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We've had multiple submissions on the confrontation in Charlottesville, Virginia between white supremacists and counter-protesters. We lead off with a submission about the altercation which culminated with a car driven into a crowd which left 1 person dead and 19 injured. Then we continue with GoDaddy informing dailystormer.com — a white supremacist web site which called for the rally — that they had 24 hours to find another registrar for their site. They signed up with Google's domain registration service. Now there are reports that Google, too, has dropped the registration.
This story could very well cause a lot of heat, but it is my hope we can look beyond the details of this particular situation and focus discussion on the overriding questions of freedom of speech/publication raised by one of the submitters and the implications it may lead to. This saying comes to mind: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Terrorism in Charlottesville: 1 Dead, 19 Injured
ProPublica reports:
Police Stood By As Mayhem Mounted in Charlottesville, Virginia
At about 10 a.m. [August 12], at one of countless such confrontations, an angry mob of white supremacists formed a battle line across from a group of counter-protesters, many of them older and gray-haired, who had gathered near a church parking lot. On command from their leader, the young men charged and pummeled their ideological foes with abandon. One woman was hurled to the pavement, and the blood from her bruised head was instantly visible.
Standing nearby, an assortment of Virginia State Police troopers and Charlottesville police wearing protective gear watched silently from behind an array of metal barricades--and did nothing.
[...] the white supremacists who flooded into the city's Emancipation Park--a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee sits in the center of the park--had spent months openly planning for war. The Daily Stormer, a popular neo-Nazi website, encouraged rally attendees to bring shields, pepper spray, and fascist flags and flagpoles. A prominent racist podcast told its listeners to come carrying guns.
[...] the white supremacists who showed up in Charlottesville did indeed come prepared for violence. Many wore helmets and carried clubs, medieval-looking round wooden shields, and rectangular plexiglass shields, similar to those used by riot police.
[...] The police did little to stop the bloodshed. Several times, a group of assault-rifle-toting militia members from New York State, wearing body armor and desert camo, played a more active role in breaking up fights.
[...] The skirmishes culminated in what appears to have been an act of domestic terrorism, with a driver ramming his car into a crowd of anti-racist activists on a busy downtown street, killing one and injuring 19 according to the latest information from city officials. Charlottesville authorities tonight reported that a 20-year-old Ohio man had been arrested and had been charged with murder.
[...] A good strategy, [said Miriam Krinsky, a former federal prosecutor who has worked on police reform efforts in Los Angeles], is to make clashes less likely by separating the two sides physically, with officers forming a barrier between them. "Create a human barrier so the flash points are reduced as quickly as possible."
GoDaddy Stomps 'Daily Stormer' -- Site Moves to Google
The Washington Post reports GoDaddy bans neo-Nazi site Daily Stormer for disparaging woman killed at Charlottesville rally:
After months of criticism that GoDaddy was providing a platform for hate speech, the Web hosting company announced late Sunday that it will no longer house the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website that promotes white supremacist and white nationalist ideas.
[...] We informed The Daily Stormer that they have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider, as they have violated our terms of service.
— GoDaddy (@GoDaddy) August 14, 2017
[...] In the Daily Stormer post[1], [Andrew] Angelin characterized [victim Heather] Heyer as dying in a "road rage incident." He said she was a "drain on society" and disparaged her appearance. "Most people are glad she is dead," he wrote.
"@GoDaddy you host The Daily Stormer — they posted this on their site," Twitter user Amy Siskind said in an appeal to the Web hosting company. "Please retweet if you think this hate should be taken down & banned."
[...] GoDaddy has previously said that the content, however "tasteless" and "ignorant," is protected by the First Amendment. The company told the Daily Beast in July that a Daily Stormer article threatening to "track down" the family members of CNN staffers did not violate Domains by Proxy's terms of service.
