from the inconvenient-timing-for-a-new-os dept.
El Reg reports
Microsoft's relentless Windows 10 nagware has interrupted a live TV weather forecast, urging meteorologist Metinka Slater to upgrade.
The operating system suddenly popped up a box on screen insisting the station's computer be upgraded to the latest version--while Slater was on air describing thunderstorms rolling through Iowa, USA.
The cyber-badgering blatted over her doppler weather radar, which was being broadcast on KCCI 8 News [April 27].
"Microsoft recommends upgrading to Windows 10. Gosh, what should I do?" Slater asked sarcastically.
So, do you know of a case of MSFT update pushiness that rivals this?
Related Stories
A few news outlets reported on a statement by Microsoft Corp. concerning the company's Windows 10 operating system:
The free upgrade offer will end on July 29 and we want to make sure you don't miss out. After July 29th, you'll be able to continue to get Windows 10 on a new device, or purchase a full version of Windows 10 Home for $119.
coverage:
related story:
Windows 10 Nagware Interrupts Live TV Weather Forecast
(Score: 1, Disagree) by toygeek on Friday April 29 2016, @11:32PM
Sure, blame Microsoft, it's the easy thing to do. They're a great scapegoat. But if you're the IT guy responsible for the machine that displays on-air, then it's your job to make sure that nothing obnoxious can happen. If you know that Windows 7 or 8 has this popup, then it's your job to disable it.
There is no Sig. Okay, maybe a short one. http://miscdotgeek.com
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 29 2016, @11:49PM
Seriously, given the way Microsoft has been ramming Windows 10 down everyone's throat, how can any IT guy be 100% sure that "nothing obnoxious can happen"? By installing some other OS. Therefore it is a Microsoft problem.
(Score: 1, Informative) by IndigoFreak on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:17AM
It's IT's job to know. Also, this wasn't some random hidden feature of windows 10. It's been a feature of windows since at least Windows XP.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Blightbow on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:20AM
Also, this wasn't some random hidden feature of windows 10. It's been a feature of windows since at least Windows XP.
Wasn't the nagware rolled out in the August update? (i.e. this thing [infoworld.com])
(Score: 5, Informative) by wendo on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:06AM
Yes, and then the fix to turn it off was reset with the next update, then the next update after that stopped obeying the setting altogether, and so it's gone on, and on, and on.
The IT guy may very well have disabled the damn thing, then the next update re-enabled it etc etc. And these changes are baked into "critical" updates
(Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday April 30 2016, @07:16AM
Why is everyone acting like every random little TV station actually has an IT guy?
Like most small businesses, they are probably just barley holding their computers together, and if something goes belly up they throw a new laptop in, and the old one goes to the closet of failures and sits there till someone gives it to their kids. If the Station has any tech guys he's a video tech and uses off the shelf software and computers to edit news clips.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @08:30AM
This is the NBC affiliate for Des Moines.
The Des Moines metro area has a population over 600,000.
This isn't some go-fer's email machine.
It's the one that puts content on the air.
If I had equipment on which hundreds of thousands of people depended, I think I'd want to keep that in top condition.
Now, you may be right that these Windoze users just stack up the failures until the pile is big enough for somebody to become interested them.
For my part, I wonder just how loud the wake up gong has to be before places dump that company|OS--particularly now that it has become this intrusive.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by IndigoFreak on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:08AM
[quote]upgraded to the latest version[/quote]
Took that the wrong way. Thought it was telling her to update windows, as in bug fixes. Not that she was on Win 7/8 and to get Windows 10.
My fault there.
But my other point remains. IT should know of this and fix it. If it actually is impossible to banish, then they need to be looking into another OS. If their IT department never brought this up as a possibility to management, then the IT staff isn't doing their job. Finger may need to be pointed in other places however.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:22AM
Same for a FOSS OS.
...or has someone used a Linux distro or *BSD spin that does this kind of nagging?
With Linux updates|upgrades[1], the downloads and the installation are separate operations (unless the user/admin specifies otherwise).
Both the download and the installation of software is done in the background.
That is to say that by default this stuff is completely unobtrusive with FOSS.
