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posted by martyb on Friday September 14 2018, @09:55AM   Printer-friendly
from the now-searching-for-a-job dept.

Senior Google Scientist Resigns Over "Forfeiture of Our Values" in China

A senior Google research scientist has quit the company in protest over its plan to launch a censored version of its search engine in China.

Jack Poulson worked for Google's research and machine intelligence department, where he was focused on improving the accuracy of the company's search systems. In early August, Poulson raised concerns with his managers at Google after The Intercept revealed that the internet giant was secretly developing a Chinese search app for Android devices. The search system, code-named Dragonfly, was designed to remove content that China's authoritarian government views as sensitive, such as information about political dissidents, free speech, democracy, human rights, and peaceful protest.

After entering into discussions with his bosses, Poulson decided in mid-August that he could no longer work for Google. He tendered his resignation and his last day at the company was August 31.

He told The Intercept in an interview that he believes he is one of about five of the company's employees to resign over Dragonfly. He felt it was his "ethical responsibility to resign in protest of the forfeiture of our public human rights commitments," he said.

Poulson, who was previously an assistant professor at Stanford University's department of mathematics, said he believed that the China plan had violated Google's artificial intelligence principles, which state that the company will not design or deploy technologies "whose purpose contravenes widely accepted principles of international law and human rights."

He said that he was concerned not just about the censorship itself, but also the ramifications of hosting customer data on the Chinese mainland, where it would be accessible to Chinese security agencies that are well-known for targeting political activists and journalists.

In his resignation letter, Poulson told his bosses: "Due to my conviction that dissent is fundamental to functioning democracies, I am forced to resign in order to avoid contributing to, or profiting from, the erosion of protection for dissidents."

"I view our intent to capitulate to censorship and surveillance demands in exchange for access to the Chinese market as a forfeiture of our values and governmental negotiating position across the globe," he wrote, adding: "There is an all-too-real possibility that other nations will attempt to leverage our actions in China in order to demand our compliance with their security demands."

Are the ~5 resignations indicative of fierce internal opposition or beleaguered acquiescence within Google?

Previously: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal
Uproar at Google after News of Censored China Search App Breaks

Related: About a Dozen Google Employees Have Resigned Over Project Maven
"Don't be Evil" Disappearing From Google's Code of Conduct
Google Will Not Continue Project Maven After Contract Expires in 2019
Google Boots Open Source Anti-Censorship Tool From Chrome Store


Original Submission

Related Stories

About a Dozen Google Employees Have Resigned Over Project Maven 70 comments

Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

It's been nearly three months since many Google employees—and the public—learned about the company's decision to provide artificial intelligence to a controversial military pilot program known as Project Maven, which aims to speed up analysis of drone footage by automatically classifying images of objects and people. Now, about a dozen Google employees are resigning in protest over the company's continued involvement in Maven.

[...] The employees who are resigning in protest, several of whom discussed their decision to leave with Gizmodo, say that executives have become less transparent with their workforce about controversial business decisions and seem less interested in listening to workers' objections than they once did. In the case of Maven, Google is helping the Defense Department implement machine learning to classify images gathered by drones. But some employees believe humans, not algorithms, should be responsible for this sensitive and potentially lethal work—and that Google shouldn't be involved in military work at all.

Previously: Google vs Maven
Google Employees on Pentagon AI Algorithms: "Google Should Not be in the Business of War"


Original Submission

"Don't be Evil" Disappearing From Google's Code of Conduct 69 comments

A number of soylentils have written in to let us know that Google is opening up the possibility of being evil by eliminating it from their code of conduct. You've been warned.

"Don't be Evil" Starting to Disappear From Google's Code of Conduct

Google Removes 'Don't Be Evil' Clause From Its Code of Conduct

Google's unofficial motto has long been the simple phrase "don't be evil." But that's over, according to the code of conduct that Google distributes to its employees. The phrase was removed sometime in late April or early May, archives hosted by the Wayback Machine show.

[...] The updated version of Google's code of conduct still retains one reference to the company's unofficial motto—the final line of the document is still: "And remember... don't be evil, and if you see something that you think isn't right – speak up!"

April 21 vs. May 4.

