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posted by martyb on Saturday April 18 2015, @06:48PM   Printer-friendly
from the ongoing-saga dept.

The US Department of Education reports

The U.S. Department of Education took additional steps [April 14] to protect students and taxpayers and crack down on abuses within the for-profit sector by continuing its enforcement actions against Corinthian Colleges Inc. After a comprehensive review, the U.S. Department of Education has confirmed cases of misrepresentation of job placement rates to current and prospective students in Corinthian's Heald College system. The Department found 947 misstated placement rates and informed the company it is being fined about $30 million.

Specifically, the Department has determined that Heald College's inaccurate or incomplete disclosures were misleading to students; that they overstated the employment prospects of graduates of Heald's programs; and that current and prospective students of Heald could have relied upon that information as they were choosing whether to attend the school. Heald College provided the Department and its accreditors this inaccurate information as well.

The Department has also notified Corinthian it intends to deny Corinthian's pending applications to continue to participate in the Title IV federal student aid programs at its Heald Salinas and Stockton locations. Corinthian has 14 days to respond to the Department's notice, after which the Department will issue its final decision. Moreover, the Department has determined that Heald College is no longer allowed to enroll students and must prepare to help its current students either complete their education or continue it elsewhere.

The "Corinthian 15" debt strikers of February became the Corinthian 100 in late March with students refusing to pay back loans made under fraudulent conditions. Nine states' attorneys general agree that the bad loans should be forgiven.

Cable News Network notes

"Corinthian took advantage of students who were trying to build a better life for themselves and their families" said Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey.

[...]Tuition and fees for some of its programs cost more than five times those at other public colleges, according to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau]. A bachelor's degree cost up to $75,000 and an associate's was as much as $43,000.

Corinthian was so expensive that many students needed to take out both federal loans and private loans to cover the cost. The college offered its own private loans, which came with interest rates sometimes twice as high as federal loans.

Related:
Federal Crackdown On For-Profit Colleges Claims Its First Victory
Update: Corinthian Colleges Will Sell Half its Campuses to Nonprofit Loan Servicer

Related Stories

Federal Crackdown On For-Profit Colleges Claims Its First Victory 19 comments

Corinthian Colleges, with about 75,000 students in the US and Canada as well as online classes, owns 3 for-profit higher education brands: Everest College, Heald College, and WyoTech schools.
Corinthian receives $1.4B a year from federal education financing programs ($4 out of every $5 of its income).
Late last week, the company appeared headed for permanent closure, but an agreement reached Monday with DoE will allow it to stay in business with Federal oversight.

The US Department of Education has limited its access to federal funds after it failed to provide documents and other information to the agency.
That follows allegations that the company altered grades, student attendance records and falsified job-placement data used in advertisements for its schools.
[...]
The Education Department said that it heightened its oversight of the company after requesting data "multiple times" over the past five months

The company, based in Santa Ana, California, has previously been sued by California Attorney General Kamala Harris

for marketing fraud, arguing that the company mislead prospective students about how its graduates fared in the job market.

Worse, Everest officials paid nearby companies to hire their graduates for just long enough to make the school's statistics look better, then let them go. One Everest campus in Georgia paid companies $2,000 a head to keep Everest graduates on staff for 30 days.
[...]
the company will reportedly get the bridge funding it needs long enough to act on several DOE requests, including closing some of its schools and bringing in an independent auditor for its remaining operations. The DOE is weighing whether or not to reauthorize several Corinthian-owned schools for participation in the federal financial aid system, according to the Associated Press. The company will attempt to sell off significant parts of its 107-campus network.

Update: Corinthian Colleges Will Sell Half its Campuses to Nonprofit Loan Servicer 5 comments

Under close scrutiny from the US Department of Education for fraudulent and conspiratorial practices, the for-profit chain of career colleges, previously valued at $3.4B, has sold 56 of its 107 properties for $24M.

Inside Higher Ed reports

The ECMC Group [(Educational Credit Management Corporation)], a nonprofit organization that runs one of the largest studSent-loan guaranty agencies, announced [November 20] that it will purchase 56 campuses from Corinthian Colleges, a crumbling, controversial for-profit chain.

ECMC will create a nonprofit subsidiary, called the Zenith Education Group, to run the campuses, which enroll more than 39,000 students. The sale price is $24 million, according to a corporate filing from Corinthian. After having absorbed more than half of Corinthian's enrollment and assets, Zenith will operate the nation's largest chain of nonprofit career-oriented campuses.

