PM (#881122) Journal

            Ok, so because you feel you can't convert him to your side, you must take it on yourself to hide his posts so others won't see what you don't like.
            That's petty censorship.

            It would be censorship, if my actions would have the effect of hiding his post. Since I know I cannot do this, it would be stupid from me to even try.
            So, question, do you take me for a stupid?

            It validates my choice to read at -1 so that you and others like you can't decide what I get to see.

            Congrats, you discovered this weird trick... I assure you most of the Soylenters did.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @04:31PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @04:31PM (#881158)

          He really was losing his shit right before the server crashed and a lot of the more ranty comments got wiped.

  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @07:54AM (7 children)

    by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @07:54AM (#880938) Journal

    Alt-facts indeed [worldnow.com], Jan, alt-facts. This is how they should be moderated.

    Cause of death: BLUNT FORCE INJURY TO THE TORSO

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @01:16PM (1 child)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @01:16PM (#881034) Journal

      This is how you should have challenged what jmorris wrote, but that does not mean they should also be moderated as Troll for being wrong. There are many people I disagree with - that does not make them Trolls.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @01:43PM

        by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @01:43PM (#881048) Journal

        No, this is how you should have challenged jmorris post before jumping into his "defense".

        And after you'll be doing again and again for 2-3 years, I'll grant you the "moral right to teach me", by the power of "role model" that you have had built yourself into (even if I'll still be reluctant to "learn", given the disinformation techniques jmorris is using).

        Until then, I'm happy to discuss with you your opinions, eve more so if you tone down the somehow patronizing attitude that annoyingly surfaces often enough. Deal?

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday August 16 2019, @03:45PM (4 children)

      by jmorris (4844) on Friday August 16 2019, @03:45PM (#881136)

      That is actually new information. I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage since I hadn't yet got into the habit of "save everything from the memory hole." People say my views never change, but back then I still thought "The Internet is forever, nothing truly vanishes and Google can find anything." Experience has taught differently. But the Duck can still find this much on the first couple of pages:

      https://antelopegames.wordpress.com/2017/09/10/the-death-of-heather-heyer/ [wordpress.com]

      Note it has some facts different, nobody seems to entirely agree except those who have carefully put together the videos and worked out the details, but that took some time for the 4chan autists to accomplish. They are the only ones who did any serious scene reconstruction, the officials had no interest in it and a rigged public defender certainly wasn't going to pay for it. But this account directly quotes from the MSNBC video of the victim's mother saying it was a heart attack. The link to the video is dead though, NBC News has removed it. It might still exist if someone searched hard enough, I'm sure someone somewhere saved it. Just saying for the record that I did in fact see it back when this was a live story.

      UPDATE RIGHT BEFORE HITTING SUBMIT:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t1X6eOOrAE [youtube.com]
      The Internet still remembers! Somebody reposted an 18 second extract from it.

      The autopsy report doesn't really confirm much if one knows how to read government documents. They seem to accept the police report for most of the key facts and no mention appears of the paramedics who stated that they had great difficulty in restarting her heart because she was a "woman of size." That really is the key fact the ME intentionally concealed, that she had no immediately fatal injuries (read the ME report above) so why was she dead? Their conclusion of blunt force trauma is a new fact, whether it was from being directly impacted by one of the vehicles is debatable. There was a lot of moving things in those few seconds and the best spergs say she didn't fail the Dodge Challenger Challenge. So I'm going with /pol/ is always right on this one.

      Guess I need to start folders for these recurring myths that simply can't be killed. Scooter Libby did not out Valerie Plame, and it wouldn't have mattered because she wasn't a covert agent. At least annually that one has to get smacked down. It is clear that every anniversary of the "Unite the Right" fiasco this hoary one is going to surface again. And Russia! Russia! Russia! will remain "true in your minds" probably long after I pass over and someone else will have to take up the task.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @05:06PM (3 children)

        by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @05:06PM (#881176) Journal

        But this account directly quotes from the MSNBC video of the victim's mother saying it was a heart attack.

        And her mother is, no doubt, a better qualified coroner that the one signing the death certificate after an autopsy, right?

        The autopsy report doesn't really confirm much if one knows how to read government documents.

        Yes, there are so many ways of reading textual information printed in latin alphabet. But only the most advanced in the arcane knowledge are able to grok a goverment document.

