from the 'Good-fences-make-good-neighbors'-/-Mending-Wall-/-Robert-Frost dept.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-history-photos-2017-4:
One of the Trump administration's latest immigration policies has come under fire, after Homeland Security figures revealed that ICE is separating families at the US-Mexico border.
Between May 5 and June 9, border officials separated more than 2,300 children from 2,206 parents, the DHS said Tuesday. The policy, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced in early May, enforces "zero-tolerance" regulations on those who enter the US without documentation. Any migrant who attempts to cross the southern border — even those seeking asylum — is now being prosecuted.
Following mounting pressure from both sides of the aisle, Trump signed an executive order that he said will stop family separation at the border. But the fate of immigrant children already in custody remains unclear, and the order still faces legal obstacles.
The goal of establishing a firm physical boundary to separate the US from Mexico is nothing new. In the country that has the world's largest immigrant population, American presidential administrations have tried tightening security along the border for around a century.
Though the divide was formally established in 1824, the US didn't launch its official Border Patrol until 1924. Inspection and holding stations were created after that, followed by the construction of miles of fences with barbed wire and steel barriers over the next few decades.
The included pictures and captions speak of the changing attitudes towards Mexicans and their efforts to cross the border over the years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @09:07PM
to see the photo of the plaque from the next 6 years: "Paid for by Mexico".
(Score: 4, Interesting) by BsAtHome on Sunday July 01 2018, @09:56PM (24 children)
Maybe you are doing it wrong, hoping to get Mexico to pay for the wall. Maybe you should do what USA has been so very good at and get capitalism to solve the problem.
There should be a CocaCola and Pepsi wall section, a Google wall section, an Exxon section. Several many miles could be covered by Pharmacy Giants - see the wall, get an opiate pill (advise) for free. The possibilities are limitless! Think about the possibility of an Amazon section with a warehouse build on the right/wrong side!
Yes, my friends, capitalism will save you all from the Mexicans. I'm absolutely sure of it.
/s
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:18PM (18 children)
Well, considering the "problem" is "how can I get someone else to pay for only the second man-made object to be visible from the Moon?" I'm not sure capitalism is going to raise its hand and offer up the billions. Especially when the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue wants his name to be put on it. He is counting on the same naming result as the ACA ended up with.
Getting Mexico to pay for it is just to rile up his base. Getting his name on an object that will outlast his term in office is solely to satisfy his ego.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:25PM (17 children)
He may be doing it for ego, but he is still doing us a big favor. The Democratic party, now in shambles, is going all-in on weaponized immigration and betting on the Mexicans to replenish their dwindling numbers. And, as any American knows, there is no shortage of Mexicans.
And so families are being separated. So fucking what? Don't like being locked in cages? Don't break our damn laws, assholes! White American citizens get locked in cages and have their kids taken from them when they break laws. What is really needed besides a wall are Hellfire-armed drones launching strikes to bug-splat anybody trying to illegally cross our borders.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @11:55PM (3 children)
We don't need Hellfire-armed drones. All we need is a wall, then a hundred meter no-man's-land zone, then a fence, then a minefield for another hundred meters, then another fence, then an access road, then another fence, and then another wall -- along every inch of the border. With guard turrets every so often filled with sharpshooters who will shoot to kill anyone, even the photogenic small children who will be shoved over the wall for propaganda purposes. Once.
Oh, and the guards will also shoot anyone who tries to get over the inner-most wall from the U.S. side, like protestors will try to do. Once.
There might be a problem with the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, which is on the border in Arizona. Simply ask the tribe which side of the walls they wish to be on.
Sadly, none of this is likely to happen. We don't seem to have the will to identify correctly that our country is being systematically invaded, and to kill the invaders as they deserve. These aren't criminal acts that should involve arrest and a court hearing. They're invading -- kill them. (and by showing we're serious, people will stop coming, and then fewer people will die in the U.S. deserts, and fewer people including children will be raped and murdered by human traffickers)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @02:02AM (2 children)
...and don't forget that northern border.
It's abundantly clear that these trespassers should be murdered on sight.
