We covered the story about powdered alcohol when it was first announced, but it ran into problems. It was re-announced in mid March. Rachel Abrams reports at the NYT that six states have passed legislation to ban Palcohol, a freeze-dried, powdered alcohol developed by Mark Phillips who he says was inspired by a love of hiking but a distaste for carrying bottles of adult beverages uphill. "When I hike, kayak, backpack or whatever, I like to have a drink when I reach my destination. And carrying liquid alcohol and mixers to make a margarita for instance was totally impractical," says Phillips, who hopes to have Palcohol on store shelves by the summer. One packet of Palcohol equals one shot with each packet weighing 1 ounce and turning into liquid when mixed with 6 ounces of water. Phillips has vigorously defended his product, called Palcohol, saying it is no more dangerous than the liquid version sold in liquor stores and plans to release five flavors: vodka, rum, cosmopolitan, powderita (which is like a margarita) and lemon drop.
Critics are concerned people may try to snort the powder or mix it with alcohol to make it even stronger or spike a drink. "It's very easy to put a couple packets into a glass and have super-concentrated alcohol," says Frank Lovecchio. Amy George, a spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said MADD did not typically take a stand on the dangers of specific alcohol products, but MADD is concerned about the colorful or playful packaging of such products that can sometimes appeal to children. Phillips dismisses concerns saying that they don't make sense if you think it through. "People unfortunately use alcohol irresponsibly. But I don't see any movement to ban liquid alcohol. You don't ban something because a few irresponsible people use it improperly," says Phillips. "They can snort black pepper. Do you ban black pepper?"
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Lehrman Beverage Law and SB Nation have articles on a new powdered alcohol product.
First and for a long time, it was just liquid. Then it was whipped, solidified and almost vaporized. And now alcohol is powderized.
I am not astonished that this is a real product — but I am absolutely astonished that this is approved. Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) approved seven versions of this powdered alcohol within the past few days. The person that pushed this through must be very patient or lucky and/or good. The product seems highly likely to raise a large number of legal issues and controversies.
Back in the 1960's, Jerry Lewis starred in the movie "Way...Way Out" (1966), one of the things that made an impression on a young NASA brat (myself), was the 'instant vodka' the Russians had up in space in the movie. After Tang came out, I wondered when we would see the 'instant vodka'. I'm glad I was not holding my breath in anticipation!
After a false start following the announcement almost a year ago, Palcohol not only has instant vodka, but several other flavors of 'powdered-just mix with water' instant alcoholic beverages. From the article:
Powered alcohol will now be legal in the United States after a federal agency approved the product Palcohol to be sold. [...] The product will be sold in pouches, and water can be added to them in order to create an alcoholic beverage.
The product was approved in April, 2014 by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, who then turned right around and revoked approval due to concerns of abuse, misuse, and ease of concealment and availability to minors.
A bureau spokesman has now confirmed that "the issues were resolved" and "four varieties of Palcohol were approved," including cosmopolitan, margarita, vodka, and rum.
In response to critics concerned about the product being snorted or easier to sneak into venues that ban alcohol consumption, a statement on the Palcohol website says: "We believe that powdered alcohol is actually safer than liquid alcohol." "It's painful to snort due to the alcohol. Second, it's impractical. It takes approximately 60 minutes to snort the equivalent of one shot of vodka," Palcohol founder Mark Phillips said. "Why would anyone do that when they can do a shot of liquid vodka in two seconds?"
Apparently Palcohol is optimistic about starting sales this summer, but they also say they have some issues to work out in some states, regarding regulations to allow this to happen. (Nothing more specific was mentioned.) So now, with a few kilos of Palcohol, and a few kilos of powdered water, yer stocked for the zombie apocalypse. ;-)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by MostCynical on Sunday April 05 2015, @08:57AM
Actually it doesn't.. and there is..proof..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470475/ [nih.gov]
http://www.druglibrary.org/prohibitionresults.htm [druglibrary.org]
So someone will just.. Import it, even illegally.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @09:39PM
Actually it does depending on the circumstances. Usage of otherwise harmless drugs (eg marijuana) is very low in many countries where it's banned. It's incorrect to assume that a few anecdotes within one culture group with a very stale common political climate can prove a general trend.
