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from the Be-Charming. Like-a-Prince. From-Venus. dept.
Tricia Romano reports at the Seattle Times that Susie Lee and Katrina Hess have developed Siren, a new online dating app designed to protect against men who inundate women with messages that are by turns gross, hilarious, objectifying and just plain sad. As online dating options have grown, Lee noticed that her friends' frustration did, too: With every good introduction often came a slew of lewd ones. "I just started looking (at online dating options) and very quickly realized how many things are out there and how immediately my 'creepy meter' went up," Lee says. Lee hopes to change the nature of the messages and put women in the driver’s seat.
The free iPhone app, currently launched to a select market in Seattle in August, allows women to peruse men’s pictures and their answers to the “Question of the Day” (“You found a magic lamp and get three wishes. What are they?”) and view their Video Challenges (“Show us a hidden gem in Seattle”). If a woman is suitably impressed by a man’s answers, she can make herself visible to him. Only then can he see what she looks like. "It’s a far more thoughtful — and cautious — approach than the one taken by the dating app of the moment, Tinder, which is effectively a “hot or not” game, with little information beyond a few photos, age and volunteered biographical tidbits," writes Romano. "And the implicit notion that it’s a “hookup” app can be uncomfortable for some women." Lee and Hess are betting that men are less shallow and want more repartee. And they know that women want a little more flirtation than crude references. After all, Siren’s motto is “Charm Someone’s Pants Off.” “Before the ‘pants off,’ it’s more about charming someone,” says Hess. “Be charming.”
(Score: 3, Interesting) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Sunday October 05 2014, @03:53PM
I know nothing about dating, and am not qualified to comment on any story about dating and romance, but maybe someone more clued-in than myself can explain why this isn't so dumb it makes your head hurt.
There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention? If dating sites are creepy, go somewhere else. Not like you don't know what you're going to get, right? Not having a picture basically is an admission that anyone who saw you wouldn't be attracted, since from the little bit I've seen over the years, even mildly attractive people put pictures online. My point is the females who use this app aren't going to be any different than the females who don't, so what value does this app add? Jumping through hoops answering questions isn't going to be something men want to do, it is?
Anyhow, after seeing how stupid dating is, I think I'm going to stick with the Buddhist thing and take the five - seven - how many precepts can you take? After an article like this, I want to take all of them. The problem is, even after going away and meditating on dukkha for a few weeks, when I come back, the news is even nuttier than it was when I left!
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 1) by basicbasicbasic on Sunday October 05 2014, @04:55PM
Life pro tip to men who haven't worked it out yet: Treat women as human beings, respond to what they say, be interested. Once you are accepted as not being creepy, then you are allowed to mention they look beautiful. That's how it works and there's nothing dumb about it.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:54PM
I agree with your post. However...
I suspect that a lot of those so-called "creeps" aren't really all that creepy, they're just using a strategy which offers the best bang for the effort they put in.
Women demand that a guy be "charming" and really be into the flirtation process. Okay, fine, but are you as a woman worth flirting with? Do you know what's going on in the world, do you have any neat skills or hobbies besides pop-culture? Are you gonna help me maintain the flow of conversation or do you expect me to do all the work? Do you have enough common-sense to know that life is not like a romantic comedy and soap opera and that I have other things to do besides sit on my trust fund and roll around the spring fields with you all day?
Women, including the female friends I know and fuck in real life, are always complaining about how many guys are just nasty creepers. I complain about how most women are dumb and vapid bitches not worth putting all of the effort into, especially when you know they're also talking to other guys in the online dating world.
In case you're wondering, I do online dating the right way -- I am courteous, funny, read their profile and find common ground, keep the message ratio to 1:1 so as not to come off as a clinger, take them out, offer to buy dinner on the second date, and go out with them on a regular basis so they feel special. Man, if only they knew the kind of shit I post here. Tee-Hee!
But the not of the problem is that, for various historical and cultural reasons, people perceive women to be the "gatekeepers," that women can be more choosy because more men are after them. Both men and women believe it, too, even though it's utter bullshit. The population distribution in your average first-world country is roughly half male, half female, so there's no need for people to continue perpetuating the myth that women are somehow more valuable than men.
For example, I know some decent single women who hear their biological clock ticking and want to have a kid, but they have little options. They aren't perfect enough to get stuck to as more and more men are deciding that having kids is just a pain in the ass and they don't want to do it. Who are the "gatekeepers" now? Or do you just not want to put any effort into dating online like we do? You've met at least a few great guys already, right? So why didn't your relationships last? Do you think, maybe, that you're not nearly as valuable as you originally thought? That clock is still ticking, dear. Don't let all those bad, nasty messages you're getting inflate your ego. You're attracting crap, and a lot of it. Perhaps you should take the initiative and reach out to men you like rather than vise-versa? Hint: You get a LOT of points for making the first move as a woman.
