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posted by martyb on Tuesday June 02 2020, @07:30PM   Printer-friendly

African-American George Floyd's death has led to marches, demonstrations, acts of violence, and looting across the USA and in other parts of the world. Emotions are running high. We will not attempt to accuse or defend anyone here. Just attempt to lay out the information we have and offer it up for the community to discuss. Many comments about this incident have been posted to unrelated stories on this site. This is, therefore, an attempt to provide one place on SoylentNews where people are encouraged to discuss it. So as to not derail other stories on the site, I kindly ask you focus those comments here.

Wikipedia has a page about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd (permanent link to the page as it appeared at the time of writing):

On May 25, 2020, George Floyd, an African-American man, was killed in the Powderhorn community of Minneapolis, Minnesota. While Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on a city street during an arrest, Derek Chauvin, a white American Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on the right side of Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; according to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that time occurred after Floyd became unresponsive.[3][4][5][6][7] Officers Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas K. Lane participated in Floyd's arrest, with Kueng holding Floyd's back, Lane holding his legs, and Thao looking on and preventing intervention by an onlooker as he stood nearby.[8]:6:24[9][10]

The arrest was made after Floyd was accused of using a counterfeit $20 bill at a market.[11] Police said Floyd physically resisted arrest.[12][13] Some media organizations commented that a security camera from a nearby business did not show Floyd resisting.[14][15] The criminal complaint filed later said that based on body camera footage, Floyd repeatedly said he couldn't breathe while standing outside the police car, resisted getting in the car and intentionally fell down.[16][17][18][19] Several bystanders recorded the event on their smartphones, with one video showing Floyd repeating "Please", "I can't breathe", "Mama", and "Don't kill me" being widely circulated on social media platforms and broadcast by the media.[20] While knee-to-neck restraints are allowed in Minnesota under certain circumstances, Chauvin's usage of the technique has been widely criticized by law enforcement experts as excessive.[21][22][23] All four officers were fired the day after the incident.[24]

[...] Charges: Third-degree murder (Chauvin) Second-degree manslaughter (Chauvin)

This has been extensively covered by the media. Some outlets attempt to put their own interpretations on their coverage with their selection of video footage and with their commentary. It is difficult to find a simple video of the incident. Here is one that has coverage from the time of initial encounter of the police the officers with George Floyd up through his being taken away by ambulance. The video is a composite of shots from a restaurant's surveillance camera (Dragon Wok), Officer body cam, and bystander cell phones. YouTube footage: Full George Floyd Available Footage (21:12). If anyone has more complete footage of the arrest, please mention it clearly (with a link) in the comments.

Lastly, this is a hard time for everybody. Pandemic. Lock-down. Unemployment. Fears. Please be mindful of others' circumstances when commenting. We are a community sprung from a time of challenge. Let us continue to be here for one-another during this difficult time. SoylentNews is People.


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  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @07:43PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @07:43PM (#1002305)

    Thank god we have trump in the white house, huh.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:13PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:13PM (#1002316)

      This all took place in Minnesota.
      The governor, mayor, and attorney general are all so liberal they are communist. They owned this 100%. Theirs to handle in all their liberal wisdom. We see the liberal way just encouraged it to spiral out of control. From there it spread to other cities run by liberals. Again, same results. They are free to officially request federal help in policing AT ANY TIME, as Trump has encouraged. Thus far, they have chosen not to.

      This had NOTHING to do with Trump at all. Although it looks like he may have to act unilaterally (as Federal law allows) to save their incompetent asses.

      • (Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:40PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:40PM (#1002455)

        You mean like at that rally in Minnesota last year when the head of the police union got on stage and thanked Trump for "taking off their handcuffs" as he presented him with a "Cops for Trump" t-shirt?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:49AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:49AM (#1002519)

          "the head of the police union" is Bob Kroll and he's suing MPD for firing those guys.

          This is white-power guy that plays policeman. Also married to a local News channel anchor woman.

          Minneapolis' finest.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:05AM

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:05AM (#1002507)

        You make the distinct mistake of thinking that police forces listen to the elected officials that are theoretically their bosses.

        For instance, in Columbus, OH, the cops pepper-sprayed the president of the city council, among other elected officials. Do you think they cared? Nope.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:39AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:39AM (#1002607)

      As oppose to who? Obama? Clinton? Bush Jr? Bush Sr?

      None of the above would have prevented the situation nor avoided the fallout. There's a fundamental issue between the dynamics of society and authorities that have been brewing for a long time. Add in the race dimension for extra spiciness.

      No politician with an iota of grey matter would take it on unless they are forced to like now as it is thrust upon Trump whether he likes it or not, not even the dumbest of the above - very high risk topic with little chance of success and minimal gain from an election perspective.

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:11PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:11PM (#1002315)

    Averaging 1 per year
    https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/minneapolis-police-fatal-encounters/89-660b1880-fd20-4bcf-adbc-85144d9c33e4 [kare11.com]
    I remember Justine, that was the yoga teacher

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by looorg on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:26PM (14 children)

    by looorg (578) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:26PM (#1002327)

    I predict that this tread will go places. Not sure if it's going to be the popcorn tread of the week or not. But it's probably not going to be very nice.

    That said it seems that Floyd once was something of a career-criminal back in Texas. I guess it shouldn't matter, but it somehow makes it harder to feel sorry for him even if he has served his time and he might not have deserved to die for his previous crimes. But I guess his victims just got what they might have wanted by proxy. I figure that the media-logic have taken hold now, where the white police officer(s) are somehow more evil then the black career-criminal. This temporary sainthood elevation that always seem to happen in cases such as this is quite tiresome really. Gotta sell the black and white world view cause viewers and readers just can't do grey. I guess the multiple coroners reports, with different explanations, are not helping either. He may or may not have had some underlying medical condition(s). Combined with the panic of being held down and arrested again.

    While I don't really find his death, or the arrest, very interesting I do wonder how exactly is all the looting and rioting helping people get over their "outrage"? Does the injustice of it all go away if one is just allowed to burn and pillage and carry home some new loot? Many wrongs make a right or something? Somehow there will be less racism if the cities burn? It's that or they just really want a confrontation with armed police, national guard or whomever is going to be put in to quell the riots.

