China said on Friday the joint declaration with Britain over Hong Kong, which laid the blueprint over how the city would be ruled after its return to China in 1997, was a historical document that no longer had any practical significance.
In response, Britain said the declaration remained in force and was a legally valid treaty to which it was committed to upholding.
The stark announcement from the Chinese Foreign Ministry, that is sure to raise questions over Beijing’s commitment to Hong Kong’s core freedoms, came the same day Chinese President Xi Jinping said in Hong Kong the “one country, two systems” formula was recognized “by the whole world”.
It was not immediately clear if Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang was attacking just the idea of continued British involvement in Hong Kong, which marks the 20th anniversary of Chinese rule on Saturday, or the principles in the document.
Related Stories
YouTube Disables 210 Channels That Spread Disinformation About Hong Kong Protests
YouTube said on Thursday that its site was used to spread disinformation about the mass protests in Hong Kong, days after Twitter and Facebook cracked down on thousands of China-backed accounts that compared the demonstrators to terrorists and accused them of being at the whim of foreign interests.
In a blog post, YouTube said it had disabled 210 channels this week that had uploaded videos about the protests in Hong Kong. The channels had worked in a coordinated fashion to spread disinformation, the company said. YouTube, which is owned by Google, did not specify when the channels were taken down.
Shane Huntley, a software engineer on Google's threat analysis team, said the channels that were removed were "consistent with recent observations and actions related to China announced by Facebook and Twitter."
Facebook and Twitter said on Monday that they had removed thousands of accounts that originated in China and that acted together to amplify messages and images portraying Hong Kong's protesters as violent and extreme. It was the first time that the social media companies had removed accounts linked to disinformation in China. At the time, Twitter said it had "reliable evidence to support that this is a coordinated state-backed operation."
Also at The Guardian and Reuters.
See also: The People's War Is Coming in Hong Kong
Hong Kong: British consulate employee Simon Cheng detained in China
China's arrest of a Hong Kong man puts spotlight on a controversial shared rail station
Previously: Extradition Law Amendments Protested in Hong Kong
One Million People Protest a Proposed Extradition Law in Hong Kong; Gov't Acquiesces, for Now
How Hong Kong's Protestors Are Hindering (and Hijacking) the Tools of Surveillance
China Warns Hong Kong Protesters Against "Playing With Fire"
China Says Sino-British Joint Declaration On Hong Kong No Longer Binding
Hong Kong Airport Paralysed for a Second Day by Protesters; US Naval Ships Blocked
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @12:14PM
A music relevant to political situation...
It's all over but the crying
And nobody's crying but me
Friends all over know I'm trying
To forget about how much I care for you
It's all over but the dreaming
Poor little dreams that keep trying to come true
It's all over but the crying
And I can't get over crying over you
It's all over but the crying
And nobody's crying but me
Friends all over know I'm trying
To forget about how much I care for you
It's all over but the dreaming
Poor little dreams that keep trying to come true
It's all over but the crying
And I can't get over crying over you
(Score: 2) by fadrian on Tuesday August 13 2019, @12:49PM (4 children)
'Nuff said.
That is all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:02PM
You always have Macau ... China will respect the Portuguese treaty for sure!
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:08PM (2 children)
Nah, the British will uphold the heck out of that treaty. 🙃
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:33PM (1 child)
But what will the US do? Trump needs a war if he is to get a second term, OTOH China is a bit of a big fish...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:02PM
Nahhh, Trump don't need no war to win again. All he need do, is sit back, and watch the left talk stupider than he does. See my sig, LOL!!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by aiwarrior on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:08PM (3 children)
So far the mechanics of Civilization V Brave New World have mapped really well into the real world strategy.
One of the mechanisms that guaranteed almost immediate denouncements of the other players was breaking a treaty or declaration of friendship. I think this maps well into the modern/western understanding of world order. For example in Portugal the ratification of a treaty requires 2/3 of the National Assembly. We also withdrew from Macau under similar circumstances as Hong Kong, yet I have not heard any mention of any anullment.
---------------After research --------------------
It seems there was never a treaty, at least in Macao. There was a declaration. This is also the wording of the TFS which seems to mean that it's a simple agreement, with likely week legal significance, and only political.