Proportionality and all that, y'know.
.
It's just amazing how many USAians have seen WAY too many cops & robbers movies from the 1930s and believe that it's OK to just blaze away at someone who is absolutely no threat.
I believe it has something to do with an undersized penis.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 02 2018, @03:24AM (1 child)
Believe me, we're having big problems with Canada. Billions of dollars gets brought into Canada through the border. We get the killers, drugs & crime, they get the money! As your President, I have instructed my Border Patrol to set up Highway Checkpoints. In Maine, in New Hampshire, in many places. To stop the drugs, to stop the guns, to stop the terrorists!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @03:35AM
Even before Donald J. Trump Sr became a senile old fart, he was a nitwit with a serious personality disorder.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:09AM (2 children)
Democrats aren't just importing Mexicans (and other Central/South Americans) to replenish their dwindling numbers of voters. Their leaders also want the poor little children to be set free from the holding centers, so that the deliveries of the leaders' sex poppets can be completed. Those Democrats paid for those children, damn it, and they want what they paid for!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @03:08AM (1 child)
...who don't have a majority in the House or Senate, or on SCOTUS, and who don't currently occupy the White House.
deliveries of [...] sex poppets
Again, the GOP has complete control of the Executive Branch.
If those Trumpians were doing their fucking jobs properly, the people to whom those youngsters are being turned over would have been vetted.
...and the sex traffickers|child labor abusers wouldn't have those kids.
...which is not to say that the Donkeys were doing a glowing job WRT immigration when they had the gig.
...but, geez. Orders of magnitude difference from today.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:04AM
The traffickers are active in Mexico and ICE are doing their jobs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:10AM
Still sounding stupid. Good job!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:47AM (7 children)
Who do you think is picking the produce, working in the meat packing plants, washing the cars, reshingling the roofs in the August sun, changing the baby's diapers, cleaning the motel rooms, and busing the tables so you can sit down?
That's right. It's first-generation USAians working for cutthroat Capitalists who are trying to maximize profits by minimizing costs.
...and the nastier the job, the more likely that it is being done by someone who is undocumented.
Don't break our damn laws
Clearly, you don't even know what the law is.
Here that is: Anyone can apply for asylum at any port of entry.
If the buildings were right on the USA border, this wouldn't even be a thing.
...but since they're set back by 100 yards, there is a no-man's land that has to be crossed and Drumpf and his stooges are subverting the law and intercepting people on their way to do something that is within their rights.
...then Drumpf points to his own law breaking and gets idiots like you to cheer his criminality.
BTW, violating USA's border is a misdemeanor--like shoplifting a pack of gum.
Even when interceptions are valid, this jackboot stuff is out of all proportion.
.
The fact is that immigrants in USA are more law-abiding than native-born USAians. [washingtonpost.com]
...and these folks seeking asylum are from places where USA has subverted Democracy via coups and other regime-change activities, arming their militaries and training them in torture and terrorism.
...not to mention USA's idiotic failed War on Drugs and how it has spilled over into those places.
(MS13 was founded in USA.)
assholes!
The assholes who are violating the law WRT asylum seekers are the Drumpf administration.
.
...and "damn" is a noun or a verb.
When used as an adjective or adverb, the word is "damned".
Nitwit.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday July 02 2018, @01:55AM (2 children)
My country sucks, I think I'll just abuse asylum laws to move to a better country, like Canada, or Germany, or Sweden, or...oh, wait.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @02:27AM
It's even easier than you know.
Just get a student visa.
They'll take you and even give you a publicly-funded education.
Wouldn't surprise me if the the people you encounter there speak better English that the dull-witted USAians with whom you hang out.
I'll just abuse asylum laws
Even if they saw things that way in those places (which I seriously doubt), I'm confident they'd not even raise an eyebrow--especially with your White Privilege, which you constantly overlook.
Pretty sure you wouldn't get the third degree in the way that USAians Fascists have been overreacting since 9/11--in particular since Drumpf.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @04:45PM
You wouldn't pass the IQ test to get into any other country.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @02:26AM (1 child)
>Who do you think is picking the produce, working in the meat packing plants, washing the cars, reshingling the roofs in the August sun, changing the baby's diapers, cleaning the motel rooms, and busing the tables so you can sit down?
