Don't complain about lack of options. You've got to pick a few when you do multiple choice. Those are the breaks.
Feel free to suggest poll ideas if you're feeling creative. I'd strongly suggest reading the past polls first.
This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25, @05:36AM
(2 children)
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday April 25, @05:36AM (#1440782)
I get €150/month in cash from my local ATM. Almost all of my payments are made using card. At the end of the month the €150 is down to a low non-zero figure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 08, @01:01AM
by Anonymous Coward
on Friday May 08, @01:01AM (#1441869)
I usually blow about $600/month in cash. 20's and 100's.
Walmart usually gets the 100's. Restaurants and fueling stations get the 20's. If I hire help, they get cash too. Many do not have bank accounts. They need something to pay their landlord or buy assistance and fuel for their truck.
Like energy conversion, currency/wealth transfer is often terribly inefficient with considerable loss in getting the business hand to shake and their pen to sign. I try to bypass these useless middlemen as much as possible. Cash flow attracts meddlemen ( misspelling deliberate ) permission-givers so much there is often almost nothing left for the guy that earned his pay.
I mean, it depends a lot on the value of that information, right? My local grocery store probably knows how much garlic I go through in a given year. But how much does that information help them (or anyone else for that matter), with anything? Like, OK, now you know I'm not vampire yet, but I'm still not sure how much that helps you. Or you could send me targeted ads, but all that will do is maybe change when I buy garlic versus deciding that what I already have on hand is sufficient.
And there are some transactions where lots of people besides the buyer and seller had better know I made them, e.g. real estate purchases only have value because government is helping me enforce them.
-- "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
Yeah okay I concede your point about real estate, but that's pretty much a red herring. Houses cost at least several hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars each and even I'm not silly enough to carry around that much cash! As an individual (businesses are a different story), a house is probably the only thing you'll ever buy that's too expensive to pay cash for. The next biggest purchase of a lifetime is likely a car; and any car that normal people can afford can be paid for in cash without having to carry around suitcases full of it.
And your example of public disclosure is one thing. But selective disclosure only to a bunch of useless middle men (banks, credit card companies, payment gateway operators, etc.) who absolutely will monetise in any way they can any and all data collected about you, that's a different kettle of fish. They can't do that with public data, because by definition everybody already has access to it.
As for the grocers, yes of course my grocer will know what I bought from him, because he was a party to the transaction. But there's absolutely no reason to let anyone else know anything about that transaction: quite simply it's nobody else's business but mine and the grocer's. Even the Government doesn't need to know (all they need to know is how much GST the grocer collected in aggregate from all customers across the whole month; and various other aggregated financial measures across the whole year for income tax assessment purposes).
Re the garlic, there is an alternative hypothesis: perhaps you are a vampire and are simply buying up and destroying as much garlic as you can, to stop others from getting their hands on it ;).
But selective disclosure only to a bunch of useless middle men (banks, credit card companies, payment gateway operators, etc.) who absolutely will monetise in any way they can any and all data collected about you, that's a different kettle of fish.
I agree that they will monetize it in any way they can. However, if the data in question is so worthless that there is no monetary value to it, they can't.
-- "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
It's the aggregation of large amounts of data that is valuable, not any particular datum. The interactions and patterns are important and it's this that compromises your autonomy if you have poor data hygiene.
I don't want WalMart making it public how much likker or what brand I am using.
They put it out, it sells. They get some more. I have noticed they are extremely good at this.
I have bought them out of oddball products. Within a couple of days, they usually have some more.
Oddball stuff. A particular size and style of boot. A particular size of oil filter. A particular drink mixer. I am quite impressed by their ability to track what things will sell where and move stock around accordingly.
I remember studying stuff like that in a data structures class. Basically, the sales floors are also a distributed warehouse. Any item checked out initiates a sequence to replace it. It amazes me how efficient the stores have become.
-- "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
I would guess garlic purchase is strongly correlated with a number of factors. E.g. in UK
You buy garlic -> you cook for yourself from base ingredients e.g. probably middle class You buy garlic -> this is a store cupboard ingredient, that implies that you are responsible for the weekly shop. If you are male, that indicates that you are single. The amount of garlic you buy is an indicator of marital status You buy garlic -> this indicates a mediterranean cooking style, probably you are more aware of international cultures.
I guess you are a pro EU, probably voting for a centre left political stand point, middle to high earnings, single male.
I may be wrong on many inferences. But statistically I am probably right. A professional profiler with full access to your shop will do a way better job.
Certainly not the only ad profiler I've seen get me very wrong indeed, like trying to sell me undergarments and personal hygiene products that don't match my gender or anatomy. I'm happy for them to continue to be wrong about me, and if I can feed them data that confuses them even more, continuing to degrade the value of all this tracking, all the better.
-- "Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
I cook from base ingredients because my partner has rare and frustrating allergies I am responsible for the weekly shop, because they are lazier and more entitled than me I buy unholy amounts of garlic because I am willfully ignorant of all other cooking styles
You are, I concede, mostly correct on all other points.
The kind of profiling the other poster mentioned is all about statistics. Of course they get stuff wrong, but that doesn't matter in the big picture. Plus, if they get similar data about a person's consumption of other items, they can refine the profile based on those and correct certain assumptions. Notice how the other poster said "If you are male..." Garlic consumption on its own doesn't confirm or deny gender, but if the same consumer also favors items or activities that statistically do, then a picture still starts to emerge.