Corinthian's Everest, Heald, and Wyotech chains include 107 campuses, which in July enrolled 72,000 students and employed 12,000. The company has been attempting to sell 85 U.S. and 10 Canadian locations while gradually closing 12 campuses.

Corinthian has also run afoul of Nasdaq rules again.

Related:
Federal Crackdown On For-Profit Colleges Claims Its First Victory

The End: Corinthian Colleges Shutters Remaining 28 Campuses 29 comments

Common Dreams reports

Corinthian Colleges, the for-profit education system that has come under fire for its predatory student loan schemes, said [April 26] it would shut down all of its 28 remaining campuses, roughly two weeks after the U.S. Department of Education announced it would fine the institution $30 million for misrepresentation regarding job placement rates.

[...]At its peak, the California-based company ran more than 120 colleges across the country with more than 110,000 students.

This final shutdown will displace about 16,000 students.

[...]Students whose campuses are closing may be eligible for closed-school loan discharges, [said Education Undersecretary Ted Mitchell]. "We will do everything we can to ensure that Corinthian makes good on its obligations to students and taxpayers to the extent possible. In addition, we encourage Corinthian students to pursue debt relief with their state".

However, some say that the Department of Education has yet to come through on those promises. As the National Consumer Law Center (NCLC) pointed out in February, the government gave funds to keep Corinthian afloat before it filed for bankruptcy, but gave no such help to the tens of thousands of students who were left without a degree and saddled with debt.

"There's widespread evidence they've engaged in years and years of deceiving students and taxpayers," NCLC attorney Robyn Smith told the Boston Globe at the time. "We're not seeing any relief for the students who've suffered the consequences."

Previous coverage on SoylentNews:
Update: Corinthian Colleges Fined $30M for Fraud

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @06:59PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @06:59PM (#172522)

    Come on. It's called CNN these days. So call it that.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:01PM (#172525)

    So why do you hate private colleges, gewg_? Is it because they tend not to promote the socialist and communist views that are so rampant at public institutions? If these private institutions aren't pushing the leftist views that you hold dear, then they're a "menace" to society?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:16PM (#172533)

      "leftist" "socialist" "communist"

      Want to know how I know you've bought into the two party left-vs-right scam like a gullible moron?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:18PM (#172534)

        Do you have a better term to use for him and his ilk? You know, for people with his type of beliefs? If you've got a better term, let's hear it.

        I don't really give a fuck what term is used. I'm using ones that people are familiar with.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @09:33PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @09:33PM (#172590) Journal

          I see, so the right-wing view is that victims of fraud should be stuck with the student loans they would never had but for the fraud. In a sanity match between you and gewg_, you are the ant and he is the guy with size 13EEEE shoes.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:33PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:33PM (#172615)

            gewg_ has elephantiasis of the feet?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:39PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:39PM (#172637)

            This page is what happens when he decides to use them.
            Lots of empty-headed spew.

            When the daily limit for ACs went up from 10, that gave us mixed results.
            Luckily, the number of mod points given out has gone up too.

            -- gewg_

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @02:01AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @02:01AM (#172675)

              It didn't take you long to start proposing censorship. But I suppose that's what we should expect from somebody with leftist/socialist/communist tendencies. The idea of somebody having an opinion that differs from yours is apparently too much for you to handle. The mere thought of somebody expressing these ideas apparently pushes you over the edge. Instead of admitting to the fact that you're wrong, you just resort to tyranny and oppression instead. Typical.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @02:14AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @02:14AM (#172679)

                So, you think that your opinions are sacrosanct and the judgment of your peers is something to be scorned.
                Typical.

                -- gewg_

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @02:33AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @02:33AM (#172687)

                  See, the fact is that I'm correct, and you are wrong. But even given that state of affairs, I don't want to take away your ability to express your fallacies. Please, be my guest, and spew forth your bullshit without end. I'm not a tyrant like you are. I don't want to oppress people such as yourself who happen to have opinions that are wrong.

                  • (Score: 1) by monster on Tuesday April 21 2015, @04:03PM

                    by monster (1260) on Tuesday April 21 2015, @04:03PM (#173568) Journal

                    See, the fact is that I'm correct, and you are wrong.

                    Citation needed.