        There was a lot of moving things in those few seconds and the best spergs say she didn't fail the Dodge Challenger Challenge. So I'm going with /pol/ is always right on this one.

        Yes, yes. Tens of witnesses are delusional. As also delusional is Capt. Steward “Nick” Barrell, of the Charlottesville Fire Department [richmond.com] (cause everyone knows that the firemen must be nuts trying to save people from fire and whatnot).
        His testimony is trully outworldish, unbelievable and very biased "Barrell knew Heyer was in trouble. She had a large contusion on her chest and a laceration on her leg. Her condition appeared to be consistent with cardiac arrest and other significant trauma, so Barrell called for her immediate evacuation, he said."

        And "that blood samples collected from Fields’ Dodge Challenger matched Heyer’s DNA" was surely planted there.

        Besides, those inept authors are publishing rubbish [nih.gov] in that dirty rag called "journal of emergency, trauma and shock" that says "Cardiac contusion, usually caused by blunt chest trauma, has been recognized with increased frequency over the past decades. Traffic accidents are the most frequent cause of cardiac contusions resulting from a direct blow to the chest...Although death is rare, cardiac contusion can be fatal. We present a case of cardiac contusion due to blunt chest trauma secondary to a fall impact, which manifested as cardiogenic shock.
        ...
        A 47-year-old man was referred to our hospital after a fall impact from a height of 6 m."
        (a fall from 6 m gets the speed on impact of 10.84 m/s or 24mph. Usain Bolt got an avg speed of 10.44m/s)

        Surely, the spergs on /pol/ are so much credible - they have all the information at their fingertips and then something more, clairvoyance most likely.

        She would have died even if the car didn't plunge into the crowd, there's no causal relation between the car and her death, everything is an unfuckingbelivable chain of unfortunate events, right? Fields-whats-his name is innocent, you must acquit.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Friday August 16 2019, @05:42PM (2 children)

          by jmorris (4844) on Friday August 16 2019, @05:42PM (#881195)

          Not saying the guy was totally innocent. Am saying the local government is utterly and irredeemably corrupt to the point 4chan's autism analysis of the hard video evidence is more credible. He appears to have panicked after Antifa brandished semi-automatic rifles at him and the crowd he found blocking his escape began trying to destroy his vehicle and pull him out of it. Of course an equally strong argument could be made that his reaction to the situation was entirely justified and rational. What would YOU do? Do you consider yourself a "reasonable person"? That is the legal test you know, would a reasonable person have considered their life in immediate danger. Maybe one of the three vehicles that were set in motion hit the woman, maybe she was pushed by someone else and hit something, but the fact is that isn't what killed her. You are in agreement it was heart failure. With paramedics on the scene that should not have been fatal. What else isn't debatable is that even if guilty the typical sentence is on the order of five years, not four hundred. That makes it a miscarriage of justice by any sane definition of the term. Do you dispute that?

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @06:55PM

            by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @06:55PM (#881224) Journal

            Am saying the local government is utterly and irredeemably corrupt to the point 4chan's autism analysis of the hard video evidence is more credible.

            Local fire department too? And local justice is also part of the local govt?

            Of course an equally strong argument could be made that his reaction to the situation was entirely justified and rational. What would YOU do?

            In no way heading towards a crowd made of the same as those supposedly threatening me. Letting aside justification and higher rationality, even a wild animal under threat won't head into the crowd and I would expect a higher cognitive function (even if not totally rational) from a human.

            Charlottesville car attack [wikipedia.org]

            A gray 2010 Dodge Challenger drove down Fourth Street Southeast mall crossing and idled for a short time behind the white Toyota at the Downtown Mall.[6][20][21] It then backed up and traveled more than a block before rapidly accelerating forward

            At around 1:45 p.m. on August 12, 2017, the 2010 Dodge Challenger impacted a crowd of counter-protesters while driving at a high speed...
            ...
            ...Pedestrians who had avoided the attack chased Fields along Fourth Street
            Fields backed up at a high speed for several blocks, and then turned left and sped off down Market Street.

            So let me get this straight:
            1. backs up for one block.
            2. speeds fwd and hits the crowd
            3. backs up several block
            If he was threatened when he backed up at step 1 and didn't continue to backup, how come he didn't feel threatened to back more than that at step 3?
            His reaction in step 2 is not consistent with even as low as survival or conservation instinct, much less with rationality.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @07:53PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @07:53PM (#881247)

            What would YOU do?