Of course statistical errors may lead to you getting advertisements for the wrong gender. Hell, one does not even need statistics for that: I'm male, but I once purchased something "stereotypically female" online for abuse in a DIY project (hey, I'm a geeky tinkering engineer). As I later found out, that website blindly assumed that I was a woman and it still occasionally sends me e-mails addressed to Mrs. X. On the other hand, some 18 years ago, I've also been targeted on my office laptop with ads specifically tuned for my sexuality, despite using that machine only for SFW work related purposes. Somehow, some profiler figured me out from my private laptop use and then sold the data to some other brokers and/or profilers until one of them also happened to have a record linking me to both machines. Possibly because of frequently visiting the same geeky websites both for work and for hobby purposes (did I mention that I'm a geeky tinkering engineer?)
Agreed, I basically take out my monthly outgoings in cash right after my paycheck arrives. Apart from paying my rent and internet (which is not feasible with cash) I am 100% cash. Aside from the privacy benefits, I find it much easier to budget.
There is a strong psychological connection when I see my paycheck as a fat wad of cash at the beginning of the month, and as it thins out during the week I seem to intuitively reduce my expenditure , as a result I never go over budget for the month (ignoring any emergencies).
Since doing this I have been able to put aside far more of my paycheck, get out of debt, etc... Back when I was mostly using cards (especially contactless), I would tap away during the month then when the bill came I would wonder where the hell all the money went.
The itemised bill does not help because all I see is lots of medium to small transactions, with names of companies that I don't recognize. Seems companies trading names are different to the ones they use for billing, plus a lot of the transactions are for the payment processor.
So really there is no benefit to using cards. I get less privacy, I get an itemised bill that is useless, and every once in a while they don't work. I see it when I do my grocery shop. Every month or so I end up in a queue because somebodies card transaction won't go through. That tells me that it must happen quite often, as there are multiple queue lanes for paying.
It is also much slower paying with card, especially if you are asked for the pin. With added abstractions with phone/smartwatch payments it can take even longer. I remember last time some dude was all proud showing off his smartwatch and tapped it to pay, but it didn't work. So he got out his phone to fiddle with it, turned Bluetooth off and on again, etc... tried the watch again with no luck. Then he tried by tapping his phone, still no luck, before finally storming off to find an ATM, after which he returned and paid with cash.
Took a good 20 mins, by which time we could have cleared the entire queue 3 times over if we all used cash.
Really the original unique selling point of cards is that they would be faster and more convenient, but they have successfully made the whole experience slower and less convenient. I can't think of any reason not to use cash, apart from those who need to buy on credit.
Also my bank keeps trying to incentivise me to use my debit card more, offering discounts, bonuses, benefits, etc... which tells me there is something they gain from me using the card but I don't exactly know what. Still that is enough to discourage me to use the card even more, as I doubt it would be to my benefit.
Since doing this I have been able to put aside far more of my paycheck, get out of debt, etc... Back when I was mostly using cards (especially contactless), I would tap away during the month then when the bill came I would wonder where the hell all the money went.
Couldn't agree more. Yes, that's the other reason why any form of non-cash payment (except cheques, but we're about to lose them here in 3 years) should be avoided like the plague.
So really there is no benefit to using cards.
There is only one benefit, as far as I can tell. They are more convenient for international transactions. I still have one, solely for when I need to buy something from overseas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 26, @04:11PM
(1 child)
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday April 26, @04:11PM (#1440863)
... and that is why you do not own a car, or a home. Not that you don't want to, not because you refuse to have your name on such a transaction, but because you can't afford it, because your economic outlook is simply impractical to accumulate any large-ish amount of money.
... and that is why you do not own a car, or a home.
Actually I own 3 cars ... and I paid cash for 2 of them.
Home ownership is a different kettle of fish again: around here at least, these days most people can't afford to own a home. There are many causes (it's a complex problem that both sides of politics have tried, unsuccessfully, to solve for many years), but use of cash isn't one of them. If anything, those of us who refuse to use non-cash payment methods for domestic transactions tend to save a greater proportion of our income than those who embrace them do (as another poster pointed out above).
With inflation, these two are kind of the same option
Enough for regular errands
An unreasonably large amount
Another topic is with structural shifts in the economy I can't go to the mall with a wallet of cash and come home with a haircut, a nice lunch in my belly, clothes, book, software/games. That mall and most of the malls like it are dead, and its hard to pay for Amazon with cash, so ...
When I was a young guy fresh outta school back when the malls were still alive in the 90s I had kind of regular route where I didn't do this every weekend but most saturdays I did some subset of visit Sears Dental and shop while waiting for my appointment then wander over to the food court and eat some kind of mysterious food meal, then put my name on the haircut list at the haircut place and wander over to the bookstore and look for books until around the time I figure I could wander back and get a haircut. Then maybe a quick trip to one of the THREE different software and game stores the mall had or maybe Radio Shack if I was working on a project at home and needed another roll of hookup wire or some solder or a plastic box or whatever. Maybe wander into one of the clothes stores and buy a nice new work shirt or get some shoes. Stop at one of the snack stores and buy some freshly roasted pecans or chocolate somethings or whatever for the road. Then drive home. That entire experience is economically dead now. The housing bubble perked it up until '08 or so but it was well on the way out by Y2K. So I don't need pocket money for a surprise stop at Radio Shack on the way home from work anymore. Partially because I don't have a commute anymore LOL.