    It also somehow puts the American image to shame to, I would have expected more armed people defending themselves and their property with lethal force -- even if it's probably in a lot of cases a really bad idea unless you have a lot of ammo.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:44PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:44PM (#1002340)

      No one is saying that George Floyd was some kind of saint.

      Go ahead and watch the video posted with TFS.

      At around 11:20, we see a thoroughly subdued and handcuffed (he was handcuffed at about 3:00 or so) George Floyd prone, with his face on the pavement. He is handcuffed and not resisting in any way.

      Since he is, at this point, in custody, the police are explicitly responsible for the safety of Floyd.

      As this horrifying scene continues, Floyd is heard to repeatedly say he can't breathe. Which is ignored by the officers, especially the one obstructing Floyd's airway.

      At ~15:00, Floyd has been bleeding from the nose for a while and is completely unresponsive. This is repeatedly pointed out the police officers who continue to obstruct Floyd's airway.

      It's not until ~19:30 that the cop stops obstructing Floyd's airway -- and only because EMTs are there to take Floyd to the hospital.

      Since you clearly don't understand what happened here, I'll lay it out for you:
      1. Floyd is handcuffed and taken into custody;
      2. Floyd, handcuffed and not resisting at all, is placed face down on the pavement;
      3. The cop places his knee on the neck of Floyd;
      4. Despite repeated pleas from both Floyd and bystanders, the cop does not release pressure on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes;
      5. During that time, it's clear that Floyd is in serious distress, with his nose bleeding and then is completely unresponsive for almost six minutes;
      6. At no time did the police officers who are charged with the safety of *anyone* in their custody take any action to protect the health of a supine, unresisting Floyd.

      At pretty much any time, the police could have placed Floyd in the patrol car and taken him to the police precinct. They chose not to do so. Rather, knowing that Floyd was in respiratory distress and then completely unresponsive, they continued to obstruct his airway.

      It's clear from the video that the cops could see what was happening and chose to continue to *kill* Floyd.

      That's intent. That's second-degree murder.

      You say you're not bothered by this? Why? Do you support murder? Or is it just that you don't care if a darkie is murdered?

      Watch the video in full. If you still don't see how this is intentional murder, I suggest you apply for membership in your local KKK chapter -- assuming you're not already a member.

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by mhajicek on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:48PM

        by mhajicek (51) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:48PM (#1002345)

        I don't have the link handy (on my phone) but search for the additional video that was released later. They had him in the car, looked like they were beating him there, then they brought him back out to kill him.

        --
        The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:21PM (1 child)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:21PM (#1002431) Journal
        In addition, even with that damning video evidence, it took the prosecutors four days to get around to charging anyone. If a gangbanger did that, they'd have them arrested immediately, at least for assault and battery, and locked up - subject to bail. They wouldn't give them four days to skip town.

        My take is that they waited as long as they possibly could. The prosecutor was probably hoping that blood work would show Floyd was doped to the gills so the case could be dropped. When that fell through and pressure from the protests/riots had built up too high, only then did they arrest anyone.

        Nobody here would get that kind of courtesy.
        • (Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:31AM

          by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:31AM (#1002551)

          Seems like the protesters should be going after the prosecutor's house, and the police union chief, and other such people.

      • (Score: 2) by qzm on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:00AM (1 child)

        by qzm (3260) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:00AM (#1002595)

        So, I guess thats why the guy who did it is being charged with murder?

        So... whats missing? Criminal cop does criminal thing and is being criminally charged.
        Perhaps I'm missing something here?

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:17AM

          by sjames (2882) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:17AM (#1002603) Journal

          You're missing that he was only charged after immense pubblic pressure. They still took 4 days to decide to charge him in spite of more than sufficient evidence for an indictment. Unlike any non-cop in America suspected of anything, they went for the minimum credible charge. Three other officers who had a duty to stop Chauvin before he killed Floyd still haven't been charged even though they not only didn't help Floyd, they prevented bystanders from doing so (making them active accomplices). One has left the state, one has left the area.

          Based on history, Citizens fear that prosecutors will take a dive.

          I think that about sums it up.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:49PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:49PM (#1002468)

      I predict this thread [...] it's probably not going to be very nice.

      That said it seems that Floyd once was something of a career-criminal back in Texas. I guess it shouldn't matter, but it somehow makes it harder to feel sorry for him even if he has served his time and he might not have deserved to die for his previous crimes.

      Well you didn't need to predict it. You went, literally, straight there.

      he might not have deserved to die

      He might not have deserved to die? He might not have deserved to die? You are evil and I hope you die soon, or drastically change your personality thereby killing "this" you.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:28PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:28PM (#1002486)

        Death cult.

        Even the more reasonable Republicans tend to be very gung-ho and treat the death of others like it is no big deal. And here I thought their otto was Pro-Life. Womp womp.

        • (Score: 2) by qzm on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:02AM (2 children)

          by qzm (3260) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:02AM (#1002597)

          So, you are saying the people bring murdered (note the plural) are being murdered by Republicans?

          You are saying Republicans are supporting those riots, which are killing people?

          Interesting theory.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:01AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:01AM (#1002612)

            Nope, but obviously you know that so I am not going to bother.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @08:53AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @08:53AM (#1002655)

              It's all Runaway's fault. He wanted this boogaloo to keep black and brown folks from taking his children's future. Republican death-eaters, followers of MoldaTrump.

    • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:04AM (2 children)

      by Booga1 (6333) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:04AM (#1002614)

      It also somehow puts the American image to shame to, I would have expected more armed people defending themselves and their property with lethal force

      Lethal force is only needed very rarely. A couple of points regarding that image and the current situation...

        - Most of the riots are in commercial districts, thus most buildings and businesses are property of corporations. Would you expect the manager of Old Navy to show up to defend that store? I wouldn't.
        - Counterpoint to the above: Some armed people are showing up to keep the stores from being looted. [twitter.com]
        - Most looters aren't stupid enough to throw their lives away for a TV or cellphone, but there is at least one case of lethal force used [washingtontimes.com] to defend a gun store.

