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Saudis preparing to admit Jamal Khashoggi died during interrogation, sources say
The Saudis are preparing a report that will acknowledge that Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi's death was the result of an interrogation that went wrong, one that was intended to lead to his abduction from Turkey, according to two sources.
One source says the report will likely conclude that the operation was carried out without clearance and transparency and that those involved will be held responsible.
One of the sources acknowledged that the report is still being prepared and cautioned that things could change.
The Washington Post columnist was last seen in public when he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in Turkey on October 2. Previously, Saudi authorities had maintained Khashoggi left the consulate the same afternoon of his visit, but provided no evidence to support the claim.
Saudi Arabia could hike oil prices over the Khashoggi case. Here's why it would backfire
Saudi Arabia's not-so-veiled threat issued in a government statement Sunday emphasized its "vital role in the global economy" and that any action taken upon it will be met with "greater action". But as oil ticks upward, a look at history and geopolitics suggests that while a Saudi-driven oil price spike would bring pain for much of the world, it would ultimately backfire on itself.
"If this is something the Saudis were allowed to do, they'd be really shooting themselves in the foot," Warren Patterson, commodities analyst at ING, told CNBC's Squawk Box Europe on Tuesday. "In the short to medium term we'll definitely see an incremental amount of demand destruction, but the bigger issue is in the longer term."
Any action in withholding oil from the market, he said, "would only quicken the pace of energy transition."
Previously: Turkey Says that a Missing Critic of the Saudi Government was Killed in Saudi Consulate in Istanbul
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:15AM (3 children)
Erdoğan: toxic materials and evidence of repainting found in Saudi consulate [theguardian.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:57AM (2 children)
Wait, we trust Erdogan now?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:35AM
You get to pick which honorable and trustworthy ally to believe.
✈️🏢🏢
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @06:28AM
Turkey's been put in an uncomfortable position. In order to prove the murder, they have to out the extent of their active surveillance - and then they'll lose it to countermeasures. That's hard for a spook, an action not lightly taken. I mean, it's not hard to imagine the usual spookland punishment for a low-level operative accidentally exposing an embassy tap is death.
So I'm inclined to believe Turkey on this one.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Snotnose on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:24AM (22 children)
They hack off people's heads For Piddling Reasons (FPR). They torture people FPR. They lock people up in horrendous conditions FPR. You really don't want to be female there.
Now, they're suckering innocent people who don't think like they do into innocuous surroundings (an embassy) for innocuous reasons (paperwork), and torturing them before killing them.
But
They have oil. Lots of it.
That used to matter.
Big fucking deal. We have oil. Thanks to technology we now have lots of it. And we're trying to use less and less of it.
Let's declare these assholes to be what they are, a terrorist state stuck in the worst parts of the crusades era who think that, if you don't believe in their god and obey their rules, then you aren't human so fuck you.
They aren't human. Fuck them. We don't need them any more. I'd much rather we drill for oil off the coast of California than send another dime to these barbaric assholes.
It's time we tell these barbaric assholes to Fuck Off and Die.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:40AM (14 children)
We didn't tell the Middle-East Land Thief nation starting with "I" to FOAD, so why would we tell SA to FOAD?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:04AM (3 children)
The principal Middle-East Land Thief nation is GB. If it weren't for their NHS I would tell them to FOAD!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:53PM (1 child)
GB ==> George Bush ???
NHS ==> National Hair Salons ???
???
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:51PM
I'm going with Great Britain and National Health Service, but I have no idea where they were going with it.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:54PM
FOAD ==> Fukushima Off And Daiichi ???
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:30AM (9 children)
Iraq? Iran? Israel? Which? There's more than one.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:55AM (7 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:57PM (6 children)
Why is that? We've told pretty much every other country to f-off at some point.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:03PM
At present we mostly tell that only to our long term allies and friends whose mutual cooperation is very beneficial to us.
