Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by on Friday January 27 2017, @04:01AM   Printer-friendly
from the the-ancestral-hobbit-homeland dept.

During their investigation of the purchase of a large estate in New Zealand by Peter Thiel, Matt Nippert and Anne Gibson, reporters for The New Zealand Herald, noticed that certain processes required by the Overseas Investment Act had not been followed. The explanation: Peter Thiel is a NZ citizen and hence wasn't required to follow the procedures for an overseas investment.

If Thiel is so sure that Trump will deliver, why does he need a bolt hole and more importantly, citizenship in another country?

The New York Times adds:

One question being asked was why Mr. Thiel became a New Zealander in 2011. Close behind that was how it happened.

If you like New Zealand enough to want to become a citizen, the country's Internal Affairs Department noted on Wednesday, one requirement is "to have been physically in New Zealand for a minimum of 1,350 days in the five years preceding the citizenship application." Another requirement is that you "continue to reside" there after becoming a citizen.

Mr. Thiel, 49, does not appear to have done either.

[...] If Mr. Thiel was not a resident in New Zealand for the necessary amount of time, an exception must have been made. The government has not responded to questions about whether that happened and, if so, what the reason was.


Original Submission

Related Stories

Everything Wrong with Peter Thiel’s Doomsday Survival Plan 38 comments

Doomsday prepping is not a usual Soylent subject, but apocalypses are a staple of geek culture. Do Peter Thiel's preparations make sense?

You know things are getting risky when billionaires start making plans to flee to New Zealand on the off chance civilization might collapse. This week's New Yorker details the doomsday survival plans of Peter Thiel, and other notable Silicon Valley tech moguls.

The thing is, despite their virtually unlimited budgets, none of these guys is doing it right.

[...] In more realistic circumstances, there are 21.8 million veterans in the U.S., with various levels of professional expertise in solving problems like bunker busting. Hell, there's more guns than people in this country. Fixed locations are inherently vulnerable by their very nature, subject to siege, and allowing attackers to patiently plan ways to penetrate them. Any billionaire's hoard of survival supplies will be a natural target following the breakdown of society. Keeping them secret will be a challenge too, when contractors have been paid to construct them, delivery men have carried the supplies in, and even the armed guards may decide their friends and families could use all those tins of spam a little more desperately than their paranoid employer.


Original Submission

Peter Thiel Migrating From Silicon Valley to Los Angeles 54 comments

Netflix's CEO offered to resign from Facebook's board in 2016, citing his fellow board member Peter Thiel's support of Donald Trump:

Netflix CEO Reed Hastings — who called his fellow board member Thiel's support of Trump "catastrophically bad judgment" in an email leaked to the Times — also offered to resign over his disagreement with Thiel, according to a Wall Street Journal report published Thursday. Sources told WSJ that Facebook CEO Zuckerberg declined Hastings' offer to resign. Facebook declined to comment on the matter to Business Insider.

Now, Thiel may resign from Facebook's board instead in the midst of packing up and leaving the Bay area:

The founder of PayPal and a prominent investor in Silicon Valley, Thiel is reportedly moving his investment firms Thiel Capital and Thiel Foundation out of the Bay Area and into Los Angeles this year, according to WSJ.

In L.A., Thiel is also reportedly planning to build "a right-leaning media outlet to foster discussion and community around conservative topics." Thiel bankrolled the lawsuits that eventually forced Gawker Media into bankruptcy, and has been trying to buy Gawker's now-defunct flagship site.

Although Thiel has called Silicon Valley a "one-party state", in the 2016 Presidential election, Hillary Clinton beat President Trump 72 percent to 22 percent in Los Angeles County.

The Guardian also has an article about Thiel's involvement in New Zealand.

Also at Ars Technica, The Mercury News, LA Times, and Vanity Fair.

Related: Peter Thiel Acquires NZ Citizenship and Large Property
Everything Wrong with Peter Thiel's Doomsday Survival Plan
University Could Lose Millions From "Unethical" Research Backed by Peter Thiel
"Black Hole" of Accountability for Drug Trials Flouting FDA Oversight?
Peter Thiel Makes a Bid for Gawker.com


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Friday January 27 2017, @04:04AM

    by Whoever (4524) on Friday January 27 2017, @04:04AM (#459303) Journal

    Because "money". Film at 11.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @07:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @07:44PM (#459671)

      You missed the "tory government" part also.

      Self entitlement and thinking the rules don't apply to them (often then proving it) is a feature, not a bug...

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:17AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:17AM (#459308)

    To someone of Thiel's libertarianish philosophy, "citizenship" is not some magical part of one's identity; it's just another arbitrary bureaucratic checkbox.

    I like the scenery in New Zealand; If "citizenship" was all that was keeping me from buying a plot of land there, well then I'd purchase the citizenship, too—can it be bundled for a discount?