After the incidents in Charlottesville it seems GoDaddy have decided, one can gather from and after a massive amount of pressure, to no longer provide Domain name access to the Daily Stormer. While a private company is free to do whatever they like, I wonder if there will or might be further implications. I think the interesting question here isn't what happened in Charlottesville or what kind of stories they provide over at the Daily Stormer -- they might be or are a complete shitfest filled with neo-nazi-news for all I know. The interesting aspect is if companies should now monitor their customers, which it seems the Daily Stormer has been one for years, and ban or block customers that no longer align with company beliefs or that other customers find offensive. It seems the Daily Stormer has previously posted "tasteless" and "ignorant" stories that one can only assume have not aligned with GoDaddy policy or Terms of Service, but this one was somehow over the line and the straw that broke the camel's back?
I'm fairly sure the Daily Stormer won't be knocked offline or anything, there will always be someone willing to host them somewhere. So today they try to knock a neo-nazi site offline, I doubt many people will lose any sleep over that, but who is going to be next? Is this part of the ramping up of the current online-twitter-socialweb-culture? Is there a slippery slope here?
Google Domains, GoDaddy blacklist white supremacist site Daily Stormer
Ars Technica is reporting that Google Domains and GoDaddy have blacklisted white supremacist site Daily Stormer:
The article prompted a response from the site's domain registrar, GoDaddy. "We informed The Daily Stormer that they have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider, as they have violated our terms of service," GoDaddy wrote in a tweet late Sunday night.
On Monday, the Daily Stormer switched its registration to Google's domain service. Within hours, Google announced a cancellation of its own. "We are cancelling Daily Stormer's registration with Google Domains for violating our terms of service," the company wrote in an statement emailed to Ars.
[...] A lot of outlets covering this controversy described GoDaddy, somewhat misleadingly, as the Daily Stormer's hosting provider. But GoDaddy wasn't storing or distributing the content on the Daily Stormer website. It was the Daily Stormer's registrar, which is the company that handles registration of "dailystormer.com" in the domain name system, the global database that connects domain names like "arstechnica.com" to numeric IP addresses.
GoDaddy has faced pressure for months from anti-racist groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League to drop the Daily Stormer as a customer. But until this weekend, GoDaddy resisted that pressure.
"GoDaddy doesn't host The Daily Stormer's content on its servers," the investigative site Reveal reported in May. "Because it provides only the domain name, the company says it has a higher standard for terminating service."
"We need to evaluate what level of effect we can actually have on the abuse that's actually going on," said Ben Butler, director of GoDaddy's digital crimes unit, in a May interview with Reveal. "As a domain name registrar, if we take the domain name down, that domain name stops working. But the content is still out there, live on a server connected to the Internet that can be reached via an IP address or forwarded from another domain name. The actual content is not something we can touch by turning on or off the domain name service."
But GoDaddy abruptly changed its stance on Sunday evening. What changed GoDaddy's mind? In a statement to Techcrunch, GoDaddy said: "given this latest article comes on the immediate heels of a violent act, we believe this type of article could incite additional violence, which violates our terms of service."
Reading GoDaddy's terms of service, this seems to support their stance that they could suspend the domain registration:
9. RESTRICTION OF SERVICES; RIGHT OF REFUSAL
[...] You agree that GoDaddy, in its sole discretion and without liability to you, may refuse to accept the registration of any domain name. GoDaddy also may in its sole discretion and without liability to you delete the registration of any domain name during the first thirty (30) days after registration has taken place. GoDaddy may also cancel the registration of a domain name, after thirty (30) days, if that name is being used, as determined by GoDaddy in its sole discretion, in association with spam or morally objectionable activities. Morally objectionable activities will include, but not be limited to:
- Activities prohibited by the laws of the United States and/or foreign territories in which you conduct business;
- Activities designed to encourage unlawful behavior by others, such as hate crimes, terrorism and child pornography; and
- Activities designed to harm or use unethically minors in any way.