I post it just as a shard of my time spent.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:07PM (2 children)
I miss the days of Civ II when diplomacy was much easier. If you wanted to start a war without suffering a reputation hit, you just told them to get stuffed when they called you up and demanded 2/3 of your treasury in tribute, then BAM instant war.
Then in Civ IV, I'm fighting a war with somebody, finally manage to gain the upper hand, and as soon as I capture an enemy city, I'm being told the citizens there are unhappy that I'm ruling them. Well boo hoo. Also apparently there's a United Nations from ancient Greece somehow, and everybody's mad at me internationally and telling me to give the city back. But at least I can tell them to go fuck themselves about that.
This is a game. War is supposed to be fun.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Magic Oddball on Tuesday August 13 2019, @09:46PM (1 child)
I think GTA IV had a more accurate take: "War is where the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing each other."
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:16PM
GTA is a different kind of game, where its main schtick is its realism.
Running an entire country, if made as realistic as possible, would be a hell of a lot of work and not fun at all. So there's a certain amount of creative license involved, including making war an interesting thing to wage, and not something that generally ruins your economy and pisses off your people. There's some amount of creeping towards that line between too realistic and not realistic enough.
I guess I just don't see the point in designing a deep combat engine, if the correct choice is to always avoid war. And if the player is expected to engage in war, everybody telling you you're an asshole for doing so is just annoying.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @01:17PM (2 children)
I don't recognize it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:03PM (1 child)
Put your glasses on, you cross-eyed little fuck. You can't even recognize your mother without them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @10:50PM
Okay good that explains how you were conceived.
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:03PM (6 children)
And transfer your saving to banks outside of China's grasp.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:05PM (3 children)
If everyone followed your advice, that airport would become a giant onion.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:13PM (2 children)
Of course the rich people would get out first so they don't care.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:20PM
Filled with tear gas.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @04:31PM
"Of course the rich people would get out first so they don't care."
The rich people got out first, and moved to the US and Canadian West Coast
(Score: 2) by RamiK on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:14PM
Too late. Flights canceled: https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/hong-kong-protests-airport-chaos-intl-hnk/index.html [cnn.com]
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @10:52PM
or else end up like Fan Bingbing
(Score: 4, Interesting) by RamiK on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:18PM
I made an order in Aliexpress a few days ago and it seems the shipment just barely made it out of Hong Kong (got an EMS tracking number) since by the following day the seller's shop was no longer listed.
I guess Alibaba's escrow department is going to be rather busy in the coming months.
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @02:51PM (2 children)
The Chinese military is staging an invasion. [twitter.com]
In other news, Trump said something naughty. T.V. news anchor enumerates the dicks they sucked to get their job, then declares that all white men are evil. Water gives you cancer, and it is going to kill you... today. All your base are belong to us. etc. etc. etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @04:48PM (1 child)
I'll guess when it comes to that point, the Mainland government will give their HK lackeys clear orders on when to put down the demonstrations with violence. For Mainland forces to get involved would be destroying too much political capital, and would be relied on only as a last resort. No comment from me on whether non-personnel assistance, like weaponry, will be transferred into HK.
The Mainland will want the HK government to get their hands dirty. Not only so that the HK people get killed by locals, not outsiders. But also to assure stakeholders that the government Beijing bestowed on HK is somewhat capable of keeping the territory organized and safe for business.
In short, if the demonstrations continue, the end will be violent. Not with tanks, but just like would happen in the US if the Blacks would start occupying airports: several people will get shot on site, bunches more will get sentenced to prison for a decade or so, and the vast majority goes back home to their 200 sq ft apartments on the 3xth floor, eats their porridge with their parents, and sees if they can get a job again.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @10:55PM
Black people occupied French airports and other locations demanding citizenship papers or else they would become violent.
The French dealt with it without bloodshed.
Probably by caving in to their demands.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:04PM (15 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:08PM (11 children)
Long term blowback? None. There will be some short term wailing and gnashing of teeth, which will be eclipsed by the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the dems lose the next election.
Annexing, or repossessing, Hong Kong and China's other possessions was the long term goal, after all. They are reuniting their country. How many of us seriously believed it would go any other way, in the long term?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:11PM (10 children)
Right. So what were the British thinking, giving away Hong Kong? Massive mistake.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:18PM (2 children)
They're Brits. They aren't required to think. Keep a stiff upper lip, and don't be late for tea, Mate. And, don't show up in that tired old stable jacket like last time!