So racist... I can't even.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @02:33AM
You might be dangerous--if you had a brain.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @03:57AM (1 child)
You can apply for asylum at any US consulate or embassy. We have them all over the world, including 9 in Mexico. You don't have to break our law to get asylum.
Asylum is for stuff like a government that persecutes you for your religion or ethnicity. Ordinary stuff, like poverty and gang violence, doesn't qualify.
Asylum must be applied for in the first safe country you reach. Canada and Mexico are both considered safe countries (not going to genocide you) so you normally don't qualify for asylum in the USA if you pass through one of them. (you are free to try convincing us that one of them is trying to exterminate you however; good luck with that)
You are purposely mixing up illegal aliens with legal immigrants when you say that immigrants are more law-abiding. That is a lot of tech workers. Even ignoring the crime of improperly entering the country, illegal aliens are far more prone to crime. Nearly all of them commit identity theft, typically a felony.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @04:37AM
That's up to a judge.
Someone getting sent back to certain death is definitely a mitigating circumstance.
Trumpians taking the judges out of the loop is a major violation of the due process guaranteed by the Constitution.
...and in determining who may not be deprived of due process, the Constitution does NOT say "no US citizen"; it says NO PERSON.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday July 02 2018, @05:39PM
White American citizens get locked in cages and have their kids taken from them when they break laws.
Not for trespassing they don't.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:22PM (1 child)
Or cut all aid to Mexico, and every country the people ILLEGALLY crossing are from. That'll pay for it. While they're at it... Build a huge sewage pump station in San Diego to pump Tijuana's shitwater back into Mexico. Tijuana's sewage has been polluting San Diego's coastline with absolutely no concern from Mexico.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:27PM
And out in the Imperial Valley, we have the New River, the most polluted river in North America. How'd it get so nasty? Yep, you guessed it, it's because is flows into America from Mexicali.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @01:23AM
What about the taggers?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Monday July 02 2018, @03:48AM (1 child)
You really think companies that benefit from the downward pressure immigration/offshoring puts on wages, would actually want to do that?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @05:21PM
I think that the people who run those companies don't want to get sent to prison where they will be raped five times a day.
I've long advocated that those who employ the illegal invaders be punished. My proposal, which applies to single-owner lawn care services as well as multi-national corporate giants:
First offense (that is, first time getting caught employing illegals): fined in the amount of (# illegals hired) x (average salary per year for those workers if they were American) = fine. IOW, if you get caught employing 20 illegals, your fine is their yearly salary times 20. Does that bankrupt you? Good.
Second offense: fined in the amount of 3 years of company revenue (not profit), and all owners (if small single owner company) and/or C-level execs (for the big corporations) are personally fined whatever their last 5 years of total compensation in any form. Does that bankrupt you? Good.
Third offense: all assets of the company seized and sold at public auction with the money going to the public treasury. All owners and/or C-level execs are thrown in prison for X number of years, where X is the number of illegals employed. (Small lawn care guy who didn't get the message before and hired 2 illegals? 2 years in jail. Tyson chicken processing plant yet again found employing hundreds of illegals? All the C-level execs of Tyson rot in jail for the rest of their lives.) Anyone who gets out of prison is barred for life from owning or operating any company or business.
Fourth offense: in this unlikely event, public execution.
Of course, this will never happen because companies will bribe the Congressscum to block any such measures. Which is why democracies always devolve into dictatorships, because people get tired of nothing getting done in democracies due to all the competing interest groups. So they put in a dictator (or let one take over) in order to get shit done that needs doing. (I am not advocating dictatorship, only predicting it)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:27PM (2 children)
Also, why not just annex Mexico and be done with it? There's oil down there. And building up a 2nd world nation seems profitable enough for China. honestly you should have done this 2 decades ago instead of pouring money into Afghanistan and the Golf. And what better army is there to conquer Mexico then the Spanish speaking US military?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:30PM
Excellent, if unintentional.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @02:37AM
Don't know your History?