      On the police side of things:

        - The police have been arresting and shooting reporters. At least one was shot in the face, blinding them. [vox.com]
        - The police have been caught breaking shit. [imgur.com]
        - Pointlessly shoving old dudes around. [imgur.com]
        - Hauling people out of their cars using excessive force. [npr.org]

      Who are you going to call for help in those situations? The police?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:16PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:16PM (#1002835)

        https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh2OM1I6Fx8mtk9a7P [worldstarhiphop.com]

        He does walk and talk like a cop. Didn't take anything either.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:48PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:48PM (#1002887) Journal

          He does walk and talk like a cop.

          And only cops can possibly walk and talk that way? I think the more useful evidence is the simularity of the exposed part of his face to a particular police officer (Jacob Pederson [heavy.com], who allegedly has an alibi for the time in question). It's very different when you have a match to a real person rather than vague impressions of the way he walks.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by EJ on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:31PM (11 children)

    by EJ (2452) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:31PM (#1002332)

    These riots aren't about Mr. Floyd. Sure, they should have arrested the murderer right away, but they did arrest him. They charged them. There is nothing to really riot about until we get the verdict and the sentence.

    These riots are about anger and frustration. Mr. Floyd's murder was just the tipping point. It was the thing that lit the fuse on a bomb that was already about to go off anyway. These riots are about the overwhelming atmosphere of dread that has surrounded the world during this viral lockdown.

    If Mr. Floyd had been killed this same time last year with the same resulting arrests and charges of murder on the thugs who killed him, I doubt there would have been any riots at all.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:53PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:53PM (#1002350)

      These protests are about anger and frustration with police use of deadly force, which was on full display in this case. Mr. Floyd's murder was just the tipping point. It was the thing that lit the fuse on a bomb that was already about to go off anyway.

      There. FTFY.

      The violence/destruction (don't confuse peaceful protest with rioting) are being perpetrated by several different groups, none of who are related to the *protestors*. Those groups include some who wish to discredit the peaceful protestors, some who want to foment chaos, division and disorder, and some who are just taking advantage of the protests and the cover of darkness to loot and destroy.

      I'll say it again. Peaceful protest != rioting.

      The hundreds of thousands around the US who are peacefully protesting should *not* be conflated with the few hundred or so who are using these protests to sow division and cover their criminal actions.

      • (Score: 2) by EJ on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:24AM

        by EJ (2452) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:24AM (#1002513)

        No. You didn't fix anything. I used the correct word. The [b]RIOTS[/b] are not about Mr. Floyd. The protests are not what I'm talking about at all.

    • (Score: 2) by helel on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:55PM (1 child)

      by helel (2949) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:55PM (#1002352)

      They fired him but refused to charge him until the precinct was burned down. Only when it became clear they needed to do something did they slap some charges on Chauvin. Even now the other two officers who helped him commit murder remain uncharged and the third who protected them while they did it hasn't been charged as an accessory. The question now is how much longer the protests need to continue before the other three officers are forced to account for their crime.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:37AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:37AM (#1002585)

        Then mayors and police leaders sent out the BLUE LINE TERRORIST (BLT). At which point you have lost the city, becuase you just said "Fuck you, know your place! We will beat you back to place. Tow the fucking line and shut-up!"

        Where the police joined the marchers and showed support to citizens. Those did not get out of hand.

        Any police officer in the BLT... should be fired, period. You do not follow illegal actions and beat and kill those you are there to protect. This includes every National Guard and Military. Agaian you do not harm the those you swore to protect and serve.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:57PM

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:57PM (#1002355)

      These riots are about the overwhelming atmosphere of dread that has surrounded the world during this viral lockdown.

      There is no overwhelming atmosphere of dread where I live.

      I'm really sorry that things have got this bad in America, but where I live the message has been "be nice" and by and large people have been.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:20PM (#1002430)

      Yeah no, the lockdown made a larger group of people available to protest that is all.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:31PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:31PM (#1002488)

      The protests are part of a plot to destabilize and destroy Black America.

      Trump deliberately inflamed the situation on Twitter, ensuring an angry response on the streets. The protesters spread coronavirus to each other, especially after they lose their masks or tear gas gets fired at them. The coronavirus spreads deeper into black communities, which are disproportionately affected. Meanwhile, black-owned businesses get raided and burned down by looters. They leave the community and the land gets bought up by the rich. Finally, Trump authorizes the troops to massacre protesters on the streets.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @10:30PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @10:30PM (#1002970)

        Lol! This is awesome. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. Also, where can I buy this virus you mention that can target people of color? I'd like to buy some tailored for a different color. White is a color right? Asking for a friend of course.

    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:09AM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:09AM (#1002510)

      Sure, they should have arrested the murderer right away, but they did arrest him.

      But not his accomplices. Because when you have 1 guy committing a murder, and 3 guys standing around making sure nobody else can stop him from committing a murder, legally you have 4 murderers.

      I agree the protests aren't completely about 1 murder though. For instance, the major city nearest me has had many cases of cops murdering black people, and the closest thing to a punishment that has been doled out was 1 of them being fired (he was hired by another department in the state, and is still working as a cop).

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:40AM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:40AM (#1002632)
      In the space of a week or so three unarmed black people were shot dead with demonstrations needed to take the cases seriously. Meanwhile, we were just at the ‘i want a haircut!’ phase of COVID and one fresh breakout from sputtering out. I can’t say you’re wrong about the reason the protests took off, but it was only a few short years ago we had protests for the same reason and damned if the American public didn’t get plenty of evidence that not a damn thing has been fixed. Yes, this is totally about George Floyd, only he’s just one of a very long list that keeps growing without slowing down. Now the one thing I bet we would agree on is that COVID probably made a lot more people available to attend.
      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:21PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:21PM (#1002750) Journal

      Two years ago in Brooklyn Eric Garner was strangled to death by a white cop who put him in a choke hold. He kept gasping, "I can't breathe." (That's where the "I can't breathe" meme began). He was not resisting arrest. The cop was not charged. Nobody rioted.