[1] With Linux, you can even have multiple OS kernels on your box at one time and select with one you want to use at startup.
As for Windoze:
German Basketball Team Relegated to Lower Division Due to Untimely Windows Updates [soylentnews.org]
The OS update seized control of the box and the humans had to wait over 15 minutes while the payware OS did what it pleased.
Thinking that an OS vendor wouldn't ship the thing with insane settings, the box's owner hadn't changed any defaults.
See also "anti-pattern" in the comment by Gravis.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:30AM
I would say, "If you've never seen an OSX error message on a kiosk or billboard, you need to get out more," but you're exactly the kind of blind bigot who would ignore it. Your bias is strong, trendy hip dude.
(Score: 3, Funny) by tibman on Saturday April 30 2016, @02:01AM
That's fair. I've even seen occasional kernel panics. Where a bluescreen would make me laugh, a kernel panic makes me feel sad and want to help the poor kiosk : P
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by SDRefugee on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:06PM
I was in a BurgerKing a while back and there on one of those fancy big screen displays they use to show their menu, was a black screen and a "grub error 25"... LOL! It just proves that ANY OS, MS/Apple or even my beloved Linux can puke errors at inopportune times...
America should be proud of Edward Snowden, the hero, whether they know it or not..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:21PM
that's not really a fair example. that linux box is probably some embedded appliance running a severely outdated kernel/os. Most of these systems never get updated once flashed and were built on ancient kernels, etc. to begin with. That probably goes for win/mac kiosks/appliances too. The O/P was probably not an embedded appliance.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Bot on Sunday May 01 2016, @03:00AM
Error 25 : Disk read error
hardware fault, ergo not OS fault.
Windows probs seen in public places are like 1-2 a year for me.
I do not recall having seen any linux kiosks crap out, OTOH systemd has not been out that long.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 4, Touché) by toygeek on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:37AM
Okay, then (by your approximation) it was the IT guys job to install *nix or OS X and migrate the user to it. But, they didn't. So this is IT's fault.
There is no Sig. Okay, maybe a short one. http://miscdotgeek.com
(Score: 5, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:21AM
Okay, then (by your approximation) it was the IT guys job to install *nix or OS X and migrate the user to it. But, they didn't. So this is IT's fault.
The IT person probably WANTED to do something but couldn't because the software that they used to generate the weather display was Windows only. I've seen more than one situation where a company will buy a "full package", a software/hardware bundle, and be told that if they touch the software or even tweak the OS configuration in any way you void the warranty/service contract. I can tell you from experience that when the boss sees that phrase on a purchase that costs literally tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars the very next words out of their mouths is to the IT guy' "You touch it your fired".
I do not miss that job in the least :/
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @02:19PM
And often version dependent. it wont run on something newer.
Oh, and i know people who have disabled this damned popup, just to have it come back later.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Hairyfeet on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:06AM
Uhh you just run a simple tool like Never10 [grc.com] and call it a fucking day? I mean good God man, if their IT guy is so damned lazy he can't take a whole 10 seconds Googling after all the news in the media about Windows 10 upgrade nags? he really doesn't need to be doing that job. I keep Never10 on the flash toolbox I keep on my keyring and its clicky clicky simple, you can turn upgrades on or off with the same tool, any IT guy with any sense at all really needs a flash toolbox on his keyring with common fixes to common problems and if he knew (which is part of his fricking job) that they weren't going to Win 10 he should have done fixed this issue.
BTW how much you wanna bet they are running this on a Windows Home box? this is one of the reasons i don't do large business IT anymore, got tired of dealing with "IT staff" that would try to brownnose and save a couple bucks by buying Win Home boxes at Dell and then I'd have to come along and use reg hacks and shit to deal with the lack of Group Policy because numbnuts decided to save a dollar...sigh.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by stormreaver on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:34AM
Uhh you just run a simple tool like Never10 and call it a fucking day?