Related: Google vs Maven
Google Employees on Pentagon AI Algorithms: "Google Should Not be in the Business of War"
Google Duplex: an AI that Can Make Phone Calls on Your Behalf
About a Dozen Google Employees Have Resigned Over Project Maven

Google Will Not Continue Project Maven After Contract Expires in 2019 19 comments

We have recently covered the fact that some Google employees had resigned because of the company's involvement in an AI-related weapons project called Maven. Many thought that the resignations, whilst being a noble gesture, would amount to nothing - but we were wrong...

Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Lucrative Military Drone AI Work To Grow Exponentially

Google has sought to quash the internal dissent in conversations with employees. Diane Greene, the chief executive of Google’s cloud business unit, speaking at a company town hall meeting following the revelations, claimed that the contract was “only” for $9 million, according to the New York Times, a relatively minor project for such a large company.

Internal company emails obtained by The Intercept tell a different story. The September emails show that Google’s business development arm expected the military drone artificial intelligence revenue to ramp up from an initial $15 million to an eventual $250 million per year.

In fact, one month after news of the contract broke, the Pentagon allocated an additional $100 million to Project Maven.

The internal Google email chain also notes that several big tech players competed to win the Project Maven contract. Other tech firms such as Amazon were in the running, one Google executive involved in negotiations wrote. (Amazon did not respond to a request for comment.) Rather than serving solely as a minor experiment for the military, Google executives on the thread stated that Project Maven was “directly related” to a major cloud computing contract worth billions of dollars that other Silicon Valley firms are competing to win.

However, Google has had a major rethink.

Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal 28 comments

Google is planning to launch a censored version of its search engine in China that will blacklist websites and search terms about human rights, democracy, religion, and peaceful protest, The Intercept can reveal.

The project – code-named Dragonfly – has been underway since spring of last year, and accelerated following a December 2017 meeting between Google's CEO Sundar Pichai and a top Chinese government official, according to internal Google documents and people familiar with the plans.

Teams of programmers and engineers at Google have created a custom Android app, different versions of which have been named "Maotai" and "Longfei." The app has already been demonstrated to the Chinese government; the finalized version could be launched in the next six to nine months, pending approval from Chinese officials.

Or does it not? China denies google's plans for a censored version

[...] Chinese state-owned Securities Times, however, said reports of the return of Google's search engine to China were not true, citing information from "relevant departments".

But a Google employee familiar with the censored version of the search engine confirmed to Reuters that the project was alive and genuine.

On an internal message board, the employee wrote: "In my opinion, it is just as bad as the leak article mentions."


Original Submission

Uproar at Google after News of Censored China Search App Breaks 53 comments

iTWire:

Only a few of the search behemoth's 88,000 workers were briefed on the project before The Intercept reported on 1 August that Google had plans to launch a censored mobile search app for the Chinese market, with no access to sites about human rights, democracy, religion or peaceful protest.

The customised Android search app, with different versions known as Maotai and Longfei, was said to have been demonstrated to Chinese Government authorities.

In a related development, six US senators from both parties were reported to have sent a letter to Google chief executive Sundar Pichai, demanding an explanation over the company's move.

One source inside Google, who witnessed the backlash from employees after news of the plan was reported, told The Intercept: "Everyone's access to documents got turned off, and is being turned on [on a] document-by-document basis.

"There's been total radio silence from leadership, which is making a lot of people upset and scared. ... Our internal meme site and Google Plus are full of talk, and people are a.n.g.r.y."


Original Submission

Google Boots Open Source Anti-Censorship Tool From Chrome Store 26 comments

A browser extension that acted as an anti-censorship tool for 185,000 people has been kicked out of the Chrome store by Google. The open source Ahoy! tool facilitated access to more than 1,700 blocked sites but is now under threat. Despite several requests, Google has provided no reason for its decision.

Last December, TF reported on SitesBloqueados (Blocked Sites) a web portal run by Revolução dos Bytes (Bytes' Revolution), a group of anti-censorship activists in Portugal.

Internet censorship is common in the country, with more than 1,700 sites banned from regular Internet access for reasons ranging from copyright to gambling. The process does not require intervention from the courts so Revolução dos Bytes decided to keep an eye on things with its Ahoy! Chrome and Firefox extension.