As of the time of this being written, it appears that the Daily Stormer domain (dailystormer.com) is still being hosted by Google:
Domain Name: dailystormer.com
Registry Domain ID: 1787753602_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.google.com
Registrar URL: https://domains.google.com
Updated Date: 2017-08-14T14:51:45Z
Creation Date: 2013-03-20T22:43:18Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2020-03-20T22:43:18Z
Registrar: Google Inc.
Registrar IANA ID: 895
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8772376466
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:52PM (2 children)
Who is this George Soros guy and why is he so keen to fund racial violence in the US and Europe?
"On September 16, 1992, Black Wednesday, Soros's fund sold short more than $10 billion in pounds,[48] profiting from the UK government's reluctance to either raise its interest rates to levels comparable to those of other European Exchange Rate Mechanism countries or float its currency.
Finally, the UK withdrew from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, devaluing the pound. Soros's profit on the bet was estimated at over $1 billion.[56] He was dubbed "the man who broke the Bank of England."[57] The estimated cost of Black Wednesday to the UK Treasury was £3.4 billion.[58]"
"The financial crisis that originated in Thailand in 1997 was particularly unnerving because of its scope and severity.... By the beginning of 1997, it was clear to Soros Fund Management that the discrepancy between the trade account and the capital account was becoming untenable. We sold short the Thai baht and the Malaysian ringgit early in 1997 with maturities ranging from six months to a year. (That is, we entered into contracts to deliver at future dates Thai baht and Malaysian ringgit that we did not currently hold.) Subsequently Prime Minister Mahathir of Malaysia accused me of causing the crisis, a wholly unfounded accusation. We were not sellers of the currency during or several months before the crisis; on the contrary, we were buyers when the currencies began to decline—we were purchasing ringgits to realize the profits on our earlier speculation. (Much too soon, as it turned out. We left most of the potential gain on the table because we were afraid that Mahathir would impose capital controls. He did so, but much later.)[63]"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 14 2017, @11:58PM (1 child)
You are not a currency manipulator only because you are poor and/or dumb.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:12AM
How did Soros make his fortune?
(Score: 3, Informative) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:15AM (4 children)
The Daily Storm's hate speech was not protected by the First Amendment. That only bans censorship by the government.
Private parties are free to censor.
That the first amendment outlaws all censorship is quite a common misconception.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:15AM
Domain registrars had government monopoly authority over domain registrations, and still do have defacto derived government powers for the same.
Until you or I can stand up our own TLD registrars without asking permission from ANYONE, then it's likely that current registrars need to abide by the First Amendment insofar as domain name hosting goes.
(Score: 1) by crafoo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:10PM (2 children)
Hate speech is protected. If it were not everything the current faction in power didn't approve of would be classified as hate speech.
Private companies are free to censor but it is still censorship, and it is still contrary to the values that make this country great. Companies that censor speech are not friends of democracy. GoDaddy clearly does not value the freedom of expression, open debate of the issues, and the ability of all people to access all viewpoints that are out there. Clearly many people in the USA have views similar to those expressed on Daily Storm. Good, bad, or otherwise, access to this view and seeing it openly expressed and engaged with is the cornerstone of debunking it.
Now, there are also many people here that are frightened of this view. There are kernels of truth in what is being expressed. Ideas that cannot be so easily debunked or rationally dealt with. For these ideas the radical alt-left has only forced-silence. There is no conversation. There is no measured rational response. The irrationality and censorship speaks for itself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:21PM
Ummm... which country is that? 'Cause even a certain elected president is MAGA-ing, if you understand the implications.
This is what I keep saying for some time: capitalism and focus on profit above anything else are not friends of democracy.
But they keep invoking free market and how this is a pillar for a free society, and how the primary responsibility of a corporation is to bring profit to their shareholders, everything else is secondary; maybe you'll have a better luck in having them believe you.
So true, so so true.
You see, trying to convince the society to keep an open mind and fiercely debate are exactly what Daily Storm advocates.
If the others don't want to open their mind, they'll be happy to oblige by using maces and other implements (cars plunging in crowds) to literally open those closed minds.