    The intent is to buy property; the citizenship is just bureaucratic idiocy.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:42AM (#459319)

      The intent is to buy property; the citizenship is just bureaucratic idiocy.

      But, property is theft, so buying citizenship to steal property is the theft of a birthright. I bet some Maori are going to be not happy. Utu.

      And besides, the United States does not recognize dual-citizenship. (except in the case of the "special" nation. They usually do not terminate citizenship, but the fact remains that if Thiel is a Kiwi, he is no longer an American. If he is still pretending to be, under false pretenses, that makes him an agent of a foreign power, a spy. And he runs Palantir, a company that contracts on National Security of the United States? Maybe, just maybe, he is deep down, a Rooskie citizen? The Paypal Manchurian Candidate Advisor to Trump?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Whoever on Friday January 27 2017, @04:55AM

        by Whoever (4524) on Friday January 27 2017, @04:55AM (#459324) Journal

        And besides, the United States does not recognize dual-citizenship. (except in the case of the "special" nation. They usually do not terminate citizenship, but the fact remains that if Thiel is a Kiwi, he is no longer an American.

        False. The USA doesn't recognize dual-citizenship, but it also does not ban it. Source: several members of my family have two passports and the USA knows about it. It can complicate getting a security clearance, but doesn't disqualify the dual-citizen from getting clearance.

        There are acts that could jeopardize a dual-citizen's status as a US citizen, but it's in no way automatic. These days it is generally difficult to give up US citizenship.

        • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:21AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:21AM (#459327)

          Not False! Just "alternative immigration law." And of course, having to actually pay taxes is usually enough to get these types to renounce. Loyalty, it's not just for nations anymore!

        • (Score: 2) by Nollij on Sunday February 05 2017, @03:03PM

          by Nollij (4559) on Sunday February 05 2017, @03:03PM (#463118)

          The USA doesn't recognize dual-citizenship, but it also does not ban it

          Citizenship is granted by the respective countries, according to their own laws. Each country can also revoke citizenship according to its own laws, and a person may also renounce. There is simply no need to recognize dual-citizenship in the first place.

          Traditionally, to become a US citizen, you must renounce any other citizenship. This is no longer the case, but is the likely source of that claim. Not all other countries have the same requirement.
          It's also common for children of a citizen to automatically become citizens - famous examples include Barack Obama (Kenyan, because of his father, until he was 23) [factcheck.org] and Ted Cruz (US, because of both of his parents) [cnn.com]

          To revoke someone's citizenship is not a simple task [findlaw.com]. Unless he renounced, Thiel is most certainly still a US citizen.

      • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday January 27 2017, @12:58PM

        by Wootery (2341) on Friday January 27 2017, @12:58PM (#459430)

        But, property is theft

        That would be communism. We are discussing libertarianism.

        • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday January 28 2017, @02:47AM

          by dry (223) on Saturday January 28 2017, @02:47AM (#459794) Journal

          Libertarianism was originally a left wing philosophy. Can't get much further left then having the government stay out of the peoples business. The failure mode is having the Stalinists show up. Right wing libertarianism has a similar failure mode, look at how many are cheering the idea of not liking your neighbours, so forcing them to pay to build a fence, I mean a wall as they worship the Trump.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism [wikipedia.org]

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:41AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:41AM (#459855) Journal

            Libertarianism was originally a left wing philosophy. Can't get much further left then having the government stay out of the peoples business. The failure mode is having the Stalinists show up. Right wing libertarianism has a similar failure mode, look at how many are cheering the idea of not liking your neighbours, so forcing them to pay to build a fence, I mean a wall as they worship the Trump.

            It's hard enough to debate politics on this forum without the blatantly wrong ad hominems. Just because Thiel chooses to support Trump doesn't mean every "right wing libertarian" does. And every political system has "Stalinists show up" as a key failure mode. In libertarian-based societies, at least people would have considerably more power to resist the Stalinists.

            • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:32AM

              by dry (223) on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:32AM (#460018) Journal

              In libertarian-based societies, at least people would have considerably more power to resist the Stalinists.

              How so?

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 29 2017, @08:58AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @08:58AM (#460182) Journal

                In libertarian-based societies, at least people would have considerably more power to resist the Stalinists.

                How so?

                By killing them with advanced firepower. Having a ready pool for creating armed resistance will at least slow down the Stalinists.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 30 2017, @06:24PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 30 2017, @06:24PM (#460733)

                  By killing them with advanced firepower.