That you consider this kind of behavior in an operating system to be acceptable, and even normal, is disturbing. It is neither normal, nor acceptable. And yes, this is very much Microsoft's fault.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:54AM
You are aware that Never10 has only been available for a couple of weeks, yes? GWX Control Panel has been around a few weeks longer, but the point is, malware blockers for this particular series of unwanted software are relatively new. It's not inconceivable that the station's IT people haven't kept on top of the problem and recent solutions or had sufficient time to vet them.
This cannot be sufficiently emphasized. Microsoft's ongoing updating and re-enabling of the GWX malware where customers have found a way to disable it is reprehensible. Shoving it on to computers while hiding any option to dissent is just evil. Wasting bandwidth and disk storage pushing it onto systems on the slim chance a user might choose to accept the installation, or more likely, as has happened to too many people, in order to slip an installation acknowledgement past them, is despicable.
By rights, antivirus products -- Symantec, Trend Micro, ESET, AVG, Avira, etc. -- should detect and obliterate GWX as the malware it is. In my experience some of them are excessively zealous about blocking less-nefarious software (e.g. port scanners, key recovery tools, some hex editors); the least they could do is protect their customers against a legitimate PUP.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Hairyfeet on Sunday May 01 2016, @12:43AM
Do you say the same for Android? For Linux? Because OSes have been offering to upgrade you to the latest version for years, people are only flipping their shit here because they were trained to whip out their CC when it came to getting a new copy of Windows.
Now am I gonna use Windows 10? Nope because I don't like it, its got too damned much "cloud" shit baked in and until some pirate group releases a "gamer edition" with all that crap ripped out I'm not letting MSFT waste my bandwidth but its literally a single button to say "No I don't want this" in any PROFESSIONAL edition of Windows, which this dumbass SHOULD have had loaded in a business environment.
So quit trying to lay off shitty IT personnel on MSFT, the guy should have been doing his fucking job. I mean for fucks sake man, if his company is all running windows Pro its a single checkbox in Group Policy which will then filter down to all the boxes on the domain (he DID have them on a fricking domain...right?), this is the kind of shit a fricking 16 year old intern can do man, its all GUI. If he WAS stupid enough to go buy win Home boxes from Dell or Worst Buy then its his stupidity and he should have at least had the common fricking sense to go around with a flash stick, shouldn't he?
this is like saying Linux is shit because some company like Walmart buys a bunch of shit boxes that don't run worth a fuck and just slaps a distro on 'em...its not Linux' fault is it because its not being run properly? If you are using win Pro, which again is DESIGNED FOR BUSINESSES, this isn't an issue, its a checkbox, and its that way on Windows Home because you are dealing with the kind of users I deal with every day, the kind that think random texts saying "You won a walmart gift card, just give us your CC number" is legit so if you don't make a pop up the size of a billboard they will never even know it fricking exists.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:34PM
it's sad how windows user think it's ok to just install some more untrustworthy BS to fix a problem caused by untrustworthy BS slaveware. Then, this jackass blames them for not giving MS more money and paying some super whore like himself to setup group policy on "enterprise" windows boxes. ridiculous idiocy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 02 2016, @03:14PM
Yeah, then you get a restart bomb when MS tries to re-foist GWXUI.dll on you.
From experience: Last week I had to re-image my personal laptop when a GWXUI update on Win 8.1 caused a fatal error on boot. I was using GWX Control Panel to take away the Windows 10 updates.
The OP is flatly wrong. It is Microsoft's problem that they're forcing this shit with no way to disable it. We need more public incidents just like this to call the attention of the public to Microsoft's screwup.
(Score: 2) by snick on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:58AM
Of you imagine that OSX doesn't nag users to install updates, then you clearly aren't an OSX user.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @04:01AM
Yeah, install another proprietary operating system that doesn't respect the users' freedoms. That'll solve the problem!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Gravis on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:16AM
You are right, it's not a Microsoft problem, it's an anti-pattern in UI design that Microsoft can't seem to stop using.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by butthurt on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:58AM
Windows 7 was released in 2009. These adverts only started appearing some time after the release of Windows 10 in August of 2015. If you're implying that Microsoft notified its customers before pushing out these adverts, would you please provide a citation for that? If Microsoft placed the ads without giving prior notification, then Microsoft could have anticipated things like this happening. Unless, that is, they didn't hear about billboards and airport displays showing the "blue screen of death."