                    Also, your lumping together of leftist/socialist/communist just shows how little you know about those. It's like lumping together football, Nascar racing and chess because all three are called sports.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:42PM (#172547)

      get a room

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:18PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:18PM (#172567)

      If these private institutions aren't pushing the leftist views that you hold dear, then they're a "menace" to society?

      Finally! An honest capitalist willing to step up and say that fraud is the only thing saving us from a commie nightmare!

      So why do you hate private colleges, gewg_?

      Corinthian is not a "private" college. That would be schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and so forth. Corinthian is a for-profit school, like Phoenix, and Regent, and Joe's Garage and Law School. Adult Swim had an amazing informercial by on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLdhVpLBVE [youtube.com] For-Profit Online University.

      Not gewg_47

    • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:20PM

      by wonkey_monkey (279) on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:20PM (#172569) Homepage

      Maybe he just hates the ones that defraud their students.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:31PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:31PM (#172572)

      so rampant

      For those who clearly never attended college and have no idea what goes on on campuses:
      Since the 1950s when Milton Friedman invented the word "Neoliberal", no economic system other than Capitalism has been taught at the vast majority of USAian colleges.

      Indeed, many students have complained about the non-availability of a course in Comparative Economics.
      College Economics Courses Are Just Cheerleading Sessions For Capitalism -- The International Student Initiative for Pluralism in Economics [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [isipe.net]

      .
      ...and when exactly did lying, cheating, and stealing become a legit business model?

      -- gewg_

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:40PM (#172577)

        ...and when exactly did lying, cheating, and stealing become a legit business model?

        It's worked well for the mob, and the government, for a long long time.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:21PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:21PM (#172607)

        Being a dumbass buyer and crying for people to bail you out after you repeatedly make bad purchases only came into vogue after the rise of communism and socialism. Both of those ideologies promote irresponsibility.

      • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:43PM

        by captain normal (2205) on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:43PM (#172639)

        "...and when exactly did lying, cheating, and stealing become a legit business model?"
        I'd say about the time somebody invented "Capitalism".

        --
        "If men were angels, government would not be necessary." James Madison
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @01:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @01:58PM (#172822)

      That University of Phoenix degree just keeps your phone buzzing with six figure job offers, doesn't it?

  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:06PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:06PM (#172527)

    I can't feel sorry for the victims in this case. Seriously, did they not think about this? If the cost is so prohibitive, then maybe it's not something they should be spending their (or other people's) money on. They should know that they won't "get ahead" by putting themselves so deep into debt, and if they don't know that then maybe there's just no hope for these people. If you aren't intelligent enough to know that overpaying for an inferior or suspect education is a bad idea, then maybe you aren't smart enough to get an education in general.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:33PM

      by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:33PM (#172540)

      I disagree with this view because the prey that these for-profit colleges go after are exactly the people who know little about education and want to better their lives. I've looked some at the high-pressure sales tactics that these colleges use. They remind me of television evangelists and rent-to-own companies, and all of them prey upon the same people. The difference is education is sold as a way to improve your life. It's a message that society as a whole sends to everyone. More education is better. But the people who are preyed on by these colleges aren't in a position to figure out the quality of education. I am the last person who has a lot of sympathy for the victims, but in this case I think it's justified.

      --
      (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:38PM (#172544)

        The act of obtaining an education inherently requires intelligence. The basic level of intelligence needed to get an education in the first place should be more than enough to allow somebody to see when a bad deal is involved. The fact that they have to go to multiple lenders should be a sign that something is not right. So I don't see how we can call them victims. They voluntarily got involved with this. It's not a case of real victimization, where the person involved didn't have a choice. These people did have a choice, and just happened to choose the worst option they could. Making a bad choice doesn't make you a victim.

        • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:01PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:01PM (#172596)

          You're pretty excellent at being smug. The fact is, since the mid-90s we've decimated the economy for jobs that don't require higher education. Back in the early 90s when I was finishing college and through the middle 90s when I went to law school, I was smug like you, deriding all the stupid people. You know what I've learned? I was an asshole back then.

          People have a range of skills and that doesn't make them better or worse people. People make mistakes -- smart and dumb alike -- and then try to overcome them. One mistake shouldn't mean the end of your opportunity, we should encourage people to overcome their mistakes. So here, in the context of a political and social environment that relentlessly pushes higher education, coupled with clearly fraudulent behavior that a lowly student applicant is almost certainly not going to unravel, the people who deserve punishment are the fraudsters, not those who have been defrauded.