We would never tell that to a dictator. Nor to an ememy who wants to undermine our democracy and divide us. Nor to an enemy that chants "death to America!"
As for the one middle east nation beginning with "I" that we never have and likely never will say that too, the republican evangelicals see that nation as one of the central features in fulfillment of bible prophecy. FYI
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:17PM (4 children)
Why we don't tell a certain country in the Middle East to FOAD, ever:
1. Evangelical Christians believe that country's success is an important precursor to the apocalypse. It's important to note that they view the apocalypse as a wonderful event, when Jesus will finally come and make them all happy forever and make all the people who didn't believe as they do to burn in hell forever. These people are one of the key voting blocs of one of the two major political parties in the US.
2. AIPAC and other organizations of rich Jewish people, who don't just support Israel but specifically support the right wing of Israeli politics such as the ruling Likud Party over more moderate and left-wing competitors like the Labor Party and Kadima. These organizations heavily fund political candidates who toe the party line, and also smear anybody who disagrees anything they do as anti-Semitic, unless they're Jewish too in which case they're "self-hating".
3. Bigotry against Muslims is extremely common in the US, and generally socially acceptable. As in, if you play word association games, and give the word "Muslim" out, you'll often get the response "terrorism" or "terrorist". This bigotry leads to the opinion that the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. The country in question in the Middle East routinely robs murders Muslims, and that's seen by bigots as a good thing. (My own opinion on the matter: Nothing I've heard or encountered about Islam suggests that it's any stupider than other religions, or that its believers are inherently morally any better or worse than anyone else.)
4. Their citizens are on average whiter and more English-speaking than other countries in the region. That makes whiter and English-speaking people share a certain affinity for them.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday October 17 2018, @09:18PM
5. Once we've gotten over our oil dependency and moved to renewable power generation, it'll turn out the oil was sitting on top of a country-sized layer of lithium.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 18 2018, @01:20AM (2 children)
3, Your ignorance about islam and its koran [thereligionofpeace.com] is not excusable in this day and age. Download the koran for free and read it for yourself. The verses are written sorted by length, longest verses first and shortest last. However, the official way to read and interpret the material is chronologically with later verses abrogating the earlier ones [wikiislam.net] in the many cases of conflict. You do it that way and you will see that it is all about promulgating violence and hate. We banned Nazism, with effort. With more effort, we can ban islam for much the same reasons and using many of the same laws.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 18 2018, @02:13AM
Eh? So there's no death and destruction in the bible at all? Sure, maybe one is more violent than the other, but lets be fair.. just ban the lot of em. Its about time.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday October 19 2018, @07:24PM
Well, you've sure done a great job of proving my point!
Pick a religion, and unless they are unusually pacifist (e.g. Quakers and Jains) you'll find advocacy of violence against non-believers:
* Christianity: The Crusades, duh. Also, near constant warfare in Europe post-Reformation between Protestants and Catholics. Christianity was also used to justify the genocide of numerous people in the Americas, Africa, and southern Asia. In modern times, George W Bush called the wars he started in the Middle East a crusade, and his favorite mercenaries Blackwater also think of themselves as modern-day crusaders.
* Judaism: Tons of violence in the name of Judaism throughout what the Christians call the Old Testament. In modern times, Judaism is being used to justify both discrimination against non-Jews living in Israel, but also violence against Palestinians. Israeli defense minister Avigdor Lieberman in particular has often suggested violence in the name of Judaism.
* Hinduism: The Baghavad Gita is ultimately a long explanation of why violence is justified and necessary. Modern Hindus often use their religion to justify attacking Muslims in Kashmir.
* Buddhism: A particular form of Shinto-tinged Buddhism was a key part of the Japanese ideology in World War II. In modern times, much of the conflict in Myanmar/Burma is Buddhists using violence against Christians.
* Atheism: Atheist Communists, particular Josef Stalin, massacred people because they were religious in some way. So no, you aren't off the hook if you're atheist.