"Ahoy! basically bypasses any traffic to a blocked site through our own proxies, allowing the users to navigate in a free, uncensored internet," team member Henrique Mouta previously told TF.

Not only is Ahoy! able to unblock sites, it can also detect newly blocked domains and feed information back, so that its unblocking abilities are always up to date.

Things had been going well. After servicing 100,000 users last December, Ahoy! grew to almost 185,000 users this year. However, progress and indeed the project itself is now under threat after arbitrary action by Google.

"Google decided to remove us from Chrome's Web Store without any justification", Henrique informs TF.

"We always make sure our code is high quality, secure and 100% free (as in beer and as in freedom). All the source code is open source. And we're pretty sure we never broke any of the Google's marketplace rules."


Original Submission

Politics: Google CEO Sundar Pichai Testifies before the U.S. Congress 61 comments

Google's Sundar Pichai was grilled on privacy, data collection, and China during congressional hearing

Google's CEO testified before the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday where lawmakers grilled him on a wide range of issues, including potential political bias on its platforms, its plans for a censored search app in China and its privacy practices.

This is the first time Pichai has appeared before Congress since Google declined to send him or Alphabet CEO Larry Page to a hearing on foreign election meddling earlier this year. That slight sparked anger among senators who portrayed Google as trying to skirt scrutiny.

[...] Tuesday's hearing was titled "Transparency & Accountability: Examining Google and its Data Collection, Use, and Filtering Practices" and many representatives posed questions on whether or not Google's search results were biased against conservative points of view.

[...] Another topic that came up multiple times was Google's plan to launch a censored search engine in China. The Intercept first reported details of the project over the summer, which would block search results for queries that the Chinese government deemed sensitive, like "human rights" and "student protest" and link users' searches to their personal phone numbers. [...] "Right now, we have no plans to launch search in China," Pichai answered, adding that access to information is "an important human right."

Also at Bloomberg and The Hill.

See also: Sundar Pichai had to explain to Congress why Googling 'idiot' turns up pictures of Trump
Google CEO admits company must better address the spread of conspiracy theories on YouTube
Alex Jones, Roger Stone crash Google CEO hearing
Monopoly man watches disapprovingly as Congress yells at Google's CEO

Previously: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal
Uproar at Google after News of Censored China Search App Breaks
"Senior Google Scientist" Resigns over Chinese Search Engine Censorship Project
Google Suppresses Internal Memo About China Censorship; Eric Schmidt Predicts Internet Split
Leaked Transcript Contradicts Google's Denials About Censored Chinese Search Engine
Senators Demand Answers About Google+ Breach; Project Dragonfly Undermines Google's Neutrality


Original Submission

Lawsuit: Google Employees Were Fired for Upholding "Don’t be Evil" Code 65 comments

Lawsuit: Google employees were fired for upholding “Don’t be evil” code:

Three former Google software engineers who sued the company yesterday claim they were fired for following Google's famous "Don't be evil" mantra.

"Google terminated each plaintiffs' employment with it for adhering to the directive 'Don't be evil' and calling out activity by Google that they each believed betrayed that directive," according to the complaint filed in Santa Clara County Superior Court by Rebecca Rivers, Sophie Waldman, and Paul Duke. The ex-employees say Google falsely blamed them for a data leak after they circulated an internal petition.

The lawsuit notes that the Google Code of Conduct "that each full-time Google employee is required to sign as a condition of employment" specifically instructs them not to be evil. The ex-employees say they tried to uphold the "Don't be evil" policy in August 2019 by circulating a petition "requesting that Google affirm that it would not collaborate with CBP [US Customs and Border Protection] or ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] with respect to enforcement of the Trump border control policies."

"[E]ach plaintiff protested Google's engagement in supporting BCP policies that resulted in separation of families and 'caging' of immigrants who were seeking asylum in the United States," the complaint said.

Google's firings of Rivers, Waldman, and Duke are also part of an ongoing case in which the National Labor Relations Board filed a complaint against Google.