I generally carry enough for a tank of gas, a meal for four, and a few bucks leftover.
That amount generally stays in my wallet for several months before needing a top-up, if pay-at-the-pump isn't working I'll generally go to another pump or station, while I _could_ pay cash for meals out I generally don't, and then we can talk about groceries - a good 2 week grocery trip can be enough to wipe out all that cash and more at a single shot...
Sometimes I'll shop somewhere sketchy (new Asian market? flea market? head shop... that one is more to avoid a paper trail...) and those are cash transactions - handling cash is a hassle, but in those circumstances I can be assured that they won't use my cash to attempt to buy things for themselves or others under my credit...
I carry cash in my wallet because there are times when credit cards or ATM cards don't work. I ran into such a situation a couple years ago when the credit card reader at a motel I had a reservation at failed. I had more than enough cash with me to pay for my room. Cash is useful.
-- It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
I'm the reverse - I carry a card because some places can't accept cash. I try and avoid those places, but frequently they hide the fact that they don't accept cash until there's nothing you can do about it - like when a parking garage holds your car hostage unless you pay with a card.
We ate at a (crowded) restaurant a while back - got to the end of the meal and the waitress came to the table with the checks and said "like I told you when you came in, we don't accept cash..." well, biotch, you did NOT tell us that, and one of the parties here doesn't carry credit around - luckily her bill with tip came to right at $80, so I just paid both checks with my card - easy peasy, but don't go around telling your customers "we told you when you came in" and not tell them when they come in.
That should be illegal. Last time I looked, printed on the bills was "good for all debts, public and private." Perhaps in some countries you can refuse to take money for legal purchases.
There are places here that only take cash, but I've never seen anywhere that refused it.
-- The Epstein Memorial Golden Presidential Ballroom: Let them eat cake.
Yeah, my understanding of "the law" is that acceptance of treasury issued cash, any form of genuine US Treasury issued cash from pennies through thousand dollar bills if you've got 'em, is required.
However, gas station convenience stores and similar have been scofflaw about "no bills larger than $20" since the 80s and before.
Since the pandemic, we've seen an upswing around here of "cash free venues" particularly large stadium events and similar - and now these mob-scene restaurants are pulling the same shit.
But, hey, we elected a convicted felon, and Hollywood has been heavily lionizing outlaw rebels since the 1960s - people are livin' the dream: yeah, it's illegal, but who cares? So, sue me - if you got the balls, punk. /s
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 05, @05:00AM
by Anonymous Coward
on Tuesday May 05, @05:00AM (#1441607)
That is incorrect on two levels. First is that the legal tender rule only applies to debts, not any other type of transaction or contract including quasi-debts. Second is that the legal tender rule does not require the acceptance of currency even for debts. The legal tender rule says that the offer of currency is the act that satisfies the debt (but doesn't excuse performance). This is different from other forms of repayment where they satisfy the debt upon completion of performance. The only side effect you'll ever really see from that is the cancelling of interest upon making a legally recognized offer of currency to a valid debt.
I carry enough cash to for dinner for two at a fancy restaurant, but not enough to buy a new car. Usually somewhere between the maximum amount the ATM will let me withdraw and twice that amount.
I don't really think of it as an Unreasonable amount, but it's more than virtually everyone else I know.
Around here our ATM max is $400... which works out to $65 in 1975 money... I used to walk about with $50-100 in the 1970s. The ATM max when ATMs came out in the 1980s was $400, and it hasn't changed since (for my credit union, at least.)
We did buy a car for cash once, called the bank and had them raise our ATM limit, pulled $2500 from one ATM in 7 transactions.
In 1975 I was honorably discharged from the USAF, on unemployment before starting college. $65 was s shitload of money to me then, almost a month's rent. You could rent a house for $80. My big on-campus college apartment was $70. Gas was 60¢ a gallon. Cigarettes were 30¢ a pack.
Not all of us were born with a silver spoon, Elon. Even today when I have everything I need and can afford almost anything I want and have about $5k in my checking account (luckily for me I have an EV, my lawn tools are electric and I don't use gasoline), bought a used car for my daughter with a credit card (0% interest, excellent credit) I still almost never withdraw more than $200. Why would I need so much cash?
-- The Epstein Memorial Golden Presidential Ballroom: Let them eat cake.
And in 1971 it was closer to 30¢ a gallon. Back then, the news told us that major inflationary shocks like that were due to foreigners (like OPEC) abusing us. Now the mask is off - we're clearly initiating these things ourselves.
On another front, $400 was "almost a month's rent" in most of the greater Miami area in the early 1980s. These days those same places rent closer to $1500 per month. Even "affordable" Jacksonville Florida is around $1300 per month.
Cash is not only convenient sometimes, it is also a safeguard against government control. Cash allows for economic transactions uncontrolled and unmonitored by the government. All cashless means can, in principle, be shut down by the government. I try to pay as much in cash as possible to stimulate the underlying cash infrastructure. I have to admit that self-scanning at the supermarket (with a supermarket provided app) is convenient and time-saving (unlike the self-checkout) and have done this most of the time recently. Still, I want to pay cash from time to time.