* Islam: Mohammed fought quite a number of battles himself, and violence and warfare was the origin of the Sunni-Shia split. In modern times, Wahabi Islam of the sort practiced by Saudi Arabia is particularly violent.
So no, I don't see Islam as standing out here as being radically more violent than other religious viewpoints. Your average Ahmed is just trying to get through life more or less like you are.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:09PM
Well, we already made Iraq FOAD, and 1 of the other 2 doesn't swipe land.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:48AM (1 child)
They're good friends with the President.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:06PM
Which really means any of:
[_] they have openly adored him and stoked his delicate ego
[x] they give him money
[x] the president thinks he has "good chemistry" with them
With fiends like that who needs enemies?
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Webweasel on Wednesday October 17 2018, @07:56AM
Nope, because of the arms trade.
USA $115 Billion.
UK £1.1 Billion.
So no, nothing will change.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @11:52AM
Funny, it was so close that I was barely able to tell which of the two countries you were blabbering about. So much the same.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:26PM (1 child)
Interesting that we have the term Conflict Diamond, but no matching term Conflict Oil...
(Score: 2) by arslan on Thursday October 18 2018, @02:15AM
I believe we call it Blood Diamond? We should call it Death Oil... conflict is too tame.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 17 2018, @06:09PM
They hack off people's heads For Piddling Reasons (FPR). They torture people FPR. They lock people up in horrendous conditions FPR. You really don't want to be female there.
They literally blew up a bus full of children with a bomb they bought from us.
Yemen air strike: The school that's lost 42 children [bbc.com]
It's pretty damn hard to get more fucked up than that. Glad to know we're selling them more bombs, though.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:38AM (5 children)
They "accidentally" killed somebody during torture and then accidentally sliced the body into many bits and accidentally had all the expertise and equipment needed to ship it out and hide it without anybody noticing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Fluffeh on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:11AM (1 child)
Yes.
Exactly that. It all happened before anyone really knew it was even happening. It happens all the time. You know. Just like people often commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head twice. That sort of thing.
What part of this horrible accident do you disagree with citizen? Are you suggesting that someone isn't being totally honest and forthcoming in what they're saying? That's a serious allegation!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:10AM
Unfortunately that is an all too common occurrence. Much like getting shot while being mugged and not having anything stolen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:02AM (2 children)
I don't know about you, but I didn't need more reason to avoid kebabs in Instambul.
(Score: 2) by EETech1 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @10:51PM (1 child)
They are so good though!
Going to Turkey for 2 weeks a few years back really showed me first hand why Americans are plagued with so many health problems.
I made it a point to go to every fast food restaurant I could find to compare the food they sell there to what they sell us here, and I guarantee you that what they try and pass off as food in the US would never sell in Turkey.
The Burger King Chicken Royale is a mighty fine sandwich in Turkey. Granted it will cost you $7.00 American, but at least it will not contribute to a lifetime of health problems.
The rest of the (non-fast) food you can watch graze behind the restaurant, and then be butchered if you really want to.
(Score: -1) by fakefuck39 on Thursday October 18 2018, @03:38AM
This is complete bullshit. Were you in Istanbul old town? That's a special little tourist area designed just for you. Cross a little water where all the population lives. Burger King is cardboard with ketchup - there is no meat in it. Those kabobs - they take garbage bags off the street after the night, and use the whole bag plastic and all as firewood to cook your food.
You. Know. Literally nothing about this world. Staying walking distance to the Hilton or an attraction from google maps gives you zero knowledge about the country. Fucking retard.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:48AM (28 children)
Saudi Arabia is acting like the US and UK. That cannot be allowed. They can't just go into some foreign country, and liquidate some person they don't like! Next, they'll be flying drones over Washington!
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:58AM (13 children)
When was the last time the US or UK carried out an assassination this brazen on foreign soil? (Drone strikes don't count!)