      So I rather agree with you that this is not about George Floyd or cops killing anyone, but about underlying anger and frustration.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:33PM (52 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:33PM (#1002334)

    Simple question.

    I don't entirely understand what the protesters hope to achieve. Justice was already served in this case, extremely rapidly. And these sort of cases are becoming increasingly rare. You're never going to see a 0% incident rate anymore than you could protest your way to a 0% murder rate. So what is success, exactly, and how do these protests get you there?

    I always see people say things like "raise awareness" but I think that's not a very compelling response for two reasons. The first is that the vast majority of all people are already quite well informed, like it or not, on this issue. The second is probably an even bigger issue. These protests are mostly just giving way to bad actors who have successfully turned them into riots. Whatever awareness is being raised here is more about folks running around hurting, looting, and destroying others' property. And I think that is almost certainly having the exact opposite sort of 'awareness' being raised.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:31PM (6 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:31PM (#1002755) Journal

        Are you advocating the abolition of police, or arguing against it? Your first link does the latter, at least two of the others are on the other side.

        Regardless, many people who have not experienced violence first hand, but have only seen it on TV, tend to think of it as fictional. They are not personally violent, so they can't imagine that other people are; it must be somebody else's fault that those people are violent. So they think that if everybody is spoken to gently and are allowed to have their way, even if it's to somebody else's detriment, that there will be no violence in the world and police won't be necessary. Somehow, a psychopath or a person hopped up on drugs or alcohol or who intends to do violence to control or intimidate, can be stopped with a well-reasoned argument and a caring attitude.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @08:30PM (3 children)

          by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Wednesday June 03 2020, @08:30PM (#1002927) Journal

          It's an answer to the question "what do the protesters hope to achieve?" That's probably what it would take to satisfy the protesters (immediately). Advocacy for police abolition predates the protests and has been gaining slight traction. Probably a lot more in the past week.

          If you turn it into a numbers game, it might work. Abolish police entirely, and you get zero police brutality and deaths by police. Redirect the funds into helpful programs. See what happens. Maybe the assumed rise in crime is offset by other factors. One way to modify the strategy is to make sure lots of people have access to guns, which is the position of the National African American Gun Association.

          As NRA membership wanes, America's largest black gun group is thriving [cbsnews.com]

          This can be tried out in a single community.

          --
          [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:55AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:55AM (#1003003)

            English common law emerged from natural law because of the killing and blood feuds. The US was founded on common law principles and police were a development meant to deter crime. I'm all for holding the police to account but abolition would result in a huge increase in deaths from self-defense, it's not realistic.

            Gun sales are hitting record highs BTW.

          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:22PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:22PM (#1003197) Journal

            The only thing that you get in the absence of police is a rise of vigilantism and a general dissolution in law & order. Organized crime will explode, and we'll have Mexican drug cartels beheading entire towns in the American heartland, because there's nobody there to stop them. No shop owner will dare to open his doors because looters will descend and take what they want. It's lunacy. The world's sole superpower would instantly become Somalia.

            But we don't have to speculate about what would happen. We know. The "Wild, Wild West" was wild because there was no effective police force. If you had a feud with someone, you shot them or rounded up your buddies and cousins and hanged them.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:42PM (1 child)

          by acid andy (1683) on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:42PM (#1003158) Homepage Journal

          So they think that if everybody is spoken to gently and are allowed to have their way, even if it's to somebody else's detriment, that there will be no violence in the world and police won't be necessary. Somehow, a psychopath or a person hopped up on drugs or alcohol or who intends to do violence to control or intimidate, can be stopped with a well-reasoned argument and a caring attitude.

          Could it be that when the psychopaths grow up in poverty, in a neglected area, violence is the easiest way to get what they want. If they're given more opportunities in life, they could wind up as a CEO instead, and subjugate thousands instead! Or run for president... When you're powerful enough, other people will do the violence for you and it will be dressed up as right and proper.

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:06PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:06PM (#1003189) Journal

            The people pushing these policies, which will be catastrophically disastrous, believe that, contrary to all of human history and other available evidence, that humanity is perfectible, and that some day everybody will greet each other with happy smiles and sit down to tea to work out their differences. It's fantasy.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by tizan on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:57PM (1 child)

      by tizan (3245) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:57PM (#1002354)

      Protests is the mark of a boiling point...

      talking of other context
      The French or revolution for e.g was not just organized rebellion ....it was the building up of frustration and lack of any hope and not seeing any improvement in ones life...
      if you are hungry and there is no food and you see the royalty enjoying riches and you have no hope of improving your life...
      Now some people can build on that frustration to build a better tomorrow for those that are suffering or not....Liberte, Egalite et Fraternite may give some hope...whether they achieved it in the end ...but it changed thing from "Meh the poor can die who cares".

      If this leads to better economic, educational opportunities to poor black neighborhoods and better education for cops to treat humans as humans and respect the law...that wiil be good

      • (Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:42PM

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:42PM (#1002760) Journal

        The French more or less got there eventually, but they had to go through the Robespierre Terror, Napoleonic Wars, Restoration of the old Monarchy, Napoleon again, a second restoration of the monarchy, and a series of see-saw lurches from a republic to monarchy and back again for the better part of a century.

        It was not a case of:

        Step 1. Storm the Bastille
        Step 2. Freedom!

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:04PM (#1002358)

      I don't entirely understand what the protesters hope to achieve. Justice was already served in this case, extremely rapidly. And these sort of cases are becoming increasingly rare. You're never going to see a 0% incident rate anymore than you could protest your way to a 0% murder rate. So what is success, exactly, and how do these protests get you there?

      Actually, the number of people killed by police has remained pretty stable [fivethirtyeight.com], although urban areas are seeing a drop off and suburban/rural areas are seeing an increase in people killed by police.

      If you actually pay attention to what the protestors are saying, they don't have a unified message -- mostly because this is a grassroots effort that doesn't have a single leader. Most will first say that they want to see the other three involved officers charged as well. Beyond that, you get a lot of different goals, with the primary one being "stop killing us."