          Anyway, if you aren't able to be compassionate and insist on being an inveterate asshole, at least engage in some enlightened self-interest because shitting on all the merely average or below average people means that there is a huge population who if they get angry enough at the injustice, just might pull out the pitchforks and torches.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:15PM

          by bzipitidoo (4388) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:15PM (#172603) Journal

          Intelligence helps but is not enough to detect fraud. Many young people can be very intelligent and at the same time very naive and inexperienced with predation, having been thoroughly sheltered by zealous parents. To detect fraud, you must also have knowledge, which requires education. And even then, you will still end up in situations where you cannot tell if the other party of a deal is honest and will keep their side of a bargain and has not misrepresented the situation or their abilities. Often the only choices are to trust them, or not, and if the decision is to trust because they seem so trustworthy or because their services are so badly needed that the lesser risk is that they aren't honest, someone has to go first to find out if they really are trustworthy. It is especially galling to have such a brave person be slandered as a chump and a dupe by the likes of you, in those cases where thanks to our adventurous soul, we all learn that the other was not trustworthy. You owe them thanks for uncovering a cheat, not scorn for being a trusting fool.

          The "burned hand" method of education, which you sound like you prefer, makes everyone paranoid, hurts us all. If no one can trust anyone else, society collapses. If we can redress a situation, we should, and we often can. We don't intentionally make roads even more dangerous than they already are and then blame the drivers for whatever accidents and injuries they sustain, no. That used to be the attitude, before seat belts. But after too many needless tragedies that could have been prevented with such a simple thing as a seat belt, we got smarter. So why should we let known liars and cheats continue to do business and defraud new victims? To teach the victims a lesson by driving them into bankruptcy and ruining their lives? Harsh. Just as a fender bender should not result in serious injury or even death, neither should a fraud leave a person completely destitute, homeless and forced to panhandle for food while being mocked by smug jerks for being "stupid". Student loans are too harsh, because unlike _all_ other forms of debt, they were granted the supremely special status of not being forgivable through bankruptcy.

      • (Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:44PM

        by Dunbal (3515) on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:44PM (#172550)

        the prey that these for-profit colleges go after are exactly the people who know little about education and want to better their lives.

        No, they go after the credit of financially irresponsible people. All of these for-profit "institutions" are fuelled by the abundance of student loans available to anyone willing to mortgage their future. Education is merely the excuse. But hey, you don't need a fancy degree to know that a fool and his money are soon parted.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:38PM (#172575)

      Perhaps they chose these schools because of the high placement rates and employment opportunities these schools fraudulently misrepresented? They were flat out lied to and swindled. These students were trying to get a shot at employment in a country that has offshored millions of jobs, and is bringing in H1B competition that will work for half the salary.

      If these schools had advertised "half the education, with shitty placement & success rates, at only twice the price of our competition" I'm willing to bet that they would have been out of business already (you know, they way the free market is supposed to work).

  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:14PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:14PM (#172531)

    So because these people voluntarily made a bad investment, it's considered okay for them to walk away from the obligations they racked up with others?

    I think that's wrong. They shouldn't be "bailed out", so to speak, because of their bad decisions. If it was wrong to bail out bankers because of their bad investment decisions, then it should be wrong to bail out individuals who make bad investment decisions, too.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:25PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:25PM (#172537)

      On the other hand, we *did* bail out the bankers... why would we bail out the bankers and not these people?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:33PM (#172541)

        Mistakes do get made. It was a mistake that that happened. That's why we shouldn't make the same mistake again. If these people are bailed out, then somebody who decides to invest his money by shoving it up his ass, shitting it into the toilet and flushing it away should be compensated. Of course, that would be a stupid thing to do. It's better to stop this idiocy now, even if one mistake has already happened, than it is to perpetuate it by encouraging others to make their own mistakes.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:48PM (#172551)

          Here's a suggestion: what if we take all the money we gave the bankers back and gave it to these people who were preyed upon?

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:53PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:53PM (#172556)

            Why the fuck would we do that? So they can waste it getting another shitty, useless education from another sketchy institution?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:57PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:57PM (#172560)

              At least, that way the money would return back into the economy instead of the pockets of the 0.01%

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:45PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:45PM (#172620)

            You're onto something there.
            USA.gov could fund education for less than half of what is current being pissed away on this--with identical results.
            Just cut out the unnecessary middlemen.