                  See that right there? That is your right-wing authoritarian "libertarian" mode at work. It tends to the use of lethal force, loves them some firearms, and loves inserting objects into other men (why is it always men?) against their will (homosexual rape: that is what war is!). And they yearn for it, with their bug-out bags and EDCs, and doomday preps, as it warms their ammosexual hearts. (Pretty small hearts, actually, not much love in 'em!) But this is where the libertarians are the most stupid. The fear force majeur, when what they really have to beware is seduction. The Donald has grabbed them right by their dicks, and they like it!! And now Donald the Tiny Handed can wield the plenipotentiary power of the UN Presidency to force everyone to, um, be a free individual. Yeah, right!

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 31 2017, @10:32AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 31 2017, @10:32AM (#461137) Journal
                    And the obvious rebuttal is that we're speaking of Stalinists for whom, violence is a very early resort. The ability to quickly meet violence with violence helps dampen the enthusiasm for the Stalinist approach.
                • (Score: 2) by dry on Thursday February 02 2017, @04:14AM

                  by dry (223) on Thursday February 02 2017, @04:14AM (#461879) Journal

                  That may be true in poor backwards countries where socialism/communism usually has success, though poor people often can't afford much in the way of firearms. In western countries the problem is the fascists, and it seems the gun owners usually support them. Can you imagine the armed American right taking up arms against Trump?
                  Most of the successful revolutions in the last half century have been fairly peaceful, while the ones with arms have been like Syria.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 02 2017, @04:58AM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday February 02 2017, @04:58AM (#461883) Journal

                    In western countries the problem is the fascists, and it seems the gun owners usually support them.

                    Authoritarians are all over the political spectrum. I don't agree with your characterization.

                    Can you imagine the armed American right taking up arms against Trump?

                    Yes.

                    Most of the successful revolutions in the last half century have been fairly peaceful, while the ones with arms have been like Syria.

                    Most of the fairly peaceful ones have been with arms too. They've just been one-sided enough in favor of the revolutionaries that the former leader or faction decided not to contest it via military force. What's the point of fighting, if you can't even count on your military, for example? I think a better indication of the level of bloodshed in a revolution is how divided the revolutionaries are. If a revolution will quickly degenerate into a multi-faction struggle, then that's the sort of environment that violent factions, like Stalinists or the original leadership can survive in and perhaps even thrive.

          • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Wednesday February 01 2017, @11:39AM

            by Wootery (2341) on Wednesday February 01 2017, @11:39AM (#461619)

            Can't get much further left then having the government stay out of the peoples business.

            That's nonsense. Leftism wants government to actively intervene to make society a better, fairer place. Decidedly not minarchistic.

            • (Score: 2) by dry on Thursday February 02 2017, @04:02AM

              by dry (223) on Thursday February 02 2017, @04:02AM (#461877) Journal

              That may be true of what Americans call leftist (not quite as far right in most of the world) but just as there are various types of rightists, there are various types of leftists. Originally it was pretty simple. Left equaled for the people or workers and right equaled for the aristocracy or rich.
              There's other political axises as well, libertarian vs authoritarian, which are independent of right vs left. To many people get mixed up, it seems all right/left wingers are authoritarian, depending on your view point, mostly because they're the loudest, so they blame it on right/left. Just to confuse things more, there's also the conservative vs progressive axis. You can have a conservative leftist who dreams of going back to when unions were powerful or a progressive rightist who doesn't mind advancing human rights. Here in Canada, our right wing party for the longest time until they killed themselves with NAFTA and the GST were the Progressive Conservatives, probably closer to the Clinton/Obama Democrats then not.

              • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Friday February 03 2017, @10:30AM

                by Wootery (2341) on Friday February 03 2017, @10:30AM (#462314)

                None of that strikes me as wrong, but it's still silly to in any way equate modern leftism with minarchism. Left libertarianism is a pretty tiny niche.

                In the USA today, the left aren't minarchist, and neither are the mainstream right, even if they like to pretend they are.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:38AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:38AM (#459331)

      To someone of Thiel's libertarianish philosophy,

      Livertarianish? WTF is that? Libertarianism, with a Ubermensch strand of authoritarianism thrown in? The exact opposite of the individual freedom that libertarians mouth all the time? (Oh, and by "mouth", I do not mean what Peter Theil thinks we mean.) Cognitive dissonance, or complete idiocy, hard to tell which one.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:19AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:19AM (#459311)

    Lots of hedge fund managers and silicon valley billionaires have decided they've been fucking up the country so bad that they need to prepare for it all to go to shit. [newyorker.com]
    Every time you hear about a rich guy buying property in NZ, its because they are doomsday prepping.

    Those assholes ought to be working on the problem of helping to build new institutions to replace those being torn down by the social isolation and paranoia that their creations are inducing. Instead they are running off to the other side of the planet.

    For all of the shit he did, Carnegie built 3,000 public libraries. What has Thiel ever done? Create the fucking eye-of-sauron Palantir, try to stake freedom of the press for a personal vendetta, and oh yeah, help president fugazi dishonor the leading symbol of freedom and democracy on the planet.