            Whatever I may have done in the situation, I would not have pleaded guilty if I legitimately felt I had no other way out.

  • (Score: 3, Disagree) by aristarchus on Friday August 16 2019, @08:23AM (14 children)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 16 2019, @08:23AM (#880955) Journal

    Janrinock, I mod you troll for being so clueless as not to understand how jmorris could NOT be modded troll. He is not wrong, he is not even close to being "wrong"! He is so far gone that he makes your Football Hooligans in the UK look like rational men of science. He is so far off the scales that when they measured dark matter, it said it had never hear of him. When the Nazis were on trial at the War Crimes Tribunals at Nueremberg, not one of them was willing to admit they knew him. You know how Red Skull ended up at the dead planet waiting for Thanos? jmorris could not even get that gig. In fact, when he ended up there, Red Skull hid, and jmorris had to come back to SoylentNews.

    jmorris is not entitled to an opinion. He once was, but he blew it by having racist, misogynist, anti-science, and really stupid opinions. It is not the duty of all soylentils to mod him down on sight. Until the "SJW Wet Squad" can get to him.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @08:41AM (13 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @08:41AM (#880958) Journal

      So, that's a long winded way of saying:

      1. You disagree with jmorris - well nothing for me to get excited about there.
      2. You have nothing of any substance to back up your assertion, so you will write lots of guff about football hooligans, Nazis and the Neuremburg trials, and some fictitious character called Red Skull. Congratulations in putting nothing intelligent at all into so many words
      3. "jmorris is not entitled to an opinion." - YES HE IS. That is the whole point of this site. EVERYBODY is entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately, that includes you. You do not get to choose who can speak and who cannot based upon your own political views. This is why your submissions frequently have nothing to add to our discussions. You just want to control what is being said or written.
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by aristarchus on Friday August 16 2019, @09:06AM (10 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 16 2019, @09:06AM (#880961) Journal

        That's it, janrinok! I am going to have to shadow-ban you! You just do not understand that sometimes disagreement is doing what good people have to do to prevent evil from prevailing. You are English, or at least claim to be, do you not recognize the wisdom of the words of Edmund Burke? Perhaps not. He was a conservative back in the day when conservatives could read and respect science. jmorris is capable of none of these! Now, I do not mod-bomb him, because enough Soylentils recognize the total depravity of his alleged "opinions", so he does get modded down. Until his sockpuppets mod him back up again. The Neo-nazi alt-right has targeted this site, janrinok! You know it and have admitted as much else where. Now start accepting mes soumissions en français, ou je vais péter dans votre direction générale.

        • (Score: 2) by Mer on Friday August 16 2019, @09:43AM (1 child)

          by Mer (8009) on Friday August 16 2019, @09:43AM (#880966)

          I know what you meant, but what you really said in french was you wanted to fart in the intelligence service.

          --
          Shut up!, he explained.
          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday August 16 2019, @09:59AM

            by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 16 2019, @09:59AM (#880969) Journal

            And you think this is a mistake? Who do you think janrinok is, and why is he in France, ahead of the Brexitgotterdammerung/Bragnorak?

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @10:49AM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @10:49AM (#880985) Journal

          Now start accepting mes soumissions en français, ou je vais péter dans votre direction générale.

          No, because this is an English language site.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by aristarchus on Friday August 16 2019, @11:00AM (2 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 16 2019, @11:00AM (#880989) Journal

            Who made this determination? Anglos? We implemented Unicode for nothing? I suggest that we go multi-lingual. I realize that it will scare the straights, I mean, the monolingual Americans, but they really need to be booted out of their bubble, and the English language dominance on the web.

            Πρέπει να μπορούμε να μιλάμε σε πολλές γλώσσες.

            απλά λέω.

            Για παράδειγμα, ο Jmorris δεν θα ξέρει τον κώλο από το κεφάλι του εάν δημοσιεύσαμε στα ελληνικά.

            • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @12:47PM

              by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @12:47PM (#881023) Journal

              Who made this determination?

              It was decided by the community when the site was in its first year. Go and check the records. It was specifically modified to include any dialect of english (UK, American, Canadian, Australian, NZ, Indian etc).