Source:
https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/WDR2011/World_Drug_Report_2011_ebook.pdf [unodc.org]
(Score: 2) by K_benzoate on Monday April 06 2015, @03:56AM
I think there's a case to be made that it would work here, because traditional liquid alcohol would still be just as available as ever. It's such a close substitute. I can't imagine many people would risk trouble with the law to get the powdered stuff when the liquid variety is still right at the corner store.
Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Subsentient on Sunday April 05 2015, @08:59AM
Well I kinda want to agree that this should not hit mass market shelves. I can see bad things happening from that. I *am* especially worried about kids.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Sunday April 05 2015, @09:22AM
Yes, ban something for the children. That's freedom & Small Government.
Land of the free, home of the brave. So free & brave that we ban something for everyone because... children!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Sunday April 05 2015, @09:28AM
The company notes that snorting it is difficult, painful, and not dangerous. Perhaps it would be dangerous if you consumed a massive slurry of it and the alcohol was released in the stomach.
Millions of kids can get anything from Everclear to meth without much trouble. I say we let Darwinism sort it out.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 06 2015, @07:46AM
The Everclear is a lot more trouble to get than the meth. Only a few unscrupulous adults will buy alcohol for kids, but dope dealers never check ID, and even give away free samples to get people hooked. Illegal substances are significantly easier to get than legal/regulated ones. there is a demand, so it will be filled, the only question is: "Who will be filling it? A licensed merchant with regulated product, or anyone with enough money to buy some weight and cut it with God-knows-what?"
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:37AM
And you know, the FDA and whatnot, it's their JOB to regulate this kind of thing. Do you want the freedom to be intentionally sold E. coli infected food?
How about the freedom to be sold expired, dangerous medication?
If you care that much, then you must agree that it must be legal for any private citizen to own a nuclear weapon, because just because it's dangerous doesn't mean it shouldn't be available to everyone! Right?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:47AM
A weapon of mass destruction is definitely similar to something you can consume.
And you know, the FDA and whatnot, it's their JOB to regulate this kind of thing.
It's not the FDA's job to ban something simply because it could be abused, and any 'abuse' here wouldn't lead to mass destruction, so no more mentioning nuclear bombs. But you seem like you might be a big fan of the war on drugs, so carry on.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Subsentient on Sunday April 05 2015, @11:22AM
Actually, the mass incarceration and minimum sentences is an abomination. I just see kids spiking their orange juice with 5 of these at school lunch and sneaking them in the bottom of their shoe.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anal Pumpernickel on Sunday April 05 2015, @11:43AM
That's their problem, then. No need to ban it for everyone. I'm tired of this attitude, and if you really oppose the drug war, then you should be tired of it too.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Sunday April 05 2015, @11:54AM
Bottom of their shoe? Are these schools or prisons? They could just as easily keep it in a backpack, lunchbox, or premixed into a bottled drink. Or just use vodka instead. Kids get caught with mary jane at school because it is easy to detect. Alcohol, not so much.
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(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Sunday April 05 2015, @01:07PM
What about kids sampling the entire home drug cabinet AND drink cabinet? Not worried about that? It certainly happens a lot more often than kids overdosing on powdered alcohol.
Protip: it's hard to actually kill yourself with alcohol, unless you mix in other drugs. You end up either drunk or vomiting. Neither is terribly harmful for a kid, especially if he is under supervision such as during school hours.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @01:10PM
Also, this powdered alcohol garbage is actually pretty weak even compared to normal alcohol.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 06 2015, @07:49AM
Why would other people's failures as parents be my concern?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by TLA on Sunday April 05 2015, @12:33PM
that's the same FDA that, at the behest of Rumsfeld, approved aspartame for human consumption without peer-reviewed human interaction studies having been carried out and in the face of actual evidence of the harmful effects of the chemical, right?
That's ok then, I thought it would be an organisation that we couldn't trust to act in all our interests rather than worshipping the Mighty Greenback... oh, how wrong was I?
Excuse me, I think I need to reboot my horse. - NCommander
(Score: 2) by nightsky30 on Sunday April 05 2015, @11:29PM
Exactly, they already screwed up. I avoid anything with artificial sweeteners. When it breaks down into formaldehyde and formic acid, no thanks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 06 2015, @07:52AM
The government was bought the instant that enough money was concentrated into the hands of individuals to do just that. Thanks capitalism!