The Bin Laden raid comes to mind. But Bin Laden wasn't a Washington Post columnist, and was in hiding.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:29AM (1 child)
Drone strikes don't count? Why not? Those are pretty damned brazen.
Since you seem to unaware of crimes committed by the US and/or US operatives, you might start with the wiki page on black ops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_operation [wikipedia.org]
Then you might recall the Blackwater mercenaries, who carried out a lot of US missions that were too "sensitive" to commit troops directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater:_The_Rise_of_the_World%27s_Most_Powerful_Mercenary_Army [wikipedia.org]
Bear in mind that a successful mission never made the news. If clandestine operations are reported, then they have failed to some degree, or maybe even completely.
I was having one of those brain farts, finally remembered the term I want: rendition. First three links after putting that word into a search:
http://oilempire.us/rendition.html [oilempire.us]
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/05/08/a-brief-history-of-american-torture/ [counterpunch.org]
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/12/09/usa-and-torture-history-hypocrisy [hrw.org]
Here, you may be tempted to complain that the US plays by certain rules, or something. That our targets are suspected of terrorism, or something. Or, that our targets are comatants, or something. Complain away.
The fact remains that we commit acts similar to what Saudi Arabia is accused of in this instance.
You may also complain that Saudi Arabia and/or some other country doesn't play this game by our rules, which would be hilarious. If a con man in the street, or a huckster at a bar, bets you that he can do $impossible feat, do you take his bet? Derp! Of course you don't! His game, his rules, he wins no matter what. Ditto in the global geopolitical scene. If we write the rules, and everyone agrees to play by our rules, we are certain to win.
Hence, we see China playing our game, BY THEIR OWN RULES.
Getting off track here. Do your own search, and you'll find plenty of renditions in our history.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:38AM
All too commonly our combatants are wedding guests
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:32AM (4 children)
Why don't drone strikes count? Is it because a drone can kill lots of people at a wedding?
Hey, whats 63 deaths between friends? [wikipedia.org]
I mean, sometimes the bride cops it. Along with 46 of her friends and family. [wikipedia.org]
Here's another wedding hit by drones. [aljazeera.com]
Going to a wedding can be dangerous for some people. I am not sure why these dead people don't count, but a journalist does.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:49AM (3 children)
A drone strike isn't on the foreign soil, duh!
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:33AM (2 children)
You're losing it, or at least you've failed to communicate anything meaningful with that post. Are you suggesting that the US only launches drone strikes on it's own soil? In that respect, the SA incident has more "morality" than our drone strikes, because the murder took place within an SA embassy. It is recognized that an embassy is sovereign soil of the nation occupying that embassy.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday October 17 2018, @08:36AM (1 child)
You are more missing the pedantic point that a drone is usually airborne when it strikes.
Technically, it makes it not on a foreign soils, but in a foreign air-space.
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:16PM
*rolleyes*
It's where the bodies fall that counts, I think. When blown to hell, the bodies tend to land in mideastern nations.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Fluffeh on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:44AM (1 child)
At least they knocked off one of their own citizens. On the other hand... we... well... anyone we don't like is fair game apparently.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday October 17 2018, @06:14AM
*for the US, UK, Israel, probably many others..
FTFY
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by DavePolaschek on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:57PM
I feel dirty citing Buzzfeed, but this was in my twitter feed this morning.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/aramroston/mercenaries-assassination-us-yemen-uae-spear-golan-dahlan [buzzfeednews.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:09PM (2 children)
Additionally, Bin Laden wasn't killed merely for his opinions.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:33PM
His opinions on American imperialism were 2strong! :))))
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:26PM
He was killed either in a completely animalistic act of revenge, or good politics, or because he knew too much about US covert activities. Had all 3 of those things not been true, we'd have wanted to interrogate him to get whatever information we could.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:17AM (12 children)
Not seeing anyone else luring innocent people into a safe space for paperwork, then those selfsame people leave feet first, in pieces, not under their own power.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:45AM (11 children)
scroll up a wee bit, see my response to takyon
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Snotnose on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:19AM (10 children)
Understood. IMHO, when a drone kills a possible terrorist it creates 2-3 more. Kinda like the reaction Oppenheimer et al created some 80 years ago but with people, not atoms.