Even better, those implements can be reused during the fiercely debating phase, making the process cheaper, leaner and meaner.
Oh, wise one, I'm lost for words.
Please teach me how do have a rational conversation with a car hurling down at speed into a crowd - I do understand that's a form of expression [soylentnews.org] but I don't know if using in reply, e.g., a tank as a counter-argument is legal in US.
(Score: 2) by martyb on Saturday August 19 2017, @01:32PM
Whatever 'special' rules are put into place to favor what I believe in, can be used by others to favor what they believe in. There's an inherent tension there for that to work. I must tolerate some things others say which I find repugnant in order to assure that I can say what others may find repugnant.
I do NOT have to agree with them. And I am absolutely free to speak my mind and use my own freedom of speech and right to assembly to voice why I disagree and my reasoning for it.
Agreed. There is a difference between censorship that is performed by the US government and by individuals. The government, being so much more powerful than the person, can suppress disagreement and thus foist ever more power against the people. Some of the actions of the government back in the 1700's led to a group of folks gathering to make sure that one's voice could not be silenced, among other things.
We are, however, in a different time. The founding fathers could never have envisioned corporations becoming so powerful that they rivaled governments in their sway. Think of Google, Facebook, and Twitter (among many others). Think, also, of the consolidation in the media where fewer and fewer companies control larger and larger numbers of newspapers, TV, and radio stations.
If the government is proscribed from certain activities for the protection of the people, at what point must/should we draw the line when it comes to corporations?
I can't help but see a parallel to the fallout of the 9/11 attacks. Huge shift in public awareness. The powers that be seemed to have been biding their time and used the event as an opportunity to push for things that would not have otherwise been accepted in the court of public opinion. Think Patriot act. Think TSA. Think TIA. I see similar calls for action, now, and fear what is waiting to be unleashed now that the court of public opinion has swayed.
Wit is intellect, dancing.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:19AM (3 children)
In Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square there are from time to time a couple guys holding signs that say:
Beware Homosexuals
Beware Abortion
Beware Muslims
Beware Yoga Pants
I Am Absolutely Serious: Beware Yoga Pants.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:24AM (1 child)
Beware Cameltoe
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:24AM
Beware Cankles.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Tuesday August 15 2017, @07:54AM
Next week: Beware Paper Bags
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:25AM
- to the sixteen men who died for him in the Beer Hall Putsch.
Sixteen.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Tuesday August 15 2017, @12:26AM (7 children)
What I found intersting, or disturbing, was that idea that companies are now responsible, from their perspective, for what the customers are doing with their products or services, I think this was the main focus of my submission. If this is the case are other providers of services or products also responsible for what you do with them? I'm sure we can come up with a near endless amount of car analogies and such or if your phone company or ISP responsible for what you do online. I guess an exception to this have always been the postal service which have on numerous occasions refused to distribute "obscene" materials, mostly of a sexual- or pornographic nature. But these companies clearly now see themselves as socially responsible companies that even tho they are not providing the actual content they are providing the service or easier access for the content.
For Google this might already be an issue, since if you are not on Google page 1 then for most people you just don't exists. So is this their next step? They are going to filter content they provide to align with various corporate beliefs? It's almost tempting to go and look up all other people, companies and organizations that get DNS-service for GoDaddy or Google to see what other objectionable materials they do provide easy access to, and possibly then demand that their access gets cut.
So that was my main issue. But I'll touch a bit on the other parts of the submission to. I have not really read up on the actual event all that much. There was a protest in a park for the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee, I can find sympathy for that issue since trying to rewrite or hide history is quite sad. As always there are exception, I'm glad they removed all the busts of Hitler in Germany cause that would have been really weird if that was still a thing. But I don't see why they just couldn't leave Lee alone and start another park, perhaps with a giant pink marble statue of Rosa Parks, or someone else of equal note or worth. Most cities could always use another park, most normal people don't complain about an additional park and recreational area.