    Fuck that guy.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by dbe on Friday January 27 2017, @04:38AM

      by dbe (1422) on Friday January 27 2017, @04:38AM (#459317)

      Thanks for posting that, I was actually listening to the NPR podcast talking about that subject:
      http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511507434/why-some-silicon-valley-tech-executives-are-bunkering-down-for-doomsday [npr.org]
      Yes they should be trying to help the society, especially that most apparently think that doom is not coming in an instant but would be long slide to society disintegration.
      In this case, some prophylactic actions could really help...
      Cheers
      -dbe

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:41AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @04:41AM (#459318)

      Why should they try to fix this country? It's populated by us who voted Trump into the White House.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by ikanreed on Friday January 27 2017, @04:49AM

      by ikanreed (3164) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 27 2017, @04:49AM (#459323) Journal

      And this is the particular rich, meddlesome fucker who was especially interested in foisting Trump on us.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 27 2017, @02:16PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 27 2017, @02:16PM (#459455) Journal

        And this is the particular rich, meddlesome fucker who was especially interested in foisting Trump on us.

        He made that arrangement in 2011 when Obama was in power. And the original poster has since called for rich people to meddle. It's their "responsibility".

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @03:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @03:34PM (#459496)

          > He made that arrangement in 2011

          So he saw that things were getting bad and he decided to speed up the collapse.
          He's a real peach.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:43AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:43AM (#459772) Journal

            So he saw that things were getting bad and he decided to speed up the collapse.

            I doubt Thiel sees it that way.

        • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:03AM

          by dry (223) on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:03AM (#459796) Journal

          Meddle by building libraries was the example. Encouraging literacy seems like meddling that could help things.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:08AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:08AM (#459853) Journal

            Meddle by building libraries was the example. Encouraging literacy seems like meddling that could help things.

            And meddling by getting Trump elected is also the example. What makes your example better than Thiel's example?

            • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:34AM

              by dry (223) on Sunday January 29 2017, @01:34AM (#460021) Journal

              Electing an authoritarian doesn't usually improve things

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:00AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 29 2017, @09:00AM (#460184) Journal

                Electing an authoritarian doesn't usually improve things

                Looking at this, there's a good case for Trump being the lesser of two evils. Sure, he has espoused somewhat strong authoritarian viewpoints than Clinton has. He also has far weaker support than she has for any authoritarian schemes. I can't read minds, but I wouldn't be surprised if Thiel thought she was the greater authoritarian threat.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:26AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:26AM (#459328)

      Interesting... kiwis could bring doomsday to the ones escaping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand [wikipedia.org] and other pages suggest population below 5M, licenses over 200K and weapons over 1M. Of course NZDF (Ngāti Tūmatauenga, "Tribe of the God of war"... stylish) could help if the new guys become a country level escape goat. But in other countries it would be police and defense forces only (or stolen weapons from them, and poor training), not so many citizens that are already used to weapons.

      If they think NZ, under global doomsday, is going to keep with all the luxuries they are used to... good luck. They must think modern medicine or electronics grow on trees. In that dire situation, goat heads do.

      Yep, they should be trying to fix the mess. And as first priority, not as philanthropic hobby.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:43AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:43AM (#459856) Journal

        Yep, they should be trying to fix the mess.

        Ok, how?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @06:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @06:30AM (#459338)

      You are looking at it as someone who has to scrap for assets.

      Look at it through a different lens. The lens of showing off power. There are watches out there that cost 30k+ USD. Are they any better at telling time than elcheapo dollar tree special made in china? Not really. But they carry a different thing along with them. The show of money.

      Also since the article decided to bring Trump into this (eye roll). We can use him as an example of what I mean. The dude is silly rich. He can buy pretty much whatever he likes and not care. Yet you see him buying basically junk food all the time. He could eat 500 dollar a plate dinners 3 times a day for the rest of his life and not even put a dent in his fortune. He buys what he likes. That seems to be junk food (aka KFC, mcdonalds, etc). Look at his suite that he lives in trump tower. A alter to gaudy golden thrones. He is showing it off. That is how rich people telegraph to each other who is the alpha. We as plebes look at it shake our heads and go 'what a waste'. You think rich people use money for 'good or bad'. They use it as weapon for popularity and whatever they feel like.