            • (Score: 2) by etherscythe on Monday August 19 2019, @02:51PM

              by etherscythe (937) on Monday August 19 2019, @02:51PM (#882146) Journal

              I have modded you Disagree, and I will now explain why. I do not disagree that perspectives would be valuable to Americans/English-speakers. I disagree that this site is an appropriate place to implement this policy. Mind you, I'm open (eager, even) to join such a diverse community myself, since I see the value in it. However, it's not necessarily a good idea to force people to do extra work in every forum. You can see in this thread alone how hard it can be to agree on facts; add in translation issues and discussion can go off the rails very quickly. I welcome suggestions on places which can provide decently moderated discourse on an international level. I'd like to keep SoylentNews where it is, so discussions can proceed with a lower bar for entry - monolingual smart people have demands on their time, and they can provide valuable insight even when they don't have time to check their translations, or verify cultural memes/conventions.

              Now, if the Soylent platform can handle an international spinoff that'd be great - the platform is in place, as you've noted. Otherwise, I say leave the work to someone else; I believe the code is completely open and available.

              --
              "Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @01:22PM (3 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @01:22PM (#881036) Journal

          I am going to have to shadow-ban you!

          I'm sure that I will lie awake at night unable to sleep because of the firm and robust actions you are about to take.

          The Neo-nazi alt-right has targeted this site, janrinok!

          So has the left wing, the moderates, the liberals and those who have no particularly strong views in any particular direction. They are all welcome here to express their opinions and to join in our discussions.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by aristarchus on Friday August 16 2019, @05:27PM (2 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Friday August 16 2019, @05:27PM (#881191) Journal

            And you say this after it was intimated on IRC that I was responsible for the recent site crash? You have no idea what you are dealing with, janrinok! Powers beyond your comprehension! Have you heard of the "Dim Mak" [imdb.com]? The thing about an aristarchus shadow ban is that there is really no way to tell whether it is in effect. But its super effective.

            • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday August 16 2019, @07:58PM (1 child)

              by Sulla (5173) on Friday August 16 2019, @07:58PM (#881250) Journal

              intimated on IRC that I was responsible for the recent site crash

              Citation needed. I was AFK and read about it the next morning and all I saw was Chromas trying his hardest to fix the problem and not cause more damage in the process.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @04:28PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @04:28PM (#881156)

        "jmorris is not entitled to an opinion." - YES HE IS. That is the whole point of this site. EVERYBODY is entitled to an opinion.

        While that is true, jmorris does have quite a reputation for presenting heaping loads of bullshit to this audience. He typically adds nothing but white noise to these discussions. Regardless of which way he should be modded (or not), I wish he would just shut up and go away. Just sayin'.

      • (Score: 1) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Friday August 16 2019, @04:58PM

        by jmichaelhudsondotnet (8122) on Friday August 16 2019, @04:58PM (#881171) Journal

        well said. we can be friends. i mean that.

        the bad guys really hate this site you built, and i will love you all forever for that.

        open discussion with verifiabiility and permanence and real community is obviously the thing on the internet israel and their stooges(and all totalitarian forces) hate the most, so keep up the good work.

        soylentees are changing the world and you just went from being an obscure site to the front line in an epic historical struggle for the future of humanity. I did not make it this way, it's just how it happened to turn out lol.

        "never doubt the ability of a small group of people to change the world. in fact, it's the only thing that ever has." - i got that from jack kornfield but im sure someone else said it first....

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @08:33AM (3 children)

    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @08:33AM (#880957) Journal

    So we are going to follow Slashdot's lead, are we? If someone says something we don't like we will just mod them as Trolls...

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @11:17AM (2 children)

      by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @11:17AM (#880992) Journal

      Jan, let's clear the waters.
      As much as you would like to present it this way, "simple disagreement" is not the reason for which you "earned" a troll-mod from me.

      This has been moderated as a Troll for writing facts that someone didn't agree with?
      ...
      but he is entitled to have an opinion without the crap moderating... Grow up and debate like adults.

      Those were not facts, just the opposite. Those were snippets of truth put together with lies in such a manner to twist the irrelevancy** of those snippers into something malignant. I asked for citations; you claimed they are facts, I considered your duty to support your claim; since I saw nothing from you nor from jmorris, I found myself in the need to search for them myself.
      It was only after I found them that I awarded a troll-mod to you (you have means to check the time order of the events, right?) for:

      1. your "dereliction from the duty of fact checking" - I would expect this any human calling himself rational, but I do expect it from an editor even more so from an Editor-in-Chief.
      2. your pretense that the single reason for which jmorris'es post was troll-mod worthy could be only "disagreeing with the facts" and qualifying that mod as "crap" and trying to diminish its value as childish.