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Sunday April 05 2015, @08:27PM
Do you want the freedom to be intentionally sold E. coli infected food?
Caveat Emptor, I always say! Isn't the truly free market a wonderful thing!
(Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:37AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @02:33PM
Granted, alcohol is a dangerous and addictive drug that has no medical use (not anymore I presume anyway—during the 30s there was medicinal alcohol) and thus should be schedule I imo. Oh wait, liquid alcohol prohibition didn't exactly work out well….
Please help me understand how this is any different from swiping something from grandma's liquor cabinet.
Or for that matter, swiping some of mommy's pain pills.
Personally, I don't think I'd go for powdered whiskey. I can't imagine it wouldn't be like drinking Tang when what you really need is a nice refreshing glass of OJ (pulp included).
I just don't understand how this is fundamentally different from any other scenario where a minor obtains a dangerous and addictive drug.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @02:39PM
Oh, I almost forgot to respond to the black pepper comparison. Same AC here, responding to myself.
They've forgotten all about nutmeg. Granted, it's not a very nice high, and it lasts for way too long (72 hours). However, if these “teenagers” are really determined to get high, doesn't it behoove us to ban nutmeg?
As for the packages being attractive to children… they do card for this stuff, don't they?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday April 05 2015, @09:00AM
Palcohol is the scary new Four LOKO
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(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:02AM
I hate to say anything in defence of 4-loco, but, erm, Irish Coffee? For a laugh last year, I did a pub-crawl (admittedly a short one) where I drank nothing but Irish coffees!
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @09:40AM
Well now Mark Phillips has learned never ever make a joke, because stupid morons will take it literally.
Now suck a sack of nigger cocks, and don't forget to swallow, kiddies.
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:33AM
I doubt anyone here enjoys the same hobbies as you.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 5, Informative) by tynin on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:04AM
I read the whole article but it didn't mention which States are banning it. Went off to search other articles and I'm finding mixxed answers.
http://rt.com/usa/240629-palcohol-approval-riles-lawmakers/ [rt.com]
says Alaska, Colorado, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, South Carolina and Vermont have already banned powdered alcohol or have pending legislation that would do so.
https://ncadd.org/in-the-news/1381-more-states-considering-ban-on-powdered-alcohol [ncadd.org]
says Alaska, Delaware, Louisiana, South Carolina and Vermont already have banned powdered alcohol, also known as "Palcohol." Minnesota, Ohio, New York and Colorado also are considering bans.
That said, I'm looking forward to getting some for hiking purposes. Water already weighs enough, but hiking in a heavy glass bottle ends up getting drank in the first few nights just so you don't have to lug the bottle around.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:17AM
Do you always use products exactly as advertised? Do you read the label and serve only the amount listed as one serving? Would you snort if the marketing material suggested you could snort it?
(Score: 2) by tynin on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:27AM
Do you routinely non sequitur?
(Score: 1) by basicbasicbasic on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:50AM
You already don't have to carry heavy glass bottles, though - you can decant the liquid in to a plastic bottle. That goes for foods in glass jars, too. And things like cereals can go in a sandwich bag / ziplock bag to save space.
And I don't know why he says carrying liquid alcohol and mixers is "totally impractical". What is difficult about carrying two liquids and then mixing them? I do it with vodka & lemon cordial. If you know there's going to be fresh water where you're going it saves kilograms over carrying beer or cider. Or just take a hip flask of whiskey.
(Score: 3, Informative) by tynin on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:55AM
True. However the reduction in water weight alone would be worth it. 1oz of powder saves you from carrying 6oz of liquids. Bring a water filter with you and you are set.
(Score: 1) by basicbasicbasic on Sunday April 05 2015, @10:59AM
Or you could carry 1g of a different powder that would weigh even less, get you even higher, and wouldn't require water.
(Score: 2) by tynin on Sunday April 05 2015, @11:03AM
Ha! I like the cut of your jib!
(Score: 1) by yarp on Sunday April 05 2015, @11:48AM
You mean black pepper, right?
(Score: 3, Informative) by mhajicek on Sunday April 05 2015, @04:12PM
Nutmeg.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday April 06 2015, @01:57AM
One oz of powder or one oz of 150 proof rum or vodka? Sounds about the same to me. A good stainless steel hip flask is not expensive and is light in weight. Assuming one is hiking and camping, a single shot after hiking most of the day and then setting camp is plenty for a buzz.