It seems plausible to me that this television station had installed Wnidows 7 before these adverts started coming out. Perhaps they hired someone temporarily to set up their computer in a way that was thought to necessitate little to no maintenance. If, as you seem to imply, this studio ought to have someone who keeps abreast of Microsoft's doings, in case Microsoft chooses to create further annoyances, that will be an additional cost for them. If they already have IT staff, it will take up time that could have been used more productively. Whether in money or in time, there's a cost for them.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Dunbal on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:24AM
Whooooooooooooooooosh way to miss the fucking point. Yes, blah blah your strawman about blaming the tech guy at the station is an entirely different issue. The point is IMAGINE HOW ANNOYING THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS HAPPENING ON EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER IN THE WORLD that has a non Windows 10 Microsoft OS. THIS is what we are blaming Microsoft for.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by RedBear on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:49AM
So, what you're saying is that Microsoft absolutely did not send out an automatic Windows update for Windows 7/8/8.1 that installs a random pop-up nagware advertisement for Windows 10? Gosh, that seems like a remarkably nonsensical thing to say. And if I have the perfect foreknowledge necessary to disable this obnoxious random pop-up before it does harm, I am then supposed to know, prior to it being reported by anyone else, when they create yet another update to re-enable it?
I find your blame-shifting quite unreasonable. My operating system should not be my enemy. At least, not my deliberate enemy.
But nice job on the victim blaming. And if I stab you in the throat while we're having a pleasant conversation with no indication of animosity, your quick death will be entirely your fault for not making the effort to find out that I had a knife in my pocket, and not wearing an armored plate around your throat to deal with my completely random attack. Even though it's my hand, my knife and my Genuine Throat Stabbing Action[TM], I will hold no responsibility for the throat-stabbing occurrence.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people adore and cling to the complete anti-logic of victim blaming. It's a good indication of how broken the human brain is.
By the way, anyone thinking that this wouldn't happen with OS X should think again. It may not be as obnoxious as the Windows 10 nagware but I have seen a small dialog pop-up from time to time on Macs that are left on an older version of OS X, asking if you want to upgrade to the latest OS X. As far as I know this has only started happening since the OS X upgrades have become free (as in beer). The dialog seems to appear at random times every few days or so. I haven't looked into it so I have no idea how it might be disabled on OS X. This article contains an image showing an example of the OS X nag dialog:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/2015-the-year-windows-os-x-and-ios-became-naggy-and-annoying/ [zdnet.com]
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @04:07AM
Agreed. Apple is far less nefarious about it, but older operating systems do periodically encourage upgrading to the latest version. Unlike Microsoft, though, it's just a small notification bubble, and when you say no -- and unlike Microsoft, Apple does offer a very clear "no thanks" option -- it goes away for two or three months.
I just wish there was a "no, and don't ask me again" option. My 8yo Mac Mini may technically be capable of running the latest version of OS X, but it would be just barely. If Apple hadn't artificially limited the maximum RAM the Macs of that era could support, then we might be on to something, but that's fodder for a different rant. As it is, the Mini is working fine with the older OS version, doing what I require of it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:39PM
they are slaves that are pregnant with the master's baby. they defend the master b/c they still live on the plantation.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Tork on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:52AM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hash14 on Saturday April 30 2016, @05:05AM
Oh come on... is it too much to expect nowadays that your OS shouldn't be intruding into the things that you're doing and forcing you to act on its whims? Is the Operating System supposed to serve the user's purpose or the other way around?
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Saturday April 30 2016, @08:30AM
The other way round, of course. That's why you have wizards asking you to do specific things, instead of a command line where you give commands to the computer.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @02:52PM
Let me remind you of this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NsXHPq71Bs [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by Francis on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:11PM
This kind of attitude is why Windows is no longer running directly on my hardware. I only have an install at all because a small number of programs that I need don't have alternatives that run on other OSes.