        If you had stopped at the "Mod-er, please explain. I want to avoid a possible situation in which an opinion is buried only because someone/many disagree with it". I would not have granted you a troll mod.

        But you chose to insult the mod-er of jmorris'es comment, presenting jmorris post as indisputable facts (not opinions) and without a minimal fact-checking on your own.

      Furthermore, as a matter of personal opinion, I consider absolutely disingenuous your position of "he is entitled to have an opinion but the mod-er is to be chastised". For the following reasons:

      1. if you are such a stout defender of opinion worthiness, I would expect you to express this position consistently over time. And I don't see it (maybe you do and I'm blind?). In any case, nobody can see it even now in the case of mod-bombing of my comments in this thread [soylentnews.org], even when my opinion there was sincere and argumented
      2. a mod is also a statement of opinion from the part of the mod-er.
        Freedom of speech shields the speaker from the government, but expecting their "words" to not have consequences at all, from anybody, is childish (did you really expect the "crap mod" and "not an adult" insults to be inconsequential?). My troll-mod on your post represent my opinion about the position you expressed. Bottom line, if an opinion is deemed to have value, high chances are the other Soylenters will correct the "bad mod" (it happened in the mod-bombing example I used above) - so we'll see how this one goes

        As an Editor, I expect you to adopt the position of "serving the needs of S/N members" and doing your best to abstain from patronizing them (right!... "like adults", eh?)

      **

      ... Heyer's own mother is recorded (in full glorious HD) in the MSNBC archives saying she died of a heart attack...

      True, but irrelevant, her mother is not a coroner (or whatever name the specialty has in US).

      A lie. ... she died of a heart attack from the excitement

      Turns out the available evidence shows this to be a lie and quite easy to find [google.com]

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @01:48PM (1 child)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @01:48PM (#881055) Journal

        "dereliction from the duty of fact checking"

        Editors have no responsibility for fact checking what is said in comments. TFS is entirely correct in that it quotes an extract of an article published by TorrentFreak. Our responsibilities end there with regards to fact checking.

        I would not have granted you a troll mod.

        So when I pointed out that I disagreed with your moderation - you did the same again to me - you modded me as a Troll. You like that technique, don't you... Again, personally I think that 'Disagree' would have been more appropriate. (By the way, you don't have to tell me who moderated me.)

        he is entitled to have an opinion but the mod-er is to be chastised

        No, that is not true. Normally moderations are a purely personal matter. But when moderating is being abused then it is appropriate that anyone seeing it calls it out. To be fair I was expecting jmorris to have his arse handed to him on a plate for what he wrote, but I hadn't expected someone who was capable of doing just that from trying to suppress his comments by using the Troll mod. Although you will not care and you certainly won't agree, I don't think you have presented yourself well in this. I could perhaps have phrased things better too. Again, that is my personal opinion which I, as a member of this community, is free to express.

        As an Editor, I expect you to adopt the position of "serving the needs of S/N members" and doing your best to abstain from patronizing them

        When we are doing our individual roles on the site we all respect the trust that has been placed in us and we give our time willingly. However, we are all members of this community and, in the comments, we are free to express our personal views. Buzz does it, I do it, we all comment here as individuals. You are not alone in thinking that our 'professional' role and personal comments conflict - but I can assure you that they don't. If they were to other members of the team would make sure that it was pointed out to us. It has happened. But if you feel that we should be doing our formal role 24 hours a day then you might have to start paying a lot more for the privilege.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday August 16 2019, @02:57PM

          by c0lo (156) on Friday August 16 2019, @02:57PM (#881109) Journal

          So when I pointed out that I disagreed with your moderation - you did the same again to me - you modded me as a Troll.

          You didn't just disagree, you expressed you disagreement in a disingenuous, patronizing and dismissive way.
          That is what made me mod you as troll. And, on top of that, your haste in "defending" a lie (under the guise of an opinion) without checking it.

            (I said the above twice already, if you make me say it thrice, it will make it true [google.com] - grin)

          Normally moderations are a purely personal matter. But when moderating is being abused

          Since when expressing an opinion is an abuse?

          but I hadn't expected someone who was capable of doing just that from trying to suppress his comments by using the Troll mod.