It's equally interesting how these right wing marches are always the same or shown the same way, angry men shouting and looking aggressive. They are clearly not doing themselves any favors. That people showed up with helmets and shields are probably not doing it cause they think they look cool but as a reasonable response to the fact that the people that protest them have a tendency to hurl projectiles and shit at them. So it makes sense. The armed militia men seems to have become a new American staple, Oath Keepers or some other similar group exercising their right to bare arms. This is just the norm, just like left wing marches appear to contain people wearing masks and then eventually the march ends with it turning into a full scale riot and they try and burn a bank or McDonalds to "fight the man" (or capitalism) or just getting some action from the police.
The Daily Stormer isn't exactly on the required reading list as far as I am concerned so I can't really talk about the quality of their content. But I guess Angelin and his rant are the site standard, at least it wouldn't surprise me. That said it seemed factually wrong on many levels but then it wasn't really about the things he stated, he was just trying to please his readers and supports for their cause. But she didn't look particularly fat to me, sure it was mostly head shots but still. Her age is barely over the national average for first time mothers so it's not like she was late to the eventual baby party. I doubt he knew anything about her supposed slutiness. I'm more surprised that he wasn't celebrating her childlessness, less little Marxists babies around to dilute his precious whiteness. Perhaps that was the issue, that she hadn't pushed out her quota of aryan superbabies for the cause, even tho it wasn't her cause.
Either way I seriously doubt it was the worst, most offensive or heinous thing written on the Internet that day. It probably wasn't even the worst text on the Daily Stormer. If writing that you are going to harm, you don't track down people to do nice things to them, staff at CNN wasn't enough to violate the GoDaddy ToS how was this? Was it tasteless? Yes, but sadly nothing new under the sun or far from the norm on internet rants.
For C0lo. It does indeed seem like Trump is the president of the World by the amount of press he gets in countries where he isn't even the elected leader. I don't think a day goes by that there isn't some front page blurb about what Trump did or didn't do today. What or what didn't he tweet about today, some potential staff problems in the white house, when is he going to start nuclear war with Korea etc etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:00AM (5 children)
I don't see why they just couldn't leave Lee alone and start another park, perhaps with a giant pink marble statue of Rosa Parks
...or one with a statue of King George III.
How about a statue of (traitor) Benedict Arnold?
John Wilkes Booth?
...all parts of American History, after all.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:06AM (3 children)
All parts of history that we'd to well to be reminded of regularly. By all means, statue them up.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:12AM (2 children)
Or rather than waste the space and metal to make such statues, we instead increase spending on our schools to, oh I don't know, actually teach this stuff? Might do just as good if not better in the grand scheme of things.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:15AM (1 child)
How often do you think of random historical facts you learned in school? Reminders are not a bad thing.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:11AM
I want a Hannibal Lector statute. Never forget, "It rubs the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again!" Southern Culture Pride!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @10:10PM
Not without precedent. There have been a number of monuments to enemies erected over the years. If I recall correctly there was a monument to a an American revolutionary war privateer erected in the U.K. He was honored because he conducted his raiding with a certain degree of restraint.
Robert E. Lee was by all accounts respected by almost everyone who knew him. And he wasn't just a general. He was also a teacher. He surrendered the army of Virginia, when he could very easily have continued fighting using guarrilla tactics in Appalachia, letting the war continue for years after Gettysburg.
"War starts when you wish but does not end when you please." -- Machievelle
So it could be argued that Lee ended the war early, by choice not by necessity. Even after Gettysburg, there is some doubt whether the North could have sustained fighting for much longer, considering the recruitment riots that were going on. Lincoln wrote the emancipation proclamation, but it didn't become law until the surrender at Appomatox. And even then, the north made little effort to enforce it. So making this guy out to be some grand symbol of racism is just ridiculous. You weren't there, and neither was I.