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:33PM (1 child)
Full meltdown mode, please just don't shoot or otherwise hurt anyone ok?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:42PM
I think he ate your sister. Does that count?
(Score: 4, Informative) by tangomargarine on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:27PM (5 children)
Abiding by international treaties? They didn't "give away" Hong Kong; they had it on a 99-year lease.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday August 13 2019, @03:39PM
Hmm, okay apparently that only covers *part* of the territory, but they decided it would be too much trouble to separate it and keep the rest. The original core parts of HK they had acquired via treaties.
- Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @10:58PM
So that's where China learned this BS from. They love getting '99 year' treaties of ports and the like. For all the good it will do for them in the long run. In some places they need 24/7 security for their people just for day to day business.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:10PM (2 children)
That treaty was not made with Chairman Mao.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:30PM (1 child)
And the assumption is that, if they say "that treaty was with some other country, not us", that means that they get Hong Kong back? Why?
Or would it make more sense, in an absence of any agreement, to say "whoever currently occupies and runs the place owns it"?
Or you could always invade, I suppose.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:36PM
I guess the Brits decided that they didn't want to arbitrarily be dicks to China when they were a rising global power. If China was generally abiding by their other treaty obligations, makes sense.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:13AM
That their lease had expired.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by quietus on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:07AM (2 children)
Combined with the repeated mantra of '200 years of humiliation', I don't think the Chinese are much good at playing the long game either.
They've annoyed the EU by their 16+1 initiative [thediplomat.com]. They're setting themselves up for future trouble in Africa with their old approach [cadtm.org] to neo-colonialism [almariam.com]. They've obviously pissed of the United States.
And now they're starting to get on the nerves of their immediate neighbors -- I guess more than one official in the Russian [uhrp.org], Vietnamese [foreignpolicy.com] and Cambodian [wikipedia.org] governments will draw a parallel with the annexation of Sudetenland.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:10AM (1 child)
What makes you include the Cambodians? Besides not being immediate neighbors, in history the Chinese put the genocides into power in Cambodia, the Vietnamese threw them out and then China lost a war against Vietnam. If Cambodia has been anything but a puppet, they still seem to be actively useful as a base for Chinese extraordinary rendition ops.
(Score: 2) by quietus on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:16PM
How many Cambodians are happy with the Khmer Rouge episode? Seems to me a prime example what Chinese realpolitik considers acceptable -- and what happened once, can happen again.
(Score: 5, Informative) by janrinok on Tuesday August 13 2019, @05:53PM (1 child)
[emphasis mine]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @07:07PM
There are multiple countries, nay continents, that must be laughing at how pathetic the British have become. It really does look rather hopeless for them - China don't give a fuck, whatcha gonna do? Europe will be happy to watch this humiliation right before they hand out the next humiliation of refusing to grant an extension when they come begging. Although long term the Brits must be counting on Europe letting them back in, which to be fair they probably will do thanks to their ingrained socialist safety net idealogy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @08:37PM (2 children)
hmmm ... methinks starting a demonstration is much easier then stopping one. it's "diode" like.
assuming this true, just stir the pot until boils over and then "in the name of law and order" pave the roads with flatend demonstrators capturer by cctv cameras made in china and deepfaked?
anyways, just like war wageing evolved maybe demonstrations will too? flash mobs seem to be very effective at harassing government but dont leave enough "meat accumulation" long enough in one place to crush in one swift, massive blow? be like water indeed ...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13 2019, @11:02PM (1 child)
are you thinking this will turn into a protracted guerilla warfare?
at what point will another country step in? when tanks are crushing people in the streets?
if the SBJD [wikipedia.org] holds any water at all in an international court then china could be held to account for its actions in the medium to long term
think treaties being dissolved
disallowed completely from the 'south china sea' area
existing agreements and leases and land ownership with other countries nullified
cities demolished
did they learn nothing from Hiroshima and Nagasaki [wikipedia.org]?
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:41PM
"Step in" as in, invade China? Let us know how that turns out.
In the past, European powers could send in troops to generally run around the country and disrupt things, but that was because China was a wimp at the time.
You mean, like the Tienanmen Square protests?