            In fact, How The Government Could Make Public College Free For All Students[1] [googleusercontent.com] (orig[1]) [popularresistance.org]

            [1] Recommended AdBlock filter to add before clicking the link: ##div.widget
            Caveat: The idiot who made Blogspot's page boilerplate made the brilliant choice of using "widget" where he should have used "main-content", so this is not a permanent fix for all things.

            -- gewg_

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:47PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:47PM (#172621)

              Every other attempt at socialism or communism has failed miserably. Why the fuck do you honestly think that applying those failed ideologies to higher education would be any different?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:14PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:14PM (#172628)

                I've posted on this topic several times before.
                Become less ignorant. [google.com]

                -- gewg_

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:17PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:17PM (#172629)

                  I don't get what you're trying to accomplish here. Why are you linking to a Google Image search for "pierced scrotum"? What do pictures of scrotal piercings have to do with the many flaws of your beloved leftist crackpot ideas?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:05PM

        by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:05PM (#172598) Journal

        Banksters: committed fraud.
        Students: victims of fraud.

        We should not bail out people who engage in fraud, and we should bail out fraud victims.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:24PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:24PM (#172609)

          The students aren't victims.

          Nobody forced them to register at such schools.

          Nobody forced them to take out large loans to pay for this schooling.

          The students participated in this voluntarily.

          You can only become a victim involuntarily.

          You can't become a victim when you participate voluntarily in something that brings you harm.

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:31PM

            by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:31PM (#172614) Journal

            God, you are stupid. Fraud doesn't have to with "force" as in hold a gun to your head. Fraud means you induce an action a person would otherwise not take, by lying to or misleading that person. This takes the ability to make a choice out of the hands of the victim's hands.

            If you can't understand that, YOU need some remedial education, hopefully at a school that isn't going to cheat you.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:40PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:40PM (#172617)

              The students may have been willing participants in somebody else's fradulent scheme.

              I'm not disputing that.

              But they were not victims.

              They voluntarily chose to attend these schools, perhaps based on incomplete information.

              They voluntarily chose to pay large amounts of money to these schools they chose to voluntarily attend.

              They voluntarily chose to take out large loans in order to acquire the large amounts of money they voluntarily gave to these schools.

              Nobody forced the students to do anything.

              The students acted out of their own free will.

              One cannot be a victim when one engages in something voluntarily, even if that something turns out to be harmful.

              The students were not victims.

            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:49PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:49PM (#172622)

              You are a very negative person. All I'm seeing out of you is stuff like "You are a total retard." or "God, you are stupid." Maybe you need to find some source of happiness in your life.

              • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:37PM

                by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @11:37PM (#172636) Journal

                There's plenty, but there are also annoyances. Like people incapable of discerning the difference between a choice made through irresponsibility, and one induced by fraud (if what the fraudster said was true, the choice would have been a responsible choice). And this AC here who is laissez-faire-buyer-beware to the most extreme extent possible, is just a prolific idiot. No sense beating about the bush.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:35PM

      by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:35PM (#172543)

      The idea is that the people who made the bad investment did it after being deceived as to the value of the product being offered. If you buy a diamond and get a granite pebble, you've been defrauded and normally the law tends to go after whoever does the defrauding so they won't keep doing it. The kind of people who were victimized by these colleges aren't in a position to evaluate how good the product is, because they know little about education other than society as a whole sends the message that more education is the key to a better life.

      --
      (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:40PM (#172545)

        If you can't evaluate a product or service that you're considering buying, especially one costing tens of thousands of dollars, then it should be obvious that you shouldn't be spending your money on this product or service.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:50PM (#172554)

          You're trying to evaluate the education you need in order to make the determination of whether or not the education you're about to purchase is worth it...
          Your logic makes as much sense as: I need this job to gain experience which I need to apply for this job.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:56PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:56PM (#172559)

            No, it's different. In order to consume an education, one needs to already have some intellectual abilities. These abilities will exist prior to receiving any education. The education just enhances what's already there. The basic level of intellectual ability needed prior to pursuing an education should render one able to determine if an opportunity is obviously bad. If these people lack this basic raw intellect, then any education, regardless of how or where they receive it, will be a waste.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:36PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:36PM (#172574)

              In order to consume an education

              You don't "consume" an education anymore than you "consume" data. This is some terrifying corporate propaganda right here.

              • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:48PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @08:48PM (#172579)

                If you've learned something from this thread then you owe us $14,329.87. We'll email your certificate to the same address registered to your PayPal account. Don't forget to apply for our "Thread Master's Program" where we offer mod points and a starting karma position of 10 points (12 points if you get your loan through our DIY Debt program course offering). Learn from your mistakes, at Corinthian!

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:13PM

              by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:13PM (#172602) Journal

              Smart people do stupid shit all the time as soon as they get out of the area in which they have knowledge or skill. This why people look for accreditation when choosing a school, or board certification when choosing a neurologist, or any such certification in any area, because no matter how brilliant a person is, that person can't know everything in the world. We use these certifications as a guideline and rationally so, otherwise we could never do anything at all because our time would be so wholly wasted. Corinthian committed fraud in obtaining accreditation and so it is Corinthian which is the bad actor here. All of those loans should be taken out of Corinthian's hide because it was the fraudster, and but for that fraud, those loans wouldn't have been made.

              Anyway, feels like a Corinthian executive wants to use SN to bitch about being busted. Tough shit buddy.

          • (Score: 2) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Sunday April 19 2015, @10:46AM

            by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Sunday April 19 2015, @10:46AM (#172792)

            My point was about experience - people who go to for-profit colleges have no real-world experience with education alternatives and don't have the background to evaluate how good or bad the educational product offered actually is.

            --
            (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:49PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @07:49PM (#172553)

        I've been behind these people at the grocery store, waiting while they're paying for their groceries with welfare chits.

        They always have the latest iPhone, or maybe one revision back at worst.

        They're chattering away on their iPhones, talking about how they saw on Facebook that one of their "baby daddies" was "cheating" on them.

        They clearly have Internet access if they can access Facebook.

        So if they can access Facebook, they can access Google.

        If they can access Google, they can search for information about these private colleges before forking over big wads of cash.

        But they don't do this.

        They aren't victims.

        They just don't use their brains.

      • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Sunday April 19 2015, @12:31AM

        by Whoever (4524) on Sunday April 19 2015, @12:31AM (#172664) Journal

        Payday loans offer spectacularly bad deals to borrowers. Many borrowers become trapped in a cycle of debt because of the punitive terms for those who are unable to repay the debt in time. Yet the people who borrow are often desperate, and the alternative is loan sharks.

        Should such loans be legal, or not?

        • (Score: 1) by anubi on Sunday April 19 2015, @01:58AM

          by anubi (2828) on Sunday April 19 2015, @01:58AM (#172674) Journal

          I shudder at disgust every time I pass one of those merchants of misery.

          One even has a logo that at first glance, looks like a crown... but when you look closer, its a pair of handcuffs.

          And they ain't cheap either!!! ( 1 page .pdf ) [paydaymoneycenters.com]

          I really feel for anyone forced to visit these places, and because these places exist, people are often forced to use them.

          I guess I am trying to say is one should not buy something they can't pay for, and people who have something to sell should not sell to people who can't afford to buy it. We already have way too much price inflation because sellers know the buyers can be led to patronize financial institutions for a quick cash settlement that will meet the seller's asking price. Nowhere is this more glaringly obvious than house prices. We have all this price inflation because people are so willing to mortgage their futures for today's handshake and sign-off. Without all this extra liquidity injected into the economy as debt, buyers would have to exert restraint on purchases, as well as sellers also have to exert restraint on asking prices.

          The bankers are making a mint out of all this misery. They never had the money to loan in the first place. They just created a note, and now expect real usury on funds they simply penned into existence. I, for one, am really fed up with our Government's cozying up to these people, giving them charter to counterfeit our currency system for profit.

          --
          "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @05:04AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @05:04AM (#172727)

            > I shudder at disgust every time I pass one of those merchants of misery.

            There is more to it than that.
            These articles were written by a professor studying urban poverty who actually went and worked as a teller on a weekly basis and at a non-profit predatory loan help hotline in order to get direct personal experience of how it works in real life:

            http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-high-cost-for-the-poor-of-using-a-bank [newyorker.com]
            http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-good-are-payday-loans [newyorker.com]

            I think the prevalence of payday loan places is an indictment of how credit unions have failed to fill the gap -- they talk about community, but too many of them are operated like banks, nickle-and-diming people who aren't 'profitable' when they should be helping them out. Its one of the reasons I opened an account at a community bank the last time I moved -- all of the local CUs were behaving like banks so I figured I would skip the pretense.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by anubi on Sunday April 19 2015, @06:38AM

              by anubi (2828) on Sunday April 19 2015, @06:38AM (#172744) Journal

              Interesting links...