Credit cards make purchases and keeping track of them much easier, but there are still places that don't take plastic. Here in Springfield, that I have visited:
Felber's The Lucky Lady Laundry Ascend cannabis dispensary Kid that sold weed before 2020 when it was legalized Kid that mowed my lawn when my lawnmower was broken Birthday and Christmas cards (the best gift cards have dead presidents on them)
Also one or two more I can't think of off the top of my head, as well as anything you don't want tracked; say, medicine in a drug store for an embarrassing condition.
-- The Epstein Memorial Golden Presidential Ballroom: Let them eat cake.
Flagged Comment by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday May 07, @07:33PM (#1441846)
Flagged Comment by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday May 07, @09:39PM (#1441861)
Flagged Comment by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday May 09, @01:18AM (#1441985)
Flagged Comment by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday May 09, @08:37AM (#1442009)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 10, @05:25PM
(1 child)
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday May 10, @05:25PM (#1442154)
I try to use cash everywhere so usually not much of it in my wallet. Deny the digital tyranny currently being pushed in every aspect of our lives!
Almost exclusively conservatives and 'centrists' left round these parts. Even the US Gestapo gets a pass as merely un-professional. Sad to see the state of discussions these days. Really expected more of the "free thinkers" to use cash, but convenience is King.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, @08:48PM
by Anonymous Coward
on Tuesday May 12, @08:48PM (#1442335)
Sad times. I see where you are allegedly coming from. Since your threshold for personal attacks is arbitrary there is no discussion to be had here. As for accounts, feel free to create one for me and if I get control before another user I will use that account. Otherwise that us merely an attempt to minimize issues as usual.
He wasn't discussing ideas - he was accusing someone of abuse, which wasn't what khallow said.
ACs have no credibility because they haven't established any, and if they are hiding behind anonymity to accuse someone of something they are most certainly cowards. Quite a befitting monika, really.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @03:06PM
(6 children)
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday May 17, @03:06PM (#1442683)
You are being deliberately obtuse. Khallow dismissed the AC as having no history therefore not being worth listening to. At what point does it become not ok to use someone's history against them, can we dismiss the TDS lefties or conservatives based on such identity politics?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @05:16PM
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday May 17, @05:16PM (#1442694)
The moderation is fine, your cowardice and hypocrisy are not. Veiled threats are super great community management, what fresh or rehashed lies do you plan to put forth? Do not trouble yourself, I am done here since you repeat your tough guy persona instead of facing your issues.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, @11:10PM
by Anonymous Coward
on Friday May 15, @11:10PM (#1442579)
All the young kids should remember this when the cashiers run the card multiple times before giving up. I had a card for seven years that never ever got approved the first time. Always took at least two tries before going through.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, @09:42PM
by Anonymous Coward
on Friday May 15, @09:42PM (#1442576)
Let’s turn to Justice Samuel Alito, whose dissent is slightly less crazy but way funnier because he’s big mad. Alito complained that blue states are undermining his decision in Dobbs, which overruled Roe v. Wade, by allowing their providers to mail medication abortion into states where they’re banned. Alito actually pointed out that there are more abortions happening in Louisiana now than before Dobbs because of telehealth mifepristone. And he faults the FDA for “facilitat[ing]” this “felonious” conduct.
We should just pause to note here that Louisiana, if it wants, can choose to arrest people who use abortion pills under Dobbs. It already has laws that prohibit the dispensation of abortion pills. It has many tools to persecute people who exercise or facilitate reproductive freedom within its borders. What Louisiana cannot do is reach across its state lines into New York and prosecute or fine a New York provider who’s engaging in conduct that’s completely legal under her state’s laws. That’s what Alito can’t wrap his head around. It seems like he really thought Dobbs was going to end abortion in red states forever, and he’s sore as hell that blue states outsmarted him.
What’s jarring to me is that we’ve had this conversation before, more than 150 years ago. Today’s shield laws are so similar to the personal liberty laws from the 1800s, when free states said: We’re not going to return Black people who escaped from slave states. Here, again, we have judges like Alito suggesting that unfree states should be able to reach into free states and impose their laws on everyone else—to impose their unfreedom across the whole country. They’re saying that free states should not be able to assist other people fleeing injustice. These are the reasons why we have the 14th Amendment; it’s exactly the kind of thing the Constitution should prevent. But because the right-wing movement has been dismantling the Reconstruction Amendments, that leaves us where we are today instead.
My wallet currently contains 20 EUR in cash (two notes of 10) and has done so since I last paid cash for a haircut 2 weeks ago. The only reason why I paid cash back then, is that I needed a fresh supply of coins for use in the soda machine at work. So, yes, I currently also have 6.85 EUR in coins on me in my pocket. As it turns out, said machine is my main reason for still using cash.
I do, however, permanently maintain exactly 1000 EUR cash in a hidden envelope at home, just in case I need some and have no time to go get it at an ATM - there being no such thing within at least 10 km of my house.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday April 25, @02:08AM (1 child)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by cereal_burpist on Saturday April 25, @02:54AM
50-50 now, looks like we're in sudden-death overtime!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25, @05:36AM (2 children)
I get €150/month in cash from my local ATM. Almost all of my payments are made using card. At the end of the month the €150 is down to a low non-zero figure.
I am spending it somewhere....
(Score: 5, Funny) by Gaaark on Saturday April 25, @04:30PM
Hookers and blow, my friend...hookers and blow.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 08, @01:01AM
I usually blow about $600/month in cash. 20's and 100's.