(Score: 2) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:41PM
"Treat women as human beings" - there's got to be something better than this, right? It'll never catch on. Requires too much work and investment, and once you start doing that, it's harder to objectify them. Isn't there a magic formula like the Google-founder book has for companies?
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:22PM
Recipe for getting friendzoned? If she thinks you're looking for a scrapbooking partner in the first 30 seconds, all you'll ever get is a scrapbooking partner, forever. You've only got like 30 seconds till she decides basically forever.
I had highly mixed results in my single era trying to pick up women at womens hobby stores. "Can you help me select a birthday gift for my mom/sister/auntie" = you're getting some vs "I'd like to learn about knitting" = friendzone 4 life
"then you are allowed to mention they look beautiful."
In my limited experience you're required to compliment them or their handiwork or their job or whatever in a dignified and polite sense no matter how stupid it might sound logically, but the only way you're going to get any action after a ridiculous over the top corny pickup line is if she already decided she likes you before you made a fool of yourself or creep.
Anecdotally its interesting to watch language drift, in that a generation ago "creep" was strictly visual and referred to staring at the assets too much, staring at anything other than her eyes. Someone who used laughably bad over the top pickup lines or just generally awful technique in general was more of a "dork" or "loser". Whipping out the ole bratwurst, or pix of it, was just called harassment in ye olden days, interesting that its now semi-accepted, at least accepted as and now called "creep" behavior. So dumb question for youthful commenters, if "creep" now means weiner pix instead of staring at the assets, what is the 2010s term for staring at her assets, possibly while drooling? (Could be same word with two defs of course)
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday October 05 2014, @08:35PM
So dumb question for youthful commenters, if "creep" now means weiner pix instead of staring at the assets, what is the 2010s term for staring at her assets, possibly while drooling? (Could be same word with two defs of course)
I'm not that youthful, but I'm guessing the answer is "normal behavior" for that age group.
(Score: 1) by basicbasicbasic on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:24PM
Definitely, I'm not saying that treating someone like a human being means you can't show you're interested.
But anyway... this is tech news site not a dating site.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday October 05 2014, @09:59PM
this is tech news site not a dating site
What we need is an RFID token for people to carry around with an NFC smartphone app that explains if a theoretical member of the appropriate gender is within range and interested in what the app owner is looking for. "just fun hookup" or whatever. And the physical token needs an "off" switch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:08PM
You realize you just described grindr and tinder, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:10PM
Hint: if "friendzone" is part of your mental model for interacting with women, then there's a good chance that you're a creep.
but the only way you're going to get any action after a ridiculous over the top corny pickup line is if she already decided she likes you before you made a fool of yourself or creep.
Or, put simply, people who are attracted to you are attracted to you. Modeling dating as adversarial is unlikely to go well.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by kaszz on Sunday October 05 2014, @05:55PM
"There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention?"
The point is to spam their environment with courtship signals. That unwanted men give them attention is just a side effect of the tool.
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Sunday October 05 2014, @06:28PM
There are some curious exceptions to that rule:-
Admittedly, an account without a clear picture might belong to an ugly person but, to counter that, an attractive picture might have some relationship with the account owner.
1702845791×2
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @07:10PM
I believe you are suffering from selection bias.
I've noticed more than a few women with attractive pictures on pof turn them off after a few weeks. Occasionally they will go halfway and just disable the more flattering photos and keep the ones that are more obscured. I tend to bookmark the good looking ones (after they pass a google image search to verify they are not forgeries). Then I'll come back to their profiles a few weeks later to see if they are still around, if they've filled in any details that make them sound like more than just a pretty face, etc. Sure lots of them keep their pictures visible, probably even a majority, but I've seen plenty who have disabled them too.
You probably don't do that, so you are unlikely to notice when a pretty woman decides her looks are drawing too many flies and that maybe she needs to cut back on the honey and go with more vinegar.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 05 2014, @11:14PM
There's a whole industry of making females look attractive (makeup, fashion magazines, etc) so isn't the whole point that they want to advertise themselves to attract attention?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. People dress themselves different ways for lots of reasons; attracting sexual partners is only one reason that may or may not be in play for a particular person. Even a woman wearing revealing clothing may be doing so for reasons other than attracting men. Maybe it's hot out. Maybe she just likes dressing that way. Maybe she wants to attract women.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 06 2014, @05:10AM
They have basically come up with an app that acts as a spam filter. Why does that concept make your head hurt?
I'm afraid that cuts both ways. If you act creepy, don't be surprised that you get a lot of rejections.
No, it is actually a recognition that they are getting too many guys respond with "ZOMG!!! You look gorgeous! I must show you my dick!"
It would seem that the point is that if guys want to get to know these women then they will have to jump through these hoops. Whether the women can actually get the guys to actually do this remains to be seen.
Yes, life is strange. It is those who can adapt who will learn to survive. Stay safe out there!