I don't understand drone strikes. From what I hear for every terrorist we kill we also kill 2-3 innocent civilians. That's not counting the dude attending a wedding where we kill him, plus the bride/groom, bridesmaids, everyone's family, etc.
How would you feel if, I dunno, Canada, ran drones over us that would spontaneously shoot missiles at random crowds of people and then say "but we killed a dude that posted on Facebook he wanted to kill Canadians"? Even if we could show he was planning to do so, how about the 2-20 innocent civilians killed?
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:26AM (6 children)
We probably wouldn't object if you targeted that Beiber kid. Sacrificing 20 random Americans would be relatively easy in that case.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:44AM (1 child)
I, shit. I'm not sure what to say about that. Except it would be a good thing for humanity in general, long as anyone I cared about wasn't in the blast radius. And as I, and everyone I care about actually tries to make society better, mostly out of staying as far away as possible to the Biebers of the world, odds of anyone I care about being within blast radius of a Bieber Bomb (tm) is minuscule, I guess I have to say Go For it!
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday October 17 2018, @09:50AM
That's a dangerous line of thought. Whatever the ideal world population is, likely we are above that. If 90% of humanity (chosen at random) dropped dead right now, without any collateral damage, that could be mostly good for the lucky 10% that lived. Sure, important people would be lost, and that would slow progress, but humanity would recover.
Saudi Arabia has been one of the worst offenders when it comes to unrestrained population growth. The Saudi monarchy has pursued a short sighted policy of populist appeasement. Give their people huge handouts. Why not, since they have so much wealth? Now they have a lot of young people with bleak prospects and doubtful futures. America had its Wild West times and regions. That whole "go west young man" was established family pushing the "surplus" away. So many families from the 19th century were huge. Now Saudi Arabia has those kinds of times.
I saw a video that some young Saudis made, of a crazy car stunt. On a long straight stretch of road, they swerved their vehicle so that one side rose up into the air. The driver kept the car balanced on 2 wheels for many minutes and kilometers, driving along at some 100 kph, while the passengers got out some lug wrenches and took the other 2 wheels off, to show that they could. One bump in the road, one bit of debris, one spot of bad traffic, one strong gust of wind from the side, any of that could have knocked the car off balance and resulted in an accident with almost certainly fatalities. Can't very well keep your seatbelts on if you're trying to hang out the window far enough to reach the lug nuts. Then they put the wheels back on and let the car come back down on all 4. Now think of the craziest, most risk loving maniacs you knew in high school. Was there not just one, but a large enough group of them all friends with each other and crazy enough to try a stunt like that? Saudi youth must evidently feel they haven't got much to lose.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:32AM (3 children)
I thought he was Canadian.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:53AM (2 children)
We shipped him down there.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @09:05AM (1 child)
Isn't that bioterrorism?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:19PM
Exactly, so we owe the Canucks one.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:52AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:26PM (1 child)
Canada has drone canoes?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:07PM
With laser beams.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:27AM
Good to know it meets with your approval. I guess since Khashoggi wasn't right-wing or anti-left enough for your tastes so he's dispensable. Stay classy.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by edIII on Wednesday October 17 2018, @12:56AM (6 children)
What I don't understand is Orange Anus. First he effusively declares his love and admiration of Kimmie (after shit talking him), same for Putin (his boss), and now Saudi royalty. Anybody that is in the position to have claims laid against them, Orange Anus defends. Loves to talk about himself as the victim of mob mentality and guilty-before-innocent logic, yet the people he defends.....
He comes up with weird ass conspiracies to explain away the quite easily explainable: The Saudis tortured and killed a critic of the monarchy. Same with some privileged rich little shit that needs to be investigated for rape, but how could he, when Orange Anus crippled the FBI investigation?