Walmart usually gets the 100's. Restaurants and fueling stations get the 20's. If I hire help, they get cash too. Many do not have bank accounts. They need something to pay their landlord or buy assistance and fuel for their truck.
Like energy conversion, currency/wealth transfer is often terribly inefficient with considerable loss in getting the business hand to shake and their pen to sign. I try to bypass these useless middlemen as much as possible. Cash flow attracts meddlemen ( misspelling deliberate ) permission-givers so much there is often almost nothing left for the guy that earned his pay.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by jb on Saturday April 25, @08:02AM (17 children)
If the purchaser's identity is known to anyone beyond the vendor, then the transaction is not worth entering into.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday April 25, @07:16PM (12 children)
I mean, it depends a lot on the value of that information, right? My local grocery store probably knows how much garlic I go through in a given year. But how much does that information help them (or anyone else for that matter), with anything? Like, OK, now you know I'm not vampire yet, but I'm still not sure how much that helps you. Or you could send me targeted ads, but all that will do is maybe change when I buy garlic versus deciding that what I already have on hand is sufficient.
And there are some transactions where lots of people besides the buyer and seller had better know I made them, e.g. real estate purchases only have value because government is helping me enforce them.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jb on Sunday April 26, @09:18AM (3 children)
Yeah okay I concede your point about real estate, but that's pretty much a red herring. Houses cost at least several hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars each and even I'm not silly enough to carry around that much cash! As an individual (businesses are a different story), a house is probably the only thing you'll ever buy that's too expensive to pay cash for. The next biggest purchase of a lifetime is likely a car; and any car that normal people can afford can be paid for in cash without having to carry around suitcases full of it.
And your example of public disclosure is one thing. But selective disclosure only to a bunch of useless middle men (banks, credit card companies, payment gateway operators, etc.) who absolutely will monetise in any way they can any and all data collected about you, that's a different kettle of fish. They can't do that with public data, because by definition everybody already has access to it.
As for the grocers, yes of course my grocer will know what I bought from him, because he was a party to the transaction. But there's absolutely no reason to let anyone else know anything about that transaction: quite simply it's nobody else's business but mine and the grocer's. Even the Government doesn't need to know (all they need to know is how much GST the grocer collected in aggregate from all customers across the whole month; and various other aggregated financial measures across the whole year for income tax assessment purposes).
Re the garlic, there is an alternative hypothesis: perhaps you are a vampire and are simply buying up and destroying as much garlic as you can, to stop others from getting their hands on it ;).
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Sunday April 26, @06:42PM (2 children)
I agree that they will monetize it in any way they can. However, if the data in question is so worthless that there is no monetary value to it, they can't.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Vocal Minority on Monday April 27, @03:18AM (1 child)
It's the aggregation of large amounts of data that is valuable, not any particular datum. The interactions and patterns are important and it's this that compromises your autonomy if you have poor data hygiene.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday May 07, @11:06AM
I don't want WalMart making it public how much likker or what brand I am using.
They put it out, it sells. They get some more. I have noticed they are extremely good at this.
I have bought them out of oddball products. Within a couple of days, they usually have some more.
Oddball stuff. A particular size and style of boot. A particular size of oil filter. A particular drink mixer. I am quite impressed by their ability to track what things will sell where and move stock around accordingly.
I remember studying stuff like that in a data structures class. Basically, the sales floors are also a distributed warehouse. Any item checked out initiates a sequence to replace it. It amazes me how efficient the stores have become.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Thursday April 30, @12:35PM (6 children)
I would guess garlic purchase is strongly correlated with a number of factors. E.g. in UK
You buy garlic -> you cook for yourself from base ingredients e.g. probably middle class
You buy garlic -> this is a store cupboard ingredient, that implies that you are responsible for the weekly shop. If you are male, that indicates that you are single. The amount of garlic you buy is an indicator of marital status
You buy garlic -> this indicates a mediterranean cooking style, probably you are more aware of international cultures.
I guess you are a pro EU, probably voting for a centre left political stand point, middle to high earnings, single male.
I may be wrong on many inferences. But statistically I am probably right. A professional profiler with full access to your shop will do a way better job.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday April 30, @07:28PM (3 children)
You are wrong on a lot of things.
Certainly not the only ad profiler I've seen get me very wrong indeed, like trying to sell me undergarments and personal hygiene products that don't match my gender or anatomy. I'm happy for them to continue to be wrong about me, and if I can feed them data that confuses them even more, continuing to degrade the value of all this tracking, all the better.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday May 01, @11:02AM (2 children)
> You are wrong on a lot of things.
Sure. And I am "cheating" because I have seen some of your posts here.
But my point was that with even a small data one can start to build a profile. The data asymmetry is scarily powerful.
(Score: 2) by Damp_Cuttlefish on Monday May 11, @11:51AM (1 child)
Haha! You fool! You blundering simpleton!
I cook from base ingredients because my partner has rare and frustrating allergies
I am responsible for the weekly shop, because they are lazier and more entitled than me
I buy unholy amounts of garlic because I am willfully ignorant of all other cooking styles
You are, I concede, mostly correct on all other points.
