With each news cycle, the false-information system grows more efficient.
Even on an internet bursting at the seams with conspiracy theories and hyperpartisanship, Saturday marked a new chapter in our post-truth, “choose your own reality” crisis story.
It began early Saturday morning, when news broke that the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein had apparently hanged himself in a Manhattan jail. Mr. Epstein’s death, coming just one day after court documents from one of his alleged victims were unsealed, sparked immediate suspicion from journalists, politicians and the usual online fringes.
Within minutes, Trump appointees, Fox Business hosts and Twitter pundits revived a decades old conspiracy theory, linking the Clinton family to supposedly suspicious deaths. #ClintonBodyCount and #ClintonCrimeFamily trended on Twitter. Around the same time, an opposite hashtag — #TrumpBodyCount — emerged, focused on President Trump’s decades-old ties to Mr. Epstein. Each hashtag was accompanied by GIFs and memes picturing Mr. Epstein with the Clintons or with Mr. Trump to serve as a viral accusation of foul play.
The dueling hashtags and their attendant toxicity are a grim testament to our deeply poisoned information ecosystem — one that’s built for speed and designed to reward the most incendiary impulses of its worst actors. It has ushered in a parallel reality unrooted in fact and helped to push conspiratorial thinking into the cultural mainstream. And with each news cycle, the system grows more efficient, entrenching its opposing camps. The poison spreads.
It's time to end "trending" on Twitter
By now you've probably read enough about the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein, his death in a Manhattan jail, and the attendant conspiracy theories that consumed social networks over the weekend. President Trump led the charge, retweeting a conspiracy theory that sought to implicate former President Bill Clinton.
While there is much blame to go around, Charlie Warzel finds that Twitter bears a special responsibility for what one researcher termed "the Disinformation World Cup." Warzel writes:
At the heart of the online fiasco is Twitter, which has come to largely program the political conversation and much of the press. Twitter is magnetic during huge breaking stories; news junkies flock to it for up-to-the-second information. But early on, there's often a vast discrepancy between the attention that is directed at the platform and the available information about the developing story. That gap is filled by speculation and, via its worst users, rumormongering and conspiracy theories.
On Saturday, Twitter's trending algorithms hoovered up the worst of this detritus, curating, ranking and then placing it in the trending module on the right side of its website. Despite being a highly arbitrary and mostly "worthless metric," trending topics on Twitter are often interpreted as a vague signal of the importance of a given subject.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @10:31AM (12 children)
When everyone gets a megaphone that can be heard around the world the bullshit flies fast and far. Everyone can listen for, and repeat, things that feed their confirmation biases. It doesn't help that those who give zero scrutiny to anything that they want to be true spread it without thinking twice. And let us not forget the tweeter-in-chief practices the same level of self control as he does concern about truthfulness: zero.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:42PM (11 children)
Back in the day, most people were edumacated enough to ignore such misinformation. Real news journalists took their job seriously. But today we have 'journos', whatever that is. Today clicks, ad sales, and the press owner's ideology trump journalism (no pun intended).
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:40PM (10 children)
the press owner's ideology trump journalism
It has always been that way. I'm sure you are familiar with Hearst and Pulitzer... And we can go back much further.
"Conspiracy theories" aren't the problem. It is the loss of control that upsets big business and their puppet governments.
Now, as far as Epstein is concerned, please. Everybody knew how it would go down the moment he was arrested. The people involved are just too important. They are *killing people on 5th Avenue* in broad daylight, and nobody gives a shit. The pedophile chieftains of the world are breathing a big sigh of relief, and will win reelection
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:50PM (9 children)
It's always been the case that the news may be slanted according to the whims of the owner.
But today it has gone to new insane levels. Outright misinformation. Facts that aren't. Conspiracy theories. Pizzagate. The Deep State.
It's not qualitatively the same.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:00PM
Nah. Think stories like dark Cuban custom agents searching the person of white American women before the Spanish American war or the incubator story before the first Iraq American war.
In the past, the media could lie as they wished. With alternate and direct from the source flows of information accessible to the normal person, the media have lost that monopoly.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:49PM (6 children)
Outright misinformation.