If MS would get its head out of its ass long enough to pay attention to what people are actually doing with the software, they wouldn't need to force people to upgrade. If it were just one or two things, this wouldn't be an issue, but it's not really the responsibility of the user to know to disable things like that. MS shouldn't be doing it at all, they have a marketing department and they regularly have ads on TV, the internet and they could do the newspaper if they want.
They're trying to sell people on an inferior product and people know that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @03:28PM
oh yeah, it's IT's fault they didn't anticipate their adversary's(MS) next move or in what exact way MS had already worked against them. Windows makes otherwise competent IT staff look bumbling b/c of how things are bastardized, hidden and constantly reworked to attempt to further subjugate it's users. What kind of sell out defends MS scum?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by linkdude64 on Friday April 29 2016, @11:47PM
I especially liked the part when she cried, "Don't do it!!!"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @09:59AM
Friends don't let friends use MS Windows.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by dltaylor on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:17AM
This is EXACTLY why I recommended my sister-in-law not buy Windows, although some of the software she used ran on it.
Buy a Mac, use Parallels (or whatever) to run that software.
She simply did NOT need to have Windows update kick in during a client presentation.
Last I checked, OSX still allows you to control updates.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:34AM
Dude!! Use Linux, you fucking asshole. Don't you know OSX is not Linux???
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @04:12AM
OS X may not be Linux, but it is BSD, or a sufficiently close derivative. ABM [techopedia.com], my friend.
By the way, you should look at cleaning your keyboard. Some of your punctuation keys seem to be stuck. :P
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:38AM
See if you like the original better (with its possible dual interpretation):
from the time-to-get-a-new-os dept.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @12:48AM
Linux. The best OS in the universe. If you love to kill and rape penguins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:13AM
It is not so much funnier that thou must point it out.
-- gewg_
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:19AM
In her old job, she used to stand up there waving her arms pretending there was a weather map in front of her, when it was really just a green screen.
But now, with the advances of technology...
She gets to do the same thing in front of a blue screen!
(Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Saturday April 30 2016, @04:13AM
Forecast: Blue skies, er, screens! Of Death! Now with more Windows! 10 of them! Thank goodness the last Windoze I ran was Ninety-Five! I am still 85 releases ahead of everyone else!
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday April 30 2016, @05:23AM
You know why msoft went straight from 8 to 10? Because 7 8 9.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:59AM
never rests . . .
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday April 30 2016, @04:13AM
Stuff like this sure helps me out a lot when I am trying to convince a customer why an Arduino / Propeller hybrid is sometimes a good choice for industrial robotics.
I would drop back to DOS, but a lot of stuff I mess with is realtime and extremely task-fidelity sensitive ( especially stepper motors and tricks I play with DMX ). The Propeller helps me out with that. Or sometimes many Arduinos sharing an RS485 multidrop connection running MODBUS ( simple old protocol: easy to troubleshoot and isolate problems ).
I am particularly fond of Arduinos because they are simple enough that high-schoolers often build stuff with them, and I feel they can be trusted to do what they are told to do. If one is not powerful enough, use several. If its time-critical stuff, use a Propeller cog.
I could easily see where even an attempted system update in a bottling plant would *easily* result in thousands of misfilled and mal-labeled bottles.
When it comes to Microsoft, I am afraid to even use an HMI with it in it. I see the Microsoft Embedded logo, and I can't help but wonder if I can trust it?
Will it come back and nag me after I have designed it into something for my customer? If it does, *I* am going to take the hit for this - and probably end up with soiled reputation as well as unpaid time to resolve it. My customer will likely have a run of ruined product, and I will never live it down.
My distrust was really driven to a head about a year ago when Microsoft put that FTDI destruct code in one of their updates. I had to redesign my whole line of stuff to eliminate FTDI products because of that. I can't have my whole product line failing just because a suit-guy shook hands with a Microsoft rep.
Now, another round of the same... [techrepublic.com]. "Trustworthy Computing" my ass. That's not trustworthy... that's "handshake talk" for conning executives that don't know any better.
Understood though that many executives are so high up in their company that threats like this do not rank very high. Like many posts above me has already said... it's the IT guy's fault when things like this happen - and its why I rant so much about stuff like this - because failure of my implementation of someone else's wants is MY fault if I designed it. Would I knowingly use substandard practices with concrete to build a bridge, knowing the consequences of a failed bridge?