I guess Orange Anus's biggest problem is that a bad Saudi Arabia takes his away his positive points of a successful arms deal (if he kills it), and anybody forced to take responsibility for such abuses scares him. For reasons that should be incredibly obvious.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:03AM (3 children)
Part of the defense, the "rogue killers" angle, seems to have been uttered after he talked to the Saudis. But throughout this debacle, President Trump has emphasized the importance of the $100 billion arms deal.
So here's how it will go. Saudi Arabia will lay out their defense. "Yeah, we wanted to talk to this guy. But we never authorized any killing." They will give some of the killers a show trial, and perhaps even execute them. This will be deemed good enough for Trump, although Saudi Arabia still stands to lose billions in foreign investment over this.
Never before has a cost benefit analysis been laid out like this. One guy's life, vs. $100 billion. Or was it $110 billion? Or a lot less? [talkingpointsmemo.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:31AM (1 child)
The Cheeto in Charge has one thing right: If we don't sell the weapons to SA then someone else will. Are our weapon systems better than the competition? How well do they work in actual combat? 3 ways to find out:
1) test test test. Expensive, and tests can be rigged (see also: F-35) (see also: Hurricane, 10% of your very expensive F22s are now toast cuz shit's too expensive).
2) Get into a war and cross your fingers. Expensive. Things could turn out badly
3) Sell to other countries and let them do #2. Cheaper, but you end up selling to people you'd rather not.
You guessed it, sell the damned things to shitholes like SA and hope for a war, then see how well things worked out.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 18 2018, @11:20AM
That's like saying if we don't bomb a bus full of children, then somebody else will...
(Somebody else already posted a link to the news about it.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:29PM
$110 billion? for one life? That is a steal.
No, really, that's really a great deal. See...
About $9 Million per life [wikipedia.org]
Or maybe...
"Today, the U.S. Office of Management and Budget puts the value of a human life in the range of $7 million to $9 million." [theglobalist.com]
When something like "health insurance" and "life insurance" exist, lot's not pretend that lives are literally priceless.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:14AM
MBS has made enemies with his religious and social reforms while Turkey, Iran, Syria and Russia potentially benefit from backlash over this killing. Think [intellihub.com] bigger [extranewsfeed.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:29AM
Not for the reasons you would expect
Low oil prices in 2015 led to the shutdown of lots of wells as well as the cancellation of plane to drill new ones
That led to decreased heavy equipment sales, with layoffs as well as decreased sales by parts suppliers
That equipment is made mostly in states that voted for trump
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:23AM (1 child)
What? Are they testing world reaction first and if not as expected admit something else? Is this AB testing of news headlines?
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:32AM
Saudis preparing to admit Jamal Khashoggi died during interrogation, sources say [cnn.com]
Saudi government considering plan to admit that writer Jamal Khashoggi was killed in consulate [nbcnews.com]
Saudis to admit journalist was killed, assert death a result of botched interrogation, according to media reports [usatoday.com]
Saudis Admit Journalist Khashoggi Died During Botched Assassination Attempt [theonion.com] :^)
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:24AM (1 child)
I read somewhere that Turkish authorities found a bone saw in the luggage of one of the Saudis
I figure they were planning to sneak the journalist out in some diplomatic pouches
"Pouches" plur
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @09:08AM
Khashoggi Jobs do not exist!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:32AM (1 child)
The two words to keep in mind regarding this are "bone saw". The 15 Saudi nationals who arrived in Turkey on private jets - in the middle of the night - didn't bring much with them, but they reportedly brought a bone saw with them. I don't know about you, but I don't usually bring my bone saw with me on vacation - especially if I'm staying less than 24 hours.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:55AM
You don't want to buy a cheap bone saw at the local hardware store. You need the best to greet your guest.