Yes, just like the old days, only now it is more overt.
The whole story is about vilifying and shutting down unlicensed user input on mass media, and reverting control back to the *three networks* approved by the FCC with a permit to broadcast.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:23PM (5 children)
Can the three approved networks be used in the same way as the three sea shells?
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:33PM (3 children)
Haha suuuuure DannyB, pretend like you DO know how to use the three sea shells. We see that missing sock when you come back from the bathroom?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:02PM (2 children)
Unlike three she sells, sox can conveniently capture other bodily emissions.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:55PM (1 child)
Did Jeffrey Epstein have painting of Bill Clinton wearing a blue DRESS and red heels and lounging in the Oval Office inside his Manhattan mansion? Visitor reveals bizarre image inside pedophile's $56m lair
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7353967/Did-Jeffrey-Epstein-portrait-Bill-Clinton-blue-dress-red-heels-NYC-mansion.html [dailymail.co.uk]
the pic: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/14/15/17274920-7353967-image-a-64_1565793528041.jpg [dailymail.co.uk]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:28PM
Did the dress have a stain?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday August 15 2019, @05:14PM
Along the shoreline? Sure...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by J_Darnley on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:49PM
> facts that aren't
> conspiracy theories
> pizzagate
What's not to believe about a pedophile ring operating in upper echelons of society? This is a story that mentions one of them just killed themselves (maybe). What are you going to tell us next? That Hollywood isn't filled with sex perverts?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @10:41AM (16 children)
https://www.scottadamssays.com/2017/02/12/good-example-of-our-two-movie-reality/ [scottadamssays.com]
"This phenomenon has nothing to do with natural intelligence. We like to think that the people on the other side of the political debate are dumb, under-informed, or just plain evil. That’s not the case. We’re actually experiencing different realities. I mean that literally."
"This is well-understood cognitive science."
"In order for our two-movie situation to merge back into a single movie, one of us needs to see our expectations violated in ways that even cognitive dissonance can’t explain away."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by zocalo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:36PM (10 children)
Because that works *so* well for the Flat Earth crowd, or pretty much any other conspiracy theory - blow a hole in their worldview and they'll just come up with a "yes, but..." theory to work around it, probably with added insanity. The only way to fix the partisanship in politics is at the top; by working on simple non-partisan issues that both sides can (mostly) agree on, then building up slowly from there so that the voters might actually get the idea that maybe, just maybe, not everything the other side of the aisle supports is automatically bad and at least listen when things eventually reach the more major/pressing issues. Not going to happen when you've got rampant populism, of course, because they plays to exact opposite and exploiting the divisiveness for support, so that part is something that the voters do need to make the first move on.
I suspect it's going to take a few cycles of successive governments basically spending all their time primarily focussed on undoing the work of the previous one rather than actually working towards improving the situation before that message sinks in though.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:26PM (5 children)
To play devil's advocate for a moment:
I've caught myself doing this at times. When there's some idea I'm not sure about, I want to know who wants it and why. If I find out the other side wants it, I'm automatically more suspicious.
But the thing is, there's almost always something to be suspicious of. And I don't think it's specific to which side we're talking about.
The real issue here is the fact that each side is ignorant to or willing to accept corruption from their own side. So no matter what it is, the other side usually has a valid reason to criticize it.
The solution is election reform. Term limits and finance regulation are probably the best avenues for it. Unfortunately, Republican voters are too distracted by voter ID, and Democrats are too butthurt about the electoral college. Hell, Bernie used to talk a lot about campaign finance reform, and nowadays he talks more about "Medicare for All" because his polling shows the general population like that idea more than anti-corruption.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:36PM (3 children)
No, it most emphatically is not. The solution is for people to wake the hell up, pay attention, and pitch in. As in, put the smartphone the fuck down, turn the TV the fuck off, show up to public meetings and public places and tell public officials to fix shit right now or they will hang in the yard out front.
If we all do that today, I guarantee you things will be right as rain by tomorrow. There is nothing quite so motivating to a government, any government, as the imminent threat of dismemberment.