ITYM "annex EVEN MORE OF Mexico".
google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=map+%22.before.the.Mexican.War%22
S/N's comments engine is still broken and strips out e.g. %22 from hyperlinks.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:31PM (12 children)
It's really starting to resemble the Iron Curtain... we're still more open than that, but less and less as time goes on it seems.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @10:57PM
It's not the Iron Curtain, it's more serious than that. The battle lines are being drawn and Tim Pool just debated this. [youtube.com] All because elitist Democrats still want illegal Juanata to clean their bathroom so long after the abolition of slavery instigation of workers rights.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @11:02PM
We're not trying to keep people from leaving. As a matter of fact, I strongly encourage you to leave. Going south is easy:
Just sneak over the border. Don't bother to learn Spanish; the government should provide things in your language. Enroll your kids in school, expecting them to get special Spanish-as-a-second-language classes. Be "undocumented", though actually with fraudulent documentation. Work under the table, or with a stolen identity. Move in with a Mexican or have kids with one, and then use them to get welfare benefits. Show up to protests waving the American flag.
Yeah... see how that works. BTW, guns are banned in Mexico, so you'll be safe from guns.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:11AM (9 children)
Except it is in the wrong direction. Last time I went to TJ, I walked across the border through a one way turnstile no questions asked. Many people were killed trying to leave socialist eastern bloc countries.
According to wikipedia:
It was the country they were leaving from doing the shooting.
A more recent example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKNJ--GHGU [youtube.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:23AM
See also Nazi Germany. Yet the left want people to surrender their guns to a government they constantly compare to Nazis. As illegal immigrants are still leaving their shithole countries for the US in droves. As they attack Trump for calling MS13 animals and play a despicable "think of the children" card over a legal situation the left created. The left has gone full retard when even social liberals like me support Trump rather than leftist insanity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @03:29AM (7 children)
Many people were killed trying to leave socialist eastern bloc countries
First, I have a problem with the plural.
Next, your blockquote mentions only the divided -city- of Berlin.
Additionally, there weren't worker-owned cooperatives[1] in East Berlin; the state controlled everything there and there was no feedback loop from The Workers|the governed.
That's State Capitalism.
[1] The fundamental unit of Socialism.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @08:50AM (3 children)
Ahh, the "not real communism" argument. How original. Mexico now has a socialist president, how long before the "not real communism" trademarks of murder and starvation become evident?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:55AM (2 children)
You're an idiot.
...but you're really good at repeating Lamestream Media's bullshit.
Here, read what an actual Socialist has to say about Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO):
Hint: Socialist == Anti-Capitalist.
(That's -NOT- AMLO.)
Absolutely nothing has been changed in Mexico except the name on the mailbox at the executive mansion.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:44PM
Hint: Ignorance is Strength [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 02 2018, @01:12PM
The mailbox at my White House didn't always say President Donald J. Trump. It used to say Marjorie Merriweather Post. At Mar-A-Lago, my Southern White House. And at my Washington White House, it used to Say President Barack Hussein Obama. As everyone knows. But, we're different guys. We do things a little differently. Right? Trust me, it's more than a little.....
I congratulate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador on becoming the next President of Mexico. I look very much forward to working with him. There are two very big things we need to talk about, the border and trade.
Mexico paying for the Border Wall, so important. Now it can happen. We're building a beautiful Wall. With a big, beautiful door. Andres will be very happy to pay for that one, believe me. Because it's going to be terrific for the Mexican people. It's going to stop all those folks coming up from Central America. Going through Mexico, causing many problems. And it's going to stop a lot of the drugs. Not entirely. They throw 60-pound sacks of drugs over our border, very hard to stop. But it'll be less, believe me. A lot less. And we're going to have a see-through Wall. So when there's a sack of drugs coming at you, you'll know. You'll see it. And you'll be able to duck. It has to be see-through, very important for the safety. And we're making it see-through.
