family-finds-hidden-camera-in-airbnb-smoke-alarm
A New Zealand family was shocked to find a camera hidden in the smoke alarm of their Airbnb during a vacation in Ireland, which the father of the clan discovered as he was connecting his cell phone to the Wi-Fi.
[...] "He scanned that device's ports and found the live video feed. We were all watching ourselves on his mobile phone," Barker said of the horrifying find. The camera offered a view of the living room, dining and kitchen area.
Related:
How to Scan Your Airbnb for Hidden Cameras
Should we be searching for hidden spy cameras in Airbnbs and hotels?
[This seems to be an ongoing issue for Airbnb. Have other Soylentils used the platform, and if so have you found hidden monitoring devices? - Ed]
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Airbnb bans 'party houses' after five die in Halloween shooting
Airbnb has said it will ban "party houses" after a mass shooting at a California home rented through the company left five people dead.
CEO Brian Chesky said in a tweet the company would take steps to "combat unauthorized parties and get rid of abusive host and guest conduct". "We must do better, and we will. This is unacceptable," Mr Chesky added.
Three people died at the house, in the city of Orinda, near San Francisco, and two more died later in hospital. The house was reportedly booked under a pretence for a small group, before being publicised on Instagram as the venue for a Halloween party which eventually drew a crowd of more than 100 people. The host did not authorise the party, Airbnb said.
[...] Mr Chesky said Airbnb would create a dedicated "party house" rapid response team and expand manual screening of high-risk reservations. The company, which is expected to float on the stock market in 2020, would also take action against users who violated its policies, he said.
See also: Here's Why Airbnb's Latest Losses Won't Necessarily Hurt Its 2020 IPO
Related: Airbnb is Suing NYC to Keep From Sharing Host Data
Family Finds Hidden Camera in Airbnb's Smoke Alarm
Airbnb Host? Don't Pay Business Taxes? City Digs Up Your Sewer and Water.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @07:48PM
Family decides to stay in stranger's house, conversely guy lets strange family live in his house. It is unregulated, unprotected and (if you come into the political eye) good for a prison term if you are the offerer. Would you be a hitchhiker or pick one up?
And so you have creeps watching cams they have installed in their house on one hand, and buttsex orgy porno productions filmed on your couch on the other hand.
In this case it even seems like the cameras were installed for the owner's protection. I didn't read that there were cameras in the bathrooms and bedrooms, only in the common areas of the house.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 14 2019, @07:49PM (8 children)
Property owners do have a legitimate concern in surveilling their own property. These cameras, unlike so many others, weren't explicitly seeking nude shots, or sexual activity. That is, it makes no mention of views of the bathroom, or bedrooms. So, we can argue privacy vs property rights here, but we don't have the extreme invasion of privacy that we've seen in so many other stories.
Comment away, folks. I'm not real sure which side I want to argue here.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Sunday April 14 2019, @08:09PM (4 children)
There does also have to be some mention of "AirBnB isn't regulated the way hotels are, and that probably affects behavior on both the side of the renter and the property owner."
As you mention, property owners have a very legitimate reason to have camera footage of their property. For example, video proof that a guest damaged the property would seem to be very useful in case of fire damage and such.
Plus, do you really think hotels don't have cameras in hallways, lobbies, and other non-bedroom non-bathroom locations? If I had to guess, the ones that don't are the real dumps who can't afford them and/or rent rooms by the hour.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday April 14 2019, @08:48PM (3 children)
Hallways and lobbies are places where you don't have any privacy expectations. Also, I'd expect the hotel to be open about the existence of such cameras.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:27PM
On the other hand how often do you think they check their hotel rooms really? If I installed a camera in a smoke detector or vent in a hotel room I'm fairly sure it would actually be there for quite a while.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:38PM (1 child)
On the other hand, if you rent an AirBnB, what exactly is your expectation of privacy? And is it different from being in a buddy's home hanging out while your buddy is making a beer run?
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday April 15 2019, @06:19AM
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:29PM (2 children)
If the camera was simply for protection of property, why wasn't it disclosed and why was it disguised? Notably, Airbnb's terms of service require disclosure of any camera even if turned off, and require that it not be disguised.