(Score: 1) by mce on Sunday May 17, @10:03AM
The kind of profiling the other poster mentioned is all about statistics. Of course they get stuff wrong, but that doesn't matter in the big picture. Plus, if they get similar data about a person's consumption of other items, they can refine the profile based on those and correct certain assumptions. Notice how the other poster said "If you are male..." Garlic consumption on its own doesn't confirm or deny gender, but if the same consumer also favors items or activities that statistically do, then a picture still starts to emerge.
Of course statistical errors may lead to you getting advertisements for the wrong gender. Hell, one does not even need statistics for that: I'm male, but I once purchased something "stereotypically female" online for abuse in a DIY project (hey, I'm a geeky tinkering engineer). As I later found out, that website blindly assumed that I was a woman and it still occasionally sends me e-mails addressed to Mrs. X. On the other hand, some 18 years ago, I've also been targeted on my office laptop with ads specifically tuned for my sexuality, despite using that machine only for SFW work related purposes. Somehow, some profiler figured me out from my private laptop use and then sold the data to some other brokers and/or profilers until one of them also happened to have a record linking me to both machines. Possibly because of frequently visiting the same geeky websites both for work and for hobby purposes (did I mention that I'm a geeky tinkering engineer?)
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday May 14, @08:41PM
It's a lot of signals intelligence at that point [forbes.com].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Unixnut on Sunday April 26, @02:47PM (1 child)
Agreed, I basically take out my monthly outgoings in cash right after my paycheck arrives. Apart from paying my rent and internet (which is not feasible with cash) I am 100% cash. Aside from the privacy benefits, I find it much easier to budget.
There is a strong psychological connection when I see my paycheck as a fat wad of cash at the beginning of the month, and as it thins out during the week I seem to intuitively reduce my expenditure , as a result I never go over budget for the month (ignoring any emergencies).
Since doing this I have been able to put aside far more of my paycheck, get out of debt, etc... Back when I was mostly using cards (especially contactless), I would tap away during the month then when the bill came I would wonder where the hell all the money went.
The itemised bill does not help because all I see is lots of medium to small transactions, with names of companies that I don't recognize. Seems companies trading names are different to the ones they use for billing, plus a lot of the transactions are for the payment processor.
So really there is no benefit to using cards. I get less privacy, I get an itemised bill that is useless, and every once in a while they don't work. I see it when I do my grocery shop. Every month or so I end up in a queue because somebodies card transaction won't go through. That tells me that it must happen quite often, as there are multiple queue lanes for paying.
It is also much slower paying with card, especially if you are asked for the pin. With added abstractions with phone/smartwatch payments it can take even longer. I remember last time some dude was all proud showing off his smartwatch and tapped it to pay, but it didn't work. So he got out his phone to fiddle with it, turned Bluetooth off and on again, etc... tried the watch again with no luck. Then he tried by tapping his phone, still no luck, before finally storming off to find an ATM, after which he returned and paid with cash.
Took a good 20 mins, by which time we could have cleared the entire queue 3 times over if we all used cash.
Really the original unique selling point of cards is that they would be faster and more convenient, but they have successfully made the whole experience slower and less convenient. I can't think of any reason not to use cash, apart from those who need to buy on credit.
Also my bank keeps trying to incentivise me to use my debit card more, offering discounts, bonuses, benefits, etc... which tells me there is something they gain from me using the card but I don't exactly know what. Still that is enough to discourage me to use the card even more, as I doubt it would be to my benefit.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jb on Monday April 27, @08:51AM
Couldn't agree more. Yes, that's the other reason why any form of non-cash payment (except cheques, but we're about to lose them here in 3 years) should be avoided like the plague.
There is only one benefit, as far as I can tell. They are more convenient for international transactions. I still have one, solely for when I need to buy something from overseas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 26, @04:11PM (1 child)
... and that is why you do not own a car, or a home. Not that you don't want to, not because you refuse to have your name on such a transaction, but because you can't afford it, because your economic outlook is simply impractical to accumulate any large-ish amount of money.
Ahh. But you have got your principles.
(Score: 3, Touché) by jb on Monday April 27, @08:57AM
Actually I own 3 cars ... and I paid cash for 2 of them.
Home ownership is a different kettle of fish again: around here at least, these days most people can't afford to own a home. There are many causes (it's a complex problem that both sides of politics have tried, unsuccessfully, to solve for many years), but use of cash isn't one of them. If anything, those of us who refuse to use non-cash payment methods for domestic transactions tend to save a greater proportion of our income than those who embrace them do (as another poster pointed out above).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Saturday April 25, @06:40PM (6 children)
With inflation, these two are kind of the same option
Another topic is with structural shifts in the economy I can't go to the mall with a wallet of cash and come home with a haircut, a nice lunch in my belly, clothes, book, software/games. That mall and most of the malls like it are dead, and its hard to pay for Amazon with cash, so ...
When I was a young guy fresh outta school back when the malls were still alive in the 90s I had kind of regular route where I didn't do this every weekend but most saturdays I did some subset of visit Sears Dental and shop while waiting for my appointment then wander over to the food court and eat some kind of mysterious food meal, then put my name on the haircut list at the haircut place and wander over to the bookstore and look for books until around the time I figure I could wander back and get a haircut. Then maybe a quick trip to one of the THREE different software and game stores the mall had or maybe Radio Shack if I was working on a project at home and needed another roll of hookup wire or some solder or a plastic box or whatever. Maybe wander into one of the clothes stores and buy a nice new work shirt or get some shoes. Stop at one of the snack stores and buy some freshly roasted pecans or chocolate somethings or whatever for the road. Then drive home. That entire experience is economically dead now. The housing bubble perked it up until '08 or so but it was well on the way out by Y2K. So I don't need pocket money for a surprise stop at Radio Shack on the way home from work anymore. Partially because I don't have a commute anymore LOL.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday April 26, @02:04AM (2 children)
I generally carry enough for a tank of gas, a meal for four, and a few bucks leftover.