And we need fair trade, not free trade. We need fair trade. It's got to be fair. People say trade war, trade war. I'm talking about a fair war. NAFTA has been a DISASTER. We will either renegotiate it or we will break it. Every agreement has an end. Every agreement has to be fair. And maybe we'll redo NAFTA without Canada. Without Justin from Canada, who's killing us on trade, the dairy and everything else. And call it MAFTA, the Mexico America Fair Trade Agreement. Mexico is taking our jobs. I love the Mexican people. They're great people. The leadership is too smart for our country. But that's about to change (BYE FELICIA!), they're getting a new President, a guy I can work with. That's tremendous. It's absolutely tremendous. There is much to be done that will benefit both the United States and Mexico!!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:35AM (2 children)
That's Communism not Socialism. It's ownership vs. control. In Communism, the government, owns and operates everything. In Socialism, ownership can remain private but government regulations aren't limited to just safety and public health. For instance, say the government owns hospitals and an insurance pool and covers everyone with it as a national health care program. That's communism. Now say the government established a contract and hard caps on coverage and drug costs and tells insurances and hospitals they must participate under those numbers. That's socialism.
Policing and military are currently communist in the US since it's a public service owned and operated by the government. A free market version would be mercenaries being hired when the country is being invaded to defend its borders (without any central command or limit on their methods aside from upholding basic property laws and the like) and private individuals hiring bodyguards when feeling threatened (without any limit on who can provide such services). Infrastructure is currently socialist. Going communist would be for the country to hire and operate the work crews directly. Going free market would be to let people and businesses figure out utilities and transportation on their own.
The real problem the US is ideology. People are emotionally invested in service models regardless of efficiency or viability. The truth is there is no right and wrong here. Just costs. People need healthcare and insurances. A functioning modern nation wouldn't let poor people die in the streets because they can't afford it since it creates social instabilities that harm the economy. That is, housing tanks every few years while the middle class keeps shrinking until there's no one to buy anything but the basic commodities. So, every other nation made sure to create social security - in one form or the next - since it's cheaper in the long run. And the countries that didn't ended up like the US: With failed economies with a few really rich guys and a whole lot of really poor guys.
Currently the US has a trade deficit with just about every other major industrial country: https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264 [thebalance.com] Basically, if they're building stuff, the US is over paying for it. Each of them takes a different approach to the same problems the US is facing. Japan substituted its reliance on immigrants with automation at the cost of heavy investments in automation and social services to deal with huge unemployment and partial employment figures. Germany imports Turks into labor camps and provides similar social services to its people as Japan. China has its own workers but still needs to heavily subsidizes and regulate whole industries to deal with unemployment. Canada is somewhere in between Germany and Japan...
So, putting it altogether and come up with the best, most cost effective strategy comes out with two options: Heavy automation or opening up the borders. But, debate principles as you like, the social services coverage is coming either way. Not because of some principle. But because, like a standing army, once your neighbors have it, you can't afford not to.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:34AM (1 child)
You've invested a great number of words to prove you know nothing about this topic.
Look up "Liberal Democracy".
Hint: It's what you think is "socialism".
Socialism is an ECONOMIC system.
It's possible to discuss Socialism without ever mentioning The State.
I have done that lots of times. [soylentnews.org]
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @11:33AM
Wrong. Liberalism is political and moral philosophy. Libertarianism is a collection of political philosophies and movements. Socialism and Communism are economic and social systems. The fact so many Americans are confusing all of this and trying to apply ideas from philosophy to the economy and government is the kind of naive thinking OP hints to with "The real problem the US is ideology. People are emotionally invested in service models regardless of efficiency or viability...". You're telling me your economic ideas work? Show me the model. Show me a working and tested fiscal and monetary policy that abides to your ideals. Tell me how international trade works when your opposition are leveraging subsidizes against your free market. Run the opposition model and a full game theory match and show me how it all supposed to work.