Incidentally the same stupidity surrounds the stars and bars flag. It was originally commissioned as a battle standard. The square version is actually a Virginia flag, not a flag of the Confederacy. Though it didn't keep morons in Texas from putting a Virginia flag on a Texas plate. And it is even dumber for state capitals (other than Virginia) to fly this flag. Not because of racism, but because it is a flag representing the military of a different state. It was usurped to replace the original flag of the Confederacy. But that isn't surprising, since everything about that government was stolen from somewhere else.
But it was originally flown like the army flies the screaming eagle, or the big red one. Yankees regarded it as the Confederate flag, because whenever they were getting their asses kicked, it was Virginians who were doing it. And there is nothing wrong with taking a little pride in that, if your a Virginian, regardless of your skin tone. Just like there is nothing wrong with taking a little pride in deriving from a people who were strong enough to overcome slavery.
It is a symbol of racism, because people are being manipulated into regarding it as such.
This whole event was a marrionette play. This statue wasn't targeted because it was a symbol of racism. It was targeted because it would inflame the fundamentalists and incite violence. Violence the RNC/DNC alliance could capitalize on. People are dying, so that nobody in Congress has to talk about health care, or the environment, or the economy, or anything that might make flacid congress's favourite corporate bedfellows.
The DNC and RNC are using the NAACP and the KKK as weapons of mass distraction. It is despicable; like an adult setting two 8 year olds to fighting on the playground. Stop being pissed at the kids who are fighting, and start being pissed at the people who set it up. And stop fucking placing bets.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:29PM
At least in the 5 eyes countries, this holds true, for obvious reasons: one doesn't get to be an eye if not for the very-very close alliance.; which means whatever shit he pulls internationally, the other 4 "eyes" will only ask "how high?".
Even more, his behaviour in USA causes sycophants and wanna-be-a-shithead-myself politicians elsewhere. Fortunately, they'll be short (enough) lived in the political scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:17AM (1 child)
They can run there own DNS their own servers no one should be forced do business with people that want to bring back something 60 million people died to defeat. learn from history do not allow poison to fester, the real problem here is that these companies are so powerful they wield state like control which is itself fascist and should be eliminated as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:30AM
Oh look, it's an ignoramous sounding off about something he knows nothing about while denouncing others as "idiots".
Your average human being is UNABLE to be their own domain name registrar.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:24AM (8 children)
I'm totally fine with the Nazi websites continuing to operate. Not because I support Nazis, but because (and this is the key point) websites don't kill people. Also, guys spouting nasty words and throwing Roman salutes and such are nasty but legal, and the ACLU was right to defend their right to say those things.
That said, the Nazi who drove a car into a crowd committed an act of terrorism. That's not just my opinion as someone who's so left-wing that Bernie Sanders is a bit conservative for my taste, that's the opinion of the likes of Ted Cruz, John McCain, and Jeff Sessions. The organized beat-downs of counter-protesters were also acts of terrorism, albeit not lethal. Therefor, the correct law enforcement response is to treat the organizations who participated as terrorist organizations, complete with arresting anyone involved in the planning and execution of these attacks. And yes, that means those that donate to or buy stuff from these groups are aiding and abetting terrorism.
The cops standing by while people are getting beaten unfortunately does not surprise me in the slightest. Police forces attract those of a right-wing authoritarian mindset, and there have been substantial efforts by white supremacist organizations to both recruit cops and infiltrate police departments. In the immortal words of Rage Against The Machine: "Some of those who are in forces are the same who burn crosses". Some conspiracy-minded folks are suggesting that the governor allowed this to happen on purpose, but I could imagine cops intentionally turning a blind eye all on their own.