Previously:
(2018-10-13) Google Leak: The Good Censor
(2018-09-14) "Senior Google Scientist" Resigns over Chinese Search Engine Censorship Project
(2018-05-19) "Don't be Evil" Disappearing From Google's Code of Conduct


Original Submission

Google Suppresses Internal Memo About China Censorship; Eric Schmidt Predicts Internet Split 41 comments

Google has been aggressively suppressing an internal memo that shared details of Dragonfly, a censored search engine for China that would also track users:

Google bosses have forced employees to delete a confidential memo circulating inside the company that revealed explosive details about a plan to launch a censored search engine in China, The Intercept has learned. The memo, authored by a Google engineer who was asked to work on the project, disclosed that the search system, codenamed Dragonfly, would require users to log in to perform searches, track their location — and share the resulting history with a Chinese partner who would have "unilateral access" to the data.

The memo was shared earlier this month among a group of Google employees who have been organizing internal protests over the censored search system, which has been designed to remove content that China's authoritarian Communist Party regime views as sensitive, such as information about democracy, human rights, and peaceful protest.

According to three sources familiar with the incident, Google leadership discovered the memo and were furious that secret details about the China censorship were being passed between employees who were not supposed to have any knowledge about it. Subsequently, Google human resources personnel emailed employees who were believed to have accessed or saved copies of the memo and ordered them to immediately delete it from their computers. Emails demanding deletion of the memo contained "pixel trackers" that notified human resource managers when their messages had been read, recipients determined.

[...] Google reportedly maintains an aggressive security and investigation team known as "stopleaks," which is dedicated to preventing unauthorized disclosures. The team is also said to monitor internal discussions. Internal security efforts at Google have ramped up this year as employees have raised ethical concerns around a range of new company projects. Following the revelation by Gizmodo and The Intercept that Google had quietly begun work on a contract with the military last year, known as Project Maven, to develop automated image recognition systems for drone warfare, the communications team moved swiftly to monitor employee activity. The "stopleaks" team, which coordinates with the internal Google communications department, even began monitoring an internal image board used to post messages based on internet memes, according to one former Google employee, for signs of employee sentiment around the Project Maven contract.

Eric Schmidt has predicted that there will be two distinct "Internets" within the decade, with one led by China:

Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible? 35 comments

Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

When a news article revealed that Clarifai was working with the Pentagon and some employees questioned the ethics of building artificial intelligence that analyzed video captured by drones, the company said the project would save the lives of civilians and soldiers.

"Clarifai's mission is to accelerate the progress of humanity with continually improving A.I.," read a blog post from Matt Zeiler, the company's founder and chief executive, and a prominent A.I. researcher. Later, in a news media interview, Mr. Zeiler announced a new management position that would ensure all company projects were ethically sound.

As activists, researchers, and journalists voice concerns over the rise of artificial intelligence, warning against biased, deceptive and malicious applications, the companies building this technology are responding. From tech giants like Google and Microsoft to scrappy A.I. start-ups, many are creating corporate principles meant to ensure their systems are designed and deployed in an ethical way. Some set up ethics officers or review boards to oversee these principles.

But tensions continue to rise as some question whether these promises will ultimately be kept. Companies can change course. Idealism can bow to financial pressure. Some activists — and even some companies — are beginning to argue that the only way to ensure ethical practices is through government regulation.

"We don't want to see a commercial race to the bottom," Brad Smith, Microsoft's president and chief legal officer, said at the New Work Summit in Half Moon Bay, Calif., hosted last week by The New York Times. "Law is needed."

Possible != Probable. And the "needed law" could come in the form of a ban and/or surveillance of coding and hardware-building activities.

Related:


Original Submission

Leaked Transcript Contradicts Google's Denials About Censored Chinese Search Engine 31 comments

Leaked Transcript of Private Meeting Contradicts Google's Official Story on China

"We have to be focused on what we want to enable," said Ben Gomes, Google's search engine chief. "And then when the opening happens, we are ready for it." It was Wednesday, July 18, and Gomes was addressing a team of Google employees who were working on a secretive project to develop a censored search engine for China, which would blacklist phrases like "human rights," "student protest," and "Nobel Prize."