      "Stop killing us." Hmm...That seems a worthy goal. And the George Floyd *murder* is a stark reminder that the police are indeed, still "killing us."

      And for any of you who brush this off with "he was just a criminal who got what he deserved," I'd say that he was *alleged* to have committed a non-violent offense (passing a counterfeit bill) and was never formally charged or tried.

      Is murdering someone accused of a crime the hallmark of a free society? No. It's not. And it's not the kind of society I want to live in.

      Sadly, this sort of thing is far too common. It needs to stop. Now. Claiming that peaceful protests are somehow wrong further moves us away from the ideals of a constitutional republic. That's not the country I wish to live in.

      For those who *purport* to love liberty, this should be a wake-up call to you. And not just because that could just as easily have been you or someone you love.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:07PM (5 children)

      by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:07PM (#1002359)

      There have been too many cases of white cops and black corpses, and the cops getting away with it. Plus, everyone has been cooped up, seething, feeling bad about themselves and situation, etc. It all reached critical mass and boom.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:00AM (4 children)

        by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:00AM (#1002640) Homepage

        Statistically, there are more cops vs white corpses (4 per 100,000 incidents, vs 3 for blacks). And black cops are more likely to shoot a black perp than are white cops. You can look it up on the FBI's crime stats pages. Meanwhile, blacks commit about 5x more serious crimes, so should they not expect more problems with cops? Maybe getting their fathers back would fix the culture; certainly coddling has not.

        But you're right that it was the wrong thing at the wrong time, and BOOM. Except even so, why are we letting these destructive mobs get away with it? how does burning down your own city help anyone?? And how will it change racial perceptions? Not for the better. :(

        --
        And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:01PM (3 children)

          by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:01PM (#1002740)

          See, martyb and other admins? This Reziac guy is ruining this perfectly good insanity with actual facts. He's trying to steal the discussion's mojo!

          Jesting aside, you constantly hear in the news how the percentage of incarcerated blacks is so much higher than for whites. And the few times that someone mentions that blacks commit more crimes by percentage, it's always the whites' faults for oppressing them.

          In college in the '80s I was very underfunded, and kept trying to get the financial aid people to, well, aid me financially (crazy of me, I know). They got to know me so well that one day they said, and I'll never forget this: "if you were black or Hispanic, all kinds of money would be available to you."

          So please remind me, what does "oppression" mean?

          As to the destructive mobs, well, my take is simple: humans exhibit a very wide-range of personalities and behaviors. Some are very reserved, controlled, polite (well, few anymore), and some are very demonstrative, boisterous, act out. I think the coronavirus lockdowns are causing people to brood and seethe, and some are already predisposed to violence. So within the demonstrators are a contingent of anti-social people and they just did their thing. I won't write what I would do, but I'm glad to see some citizen groups have formed various guards of some stores and other establishments. I saw in the news where one Philly gun store owner, whose store had been looted the night before, guarded his store and killed someone the 2nd night. I have to say, a store full of guns amid looting is a very bad thing. At the first sign of social unrest that store should have been emptied into an armored vehicle with many national guard and taken far away. Or something else, but not left to be looted.

           

          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:18PM (2 children)

            by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:18PM (#1002787) Homepage

            I've been somewhere below the poverty line my entire life, yet never eligible for any sort of aid. And being in the wrong profession in the wrong state, I found myself actively oppressed and my livelihood slowly destroyed. But somehow I never took to the streets, looting and torching and killing. If I had, I'd have been summarily shot.... cuz whitey should know better. These other folks, they need to vent.

            It's obvious that the majority out there had no intention of 'peaceful' protest; if they had, the first time a paid agitator threw an inciting brick, instead of monkey-see, monkey-do, the crowd would have tackled him and handed him over to police. Did you see that, anywhere a riot started? No?? whatever could be the reason??

            Agreed it would be smart to haul off and lock away any potential arms, but in a riot, guns are the least of it. Any solid object suffices for a weapon, and gasoline is everywhere, and pretty much anything is flammable. Better to stop the rioters in their tracks.

            Well, I guess now we've got one heck of an urban renewal project, shovel-ready, to make up for all the jobs that no longer exist cuz the employers got torched. I say let them who destroyed it rebuild it, on their own dime.... what? still rubble, 30 years later??

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:32PM (1 child)

              by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:32PM (#1002847)

              Great post. Yeah, it's very complicated. Wide-variety of personalities, motivations, etc. Group/mob psychology is an interesting study, and is evolving. Certainly there's a "hey, he did it, so it must be okay to do" thing happening. I even remember as a kid being "egged on", or just being with a friend and feeling it was okay to do something I would never have done on my own. It all dovetails into lynchings, Salem witch trials, countless examples of govt. brutality including genocides, etc., and really any form of government, including democratic voting. It's why the US Founding Fathers chose a representative form of govt., with a president, and you know the rest. Even before mass media existed, wise people realized that the mass public might have a mob mentality and be very wrong about something.

              Like you, I've never resorted to anything illegal. It might be somewhat due to pride, the good kind, that I don't need to resort to anti-social behavior, that I can somehow make ends meet.

              A couple of days ago I saw on the news where in a major US city there were many people out early in the day cleaning up the mess caused by the rioter/looter/arsonists, and it certainly included many black people, some of whom pointed out that they were concerned that blacks would be associated with, or blamed for the looting / arson. And there have been stories, unconfirmed of course, about whites instigating destruction, trying to encourage the mostly black crowd to join in. It'd be awesome if everyone stood back pointing fingers at the instigator. Not everything is about color.

              • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:16AM

                by Reziac (2489) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:16AM (#1003029) Homepage

                'Zac'ly so. It's painful to watch.

                Being weird, I've never done well at the mob thing; someone tries to stampede me, my reaction is to back up and take another look at what they really want. And I have that flock guardian instinct, and am more likely to be the one trying to halt the stupidity or run off an attacker.

                --
                And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by martyb on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:23PM (14 children)

      by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:23PM (#1002374) Journal

      I don't see riots as being a "path to success". There's likely no forethought about it.