That amount generally stays in my wallet for several months before needing a top-up, if pay-at-the-pump isn't working I'll generally go to another pump or station, while I _could_ pay cash for meals out I generally don't, and then we can talk about groceries - a good 2 week grocery trip can be enough to wipe out all that cash and more at a single shot...
Sometimes I'll shop somewhere sketchy (new Asian market? flea market? head shop... that one is more to avoid a paper trail...) and those are cash transactions - handling cash is a hassle, but in those circumstances I can be assured that they won't use my cash to attempt to buy things for themselves or others under my credit...
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @10:25PM
-.-
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mendax on Tuesday April 28, @10:59PM (7 children)
I carry cash in my wallet because there are times when credit cards or ATM cards don't work. I ran into such a situation a couple years ago when the credit card reader at a motel I had a reservation at failed. I had more than enough cash with me to pay for my room. Cash is useful.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 3, Informative) by anotherblackhat on Wednesday April 29, @07:32PM (6 children)
I'm the reverse - I carry a card because some places can't accept cash.
I try and avoid those places, but frequently they hide the fact that they don't accept cash until there's nothing you can do about it - like when a parking garage holds your car hostage unless you pay with a card.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 29, @09:06PM (5 children)
We ate at a (crowded) restaurant a while back - got to the end of the meal and the waitress came to the table with the checks and said "like I told you when you came in, we don't accept cash..." well, biotch, you did NOT tell us that, and one of the parties here doesn't carry credit around - luckily her bill with tip came to right at $80, so I just paid both checks with my card - easy peasy, but don't go around telling your customers "we told you when you came in" and not tell them when they come in.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 01, @06:15PM
Seems like a good time for malucious compliance. "Well we only have cash."
(Score: 3, Informative) by mcgrew on Monday May 04, @01:13PM (3 children)
That should be illegal. Last time I looked, printed on the bills was "good for all debts, public and private." Perhaps in some countries you can refuse to take money for legal purchases.
There are places here that only take cash, but I've never seen anywhere that refused it.
The Epstein Memorial Golden Presidential Ballroom: Let them eat cake.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday May 04, @01:45PM (1 child)
Yeah, my understanding of "the law" is that acceptance of treasury issued cash, any form of genuine US Treasury issued cash from pennies through thousand dollar bills if you've got 'em, is required.
However, gas station convenience stores and similar have been scofflaw about "no bills larger than $20" since the 80s and before.
Since the pandemic, we've seen an upswing around here of "cash free venues" particularly large stadium events and similar - and now these mob-scene restaurants are pulling the same shit.
But, hey, we elected a convicted felon, and Hollywood has been heavily lionizing outlaw rebels since the 1960s - people are livin' the dream: yeah, it's illegal, but who cares? So, sue me - if you got the balls, punk. /s
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 05, @05:00AM
That is incorrect on two levels. First is that the legal tender rule only applies to debts, not any other type of transaction or contract including quasi-debts. Second is that the legal tender rule does not require the acceptance of currency even for debts. The legal tender rule says that the offer of currency is the act that satisfies the debt (but doesn't excuse performance). This is different from other forms of repayment where they satisfy the debt upon completion of performance. The only side effect you'll ever really see from that is the cancelling of interest upon making a legally recognized offer of currency to a valid debt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04, @02:52PM
Such places do exist, they love their Apple pay crap.
(Score: 2) by anotherblackhat on Wednesday April 29, @07:27PM (4 children)
I carry enough cash to for dinner for two at a fancy restaurant, but not enough to buy a new car.
Usually somewhere between the maximum amount the ATM will let me withdraw and twice that amount.
I don't really think of it as an Unreasonable amount, but it's more than virtually everyone else I know.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 29, @09:09PM (3 children)
Around here our ATM max is $400... which works out to $65 in 1975 money... I used to walk about with $50-100 in the 1970s. The ATM max when ATMs came out in the 1980s was $400, and it hasn't changed since (for my credit union, at least.)
We did buy a car for cash once, called the bank and had them raise our ATM limit, pulled $2500 from one ATM in 7 transactions.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday May 04, @01:09PM (2 children)
In 1975 I was honorably discharged from the USAF, on unemployment before starting college. $65 was s shitload of money to me then, almost a month's rent. You could rent a house for $80. My big on-campus college apartment was $70. Gas was 60¢ a gallon. Cigarettes were 30¢ a pack.
Not all of us were born with a silver spoon, Elon. Even today when I have everything I need and can afford almost anything I want and have about $5k in my checking account (luckily for me I have an EV, my lawn tools are electric and I don't use gasoline), bought a used car for my daughter with a credit card (0% interest, excellent credit) I still almost never withdraw more than $200. Why would I need so much cash?