"You have taken on something extremely important to the company," Gomes declared, according to a transcript of his comments obtained by The Intercept. "I have to admit it has been a difficult journey. But I do think a very important and worthwhile one. And I wish ourselves the best of luck in actually reaching our destination as soon as possible." [...] Gomes, who joined Google in 1999 and is one of the key engineers behind the company's search engine, said he hoped the censored Chinese version of the platform could be launched within six and nine months, but it could be sooner. "This is a world none of us have ever lived in before," he said. "So I feel like we shouldn't put too much definite into the timeline."

[...] Google has refused to answer questions or concerns about Dragonfly. On Sept. 26, a Google executive faced public questions on the censorship plan for the first time. Keith Enright told the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee that there "is a Project Dragonfly," but said "we are not close to launching a product in China." When pressed to give specific details, Enright refused, saying that he was "not clear on the contours of what is in scope or out of scope for that project."

Senior executives at Google directly involved in building the censorship system have largely avoided any public scrutiny. But on Sept. 23, Gomes briefly addressed Dragonfly when confronted by a BBC reporter at an event celebrating Google's 20th anniversary. "Right now, all we've done is some exploration," Gomes told the reporter, "but since we don't have any plans to launch something, there's nothing much I can say about it." Gomes' statement kept with the company's official line. But it flatly contradicted what he had privately told Google employees who were working on Dragonfly — which disturbed some of them. One Google source told The Intercept Gomes's comments to the BBC were "bullshit."

Here's an article written by Dave Lee, the BBC reporter that Ben Gomes misled.

Previously: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal
Uproar at Google after News of Censored China Search App Breaks
"Senior Google Scientist" Resigns over Chinese Search Engine Censorship Project
Google Suppresses Internal Memo About China Censorship; Eric Schmidt Predicts Internet Split


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @11:00AM (15 children)

    Are the ~5 resignations indicative of fierce internal opposition or beleaguered acquiescence within Google?

    The latter or there would have been more than five. Which is really quite interesting to me. The exact same folks who put ideology over a coworker's job, chasing out a guy for being 100% factually correct but 0% politically correct, are throwing ideology out the window when it comes to their own jobs.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:08AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:08AM (#734773)

      If it's the same guy we're both thinking of, they actually fired him for shitting all over the company message boards. Nothing else.

      Anyway, back on topic...

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @11:15AM (2 children)

        When you ask someone something and they respond with a well researched and absolutely factually correct answer, you don't get to accuse them of shitting all over the message boards and retain any shred of credibility.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 4, Touché) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @11:58AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @11:58AM (#734793) Journal
          Well, they had to accuse him of something in order to fire him.
        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 17 2018, @10:16AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 17 2018, @10:16AM (#735911)

          Looks like SN has the same problem.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:18PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:18PM (#734831)

        Who is shitting over the message boards? The guy who posted his paper, or the sea of haters sending "fuck you!"s or "as a manager, I'll order my subjects to not work with you!"s?

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 14 2018, @05:58PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday September 14 2018, @05:58PM (#734938) Journal

          None of them are appropriate for work.

          Grow the fuck up and get back to work.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @08:08PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @08:08PM (#735023)

            So all of them should have been fired, and not just the one guy?

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday September 14 2018, @12:00PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @12:00PM (#734794) Journal
      I think we also have to keep in mind that there's a great deal of secrecy here. Could become a jump the shark moment for Google once the program comes fully to light.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:24PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:24PM (#734918)

      Which 100% factually correct statement are you talking about?

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @12:28PM (30 children)

    by VLM (445) on Friday September 14 2018, @12:28PM (#734800)

    China's authoritarian government views as sensitive, such as information about political dissidents, free speech, democracy, human rights, and peaceful protest.

    So its exactly the same stuff leftists want to censor in the USA. How many Chinese watch Alex Jones anyway?

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PiMuNu on Friday September 14 2018, @12:54PM (29 children)

      by PiMuNu (3823) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @12:54PM (#734805)

      > So its exactly the same stuff leftists want to censor in the USA.

      Do you have a justification for that statement?

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @01:57PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @01:57PM (#734818)

        It is VLM, the serious version of Ethanol Fueled. Safer to ignore the crazy bastard.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @07:57PM (4 children)

          EF's a tiny bit more insightful but gives a lot less of a shit. He don't consider responding to most folks with any seriousness worth his time.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @10:00PM (3 children)

            by VLM (445) on Friday September 14 2018, @10:00PM (#735097)

            I wouldn't disagree much. His posts are more interesting to read; I still have a residual habit of "if only I prove to them their religious beliefs are irrational, that'll give me the root password to un-brainwash them" which is usually a waste of time although sometimes entertaining.