      I see it as an expression of long-standing suffering and frustration.

      Have you ever worked hard towards a goal (say a promotion) and someone else who was not as well qualified got it instead of you? How did that feel?

      How about just trying to get a job? Submit countless applications and get an equal number of rejections.

      As for "Justice was already served in this case, extremely rapidly", I have to disagree. How many times have we learned of police being charged, put on administrative leave, and ultimately found not guilty? I will withhold judgement until the facts have been presented, the case argued, and the verdict read.

      As for "raising awareness", that the foregoing still happens suggests that more than just awareness is needed.

      Yes, rioting does nothing to advance their cause. I see this as misdirected, pent-up frustration and anger that is finally finding release. Like road rage for getting cut off on the highway, and chasing down the person who cut you off. It's not rational. Neither is this, but neither are these circumstances.

      I do not condone the rioting, but I can understand the circumstances that lead to it.

      --
      Wit is intellect, dancing.
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:28PM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:28PM (#1002377)

        A lot of the riots are being instigated by opportunistic groups like anarchists and white supremacists, not the people organizing the protests.

        • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:38PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:38PM (#1002449)

          A lot of black politicians and other black leaders are coming out saying that, and appropriately worried that blacks will continue to be labeled as criminals, violent, etc.

          I say, shoot the looters and arsonists. There are really only a few that instigate, and many marginal sheep that follow. Just shoot them. It'll all end quick.

        • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:40PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:40PM (#1002453)

          Please give any evidence that any significant fraction at all are white supremacists. It's all anarchists, Antifa, daughters and sons of the commie mayors presiding over this dumpster fire. Why can't the left own it?

        • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:12AM

          by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:12AM (#1002526)

          And there's also a long history of agents provocateur, who are undercover police and/or the FBI sent in to start trouble in crowds to create an excuse for the cops to attack that crowd.

          As an example: One hypothesis for why the Kent State shootings happened a little over 50 years ago is that an FBI informant was on the scene with a pistol, fired a shot at nothing in particular, and the National Guard returned fire into the crowd.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:50PM (2 children)

          by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:50PM (#1002862) Journal

          A lot of the riots are being instigated by opportunistic groups like anarchists and white supremacists, not the people organizing the protests.

          That may well be the case. Then again, it might not. Can you please provide supporting evidence of that? Being able to support that assertion would give it much more weight.

          --
          Wit is intellect, dancing.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:54PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:54PM (#1002476)

        I don't see riots as being a "path to success"

        Maybe or maybe not.

        But protests have been extremely effective at times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_March [wikipedia.org] among others.

        • (Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:34PM

          by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:34PM (#1002849) Journal

          But protests have been extremely effective at times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_March [wikipedia.org] [wikipedia.org] among others.

          Yes and no.

          From your link, the Salt March was based on Satyagraha [wikipedia.org]:

          Satyagraha (Sanskrit: सत्याग्रह; satya: "truth", āgraha: "insistence" or "holding firmly to"), or holding onto truth,[1] or truth force, is a particular form of nonviolent resistance or civil resistance. Someone who practices satyagraha is a satyagrahi.

          The term satyagraha was coined and developed by Mahatma Gandhi (1869–1948).[2] He deployed satyagraha in the Indian independence movement and also during his earlier struggles in South Africa for Indian rights. Satyagraha theory influenced Martin Luther King Jr.'s and James Bevel's campaigns during the Civil Rights Movement in the United States, and many other social justice and similar movements.[3][4]

          The riots here (at least the ones that get the media coverage) are not what I consider peaceful.

          --
          Wit is intellect, dancing.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:34PM (#1002907)

          As another user pointed out Gandhi engaged in peaceful protest, but even that I think is rarely productive. 'But India gained their freedom!' I hear you say, and that's absolutely true. But was it because of the protests? After World War 2 Britain was basically bankrupt and did not have the money to maintain their empire. Keep in mind that this was before the time of countries so overtly 'printing' money. If you wanted to maintain your empire you needed real money to do that, and the British Empire simply didn't have that money anymore. This [wikipedia.org] is a list of territories of the British Empire and when they gained their independence.

          You might notice that shortly after World War 2 the entire British Empire collapsed. And many of the countries that were granted their independence had no meaningful independence movement. More importantly however, you'll also find that the Brits started mass liberating properties in order of profitability. They tried to hold onto their more valuable properties in the West Indies/Caribbean/etc though those were also eventually were granted freedom. India was historically a very rich nation but by the 20th century it was certainly not lucrative [stackexchange.com], at the minimum, for the Brits.

          Ghandi may have helped roll the timeline ahead for India by some small amount, but the main reason India gained their independence is because the British Empire went bankrupt at a time when money meant something. It was certainly not because of protests, civil or otherwise.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:47PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:47PM (#1002762) Journal

        How about just trying to get a job? Submit countless applications and get an equal number of rejections.

        Prior to the coronavirus, employment numbers for black men were the strongest they've ever been since they began keeping labor statistics. Once the virus hit, the shutdowns instantly erased most of those jobs.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:16PM (1 child)

          by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:16PM (#1002836) Journal

          Prior to the coronavirus, employment numbers for black men were the strongest they've ever been since they began keeping labor statistics. Once the virus hit, the shutdowns instantly erased most of those jobs.

          That's good to hear. Do you have a link to that by chance? There's a saying "A rising tide lifts all boats", so I wonder how close their improved numbers got them to parity with (1) the overall rate and (2) the rate for whites?

          In other words, "strongest...ever" could conceivably be still far behind. Not saying it is/was, but only that the quoted statement allows for that. I'd like to know the real numbers.

          --
          Wit is intellect, dancing.
          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:58PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:58PM (#1003213) Journal

            I had trouble finding a historical plot of unemployment rates for black men apart from black women from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), but I found one for men from the Federal Reserve Bank that follows the trend of the aggregate for black workers from the BLS [stlouisfed.org]:

            St. Louis Fed [stlouisfed.org], note the low point in 2019, and the spike in 2020 for the pandemic lockdowns.