This Libertarianism / Liberalism nonsense is barely a foot removed from global warming conspiracies. Governments, markets and societies in general don't work like that. They never worked like that. It's not a question of extremes. It's a question of fantasies. We make fun of communists for a failed system. But at least it was a real world system that operated for decades on end. Where did a free, unregulated market ever lasted that long? Sure they were guilty of the same stupid mistake: Letting ideology overwrite per-case considerations. But they still lasted longer than most. And those nuts at North Korea are still there so it at least works in a vacuum. And then there's all the communes that abolished private property... Nut jobs or otherwise, that's still more than the right-wing libs ever accomplished.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ilPapa on Sunday July 01 2018, @11:06PM (7 children)
It's only a matter of time. ICE was formed to keep dangerous criminals out of the country, and instead they've become a miitarized deportation force. They go to fields where immigrants are picking fruit to demand documents. Like someone who's going to be picking fruit in 90 degree weather is going to be carrying their documents on them. They're sweeping up brown people and leaving the thousands of criminals who come here illegally from Eastern Europe and Russia alone. Every major city now has a Russian mob made up of these animals.
And the worst part is that ICE is under the jurisdiction of no American court. They only answer to the President. ICE is the deepest of the Deep State. They are the American Gestapo and need to be de-funded immediately. They were only formed in the hysteria after 9/11. They need to be gone.
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @11:17PM (4 children)
Utter bullshit, stop supporting modern day slavery!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @01:07AM (3 children)
Amen, brother!
Socialism: The collective ownership of the means of production by The Workers.
Take away the means of production from the Capitalist exploiters of labor and hand it over to The Workers.[1]
What's that? That's not what you meant?
Hmmm.
[1] BTW, you nitwits who stupidly use the term "Hard Left" to describe the Dumbocrats, THIS is what is meant by "Hard Left".
(It involves the term "at gunpoint"--similarly to how the Capitalists took it in the previous transfer of wealth).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @08:57AM (2 children)
Show us a single example of a functioning socialist state.
Under capitalism. man exploits man. Under communism, the opposite is true.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:24AM (1 child)
That's an oxymoron.
You're spouting Cold War bullshit.
The opposite of Socialism is NOT Democracy.
The opposite of Socialism is Capitalism.
Those 2 are ECONOMIC systems and are on the HORIZONTAL axis of the "political" palate.
It is completely possible to talk about that axis without mentioning The State.
(I do it all the time, mentioning the Mondragon worker-owned cooperative.)
GOVERNMENTAL systems are on the other (VERTICAL) axis with dictatorship at the top edge and anarchy at the bottom edge.
Liberal Democracy (AKA tax and redistribute; what a lot of uneducated bozos call "socialism") is in the middle area.
It's easy to spot the poorly informed in the crowd.
They repeat propagandistic bullshit they've heard on Lamestream Media instead of thinking outside the (idiot) box.
They get the 2 axes confused and call Socialism a governmental system.
People who think Democracy is the opposite of Socialism are simply idiots.
Capitalism can and does exist under the most repressive of regimes.
Socialism can only exist where there is Democracy.
Socialism is Democracy extended to the workplace AKA Democracy Everywhere).
If you're not mentioning the workplace in your description, you're talking about -something-, but it's not Socialism.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @11:15AM
Yes it is, history proves the point.
Then how do you enforce it?
Stupidity is democracy extended to the outcome of competitive sports, the revenue generating function of the market (free exchange) is already democratic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @05:41AM (1 child)
Even if they were naked, they could hang the ID from their neck.
Seriously, why would you leave your license at home? You'll need it to drive there, you know you'll need it for ICE, and you'll need it to get a beer or pack of cigarettes on the way home. Unless maybe you were wandering out to fetch the newspaper in your pajamas, or you're a kid subject to child labor laws, you'll have your ID.
Even the non-drivers have ID. They still buy beer and cigarettes. (Is that a racist ID requirement?) They still need to prove eligibility for work. In nearly every nation and in many states, you'll need it to vote. Blind people get ID. Kids often get ID. My daughter got a state ID card when she was 11.