The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 06 2015, @04:48PM
Unless of course one is hiking in the desert. Then you'd better have some powdered water.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday April 05 2015, @02:04PM
FFS go buy yourself a bota bag and be happy.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Marneus68 on Sunday April 05 2015, @12:23PM
Ban the guns, legalize pot, prevent the sale of powdered alchool and don't do anything about oral suction circumcision. Because children. Or something.
You guys look inconsistent as hell from the outside, then again, which country doesn't.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @12:34PM
Do you remember when France outlawed encryption and SSH was illegal? Those were the days.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Sunday April 05 2015, @12:47PM
You must be a foreigner if you think there is a trend towards banning guns in the U.S. Pot legalization isn't exactly moving at a breakneck pace, and the drug war is still in full effect. Palcohol banning is scaremongering over a product with little or no market (yet).
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 06 2015, @01:02AM
If this was on the shelf, I would probably buy it. Also, I would mix it in beer ("misusing it"). I would consider it to be a bachelor party and date-rape staple.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday April 06 2015, @04:48AM
News flash: people can easily tell when the ABV of their beverage has skyrocketed by 10%, and drinking it doesn't make them that much easier to rape.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 06 2015, @08:00AM
Alcohol is the #1 date rape drug. Getting girls drunk absolutely makes them easier to rape. There's also the fact that, legally, if you've ever had sex with a drunk chick, you're a rapist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @03:11PM
Guns won't be banned. That's just a political gibbering point that happens occasionally in response to an isolated incident involving white people shooting each other. Note that no one considers banning guns if the people involved aren't white. It's a proxy or code for how white Democrats talk about white Republicans and increase their fear of white Republicans, to prevent any sort of cross-party discourse.
Pot? Legalize? Only in a couple of stoner states. The rest of the world, that is the US, is heavily invested in the drug trade and the drug-trade-busting-trade. There's too much money involved not to have prohibition.
Oral suction circumcision? Most males in the US are circumcised, but only a tiny fraction are Jewish, and only a fraction of those have any oral contact involved, since most US Jews are not bonkers orthodox. The general attitude is that the Jews can give each other herpes via oral suction if they want, because it doesn't really affect the rest of us, and they can clean up their own practices if they want to, but we're not spending time in the legislature to deal with Jewish-only problems.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @12:55PM
If you're gonna carry that powder with you to not carry bottles of alcohol you still have to carry just as many bottles of water... and the powder. Unless you're gonna use some water you find out in the wild and hope for the best.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Sunday April 05 2015, @04:18PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=camping-filters [google.com]
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday April 05 2015, @05:39PM
This is what didn't make sense about his story to me to. If he didn't want to drag liquids with him. I can understand it from a hiking point of view, you don't want to carry anything you don't have to. But what is he going to mix the powder with? Stream water? Is he going to boil unclean water let it cool and then put in his freeze-dried margarita mix? If he is going to carry the water he might as well just carry a bottle of whatever booze he wants to.
The snorting problems is probably less of an issue. I guess it's the mixing part they might have issue with. But then people already do that with regular alcohol in various ways such as jello-shots etc so that shouldn't really be something to hold against his product. If I wanted stronger booze, sure just add more alcohol or heat it to get rid of excess water and by that make it stronger. The thing most people will find out that is that really strong alcohol taste awful and there is just no way to hide that taste, plus its not going to be cheap at all. If one of his freeze-dried bags of booze was a replacement for one shot of something then you are going to have to mix a lot of those little bags to get buzzed.
Also 'freeze-dried cosmopolitans' and various other cocktails, is that for the outdoorsy-metro-sexual or what?
(Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday April 05 2015, @08:36PM
I reckon if you were camping, powdered toast would be more useful.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 05 2015, @09:49PM
Critics are concerned people may try to snort the powder or mix it with alcohol to make it even stronger or spike a drink.
So is the pure sanitary ethanol you can buy in every drug store.
MADD is concerned about the colorful or playful packaging of such products that can sometimes appeal to children
Then keep it away from your children like a responsible goddamn parent. News flash: many typical household items could look like toys to a young mind.