            I have not been able to find what the comparison was explicitly for blacks vs. whites in 2019. The closest I've come is this article [stlouisfed.org] from CNBC in 2018 that stated 5.9% unemployment for blacks. That was double the white unemployment at that time, but still the best black workers have ever done; when Barack Obama was president, unemployment for black men topped out at 19.3%, so 5.1% is a significant improvement.

            But the data, and the huge spike at the end for the pandemic lockdowns, suggests there is a significant economic component to the unrest. To me it looks like the mayors of cities like New York and the governors of states like Michigan will have destroyed black economic progress for a generation. That is what racism looks like.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:25PM (#1002376)

      Disagree.

      1) Only one of the four cops was charged. Shouldn't the other three be help accountable, though on lesser charges?

      2) There's a toxic culture in law enforcement if it's more important to have your partner's back than to intervene when your partner is clearly in the wrong. There's also the issue with disproportionate targeting of minorities and the use of force against them.

      3) It's not certain the one cop who was charged will actually be convicted. Merely charging someone with a crime is not sufficient to carry out justice.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:45PM (4 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:45PM (#1002393)

      I don't entirely understand what the protesters hope to achieve.

      Release of pent up emotional energy. They're bored, anxious, and have had waaaay too much time on their hands lately.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:25PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:25PM (#1002435)

        You're coming off as a real jackass in here. Attempts to explain why Chauvin HAD to murder Floyd because he was "resisting" and now protesters are just bored emotional people with too much time? There were similar protests in 2014 for Eric Garner, there have been similar protests happening for decades.

        Yet still cops get away with very clear murder and we keep letting them use excuses to get away with it. I think we should remove firearms from police, let them use their riot shields and group tactics to subdue criminals. Also, any death of someone in custody is a minimum of 5 years in prison, if there was an underlying cause then it is on the police to seek medical aid immediately.

        Stop downplaying these events please.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:43PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:43PM (#1002458)

          No question Chauvin used excessive force, and had total disregard for Floyd's well being, but no way did Chauvin intend to kill Floyd. No way. Disregard for life to the point of criminality, yes, absolutely, but labeling intent is 1) insane and 2) zero chance of being upheld in court.

          However, somewhere news said the 2 of them had worked together, so it'd be interesting to learn about their past interactions. That could shed light on intent, and must be investigated.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:57PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:57PM (#1002480)

            but no way did Chauvin intend to kill Floyd. No way

            He intended to apply force of lethal degree. Whether or not the actual death was intended, the infliction of lethal-degree harm clearly was intended. He was told George Floyd was bleeding from the nose and unconscious and he continued to apply force that he knew would likely lead to permanent brain damage.

            If there had been no video he would've gotten away with literal murder.

            Anyways, tl;dr you're a troll and lying.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:21PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:21PM (#1002901) Journal
            If the events of the case are as presented, sure. But there's this interesting news story [cbsnews.com] out there that the two, Floyd and Chauvin may have known each other.

            George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, the former police officer charged with killing Floyd, worked security at the same local club for much of the year before their fatal encounter on a Minneapolis street last week. The owner of El Nuevo Rodeo said the two were in close proximity once a week for their Tuesday night shifts, though she did not know if they ever actually met while working at the club.

            Maya Santamaria said she had been paying Chauvin, when he was off-duty, to sit in his squad car outside El Nuevo Rodeo for 17 years. She said Floyd worked as a security guard inside the club frequently in the last year. In particular, they both worked on Tuesday nights, when the club had a popular weekly dance competition.

            That's quite a coincidence and leads to the possibility that Chauvin may have had a motive for killing Floyd - such as Floyd owing money or being a witness to something. For example, consider this scenario: Chauvin and the rest have this good thing going - drugs, protection racket, theft of police resources, whatever; Floyd who gets in on this action becomes unreliable when he drinks; this group of cops hear the 911 operator call out about a drunk man causing trouble and figure it could be Floyd; they call in to become the first responders; then when they get there and rough him up a bit, they determine he's too dangerous to let live; and Chauvin kills him while pretending to merely engage in a bit of police brutality for the cameras. That's Murder One though it might be very hard to prove if the police aren't interested in investigating it. In another thread [soylentnews.org], I stated that I thought it likely that Chauvin merely intended serious harm to Floyd and accidentally killed him. But this could be a case of crooked cops and a problem that needed erasing. In which case, the murder may well be premeditated.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:08PM (9 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:08PM (#1002419)

      These protests are mostly just giving way to bad actors who have successfully turned them into riots

      BZZZT! Wrong.

      Hundreds of thousands of peaceful protestors *continue* to protest peacefully. While a few hundred bad actors attempt to use that as cover, whether to discredit the protestors (kind of like you're trying to do) or to use the cover of night (most looting is happening far from where protests are occurring) to engage in criminal activity.

      Protestors != Rioters
      Protestors != Looters

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:22PM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:22PM (#1002432)

        Protesters need to #StayTheFuckHome.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:27PM (6 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:27PM (#1002437)

          Protesters need to #StayTheFuckHome.

          So you are against the First Amendment, then? How authoritarian of you.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:39PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:39PM (#1002451)

            The pandemic trumps everything. Burn the Constitution. Shut it all down.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:56PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:56PM (#1002478)

              The pandemic trumps everything. Burn the Constitution. Shut it all down.

              How even more authoritarian of you. I'm sure Der Fuhrer will be pleased with you.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:07AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:07AM (#1002564)

              It's too perfect.

              We're so fucked.

              It couldn't have happened to a better species.

          • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:46PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:46PM (#1002463)

            1st Amendment gives right to speech, PEACEFULLY and legally demonstrate.

            They've made their point, and now need to repay everything and everyone they destroyed.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:55PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:55PM (#1002477)

              1st Amendment gives right to speech, PEACEFULLY and legally demonstrate.

              They've made their point, and now need to repay everything and everyone they destroyed.

              Protestors != Rioters
              Protestors != Looters

              Fuck off, asshole.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:17AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:17AM (#1002546)

              Just as soon as the police give Floyd his life back.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @10:38AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @10:38AM (#1002668)

          "Protesters need to #StayTheFuckHome."