Lastly, the (non-)reaction of the president was inexcusable. He basically made it clear that he agreed with what the Nazis were doing. The Nazis were very clear that they liked what they saw from him. He kind of changed his tune today, but with a nod and wink to the groups doing this.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:31AM (3 children)
WTF were you watching? Cause I saw Trump condemning everyone who went there with violence on their mind. I don't like the guy but you got some heavy confirmation bias happening to believe he's got anything in common with the Nazis.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:44AM (1 child)
I saw exactly what the Neo-Nazis saw:
"He didn't attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us. He said that we need to study why people are so angry, and implied that there was hate on both sides! There was virtually no counter signaling of us at all. He loves us all." - Andrew Anglin, publisher of the Daily Stormer
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:32AM
Funny, I say the exact same thing! Trump loves Nazis! No wonder, his father was one. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/charlottesville-latest-donald-trump-father-fred-arrested-ku-klux-klan-kkk-rally-riot-queens-new-york-a7891701.html [independent.co.uk]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:13PM
I think you're trying way too hard to believe the not-racist-trump agenda. He may not be a full blown goose stepper, but he is obviously a bigot and repeatedly fails to condemn white supremacists. TMB take a good long look at the people around you, because you're either one of them and don't know it or you're just an apologist that tries to focus on the constitutional issues and ignore the bigotry of those who agree with you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @02:55AM (3 children)
When a site with a clear violent racist bent says "Gather in this place; bring weapons", I see no reason that a business shouldn't stop their association with that bunch.
The First Amendment applies to the gov't, not to businesses.
The Nazis clearly have a lot of spare time on their hands to make banners and shields and find sources of brass knuckles and such.
Let them spend some of that time repeatedly looking for new registrars.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:33AM (2 children)
Funny - have you forgotten that the Second Amendment exists as well? And that domain registrars still have defacto government-granted monopoly power over domain name registration?
I know the California Black Panthers still probably make you poop your pants...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:09PM (1 child)
Had to destroy those guys though, cause y'know, they weren't white and all. I guess the 2nd amendment really only protects white people....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @09:30PM
The Second Amendment sure protected Wayne Fincher, David Olofson, Vicky Weaver, citizens near Waco in both 1993 and 2015, and all the members of the Bundy ranching family along with their supporters.
Oh, wait. No, it didn't. You're wrong again. Government is not your friend, even if you desperately want it to be so.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Tuesday August 15 2017, @03:37AM
Protecting free speech is one thing.
Driving cars into crowds is not speech. It is terrorism.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bradley13 on Tuesday August 15 2017, @06:00AM (4 children)
Everyone in the protests screwed up. Both the protesters and the counter-protesters allowed themselves to be represented by the worst minority within their ranks. There's nothing much a movement can do, when some small, extremist organization says "me too, I'm with you". But they could prevent that extreme minority from taking over the stage. Both sides failed, and let their worst elements get the press coverage.
The police force appears to have deliberately encouraged violent confrontation, by pushing the groups together instead of keeping them apart.
The MSM continues beating its progressive drum, by covering only the excesses of the right-wing protesters. Yet, from private coverage and videos, it is pretty clear that the left-wing protesters started the violence.
Then we get the idiot with the car: mentally ill, on medication, his mom called the cops on him more than once, when he was violent with her. His act isn't political at all, it's the act of a fruitloop off his meds.
What a fricking mess...
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @07:52AM
Nazi from Switzerland chimes in. Why am I not impressed? If you are American, come back and join the fight against the Nazis, instead of being all "Edelweisse"! Dude!
(Score: 1) by crafoo on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:19PM (2 children)
It looked like in the video he had a bashed in windshield. Do we know what was happening beforehand? Where alt-left radicals trying to pull him from his car or beating it with bats?
It's pretty clear MSM is presenting a very one-sided version of the events and failing to report on violence from both sides. It's being used to push the expected narrative. This young man was obviously unstable, probably quite frightened, out of his element and unprepared for the situation. Isn't it strange that a young man like this has no direction to turn? No real institutionalized help? Why are our young men killing themselves at record rates? Why are our youth, particularly men, frustrated, hopeless, and discarded? If this was a young woman acting out how many private and government institutions would be available to her?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @05:19PM
You bring up good points about disenfranchised youth, but in NO WAY does that excuse these nazi fuckers. Peaceful marches don't include shields and clubs, these are nazi shitbags trying to provoke an incident where they can "defend" themselves. It is a fucking twisted game, and people such as yourself are trying to make it OK.
