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posted by martyb on Saturday April 10, @02:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the people-have-spoken dept.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/the-amazon-union-drive-in-alabama-appears-headed-for-defeat/

Update: A majority of workers have voted not to form a union at the Amazon Fulfillment Center in Bessemer, Alabama. The result of the NLRB's initial vote count was 1,798 votes against the union and 738 in favor. Hundreds of additional ballots were not counted because their authenticity was disputed. But the "no" side already has a majority of the 3,215 votes cast, making the issue moot.

Original story, April 8: A closely watched effort to unionize an Amazon fulfillment center in Bessemer, Alabama appears to be headed for defeat. With about half the votes counted, 1,100 workers have voted against forming a union, while only 463 voted in favor.

The National Labor Relations Board is counting the 3,215 votes that were cast by workers at the Bessemer facility. The union needs to win at least half the votes in order to become the official representative of the roughly 6,000 workers at the Bessemer facility. Counting has ended for the evening and is scheduled to resume at 8:30 am Central Time on Friday.

Also at The Washington Post, c|net, and Al Jazeera.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11, @02:57AM (16 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11, @02:57AM (#1135891) Journal

    There are so many fallacies in here I don't even know where to begin.

    I suppose that "enjoy your police union" one is a good starting point. The fallacy here is "one type of union seems to have done us more harm than good, ergo, all unions are bad." This neglects the problems with the culture of policing in the US, which taint the entire enterprise; is it any surprise even their unions become full of self-serving thugs when things like "qualified immunity" are on the table to begin with? Or, put another way, the police union is a subset of "people who want to be, and are, cops." Think about the kind of people who fall into "people who want to be, and are, cops." The problem was there long before any police union and will continue with or without them.

    Fallacy two: anecdote is not data. This becomes less of a problem in bulk, but you've provided what is essentially a social (soft) sciences study with a population n = 1 and no defined endpoint.

    Fallacy three: the conflation of management with unions ("another later of incompetent and corrupt management"). What you fail to attend to is the fact that a functioning union is *at odds with* management. While the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, the enemy of your enemy may very well be doing useful things that benefit you when dealing with the enemy (which one I mean here is left as an exercise to the reader!).

    For my part, this job at a rather large hospital in WNY is the first time I've had a union and I absolutely love it. Yes, it means some of the workers here coast, and I notice explicitly that I do more and better work than most of them despite being here not even 6 months. But that is a price I am willing to pay for having excellent and fairly cheap insurance backed by said union, documented and extended grievance and discipline processes (no one gets fired for losing a popularity contest), and in general just knowing management can't just do whatever the hell they want.

    This security allows me to give my all for the job and the patients. The freedom from the most basic existential worries about keeping one's job or not having healthcare is amazing. Safe from this kind of needless, borderline-Lovecraftian injustice, I can pour every last erg of my effort into becoming the best technician I can be. This benefits patients, the hospital, the union itself, and the development and trajectory of my soul personally. *This is a union functioning as intended.*

    But sure, go ahead and tell yourself unions are all evil. You're doing the labor-relations equivalent of the grandsons and great-grandsons of WWII vets in the South who fly the stars and bars.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @03:15AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @03:15AM (#1135897)

    Not self-serving thugs, but thugs for hire. Otherwise, TL;DR

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @04:23AM (14 children)

    by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @04:23AM (#1135927)

    >Fallacy two: anecdote is not data

    correct. the data is the people who voted against the union. when you see this data, you apparently immediately assume "voter interference," not "oh look, these people don't want a union. you know, like my singular anecdote of "the electricians in Chicago" which also includes several thousand people.

    honestly, I didn't read the rest of your dumb rant, whatever that was. you're literally as dumb as the stop the steal retards, just on the other side of the spectrum. you are the reason people say both sides are the same. because the sides have nothing to do with being a retard. you people (you, the nazi retards, the antimask retards, the blm retards) are the group - the group of retards. within your group, you have different opinions on some things. kinda like russia and ukraine. two monkeys fighting about how different you are. to me, someone who is human, you're still a bunch of monkeys.