          Interesting. I wonder what your take is on this story? [bbc.com]

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:47PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:47PM (#1002465) Journal

      Justice was already served in this case, extremely rapidly.

      Not rapidly enough to keep the precinct building from burning down, I see. They could have had the guy arrested on lesser charges that night (like assault). Instead, they delayed as much as they could for four days.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Username on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:07AM (2 children)

      by Username (4557) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:07AM (#1002509)

      These aren't protesters. Anyway, antifa wants to overthrow the "capitalist" government and institute a communist dictatorship under Bernie Sanders. Those random gang members would steal and kill anyway. Should see the videos of them trying to go down streets controlled by the latin kings. Those mexicans shot them before they even got out of their car.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:09AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:09AM (#1002565)

        this is so misinformed i can't even

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:25AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:25AM (#1003035)

          It is misinformed on the Bernie part. "Liberals get the bullet too." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3otTkPVMAEBiEb.jpg [twimg.com]

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:45PM (8 children)

    by PiMuNu (3823) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:45PM (#1002341)

    Crazy world. The US government is in the process of *declaring protesters are terrorists* and *moving troops onto the streets to suppress political protests*

    • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:10PM (1 child)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:10PM (#1002363)

      Yup.

      I have just finished reading a book about the 1956 Hungarian Revolution, and it strikes me there are some parallels.

      The Hungarian Revolution started with no actual leaders, just a whole bunch of people who were sick of the status quo and saw no other way of improving their lot.

      Of course, the US is not under the thumb of some foreign power, so the comparison is not perfect.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:00PM (#1002410)

        I'd say the US government is well under the thumb of non-democratically controlled powers. It's just that these powers have a residential addresses inside the country and many PO boxes outside of it, but as far as the official US representational structure is concerned, they might as well be foreign.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:56PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:56PM (#1002405)

      Yup. Your DOTUS has already been talking about deploying the military domestically. That police state is coming along nicely, don't you think?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:48PM (#1002467)

        Heaven forbid! I sure don't want THAT.
        Better let the states handle it all by themselves. They are doing a great job; it's totally under control.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:50PM (#1002470)

        Don't worry, checks and balances comes to the rescue! Republican Senators are expressing "unease" and "disappointment" and some even go as far as saying that they "wish he would stop tweeting that stuff." I hear Susan Collins believes that after all the dust settles on this, that Trump will probably have learned a lesson.

        Powerful stuff to see those bulwarks of liberty defend the strength of the republic!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:35PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:35PM (#1002445)

      Protesters peacefully march and yell and get attention.
      Terrorists loot, kill, maim, and set fire to buildings and churches.
      Not such a difficult concept.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:25AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:25AM (#1002579)

        Then please explain why so many protesters are getting assaulted and arrested along with 100+ news crews in under a week.

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:54PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:54PM (#1002770) Journal

      The US government is in the process of *declaring protesters are terrorists*

      The US government is moving to declare Antifa a terrorist organization, because they are perpetrating political violence. Are you saying that all the protesters are members of Antifa, or that political violence is the same thing as peaceful protest?

      and *moving troops onto the streets to suppress political protests*

      Moving troops onto the streets to stop violence, looting, and vandalism, which are not "political protests." They are crimes. Moving troops onto the street, because the mayors have stood down the police and the governors have not called out the National Guard. Or do you want violent protesters to be able to burn down your building with your family in it? Do you think they'll stop to thoughtfully consider your pleas about how you're on their side?

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by SomeGuy on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:47PM (6 children)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:47PM (#1002344)

    There really are some technical aspects of this mess that could be discussed.

    Watching some of the protesting/rioting on broadcast TV the other day when they first announced a curfew, it just seemed strange to me that they could not seem to get the message across to the protesters. I think there were some police with bullhorns, but this was over a wide enough area, that was not effective. One of the talking heads was lamenting that the protesters couldn't see their broadcast. Even 10 years ago, many people would have at least carried FM radios. Back in the late 80s and 90s there were even pocket televisions.

    But instead everyone is waving around their toy cell phones. Apparently not interrupted by any kind of jamming. Probably not receiving any kind of alert unless they were already "signed up" for crap. And all probably using wildly different streaming, video, or web services. (If it were me, I would have knocked out all of their cell phones, that would have taken most of their fun out of recording people doing stupid shit).

    Alternately, that would have been a good place for drones with loudspeakers. (Or just put blinking blue LEDs on them, and everyone would just follow them in to a river :P ).

    If they were hoping for the de-militarization of police that kind of backfired.

    There has been a lot of talk now about facial recognition. (running it through the DMV my ass, we all know they have massive databases from all kinds of other sources). After all of this, I fully expect a huge push for facial recognition in every nook and cranny of our lives.

    • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:11PM (2 children)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:11PM (#1002365)

      The protesters knew about the curfew and were ignoring it.

      • (Score: 1) by charon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:34AM (1 child)

        by charon (5660) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:34AM (#1002583) Journal
        Civil disobedience.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @12:41PM (#1002695)

          By flouting the curfew, the "peaceful protestors" were giving cover to the rioters with their numbers. The "peaceful protestors" are ENABLING the rioters and preventing the police from stopping them. They are complicit. Go home, fucking morons.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:50PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:50PM (#1002398)

      I got a curfew notice on my cellphone - like an Amber alert (which, I thought I had turned all those off, I guess this one was higher priority) - at 4pm and again at 7:30pm for the 8pm curfew.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:52PM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:52PM (#1002401)

      Probably not receiving any kind of alert unless they were already "signed up" for crap.

      That shook a few neurons up about the Presidential Alert system [independent.co.uk], (no, not Twitter :-). I guess nobody reminded him about that before he decided to send the military/National Guard everywhere.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:53PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:53PM (#1002402)

      that would have been a good place for drones with loudspeakers. (Or just put blinking blue LEDs on them, and everyone would just follow them in to a river :P ).

      Must be 10 years ago now, we were studying "psy ops" drone tech, beepers, loudspeakers, etc. to use for crowd control. Surprised we haven't seen any of that.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
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