Wait, I need my tissues, the thought of some poor young nazi being pushed into running over 19 people is just so heart breaking! Won't someone please think of the poor hateful nazi dickbags!!
I'm sorry, but FUCK YOU! Where were these words of support for every story where a black youth is murdered by cops? Oh, he was a "thug" you say? What's the difference here again? Gonna go out on a very sturdy looking limb here and call you a hypocrite.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 16 2017, @12:37AM
Strange? This is the USA. If you don't have any money for health care, you don't get it. How hard is that to figure out?
And what about his family? They couldn't help him? I suppose they arent working hard enough.
Because they live and think inside of a hateful racist bubble which is rapidly closing in on them because their shitty world views are no longer acceptable in a functional modern society. "Wahhhhhhh! The poor racists have no where to go! They're all depressed now!" Cry me a fucking river.
Oh, I get it now. Your one of those threatened white males. You get worked up the moment you hear trigger words like left, liberal, obama, democrat, feminist, SJW, etc. Listen up sonny, no one is out to get you. You got that? Now go outside, off your little computer, tell your mommy you want to go for a bike ride and get some fresh air. The world can be a scary place but brown people along with people with vaginas aren't all out to get you. That's because you're a nobody like 99.999% of the rest of humanity. They just want the same rights as you do but for some pathetic, childish reason you're scared of them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @11:43AM (1 child)
...to those who own one. The New York Times is no more obligated to publish an article from Andrew Anglin, the editor of the Daily Stormer, than GoDaddy or Google are obligated to host his DNS records and/or website. Just as the NYT is not the only newspaper around there, GoDaddy and Google are by no means the only options Mr. Anglin has for finding alternative hosting. Maybe he can easily enough find some sympathetic asshole company out there that would let him host his site. I'm sure there are at least a few of those around in this day and age.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @01:24PM
DNS is a distributed database whose root servers are managed by an international consortium. At this point it is as much a public utility as is the phone system. Which should entail all of the 1st and 4th amendment issues that go along with that.
But it is really a waste of time to even argue the point, since pretty much every underlying technology that makes the Internet work, is in the extended phase of its product life cycle. The only reason DNS hasn't been replaced with something more secure, is because U.S. law does not recognize the intrinsic value of interoperability. (a whole other agument)
But all of that is really an aside.The nazi fundamentalists create mayhem in order to recruit. For antifa fundamentalists, it is the other way around.
Both sides are making racism a national debate, because fundamentalist issues concentrate power for the RNC and the DNC. This isn't about racism. It is about stalling the descending spiral of support in the mainstream parties. If either side of the fundamentalist clash was self-aware, they would realize that they are being used as pawns by the DNC/RNC alliance.
(Score: 3, Informative) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday August 15 2017, @04:15PM
After consultation with Rod Rosenstein, I've decided the violent attacks in Charlottesville on Saturday are unacceptable. The victims were standing up to hate and intolerance. Our prayers are w/ them. 🇺🇸
(Score: 2) by Entropy on Tuesday August 15 2017, @08:27PM
The 'nazis', are protesting taking down our civil war monuments...monuments blacks and whites died for. They received a valid permit for the protest. The city revoked their permit, and they sued in federal court to get it back. Why did the city revoke their permit? Because you can't protest and be white. If you do protest you'll be characterized as Nazi's.
Black lies matter and Anitfa received no permit, arrived, and as is usual for them started violence and property damage while having an illegal protest. (What else do they do, actually?)
The violence started by black lies matter escalated into the car being driven into someone...which is a tragedy. Perhaps black lies matter shouldn't have thrown rocks at an otherwise peaceful protest? Blame for this tragedy should be shared, but it won't be.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 15 2017, @11:47PM
Have we soyniggers broken a soynigger record with 309 soynigger comments? Datz a lotta comments!