            Most of my interactions with the left are along the pattern of "I believe I'm holier than thou because of my steadfast belief in (some irrational stuff having no scientific relationship to the real world)" "(proven irrational, LOL)" "General sophistry along the lines of fuck you you are evil nazi hatefacts need book burning party punch a nazi my religious belief is stronger than mere reality" etc.

            Also I clearly type faster than him, this comes out at 100 wpm unedited, whereas he's more a "brevity is the source of wit" type of poster.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday September 14 2018, @10:07PM (2 children)

              Yup, it takes practice to stop yourself from trying to help folks out by making them less horribly wrong in nearly every way.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:05PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @11:05PM (#735132)

                Yall are some delusional motherfuckers.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 15 2018, @12:47AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 15 2018, @12:47AM (#735170)

                  The crazy part is I read the OIG report, the house committee report, related fbi indictments, and they all support Trump's story... Hilary Clinton campaign was up to some illegal shit in addition to her campaign "colluding with russia" (even worse, she got trolled by them), but all the people at intelligence agencies wanted her to win for whatever reason so they said "no reasonable prosecute would follow up on this" and such and then started spying on Trump and trying to set him up as an "insurance" strategy. In the process all sorts of illegal stuff was done, who knows how high it goes either.

                  The only thing that doesn't support this is a bunch of anonymous sources telling cnn and friends stuff that they repeat over and over. Thats the usual strategy to brainwash people who don't look into it (which will be most people, and there is nothing wrong with that). I am really at the point of deciding to vote for republicans over this, and fuck republicans and democrats. I've never voted for either before.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:27PM (21 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:27PM (#734834)

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/09/12/reddit-bans-r-greatawakening-the-main-subreddit-for-qanon-conspiracy-theorists/ [washingtonpost.com]

        I read that site (mostly for entertainment, but sometimes interesting info was pointed out) and there was zero violence promoted. In fact the theory there was always that anyone promoting violence in the name of "Q" would be a false flag so people were exceptionally careful about it there.

        The ban was 100% political censorship, which reddit is totally free to do, its just one more step down their path to obsolescence. Anyway, you can see the type of stuff that was being discussed here:

        https://voat.co/v/GreatAwakening [voat.co]
        https://voat.co/v/theawakening [voat.co]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:56PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @02:56PM (#734852)

          Reddit tolerated a lot of shit for a long time and refused to ban subs. Somehow i just cant believe your claims of innocence. Either way reddit is a shithole so whatever.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 14 2018, @03:01PM (8 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @03:01PM (#734854) Journal

          Sign in and use a username, coward. What's the matter, are you afraid of getting doxxed?

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:15PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:15PM (#734860)

            Why? Nothing to be gained, and more to lose, by posting with a name on an informal news site.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:27PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:27PM (#734868)

            Are you planning on doxing all non-ACs or something?

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:44PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @03:44PM (#734872)

            What's the matter, afraid someone might post something you disagree with and not have a username and post history you can aggressively comb through?

            The only coward here is you. If SoylentNews has a problem with Anonymous posting, they can disable the feature. They can even just straight up integrate it with Facebook so you can all post with pictures of yourselves next to your comments.

            As long as Anonymous commenting is a usable feature here, it will be used. So quit your bitching and figure out how to argue against a point instead of a person.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @04:12PM (#734878)

              Woooooosh

            • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday September 14 2018, @04:46PM (3 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 14 2018, @04:46PM (#734896) Journal

              Aaaaand there goes the point zooming over your tiny head at a leisurely Mach 3.4...

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:50PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:50PM (#734932)

                What was the point?

                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:11PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:11PM (#734979)

                  The point was Azuma is a moron who responds to everything with non sequitur, and wants everyone else to post with accounts so they can look just as stupid as he does.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:17PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:17PM (#734916)

          Here is the relevant quote for you

          “We are very clear in our site terms of service that posting content that incites violence, disseminates personal information, or harasses will get users and communities banned from Reddit."