The Epstein Memorial Golden Presidential Ballroom: Let them eat cake.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday May 04, @01:49PM
> Gas was 60¢ a gallon
And in 1971 it was closer to 30¢ a gallon. Back then, the news told us that major inflationary shocks like that were due to foreigners (like OPEC) abusing us. Now the mask is off - we're clearly initiating these things ourselves.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday May 04, @02:00PM
On another front, $400 was "almost a month's rent" in most of the greater Miami area in the early 1980s. These days those same places rent closer to $1500 per month. Even "affordable" Jacksonville Florida is around $1300 per month.
🌻🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by shrewdsheep on Sunday May 03, @11:04AM (1 child)
Cash is not only convenient sometimes, it is also a safeguard against government control. Cash allows for economic transactions uncontrolled and unmonitored by the government. All cashless means can, in principle, be shut down by the government. I try to pay as much in cash as possible to stimulate the underlying cash infrastructure. I have to admit that self-scanning at the supermarket (with a supermarket provided app) is convenient and time-saving (unlike the self-checkout) and have done this most of the time recently. Still, I want to pay cash from time to time.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday May 04, @12:50PM (2 children)
Credit cards make purchases and keeping track of them much easier, but there are still places that don't take plastic. Here in Springfield, that I have visited:
Felber's
The Lucky Lady Laundry
Ascend cannabis dispensary
Kid that sold weed before 2020 when it was legalized
Kid that mowed my lawn when my lawnmower was broken
Birthday and Christmas cards (the best gift cards have dead presidents on them)
Also one or two more I can't think of off the top of my head, as well as anything you don't want tracked; say, medicine in a drug store for an embarrassing condition.
The Epstein Memorial Golden Presidential Ballroom: Let them eat cake.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 04, @02:03PM (1 child)
>the best gift cards have dead presidents on them
Soon, the BEST passports will too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 10, @05:25PM (1 child)
I try to use cash everywhere so usually not much of it in my wallet. Deny the digital tyranny currently being pushed in every aspect of our lives!
Almost exclusively conservatives and 'centrists' left round these parts. Even the US Gestapo gets a pass as merely un-professional. Sad to see the state of discussions these days. Really expected more of the "free thinkers" to use cash, but convenience is King.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, @04:09PM (23 children)
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=67090&page=1&cid=1442268#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
apparently who you are matters more than what you say
peak whatever, sounds a lot like part of the narcissist's prayer
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, @04:20PM (22 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, @05:45PM (19 children)
That ACs cannot comment everywhere and khallow's personal attack against that AC instead of arguing the ideas needs to be pointed out.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Tuesday May 12, @07:27PM (18 children)
khallow responded to something an AC wrote. I'm not sure why you thought it was abuse.
A personal attack? Which part of that comment is a personal attack? Who is the person?
When all is said and done, to almost everyone else every AC is someone with zero history.
If you don't like the limited posting you could try using an account.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 12, @08:48PM
Sad times. I see where you are allegedly coming from. Since your threshold for personal attacks is arbitrary there is no discussion to be had here. As for accounts, feel free to create one for me and if I get control before another user I will use that account. Otherwise that us merely an attempt to minimize issues as usual.
Gaaark gets it ;^]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @12:21PM (13 children)
Why does the history of a person matter when discussing ideas?
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 17, @01:01PM (7 children)
He wasn't discussing ideas - he was accusing someone of abuse, which wasn't what khallow said.
ACs have no credibility because they haven't established any, and if they are hiding behind anonymity to accuse someone of something they are most certainly cowards. Quite a befitting monika, really.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @03:06PM (6 children)
You are being deliberately obtuse. Khallow dismissed the AC as having no history therefore not being worth listening to. At what point does it become not ok to use someone's history against them, can we dismiss the TDS lefties or conservatives based on such identity politics?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @04:49PM (3 children)
Modded troll. Great double standards.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 17, @04:53PM (2 children)
Moderation is part of this site. Anyone is free to moderate as they see fit. You should use it sometime.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @05:16PM
The moderation is fine, your cowardice and hypocrisy are not. Veiled threats are super great community management, what fresh or rehashed lies do you plan to put forth? Do not trouble yourself, I am done here since you repeat your tough guy persona instead of facing your issues.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday May 17, @04:50PM (1 child)
This is a Poll. It is not your complaint journal. You do not have Zero history - although you might wish that you had.
Take your repeated complaining elsewhere please.
[nostyle RIP 06 May 2025]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 17, @01:02PM (4 children)
Because it is off-topic?
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Thursday May 14, @11:03PM (1 child)
Old enough to remember when credit cards would be randomly denied for reasons. I always carry enough cash to cover what I'll be putting on the card.
Trump's Grave will be the world's most popular open air toilet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, @11:10PM
All the young kids should remember this when the cashiers run the card multiple times before giving up. I had a card for seven years that never ever got approved the first time. Always took at least two tries before going through.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 15, @09:42PM
(Score: 1) by mce on Sunday May 17, @09:23AM
My wallet currently contains 20 EUR in cash (two notes of 10) and has done so since I last paid cash for a haircut 2 weeks ago. The only reason why I paid cash back then, is that I needed a fresh supply of coins for use in the soda machine at work. So, yes, I currently also have 6.85 EUR in coins on me in my pocket. As it turns out, said machine is my main reason for still using cash.
I do, however, permanently maintain exactly 1000 EUR cash in a hidden envelope at home, just in case I need some and have no time to go get it at an ATM - there being no such thing within at least 10 km of my house.