On a serious note, that info should be considered a rumor, like a lot of what we "know" about this event.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Mykl on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:50AM (1 child)
I find it amazing that the Saudis are even bothering with a cover story, given how bad that cover story still sounds...
"I mean sure, we planned to sneak in a bunch of murderous thugs onto foreign soil, kidnap, extradite, torture and probably kill a guy because he says bad things about us, but that bone saw we brought in was just for show! We'd _never_ actually do it in the consulate itself, despite it technically being on our own soil! What do you think we are, barbarians?!"
Functionally, there seems to be no difference at all between the Saudi authorities, ISIS and the Taliban.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Goghit on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:04PM
Funny you should say that. The ultra-conservative/extremist form of Islam known as Wahhabism has its 200 year old roots in Saudi Arabia. Following a devil's bargain between its originator and the House of Saud Wahhabism has been the official state religion once the House of Saud grew to controlling most of the peninsula rather than a small chunk of sand. Since then they've been actively exported Wahhabism to other parts of the Muslim world. So yes, you are correct that there is no difference between them, they are all Wahhabists. Saudi Arabia is the motherlode and source of inspiration and funding for a lot of Islamic extremism.
There is a reason that most of the 911 attackers originated in Saudi Arabia, not Iraq or Canada as some believe. Kind of amusing when you see pictures of an American president giving hand jobs to members of the House of Saud.
The world moving to a low-carbon economy would thoroughly fuck these fuckers. Pity we can't do that because reasons, not least of which that it would affect the Houses of Koch/Bush/et al.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Hartree on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:30AM (2 children)
Letting audio of a killing get out, let alone doing it in your consulate instead of a back alley? (Khashoggi)
Leaving nerve gas remnants where some bystander can find them? (Skripal. who didn't die but a random lady did.)
Is it just me, or are these spooks getting pretty incompetent at murdering their own citizens or innocents lately?
Maybe the New Jersey Mob could give them a few pointers on how to do a proper rubbing out.
(Score: 2) by jelizondo on Wednesday October 17 2018, @05:38AM (1 child)
I been wondering if spies/wet operations have really become that stupid or if there is another explanation.
Too many clues left, too casually.
Perhaps false flag operations?
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Wednesday October 17 2018, @07:25AM
More like chaos theory of "intelligence(tm)" work...
Do whatever you want, but do all the associated stuff so badly no one will believe the truth, and if enough "others" stand to benefit, fingers will be pointed everywhere
Which pretty much seems to be what is happening here.
I also suspect the interrogation was only interested in testing the staff at the embassy (and the cleaners and painters)
Turns out, they have confirmed they have (at least) one leaker. Dead journalist was picked, as slicing up a junior attaché wouldn't have helped find the mole.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @03:44AM (5 children)
Let the Saudis turn off the oil spigots. It would be about the stupidest thing they could do. You know who would make out like bandits? The United States (among others). North Dakota, whose economy has already been juiced by the Bakken Formation, would go totally bananas with the windfall. Second, it would put the American and global transition to EVs on steroids.
And all of that would be because they were stupid and clumsy and in a fit of pique had a guy who was criticizing them murdered and dismembered on foreign soil. Not just any foreign soil, BTW, but the foreign soil of the former regional imperial power that is currently ruled by a guy who dreams of reviving the Ottoman Empire. This gives them a causus belli to do that very thing. I mean, how much of a colossal fuck-up do you have to be bring all that geopolitical and economic calamity down on your head because some meaningless dick insulted you?