          Pardon? What makes you so sure I intended to suppress his comments? All I did was to signal to fellow soylenters "there be stinky dragons and lies, careful how you thread"; I thought I explained this well enough the first time.

          And, pray tell, how I'm actually capable to suppress comments? His comment is just there, I haven't ban him (I'm not able, much less capable to do it), I can't delete his comment, I didn't "deplatform" him, it's a -1 mod point, I'm not capable of doing more than that.

          Sincerely, I'm highly tempted to consider this as an insult: attempting something that I know for sure I'm not capable of would mean my intellect is on the feeble side of the IQ. Do you really think of me this way?

          However, we are all members of this community and, in the comments, we are free to express our personal views.

          And support the consequences as any other member of the community when you categorically, no trace of a doubt, build strawmen which then allow you to be dismissive.
          For reference:
          1. "This has been moderated as a Troll for writing facts..." - not facts, lies. And I didn't moderate it troll because of innocent lying or honest mistakes, but because lying was employed in bad faith, to blame the victim and morally exonerate the killer. I feel, based on my particular life experience, that isn't just an opinion, that's manipulation.
          2. "Grow up and debate like adults." - like "fuck off, prick, whaddaya thunk you know 'bout this here life or 'bout the rulz of S/N?"

          But if you feel that we should be doing our formal role 24 hours a day then you might have to start paying a lot more for the privilege.

          I know I'm far from representative, but I have this weird rule in life:"If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right". Modus tollens: "If you can't do something right, then it ain't worth doing". In your case, "I'm OK if you are doing for less than 24 hours a day, I didn't ask you to. But whatever long you are doing, at least try to do it right. And, please, learn from your mistakes"

          But as I already admitted, that's just me, I don't pretend I'm representative and I'm not asking others to share my view (though I'd be pleased to see that others do).

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @01:53PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @01:53PM (#881060)

    What do you think the Troll mod is for?
    Confidently lying in order to provoke time-wasting reactions is quintessential trolling.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday August 16 2019, @02:05PM (3 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 16 2019, @02:05PM (#881071) Journal
      I will have to accept that our Troll detection levels are calibrated differently, and leave it at that.
      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @02:26PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @02:26PM (#881083)

        No you don't have to do that. You choose to do that in order to avoid personal development.
        I used to think just like you. But then I realized I was part of the problem because I was allowing myself to be used by sociopaths who have figured out that my naivete was their best weapon.

        I should have paid better attention in history class, I would have figured it out a lot sooner. Lots of other smart people did. For example:

        Jonathan Swift - “Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it.”
        Or colloquially "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

        More relevant to this particular conversation:

        “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

        ― Jean Paul-Sartre
        Anti‐Semite and Jew [1944]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 17 2019, @09:45AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 17 2019, @09:45AM (#881476)

        Much like the TMB, janrinok does not grok the troll. The more's the pity. This site would be so much the better if all the Nazis were put into camps, like, to work, or be re-educated. But in the mean time, we troll the less intelligent, in ways that at the extreme give them some insight into their idiocity. Hasn't worked at all with Runaway, I suspect he is just too old and Arkansan (and Polish; wasn't Archie Bunker a Polack?). I am beginning to suspect that janrinok is, or was, a Nazi collaborator, or at least a Troy before Balfour. And Brexit now? How is that not racist?

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 17 2019, @11:19AM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 17 2019, @11:19AM (#881488) Journal

          janrinok does not grok the troll.

          I understand Trolls quite well, but one mustn't assume that because somebody trolled in the past that they are doing the same now. Perhaps, like you, they just have a skewed view of the world and genuinely believe that only they can see what is happening. I prefer to give them a chance to speak before I judge them.

          This site would be so much the better if all the Nazis were put into camps

          Well you've made your position quite clear. Now why should we even consider posting your submissions? Yet, we still read every one and judge them on their merit each time.

          janrinok is, or was, a Nazi collaborator,

          WW2 had finished before I came along. There are neo-nazis today of course, but I have never personally met one, nor met a nazi for that matter. Or are you using that term for anyone who is to the right of your chosen position on the spectrum?

          And Brexit now? How is that not racist?

          Pray tell me which races are involved in Brexit? There are nations who are partners in the EU, but not races, so that doesn't make it a racist issue.