There are of course some biometric alternatives if you want to encourage naked fruit picking. Kuwait solved the problem by recording the DNA of every person in the country, including all visitors as they arrive. How is that? ICE shows up at the farm, samples everybody's DNA, runs a quick scan while they go back to work, and determines the truth. Good? I'm thinking you know the truth: these are criminals who need to be deported, and you just don't want the USA to continue as a nation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @08:13AM
Because your American boss will point his gun at you telling you to give him your ID so you work for him for half price or get deported.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by jelizondo on Sunday July 01 2018, @11:37PM (6 children)
Two things struck me looking at the pictures. One, the old pictures clearly show customs/immigration officers doing their job and two, when names are given, they are like “Guillermo Reza” or “Margarita Anaya”.
On the first topic, try today taking a picture anywhere near a customs/immigration office, let alone of the officers. I don’t know for sure, but I’ll bet you’ll be in jail promptly. (Aren’t they public servants and we should be able to take their pictures doing their job?)
Now, the names. Hispanic names. Not Anglo. So the difference between one guy trying to get in (legally or not) and the guy already in the US is simply some piece of paper. If they (Mexicans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, whatever) are pure evil, why are some of them guarding the fucking border? I’ll tell you, they are people; not much different from you or me.
Back when I was a young one, people who smoked pot were always characterized as violent criminals. Because I have always have friends who smoke pot (or smoked, some are gone), I knew it was a lie, they are not violent criminals. Because I know many Mexicans, Cubans, Colombians and what not, I know they are not violent criminals. They are people, pure and simple.
Yep, some bad apples are to be found. But that is true of any group of people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 01 2018, @11:41PM
God knows why citizens in Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Monica may have Spanish surnames. Look - 45% of 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanic immigrants in some districts voted for Trump because of the immigration issue. There's legal immigration and illegal immigration, the latter illegal for good reasons.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Monday July 02 2018, @12:43AM
Not necessarily.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=immigration+first+amendment+audit [youtube.com]
I haven't sought out these kinds of First Amendment audits specifically (they have probably increased a lot in the last few months), but I assume that most vids consist of clueless security guards confronting photographers on public roads, but backing off, with a few instances of people being "detained", and then the rare bogus arrest or two. It certainly isn't "start filming, go directly to jail" unless there are cowardly tyrants on the scene.
The great NewsNowHouston channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC39jLNl2UpxDeYVYCToA56A/videos [youtube.com]
Basically, look up First Amendment audits and you'll see a community of people testing their right to record public officials all over the place. Customs, border crossings, federal buildings, police stations, etc. Or the right to record private buildings from a public street, which also triggers clueless private security guards. When this has been tested in court, it usually goes well for the auditor (see Turner v. Driver [soylentnews.org], and here's his 1A audit playlist [youtube.com]).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday July 02 2018, @07:42AM (3 children)
Oh, aren't you on to something [economist.com]. The whole "invasion" thing is a very anti-ethnic common propaganda tool since time immemorial.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:00AM (2 children)
It only we could ask the Neanderthals how the whole multiculturalism thing worked out for them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:32PM (1 child)
It worked out well for USA! Just make sure you do it normally and not like Germany where they discourage Asians to come and instead focus on Syrian refugees.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 02 2018, @01:19PM
I'll tell you what, I think I might have more Indian blood than a lot of the so-called Indians that are trying to open up the reservations. I looked at one of them -- well, I won’t go into the whole story, but I can tell you, I said to him, "I think I have more Indian blood in me than you have in you." And he laughed at me and he sort of acknowledged that I was right. But it’s a joke. It’s really a joke.
Connecticut, I think if you’ve ever been up there, you would truly say that these are not Indians. One of them was telling me his name is Chief Running Water Sitting Bull. And I said, "that’s a long name." He said, "well, just call me Ricky Sanders." So this is one of the Indians.
(Score: 2) by chewbacon on Monday July 02 2018, @02:30AM (1 child)
When I was a kid, my grandmother took me on a bunch of road trips with her. A few were to New Mexico where we'd get stopped at the interdiction checkpoints around El Paso. One time the agent asked, "Are you a citizen of the United States?" She said, "Yes, sir," and started to drive off, then stopped short and said, "If Florida is still a state!" She cackled and drove off.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @06:16AM
Behold: the masters' hubris, breeding ground for festering resentment