      Carnegie built 3,000 public libraries
      He could have built 30k of them and still have a sizable fortune. He was trying to buy a legacy of doing good on a sea of blood, iron, and coal.

      freedom of the press for a personal vendetta
      Yes you are free to say whatever the hell you like. It does not mean saying things about others does not come without consequences. The case they lost at they were ordered several times by a judge to knock it off until the trial was over. They ignored him. Pissing off a judge does not make them magically say 'oh yep your right free speech'. Buzzfeed is only a notch above the national enquirer and star magazines. When you dump shit out on someones front yard sometimes they scoop it up and put it back on their yard. Remember this is the same org that just dumped the 'trump dossier' on the net. No vetting, nothing. They wanted to hurt trump. Not for the good of truth but to make themselves look good. When it was proven false they looked the fools and took CNN and NBC for the ride.

      What has Thiel ever done?
      I would say even with your example he gave many people the chance to see justice done for them. He gave them the ability to have their voice heard instead of crushed under a wave of another millionaires lawyers. They had a long trail of bodies laid behind them and they looking to be reverting back to their old ways with no remorse. They *will* be sued again for the same reasons.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 27 2017, @01:05PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 27 2017, @01:05PM (#459433) Journal

      Those assholes ought to be working on the problem of helping to build new institutions to replace those being torn down by the social isolation and paranoia that their creations are inducing. Instead they are running off to the other side of the planet.

      It's not their job to clean up your problems. Given how rich people are being scapegoated for everything wrong with the US, they would have to be pretty dumb to not at least worry a little about whether the US will remain a safe place for them.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @01:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @01:11PM (#459435)

        > It's not their job to clean up your problems.

        Bootlicker.

        They made the problems.
        They profited from the problems.
        They have a responsibility to fix the problems.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 27 2017, @02:06PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 27 2017, @02:06PM (#459450) Journal
          The obvious rebuttal is no they don't have "a responsibility". That's imaginary social contract bullshit.

          Let us keep in mind that there are far more poor US voters than rich ones. And a lot of the problems, like the rapidly growing costs of government entitlements like Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare, the rapidly growing costs of things like education, shelter, and health care, or the decline in the quality of basic government services (roads, public schools, law enforcement and emergency services, etc), are due to those voters making bad choices for more than half a century.
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 27 2017, @02:20PM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 27 2017, @02:20PM (#459456) Journal

            That's imaginary social contract bullshit.

            It's hardly imaginary. It surrounds you every day of your life. When you haul your drunken ass into a cab late at night on payday, what's to stop him from murdering you, grabbing all your cash, and dumping your carcass in a back alley? Nothing but the social contract. There are places in the world where such a thing would happen to you readily, because they do not have that same social contract in place.

            It's evident that you are not a student of history or sociology, because it would it would be simple to reference the fall of feudalism or some other example of what happens when the social contract changes or falls apart. But that's the sort of thing the Parent was referring to here.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @06:14PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @06:14PM (#459603)

              It's hardly imaginary. It surrounds you every day of your life. When you haul your drunken ass into a cab late at night on payday, what's to stop him from murdering you, grabbing all your cash, and dumping your carcass in a back alley? Nothing but the social contract.

              Yeah, that happened to me once! Darn social contract! If only I had had an obvious rebuttal!

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:42AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:42AM (#459771) Journal

              It's evident that you are not a student of history or sociology, because it would it would be simple to reference the fall of feudalism or some other example of what happens when the social contract changes or falls apart. But that's the sort of thing the Parent was referring to here.

              Then by all means find such an example and do so. Your would-be example of the "fall of feudalism" ignores two things. First, the obliteration of European nobility in a bunch of nasty wars from the 15th to 17th centuries. It's hard to exert power when you're dead. And second, the obsolescence of the system by superior approaches that were stronger both economically and militarily.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @05:25AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @05:25AM (#459824)

                First, the obliteration of European nobility in a bunch of nasty wars from the 15th to 17th centuries.

                WTF? Alternative history now? Is this khallow, or has Runaway taken over the account?

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @09:37AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @09:37AM (#459850) Journal

                  First, the obliteration of European nobility in a bunch of nasty wars from the 15th to 17th centuries.

                  WTF? Alternative history now? Is this khallow, or has Runaway taken over the account?

                  For example, in England there was the War of Roses [wikipedia.org] through to the English Civil War [wikipedia.org]. Feudalism was quite dead by the end of the English Civil War. A key early battle in Continental Europe was the 1415 Battle of Agincourt which saw the destruction of a huge portion of French knights by English bowmen. A similar key ending event in Europe was the Thirty Years' War [wikipedia.org] ending with the Peace of Westphalia [wikipedia.org] in 1648.

                  And I notice that you have yet to say why you're being derisive. Do you actually know any relevant history?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:50AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:50AM (#459777) Journal
              Well, if we're going to talk about that as if it were a real thing, then what of the tens of millions of people who consistently voted to ignore systemic problems in stuff like Social Security, health care costs, or corruption in government for longer than most of us have been alive? Shouldn't they have to bear "responsibility" as well?
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @03:31PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @03:31PM (#459494)

            > The obvious rebuttal

            Its pretty early in the day, but what the hell, Its Friday!!!