The executive will learn when his line of stuff in the field suddenly stops working after a Microsoft update.... however it is likely his hand has been shaken, his pen has signed, and he is in "customer lock-in" before he discovers the Microsoft meaning of the words "trustworthy computing".
Note the link I provide is a recent link to earlier this year...February 2, 2016 ... this is the second go-around of that FTDI chip killer!
In my estimation, Microsoft is for the same kind of executive that would judge a man by his suit.
A man ripe for "being taken to the cleaners".
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @05:22AM
it's the IT guy's fault when things like this happen
First, there's always somebody upstream.
Even Torvalds depends on a distro builder for something to run on his box.
...and the distro builder depends on app builders.
...and around and around we go.
If the upstream guys are making stuff with a HORRIBLE default configuration, well, that's the anti-pattern that Gravis has already mentioned.
Next, I'll bet that -you- don't put horrible defaults in your stuff.
Clearly, it's possible for devs to do the task properly.
It's also apparent that achieving that is far more difficult when the techies work for a company run by salesmen and bean counters.
Lastly, wendo mentioned that the IT guys quite likely -did- their job--as they had been doing with MICROS~1's stuff for some time now.
...and M$'s stupid shit overwrote their work without asking permission.
(Anybody who has installed Windoze *after* installing Linux knows how that goes.)
What's the old line?
M$ is not a software company that dishes out abuse but rather an abuse company that dabbles in software.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @02:23PM
i disagree that this new fanged hobbyist level hardware like propellers and arduinos are good for industrial controls. Not in the slightest. Industry is a harsh environment, and those are not engineered for that. Instead you should be using *proven* technology for adult stuff, like custom built 8051's for example. Leave the toys to the kids.
( and no, this is not sarcasm )
(Score: 1) by anubi on Sunday May 01 2016, @06:57AM
That's the reason I designed my own line of Arduino-compatibles.
An ATMEL chip is very similar ( performance-wise ) to the 8051. I saw many ways I could improve on the board layout and connectoring, as well as interface design.
Like I noted in my earlier post, I redesigned my core processor board to use RS-485 once I saw I could not really ever trust RS-232 again unless I used the 1488 and 1489 chips.
Custom-built 8051's can get expensive, not only that, subject to all sorts of who-owns-what issues, with multiple paths for concerned parties to insert failware into the system to enforce their interests. If businessmen like dealing with that kind of shit, let 'em. I have dealt with it and I am sick of it.
So, now I have MODBUS, SPI, and multiple I2C interfaces on my boards. One of my boards will do telnet and email over the web. Simple old standards, but often sufficient. I do not need microprocessors in my hammer.
One of the things I was hoping for is to keep it simple enough high school kids could program these things with standard off-the-net Arduino development tools - and all the programming skills they picked up playing with hobby Arduinos would be applicable to my controllers.
I guess its the same problem the Linux guys have... if its inexpensive, people think it must not be worth much. However the same people who take great pride in spending the least they have to spend for engineering skills seem to take pride in purchasing the most expensive hardware imaginable with way overkill. I really hate calling in an aerospace contractor to tie my shoe.
I would not sleep easy at all if I ran some system I did not understand and knew some companies could be sweet-talked into sending me an update with some code in the middle of the night to give me a whole mess of problems to sort out in the morning. I have had way too much experience dealing with systems embodying rights enforcement mechanisms to know what a pain in the ass it can be to maintain it after rightsholders sell to others and lay off the people who supported my end of it.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Saturday April 30 2016, @06:48AM
Windows ME was Microsoft's first real dog of an OS, but they saved with Windows 2000 which came out around the same time. Then, the "activation" requirement introduced in Windows XP annoyed a lot of people, but MS got away with it. I thought Microsoft's move to extreme DRM in Windows Vista was such a big mistake it would prove fatal. Instead, they lightened up and survived. I've heard Vista with Service Pack 1 is tolerable. Windows 7 was a winner. Then MS took away the start button in Windows 8. Still not fatal, and they backpedaled on that with Windows 8.1.