    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11, @04:48AM (13 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11, @04:48AM (#1135935) Journal

      You didn't read it because you have a willful reading comprehension issue. You've lived a fast life and sucked all the joy out of it; with nothing left but your own self-delusion and sense of superiority, your tiny, hollow, solipsistic worldview cannot *afford* to consider data that might show you to be wrong in even the smallest respect.

      The "data" say only what they say; I am asking about what is *is* that they say. Yes, there was a majority vote against unionizing: my question is, WHY? That is, what motivated this vote, can we be certain it was truly uncoerced, etc.?

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11, @06:43AM (4 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11, @06:43AM (#1135964) Journal
        I have to say that we have quite the slap fight in this discussion. There are many who have broken out the supple leather gloves and are delivering profound stings to the face and mighty whiffs that part the hair.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @02:25PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @02:25PM (#1136018)
          People who have never enjoyed the benefits of a union job are really not in a position to say unions are bad. A union for coders would go a long way towards eliminating crunch and forcing management to take responsibility for their screwups.
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11, @10:09PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11, @10:09PM (#1136144) Journal

            People who have never enjoyed the benefits of a union job are really not in a position to say unions are bad.

            Unless, of course, they have enjoyed the costs of a union job. That seems fairly common.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @01:27PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @01:27PM (#1136357)

            Oh boy, this old chestnut again. "You can't learn from the experience of others! Your tiny widdle brain can't do that! You have to try it first! Put on the union hat, you'll love it! Promise!"

            Quite aside from the fact that many coders weren't in that position all their lives, and have been in union positions, many more coders have been in union shops where their position just didn't happen to have been unionised. But you don't seem to think that that counts.

            If it's so great, make your pitch to Microsoft or wherever, see how that goes.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12, @12:15AM

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12, @12:15AM (#1136184) Journal

          No "we" don't. Your contribution to this fight is mostly the textual equivalent of belches and farts. Only not as amusing.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @06:10PM (3 children)

        by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @06:10PM (#1136072)

        nah, I didn't read it because you're a moron here for my entertainment, and the one line that jumped out at me from your wall of retard-text was enough for me to respond to, to laugh at you. whatever other retard-information you provided is for the birds, and useless to me, for the purpose which you serve for me by typing things here. on a related note, the first few words of the last post is also all I read. but you keep typing.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12, @12:19AM (2 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12, @12:19AM (#1136187) Journal

          Sure sure, everyone but you's a moron, placed here by the great Goddess solely for your entertainment. The entire world's disposable except you, we get it. You're the alpha-male, the top dog, the mutant offspring of Chuck Norris, Hugh Hefner, and Albert Einstein, and your power level's over 9000. You've got it alllllllll figured out. Congratulations, you won the game. *paper-squeaker noise*

          ...damn, ow. Warn me next time before you post something like that so I can do some warm-ups on the ol' eye-roller muscles.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Monday April 12, @02:23AM (1 child)

            by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday April 12, @02:23AM (#1136228)

            You are a moron. Your purpose on this site, for me, is solely for my entertainment. I have no other use for morons besides them making me entertained. For you, this site is part of "entire world" as you come here to "socialize" with your keyboard. For me, I've come to a football game to play football. You can complain all you want that football players are unbalanced adults because they attack a guy simply for having a ball, and that they should get psych treatment for whatever is making them do that. For the normal people, we're here to play football, and you're the moron who decided to have a romantic picnic in the middle of a football field, and then complain about how the people playing on that field are acting as unbalanced adults. You are retarded, so it's funny for us normals. Yes, I do have all that figured out. You, in your life, seem to have the internet confused with the physical world. Because of your stupidity, you are and will always be confused, and will always be the clown.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12, @03:57AM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12, @03:57AM (#1136244) Journal

              I didn't read that but it's pretty obvious it's more of the same. So have another -1 Troll, and remember, public masturbation is a crime.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @04:21PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @04:21PM (#1136489)

        My reading skills are better than your self-editing skills. It's hard to tell if you hate yourself more than you do any prospective reader.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:02PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:02PM (#1136513)

          It's much easier to catch errors in other people's code than to write perfect code.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:11PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:11PM (#1136518)

            A good lesson. Instead of bursting in like Crazy Uncle Mame, maybe somebody should go have a cup of coffee, and then do a good self-review (AKA sanity check).

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:44PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:44PM (#1136548)

        Ping.