When it comes to the Saudis, they have no other play besides oil. What, are they going to continue to fund madrassas that teach wahhabism? Are they going to stop selling us sand? I know, they'll cut off the world supply of burkas, because one surefire way to bring the Christian West and atheist Chinese to their knees is to force them to look upon the unhidden flesh of their women.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Wednesday October 17 2018, @10:05AM (3 children)
They also have money they got for selling this oil. It can be used to create a lot of disruption. For example, threats of suspending monetary aid: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-yemen-children-ban-ki-moon.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 17 2018, @01:55PM (2 children)
I guess. It still seems like a one-shot weapon. Once they've killed the revenue from oil, any other stores of cash will quickly run out. The Saudis don't exactly live frugally.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by loonycyborg on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:43PM (1 child)
Once their oil runs out they'll switch to solar :P
(Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:28PM
Or clean coal, which they can buy from the US.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 17 2018, @06:16PM
Let the Saudis turn off the oil spigots. It would be about the stupidest thing they could do. You know who would make out like bandits? The United States...
Something people aren't really aware of:
The United States is now the largest global crude oil producer [eia.gov]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:29AM (1 child)
would be cool to have some (direct) hyperlinks to the stuff this journalist wrote so we all can get a clue as to what letter combinations might invoke the "bone saw" curse.
also, i do hope they have recouperated all that investment in concret towers and artificial sand hills in the ocean before turning off the oil and forcing everybody else to find alternative and more peaceful (dare i add: more renewable) sources of energy?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday October 17 2018, @04:40AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @02:11PM (1 child)
To me this story doesn't quite pass the smell test. This guy was a US resident, he had a green card. Why did he fly to Turkey? To visit the Saudi embassy there, allegedly to get a piece of paper saying he was divorced under Muslim & Saudi law, so he could remarry? Why would he care about that, living in the US? Why did (or didn't) he visit the Saudi embassy in DC? He was not on good terms with Saudi royalty, surely he knew he was at risk going in there? As usual the media skips the details and 'if it bleeds, it leads'. Not good enough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @06:27PM
The reason he was getting the paperwork at the Saudi Embassy was to take it to Turkish government officials in the process of planning a wedding with his Turkish bride. In that respect this story makes complete and routine sense.
The fact that he felt comfortable enough to visit the Saudi embassy also implies he thought he had done nothing sufficient enough to warrant Saudi authority, nevermind wetworks, attention.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday October 17 2018, @11:48PM (1 child)
I swear, it is getting insane the things The Narrative tells us we should be concerned with and what we shouldn't notice.
Lets unpack this one. KSA (Kindom of Saudi Arabia) executes a LOT of people, has done so for a long time. We are in an alliance of convenience with them for sound geopolitical reasons. This particular guy is a Citizen of KSA, not the U.S. even though he held a Green Card for reasons not explored in media accounts but highly dubious considering the next part. He has extensive links to pretty much everyone naughty in that part of the world. Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, knew UBL from way back before we put a bullet into him, ya know a really swell dude that would have made a good candidate for a drone strike except for one little detail. The guy blogs for Jeff Bezos.
And that really is the only reason we are being given for lighting our hair on fire, canceling hundred billion dollar arms deals, upsetting the whole balance of power in the Middle East and so on. The guy's cover was blogging for Jeff Bezos. Remove that detail, that had nothing (that anyone will admit to at least) with why the KSA may or may not (but yeah, probably did) whack one of their citizens for being on the wrong side of their recent succession struggle.
In 2012 America abandoned an Ambassador and several of our fighting men in Libya and the press aided and abetted in the coverup on the eve of an election to avoid embarrassing the U.S. leadership. Now we are not supposed to ask questions when this story goes wall to wall for days on end. Screw that. Don't care, this story is NOT important and that doesn't change if a few idiots scream loudly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 18 2018, @11:39AM
So Saudis belong to the group of nations, like China, Iran, United States and Somalia. ref [wikipedia.org]
The reasons for the US-SA alliance are not sound, you know that and decided to not spell them out.
And the US constantly & regularly disturbs the power balance of Middle East, even as we speak. Guns are firing and drones are out.
So you say we should forget about the current killing and concentrate on some silly incident you imply happened in 2012? This doesn't exactly sound sane either.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 17 2018, @11:51PM
Who to believe: the ally who funded Bin Laden or the ally that sheltered him?