And now this ongoing arm twisting of reluctant people into an ill-advised massive upgrade to Windows 10. How many more moronic moves can MS survive? Seems every 3 years they do something else incredibly dumb in the OS area. The free software world simply does not make comparable mistakes. That in turn suggests that MS's business model is inherently inferior.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Saturday April 30 2016, @08:08AM
KDE 4? Gnome 3? SystemD?
The difference is that with Free Software you've usually got alternatives that don't require you to get a different operating system (SystemD might turn out to be an exception in the long term, though, as SystemD and non-SystemD Linuxes might diverge sufficiently that at some point they have to be regarded different operating systems).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:37PM
Windows ME was Microsoft's first real dog of an OS,
Says the person who obviously never used MS-DOS...
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Saturday April 30 2016, @05:44PM
I used MS-DOS, starting with version 3.3, with the 33M limit on partition sizes. The main advance for MS-DOS version 4 was removing that partition limit, but otherwise it was rather bloated compared to 3.3. Version 5 was fairly nice, cleaned up some of the bloat in version 4. I also used Apple DOS 3.2 and 3.3 on the Apple II, and one of the big differences was that MS-DOS supported a directory structure, while Apple DOS did not. Had to use Apple's ProDOS to get directories. Also, Apple DOS was slow thanks to some brain dead coding in which data was read into a buffer and then copied to a final location, taking just long enough that the next sector had rotated past the head and the system would wait for it to do a full revolution. Aftermarket DOSes fixed that. I don't know if MS ever made that mistake, but I think not. The #1 spot for slowest disk access is the Commodore. So in comparison to those, MS-DOS was pretty good.
Yes, they were severely limited, they really were _Disk_ Operating Systems, not full operating systems. They didn't have virtual memory or task switching and they let programs do pretty much anything to the system, including accidentally trashing the copy of DOS loaded into RAM. They didn't run a GUI, didn't even have drivers for video or audio. They were really only drivers for disk drives. Calling them an operating system was a stretch. Even the file system MS-DOS used, FAT, was limited and inefficient, no journaling of course, but then ext2 didn't have that either. I mean, dang, Apple DOS didn't even have a built in "copy" command to copy files! Had to use a file utility (FID) to make a copy. The point of FAT and DOS is that they are simple and don't take lots of memory, and on that they were fairly successful. What do you expect on a computer that has only 1M or even just 640K RAM and bad (80286) or no (8086) protected mode?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @09:53AM
Never 10 [grc.com] - A small free program that hooks the update config and can permanently disable the windows 10 upgrade / nagger.
Many users of Windows 7 and 8.1 are happy with their current version of Windows, and have no wish to upgrade to Windows 10. There are many reasons for this, but among them is the fact that Windows 10 has become controversial due to Microsoft's evolution of their Windows operating system platform into a service which, among other things, aggressively monitors and reports on its users activities. This alone makes many users uncomfortable enough to cause them to choose to wait. In line with this, a few months into 2016, Windows 10 started displaying unsolicited advertisements on its users' desktops. Others dislike the changes Microsoft made by merging their failed “tiled” smartphone user-interface into the Windows UI. And, finally, some object to being force-fed whatever Microsoft wants and simply wish to choose for themselves.
In July of 2015, responding to the significant user backlash, Microsoft added features to its Windows Update facility which allow it to be configured, on a machine-by-machine basis, to not forcibly upgrade qualifying Windows 7 and 8.1 operating systems to Windows 10. However, Microsoft did not make this configuration simple. It requires the use of the group policy editor (which is not present in some qualifying systems) and/or the system registry. In other words, they created some deep internal configuration options but chose not to provide a simple user-interface to give their users the choice. “Never10” provides that choice.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @01:03PM
Never 10 - A small free program that hooks the update config and can permanently disable the windows 10 upgrade / nagger.
For some values of permanently. The only things certain in this world are death, taxes, and that Microsoft's eventually gonna change those settings around or even remove them altogether.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 30 2016, @07:13PM
let me fix that for ya http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ [goodbye-microsoft.com]