            Every time you say "the obvious rebuttal" everybody takes a shot.

            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=17243&cid=448302 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=16849&cid=437967 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=13985&cid=358591 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15453&cid=400343 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15259&cid=395330 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15168&cid=393131 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=9968&cid=247750 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=16319&cid=422041 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=16518&cid=427099 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=10407&cid=257984 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15451&cid=400237 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=6171&cid=146540 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15790&cid=409076 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=13861&cid=354825 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15899&cid=412132 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=10156&cid=252378 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=16621&cid=430615 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=16024&cid=414867 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=14796&cid=382957 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=14796&cid=382957 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=12649&cid=319100 [soylentnews.org]
            https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=17028&cid=442427 [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @09:53PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @09:53PM (#459728)

              Heh, I love seeing other people bitchslap that fool. I'm not perfect, sue me :P

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:10AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:10AM (#459765) Journal

                Heh, I love seeing other people bitchslap that fool. I'm not perfect, sue me :P

                You do realize at this point, I'm deliberately using the term to get more links on that list? And funny that you should mention "bitchslapping". The whole point behind the "obvious rebuttal" is that people aren't thinking about the obvious a lot. You'll see plenty of that in those links.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @01:33AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @01:33AM (#459784)

                  Nah. What you fail to realize is that whenever you call something obvious all you are doing is telling the world that your brain is stuck in a rut. That you are unable to overcome a pathetic ideology that has cemented itself into your belief system so strongly that you would assert the sky is 'obviously' purple and be confused when no one agreed with you.

                  In other words every time you say something is "obvious" what you are really says is "I am an idiot."

                  That's why people play the drinking game - your lack of self-awareness is so strong that there is no point in engaging with you, you are incapable of arguing in good faith, so instead we drink.

          • (Score: 2) by turgid on Friday January 27 2017, @06:42PM

            by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 27 2017, @06:42PM (#459623) Journal

            let us keep in mind that there are far more poor US voters than rich ones. And a lot of the problems, like the rapidly growing costs of government entitlements like Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare, the rapidly growing costs of things like education, shelter, and health care, or the decline in the quality of basic government services (roads, public schools, law enforcement and emergency services, etc), are due to those voters making bad choices for more than half a century.

            Well, they certainly outdid themselves this time.Pull-My-Finger!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @10:13PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @10:13PM (#459733)

            You have so little perspective... On one hand I envy you for your warm blanket of ignorance and denial. On the other hand I wouldn't trade my knowledge and experience for all the warm fuzzy feels in the world. Social welfare programs are a problem because the wage gap is so bad that a huge portion of US citizens can't afford basic living expenses. You can trot out examples of people screwing the system, but that is the minority of the cases and is just a straw man argument.

            The rich have purchased politicians to reduce their tax rates, they have failed to maintain livable wages, quite a few top corporations are given government subsidies, and here is Khallow with the gall to blame the general public. Using democracy as a scapegoat, and blaming the victims of a rigged system is the height of douchebaggery. You are a massive tool who drank some nasty Koolaid.

            People with your world view are literally the cause and continued supporters of all the problems facing the US right now. Blaming the programs that help people instead of the programs that kill people. Where is your condemnation for invading Iraq? We were lied to and the taxpayers funded a massive war with tons of money funneled into the hands of private contractors. You support some of the worst ideas around here, and your judgment is highly selective to the point where you don't even realize you're a total hypocrite.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:21AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @12:21AM (#459766) Journal

              You have so little perspective...

              Compared to the people complaining about the rich I have a lot of perspective. In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

              Social welfare programs are a problem because the wage gap is so bad that a huge portion of US citizens can't afford basic living expenses.

              Social welfare programs are a good part of the problem here. The more inefficient the economy is made by taking wealth away from people who actually do useful stuff, the less people are elevated out of poverty. Same goes for the social programs that make employing people more expensive. And another factor is that social welfare programs are a massive bribe for the status quo. This stuff has always been a lever to get voters to crack open more spending on corruption and corporate welfare.

              People with your world view are literally the cause and continued supporters of all the problems facing the US right now. Blaming the programs that help people instead of the programs that kill people. Where is your condemnation for invading Iraq? We were lied to and the taxpayers funded a massive war with tons of money funneled into the hands of private contractors. You support some of the worst ideas around here, and your judgment is highly selective to the point where you don't even realize you're a total hypocrite.

              Entitlements are the shield protecting the powers-that-be from such condemnation.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:59PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:59PM (#459904)

                Compared to the people complaining about the rich I have a lot of perspective. In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

                As someone who is actually rich, I call bullshit. You have absolutely no idea how the people in my social class see the world. For them you are nothing more than polezniye duraki.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:22PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:22PM (#459953) Journal

                  As someone who is actually rich, I call bullshit. You have absolutely no idea how the people in my social class see the world. For them you are nothing more than polezniye duraki.