          So it didn't have to be inciting actual violence. Passing personal info to doxx people is quite common amongst that crowd, along with harassing users and brigading in other subreddits to draw attention to themselves. I don't much care for Reddit, but as a massively popular website I 100% understand why they would go this route. Not only to promote a better community but also to prevent future liability.

          Whine about hypocrisy all you want, but I'll take a page from Uggo's book and say "tits or GTFO".

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:47PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @05:47PM (#734931)

            Passing personal info to doxx people is quite common amongst that crowd, along with harassing users and brigading in other subreddits to draw attention to themselves.

            Who is "that crowd"? "That crowd" is obsessed with false flags, literally everything is a false flag to them. They considered telling people not to do anything that looked like inciting violence, doxing, etc defending against a false flag and were quick to accuse anyone who tried as a false flagger. I've never seen a community more actively against that stuff.

            The point is anyone can join any reddit community and start doing this to get it banned... reddit has basically opened themselves up to a form of swatting. Unless the mods werent deleting those posts, or dealing with the issue in whatever way they are expected to, then there's no reason to blame the subreddit.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:20PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:20PM (#734943)

              The angry white males crowd that tend to populate such places. Since I never frequented the subreddit myself I can not speak from authority just statistical likelihood. Trump defenders tend to have a very narrow demographic.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:33PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @06:33PM (#734953)

                Seemed to be a lot of "older" (40+) women actually. Actually the only "Q person" I have ever met in person was an older woman.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:06PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @07:06PM (#734976)

          Yaaa, conspiracy bullshit wrapped up in a nice racist blanket. Not exactly winning material there, and I can imagine how awful the comments sections were under those stories.

          Humanity is shedding its tolerance for racism. It is a BIG hurdle but we'll get there. Too bad all the actually interesting informative articles are caught up in that shit storm, which would make sense from a false flag point of view, but then you should band together and moderate with a heavy hand. But for some reason the racist shitposting just never seems to get banned on subs like that. Hmmmmm

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:19PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:19PM (#735070)

            Probably the same women who smear shit and blood all over the bathroom walls.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:48PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @09:48PM (#735090)

              Found the angry white male!

              Muh uppreshun! Muh rightz! TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

              GIGO4EVA

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @10:20PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 14 2018, @10:20PM (#735108)

                Huh, I was saying thats who was on the Q anon reddit. It really is mostly grandmas.

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @10:16PM

          by VLM (445) on Friday September 14 2018, @10:16PM (#735104)

          The ban was 100% political censorship, which reddit is totally free to do, its just one more step down their path to obsolescence.

          Wow thats crazy. Admittedly Reddit is a safe space for mentally ill and lots and lots and lots of pr0n. Its not a "everyman" discussion site like here or 4chan or voat, its only for nudie pix and crazy snowflakes.

          The Qanon stuff is a lot like Trump support itself, in that you just have to look at the quality of the opposition to know its worth supporting.

          Flat earth people are even more "wrong" than qanon people, therefore qanon getting banned is practically an admission of guilt that qanon stuff is true. Its a crazy shitty society like 80s USSR where stuff is untrusted unless low quality people are censoring it.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by VLM on Friday September 14 2018, @09:54PM

        by VLM (445) on Friday September 14 2018, @09:54PM (#735095)

        Do you have a justification for that statement?

        Eh, the sophistry of "citation needed".

        How bout "The sun rises in the East"

  • (Score: 2) by Lester on Friday September 14 2018, @06:47PM (2 children)

    by Lester (6231) on Friday September 14 2018, @06:47PM (#734959) Journal

    By 1950, When USA decided to develop the H Bomb, Oppenheimer opposed, so Eduard Teller was became the leader of the project. Einstein didn't know about H bomb until Oppenheimer told him. Einstein said "Scientific community must stop this". Openheimer annoyed replied "What Scientific community? H Bomb is Eduard Teller's project, a wonderful challenge. It is his beloved son".

    All that speeches about not using AI for weapons makes me laugh. There will always be enough people, brilliant people, to do it. Whenever there is a new technology, it will be used for military. In fact, it is military who usually push the bleeding edge of every technology.

    The worms are out of the can... as usual.

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