If the camera was disclosed and the house was sub-divided into multiple rentals with the living room as a common area, it might fly (as long as the guests knew that when they reserved the rental), otherwise the whole house is most reasonably treated as private rented space much like a suite in a hotel.
It's worth noting that some families don't restrict nudity to the bathroom and bedroom. In such a case, depending on the country, the home owner could face some really serious criminal charges if the camera is discovered part way through the stay.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Monday April 15 2019, @12:53AM (1 child)
If they told people about the camera people would just cover it with something.
(Score: 4, Touché) by sjames on Monday April 15 2019, @01:53AM
If they don't want to abide by the terms of service, common decency, and in many places the law, perhaps they shouldn't rent their place out through Airbnb.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by MostCynical on Sunday April 14 2019, @08:23PM (8 children)
Lesson for hosts: run your cameras are on a separate, hidden, encrypted network.
Lesson for renters:
Hotels, motels, all of London, and many other places have cameras.
Stop expedting privacy or do something about it.
Weirdly, most people don't seem to care (until they can sell the story)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:33PM (7 children)
Public streets and public areas of a hotel are quite a different thing. Renting a home is most closely analogous to renting a suite in a hotel. There will be no cameras in the suite unless the owner is a creepy voyeur who may expect to face felony charges sooner or later.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:50PM (6 children)
You think of it as a suite, but, with no doorman, anything but bedrooms and bathrooms are really "public"
Expectations often dashed, sorry.
http://time.com/4914689/hotels-hidden-cameras-spy/ [time.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:54PM (5 children)
Read more carefully:
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Sunday April 14 2019, @10:02PM (4 children)
And the next paragraph
Definitions/semantics:
"Public areas"
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday April 14 2019, @10:24PM
There's not much of a semantic problem there. The part you rent has no cameras. The part that you're not renting should have none (and if there are any, it's a huge liability for the owner).
(Score: 2, Disagree) by sjames on Sunday April 14 2019, @11:54PM (2 children)
Some text got lost there! The part that you're renting should have no cameras, if it does it's a huge liability for the owner. The parts your not renting may have cameras, but should have signs posted saying so.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 15 2019, @04:24AM (1 child)
I think I agree with you. Ethics say that the rented portions of a property should be considered private. But, legally? Some owners may accept the potential liability. And, some of those owners may well win in court.
As a property owner, it would be "best practice" to disclose within the contract that you do monitor your property. Then mount a "throwaway" camera for the tenants to find. Then, mount a backup camera with good encryption to monitor pretty much the same thing that the "throwaway" would have monitored. Again, "best practice" would dictate that you do not monitor bedrooms and baths, or, if you have a pool, you do not monitor changing rooms. Anyplace that people are expected to be disrobed is strictly off limits. Everything else is fair game, so long as you disclose that you do monitor your property.
Ethics satisfied, I think.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday April 15 2019, @07:53AM
Some may risk the liability, but all it would take is one young person walking nude through the living room to make the criminal liability HUGE unless there was clear and complete disclosure. That's an awfully big liability to leave to a judge and jury making a reasonable expectation determination.
Of course, by the same token, I would not reserve any place that had cameras within the rented space.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 14 2019, @09:54PM (2 children)
It would be a shame if the renter bought an expensive camera and all the guests were ugly.
(Score: 2, Informative) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday April 14 2019, @11:03PM (1 child)
Daughters, it's daughters. And, they took a Selfie. Look at story, look at Selfie & decide. By the way, one of the daughters could be 17. That's a very good age!!!!
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 15 2019, @02:33AM
Why do you hate America?
(Score: 4, Informative) by lars on Sunday April 14 2019, @10:29PM
As usual Airbnb only fixes a problem if there is media exposure.
I just wanted to let people know that there are hidden camera detectors that work by letting you sense the reflection of near infrared light from the infrared filter present on most cameras:
https://spyassociates.com/spyfinder-pro-hidden-camera-detector/ [spyassociates.com]
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/283430750579 [www.ebay.ca]
Also seems to work as an RF detector.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 15 2019, @01:17AM
See what I did there?