                  I never said that people who were wealthy are intellectually any better than anyone else. In fact, if we are to take your post at face value, you're a demonstration that being rich doesn't give a special vantage. After all, you care about dumb, rich peoples' perceptions. I think we have a vast over-supply of small-minded people. Maybe we should try to be less small-minded, eh?

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:36PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @10:36PM (#459957)

                    > Maybe we should try to be less small-minded, eh?

                    Start by looking in the mirror.
                    I'm pretty sure you are that guy who is still running around with only 10% of a brain. [sciencealert.com]

                    Seriously, EVERYBODY sees right through your ayn randian fanfiction. We understand you. You are just too intellectually limited to get past what most smart kids grow out of by the time they graduate from college.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @06:53AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @06:53AM (#459352)

    And why do I need to post additional content to ask?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by lx on Friday January 27 2017, @07:40AM

      by lx (1915) on Friday January 27 2017, @07:40AM (#459366)

      A bolt hole is a place to hide.

      Why you need to ask? I'm guessing it's either because you have a lack of general education combined with mediocre Google skills, or you prefer to bitch about your ignorance to going out of your way to learn something new.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @07:50AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @07:50AM (#459372)

        Unfair, AC!

        Why you need to ask? I'm guessing it's either because you have a lack of general education combined with mediocre Google skills,

        No, this seems to be an "idiom", which is a proper technical term for "a word or phrase used by idiots". Thanks for playing. For extra-credit, explain "spider-hole" to us!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @08:03AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @08:03AM (#459374)

        I'm guessing it's either because you have a lack of general education

        Not a native English speaker, probably.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @08:52AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @08:52AM (#459381)

          And here native speaker me was thinking it was a hole you put a bolt into, but not the way Peter thinks of it.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:37PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @05:37PM (#459574)

        I'm a native speaker and I've never heard that term used in that context before. I asked about ten people around my office, which is in the United States, and none of them have ever heard of "bolt hole" meaning "a place to hide."

        • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:25AM

          by dry (223) on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:25AM (#459806) Journal

          Think of the sentence "After being startled by the fox, the rabbit bolted into its hole"
          Perhaps Americans have forgot the original meaning of bolt?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @04:12PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @04:12PM (#459905)

            What? Knowing the definition of "bolt" has nothing to do with knowing what the term "bolt hole" means, it just makes it easier to derive it through context. However, that wasn't the issue. The issue was NOBODY says "bolt hole" in LARGE regions of the English-speaking world, and acting incredulous and intellectually superior doesn't change the fact in a news story meant for wide dissemination is probably not the wisest choice.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @04:14PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 28 2017, @04:14PM (#459906)

              Damn it, phone, stop deleting things. "...doesn't change the fact that using such an obscure term in a news story meant for wide dissemination is probably not the wisest choice."

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 30 2017, @06:48PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 30 2017, @06:48PM (#460742)

                Are you saying the OP meant "bore hole", but yet again, not in the way Peter Thiel thinks of it?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @01:58PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 27 2017, @01:58PM (#459447)

      And why do I need to post additional content to ask?

      Or you could have just googled it.

    • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:19AM

      by dry (223) on Saturday January 28 2017, @03:19AM (#459801) Journal

      You're supposed to put the question in the body as not all of us pay much attention to the subject.
      It would be nice if more AC's logged in. Don't mind having a discussion with them but it is harder when you don't know if it one or more AC's and whether they'll ever bother to check for a reply.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by aristarchus on Friday January 27 2017, @08:54AM

    by aristarchus (2645) on Friday January 27 2017, @08:54AM (#459383) Journal

    First this, and then I notice in the pipe a piece on Zuckerberg and the Hawaiians. Combined with some other "island" issues, like Ellison and his private island lair, is there a trend we should be paying attention to? South China Sea, anyone?

    • (Score: 2) by Geezer on Friday January 27 2017, @11:05AM

      by Geezer (511) on Friday January 27 2017, @11:05AM (#459411)

      I hardly think China's goal in the South China Sea is to create island refuges for their elite ruling class. They have the Communist option of simply killing any and all threats to good order and discipline before said threats get too big for their breeches.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Friday January 27 2017, @12:38PM

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 27 2017, @12:38PM (#459425) Journal

        Yes. The South China Sea dispute is a geopolitical show of force, strategic military buildup, and an attempt to control undersea resources and sea shipping routes.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 27 2017, @02:33PM

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 27 2017, @02:33PM (#459463) Journal

          Beijing is trying to make de facto what their maps of the world have reflected for decades, that the South China Sea belongs to China in its entirety. Oil, fishing grounds, shipping lanes, and tightening the noose on their renegade province, Taiwan, are all part of that. More expansively, it could set the stage for anschluss of the surrounding regions where an additional 400 million Overseas Chinese live, but that's several hops and years of projections out.