Who exactly would enforce that?
lolwut you're going off the deep end here buddy
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:48AM (2 children)
OK, so we're talking about 7.5 million people being probably subject to near-term, violent oppression.
Tough problem.
If the UK wants to retaliate, and give China the PR black eye of shame, they could collaborate with Trump on offering asylum to Hong Kongers. They speak English (mostly, anyway, obviously some don't), as a broad cross-section they care about education, self-advancement and making shit-tons of cash money.
Start with: "Dudes, put your cash in these american banks. Don't be shy; no taxes or fees apply. We've got your back." Next up: "Hong Kong residence papers are proof positive of oppression. Step right up." Next up: "Flights are cleared to Hawaii, Guam, San Fran, Juneau and Seattle. C'mon over, we'll leave the light on."
China goes: "HOW DARE YOU??? YOU EVIL ECONOMY-WRECKERS!!!"
US and UK go: "Talk to the hand. Nice and long. It cares."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:15AM (1 child)
Supposing there would be a Mainland-operated crackdown, it won't be 7.5 million people violently oppressed. It would be the millennial demonstrators.
The head of the foreign relations committee in Parliament is already proposing to give full British citizenship to HK people: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/hongkong-londoner-politiker-will-britische-staatsbuergerschaft-verleihen-a-1281803.html [spiegel.de]
The problem is that that is their home. Not many people want to live a life of exile.
How golden is still the goose that was HK? Last I heard HK contributed in the low single digit percents to China's total economy. The days are gone when you needed HK to mediate in business with the mainland. Nowadays Western executives travel directly to Jiangsu with suitcases full of IP to beg for a slice of Chinese business.
So if the Mainland goes as far to abrogate HK's status, they can clean some house: Throw out all the foreigners residing in HK, abolish the Shenzhen SEZ, turn HK into a Mainland county. Lots of administrative things easier for the Mainland, the banks all leave which will cause good turmoil in the West, young and middle age locals take a back seat to carpetbaggers from the Mainland who speak Mandarin, the territory is denied to Falun Gong and psyops operatives financed by Taiwan and the United States. The rich and famous will continue to seek the Communist Party's favor. Farmers are going to continue to farm and old people are going to continue to live in their tower blocks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:42AM
I don't quite buy that. The demonstrators are clearly not just millenials.
British citizenship is actually rather complex; citizenship doesn't imply right of abode, for example, which makes asylum of some description in the USA quite credible.
As for exile, it's all very well to complain about their home, but when their home turns into a miserable place, as per (for example) Xinjiang, many people will choose the exile option for $400, Alex.
HK isn't a golden goose by itself in terms of production. It's quite substantial, and losing it would hurt (however much the Party would cover it up), but it wouldn't cripple the country. What's a lot more important is its role as a legal gateway, and symbolically as a demonstration that the Party will let people do things in a capitalist way, if only up to a point. Squashing it or choking it slowly both negate that - a calculated risk that the Party appears to have already decided is acceptable. Result: it's a sunk cost. The goose is already on the block. Thus, from a practical and economic perspective, the question is the value of the people and the culture of entrepreneurship and development. The answer appears to be that China doesn't value them. Oh, well. From what I hear, the USA does. Western execs travelling to Jiangsu are a red herring here, because they have no bearing on the value of what Kowloon has to offer, except as a judas goat for capitalists, that China appears to have determined it no longer needs. The Party isn't even pretending that it cares.
The banks leaving wouldn't cause turmoil, it'd mostly be a pain in the butt that would blow over in a year or two. What matters here is the people leaving, analogous with the jewish scientists of the 1930s coming to the USA, and thereby massively boosting the USA's development. If China wants to pretend that this is no cost, or justified, so be it - but it doesn't take a radical Randroid to see a heavy cost for them.
Plausible end game: the West figures out a way to cheerfully absorb and import the people of Hong Kong in job lots, for reasons of economics as well as international politics. The Party makes the best of a terrible job by ignoring the whole thing officially while remaking the region in its own image and blaming it all on sinister foreign operatives as per the previous communique. The Party probably won't be able to do more than throw a couple of rude gestures at the rest of the world because nobody outside the PRC and the DPRK probably thinks that they're in the right (OK, barring the lunatic fringe) and the whole thing progressively contributes to the unmasking of neoimperialistic China to the utter astonishment of absolutely nobody who's paid the least bit of attention.