              I wonder if the "payday loan" companies did not exist, then if the landlord hikes the rent, he has to make evictions because the people can't go into debt to pay the hike. Is not even the availability of selling oneself into debt the cause of us doing it, simply because others can economically force the issue?

              I keep seeing prices spiraling higher and higher, despite mass outsourcing of employment. For now, it seems like people are willingly going into debt so as to meet the seller's price. I, for one, would love to see this end-around-carry by going into debt stop, and when sellers hike price, sales stop. The buyers are the ones who set the price anyway, and if they are kept from bidding the prices up, this will stop. In addition, it will put pressure on lawmakers to not exact tax from the lowest segments of the economy, as those are the ones actually spending 100% of what they get to local businessmen. Every dollar taken from a minimum wage worker is a dollar taken from the till of a merchant. Once the merchants begin lobbying Congress, we will see Congress having to do some serious reform.

              We can only live on debt for so long, then there is no longer money to pay for interest, and the thing folds back in on itself. Its a really nasty little illusion of wealth.

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 2) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Sunday April 19 2015, @10:48AM

          by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Sunday April 19 2015, @10:48AM (#172795)

          The existence of usurious loans in society points to other problems. You can ask many such questions. Why does a society like ours have government-sponsored gambling? Why can a drug company profit from the misery and poverty of sick people for twenty years, and finally have to give up their patent on a drug, then make a minor change that stops the drug from becoming generic? And so on. Why do we, as a society, consider preying on the weak and vulnerable to be acceptable?

          --
          (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:04PM

      by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:04PM (#172597) Journal

      You clearly don't comprehend fraud.

      If they had been told "this education is 2x most other schools, and you have a 10% chance of getting a job in your chosen field on graduation" -- then yeah, I could buy the idea that the students made a bad choice. That didn't happen here -- the students were induced to make what appeared to be a rational decision by Corinthian's fraud. That's a totally different situation.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:08PM (#172599)

        If the student believed those claims without verifying them independently, and then voluntarily paid the school a huge sum of money, then it was the student who fucked up. The student fucked up first by not verifying the claims, and once again by paying out a large sum of money without having verified the claims.

        • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:27PM

          by hemocyanin (186) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:27PM (#172611) Journal

          You are a total retard, or a Corinthian exec.

          Seriously, I'm not trolling. Your position is that all people should have the absolute ability to accurately evaluate everything in the world: cars, airplanes, schools, medical diagnoses, GPG source code, whether a piece of lettuce has e. coli on it or not, etc. etc.

          Back when our technology consisted of broken rocks, it might have been possible for a person to be a total expert on all human knowledge. But we've moved on and that means that you have to trust accreditations, certifications, standard/testing agencies, and so forth because there is no fucking way that in one lifetime, you could personally evaluate everything you buy -- you'd have every piece of food you eat under a microscope so before you even make it outside, you've probably spent half your day just looking at your food to make sure it is safe from surface contaminants. Anyway, you can take your moronic buyer beware attitude back to the stone age where that might have been possible, and let the rational people realize that the much more economic and utilitarian answer to fraud, is not to tell people they should learn to be experts on everything and suck it up if they fail, but is to punish the fraudulent fuckers when they get caught.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:42PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:42PM (#172618)

            No, I'm not affiliated with any college. I just support the notion that irresponsible people who make really fucking dumb decisions should have to face the consequences of those dumb decisions.

            • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:50PM

              by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:50PM (#172623) Journal

              Caveat Idioti? Carpe dimes? Moron Labia? There were just asking for it. Semper Fraudulatus!

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by sjames on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:18PM

      by sjames (2882) on Saturday April 18 2015, @10:18PM (#172604) Journal

      There was also a matter of fraud used to induce them to enter the situation. Because there was fraud, surely even the most extreme libertarian should be able to see that the students obligations are at an end and that the school needs to be the one paying any additional obligations they fraudulently induced the students to take on.

      TL:DR, yes, the students should be free of their obligations.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @12:37PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 19 2015, @12:37PM (#172811)

    Corinthian Colleges Inc and Fine Corinthian Leather. Both complete lies.