          A clever and determined foreign policy from the US would use China's aggression as a rallying point for ASEAN and its allies in South Korea and Japan to strengthen encirclement of Beijing, but we're probably not going to get that before it will be too late to employ it. A trade war with China means a restive population there; they have no civil society to buffer the economic dislocations so Beijing's back would very quickly be against the wall, and dollars to donuts says they'd choose a patriotic war to channel the discontent.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Friday January 27 2017, @02:50PM

            by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 27 2017, @02:50PM (#459476) Journal

            A clever and determined foreign policy from the US would use China's aggression as a rallying point for ASEAN and its allies in South Korea and Japan to strengthen encirclement of Beijing, but we're probably not going to get that before it will be too late to employ it. A trade war with China means a restive population there; they have no civil society to buffer the economic dislocations so Beijing's back would very quickly be against the wall, and dollars to donuts says they'd choose a patriotic war to channel the discontent.

            Would the TPP have been a part of that clever foreign policy?

            --
            [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
            • (Score: 3, Funny) by aristarchus on Friday January 27 2017, @06:17PM

              by aristarchus (2645) on Friday January 27 2017, @06:17PM (#459606) Journal

              Silly Soylentils! So easily distracted! Squirrel!!! (Pay no attention to the young blood transfusing flightless bird behind the curtain!)

          • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday January 27 2017, @06:57PM

            by bob_super (1357) on Friday January 27 2017, @06:57PM (#459634)

            > use China's aggression as a rallying point for ASEAN and its allies in South Korea and Japan to strengthen encirclement of Beijing

            Funnily, the fact that US allies overlook all the islands separating China from the open sea is one of the main drivers of those Chinese "aggressive policies" (resources and pride being the other two).
            They want a Blue Water PLAN, but to reach blue waters they have to go past US weapons, because the US is meddling everywhere, and building bases around China (as with Russia).
            Sure, it's totally because those governments are afraid of the Chinese who have never invaded them nor signaled any intention to ever do so...

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 27 2017, @07:53PM

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 27 2017, @07:53PM (#459674) Journal

              Funnily, the fact that US allies overlook all the islands separating China from the open sea is one of the main drivers of those Chinese "aggressive policies" (resources and pride being the other two).
              They want a Blue Water PLAN, but to reach blue waters they have to go past US weapons, because the US is meddling everywhere, and building bases around China (as with Russia).

              Maybe I'm missing your point, but you do know that the People's Republic of China has thousands of miles of coastline, right? Even if you strangely discount that as access to "blue water," they still have Hainan.

              Yes, they have to contend with American naval power, but that's no less so after building a harbor upon those reefs in the Spratly Islands.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.
              • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday January 27 2017, @08:03PM

                by bob_super (1357) on Friday January 27 2017, @08:03PM (#459682)

                Look at that map again. To get from their coast to open international waters (the Pacific), they always have to go past a US base or ally. It would be a major issue in case someone turns too bellicose, but it's a already permanent issue that they can't come and go discreetly (which is kind of important when you have nuclear subs).

                The islands are more for resources and pride, but the Blue Waters access is why they love the new Filipino guy.

  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Friday January 27 2017, @01:14PM

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Friday January 27 2017, @01:14PM (#459437) Journal
    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday January 27 2017, @02:44PM

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday January 27 2017, @02:44PM (#459473) Journal

    I can't fault the choice of New Zealand. It is gorgeous. The people are friendly. You can ski and surf in the same day. There are millions of sheep if you tend that way.

    It's unfortunate that it is so difficult to emigrate there. You have to put down an amount of cash that's prohibitive for all but the wealthiest.

    It is mistaken, though, for those like Thiel to think that the place will be a secure bolthole for them. For one thing, if the US falls into chaos there's nothing standing behind them versus the locals, who could very easily decide to confiscate all their money and property 'for the good of the country.' Second, if a regime that eventually emerges after chaos in the US has run its course decides it means to hunt down people like Thiel, there will be no place on Earth where they can hide.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday January 27 2017, @07:04PM

    by Gaaark (41) on Friday January 27 2017, @07:04PM (#459644) Journal

    It's Trump's way of making America great again:

    get rid of all the rich American a**holes who do nothing but buy politicians to vote the rich american way instead of in the interests of America.

    Get rid of the lobbying, get rid of the corruption, get rid of the politicians way of getting money other than the 'earn your pay' way.

    In the end, America wins! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, by getting rid of allllllll the a**holes!!!
    :)

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---