If that's too graphic and violent an imagery for some, I'll point out that the public doesn't usually have to go that far. Remember SOPA? When we all said on the same day that that shit wasn't going to fly, and melted down the switchboards in DC? They panicked, lost their shit, and killed it dead immediately.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:40PM
Wow.
You are an idiot or a shill, pick one and GET OFF MY LAWN!
(Score: 5, Interesting) by meustrus on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:06PM
Disengagement and corruption are entangled with each other. Many people don't engage in politics because they don't feel like they can make a difference. They feel like they can't make a difference because all the politicians are just different breeds of lizard people.
I'm all for boosting engagement, but I'm not sold on whether it can be done without fixing the unfair distribution of political power first. Nothing gets talked about without first being approved by the corporate forces that will be affected by it. Somehow, we the people need to be able to find and elect independent thinkers.
Systematically, we need a movement to make that happen. Unfortunately, such movements have two problems:
1. Their leaders quickly get encouraged to run for office, becoming part of the system they are supposed to be fixing.
2. People at large don't really care about democratic principles so much as they care about their immediate problems, i.e. health care, student loans, etc.
If you have an idea for how to fix engagement without fixing corruption, I'd love to hear it. I'm not convinced the democratic process is much good for fixing corruption, honestly. It seems to be a lot better at electing demagogues who promise to fix corruption while really just co-opting it for their own personal interests. I can think of at least 4 world leaders right now that fit this mold.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 15 2019, @07:06PM
We can never be complacent again.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:58PM
Sorry, but term-limits is not an answer. California tried it, and all it did was ensure that thoughtful people didn't get re-elected very often.
I think the entire idea of elections doesn't work in a large populace. My guess is that a lottery would, on the average, produce better results. For one thing, in a large populace electioneering costs are so high that the winner is going to be in hock to a bunch of deep-pocketed "sponsors". These won't necessarily be people who directly gave the candidate money. Many of them merely bankroll "support organizations".
Another problem, of course, is that just because an idea or policy is popular doesn't mean it's a good idea. Experts can usually be trusted when they criticize an idea or policy, even if they can't be trusted when they promote it. (Just carefully look into who's paying them.) The problem that this paragraph addresses is why governmental funding of electioneering isn't a sufficient answer. That will get you people who promise popular answers.
FWIW, any type of government can work well at a particular scale. Communism is just about ideal for a group of less than 20 people. Democracy works well at groups from a few hundred up to several thousand, but I'm not sure it works for a million or more. If it does, it's with a different kind of electioneering process than has been tried. Perhaps it would sort of work if based around the old Anglo-Saxon method of choosing a king. Say anyone out to the second cousin of the current king was a viable candidate, and vote for which of those you prefer. Even then, though, the process would tend to select for those who want power, and that's a very poor criterion.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:14PM (2 children)
> only way to fix the partisanship
Whoa, only way? The only way?
> working on simple non-partisan issues that both sides can (mostly) agree on
And we'll just pretend there aren't any huge differences? And Global Warming, that will just politely wait while we sort things out?
> Not going to happen when you've got rampant populism
A question I have: just what are our most pressing problems? I would say Global Warming, but we have some other problems that are slowing or outright stopping our ability to deal with that. Is it gross stupidity? Greed? Fraud and corruption? Media overdramatizing everything? Rich and powerful sociopaths egging us all on to intensify our natural competitiveness with one another? Nuclear weapons?
Before the invention of nuclear weapons, humanity could afford to indulge in total war. We didn't have the might and knowledge to really fuck up the world. Now, we do. We can't afford to cut loose. It's thought that a supervolcano eruption circa 75k years ago nearly killed humanity. Nuclear winter would be similar, with the added fun of lots of radioactivity. I am hopeful that, since the only use of nuclear weapons at the end of WWII, the most we've done with them are a few dozen test detonations which among other things served as demonstrations. The fearful thing is that there are plenty of people crazy enough to use nuclear weapons if only they could. The rest of us have been pretty careful to keep the ability to use a nuclear bomb spread out so that no one person or small group could go rogue and detonate one against the wishes of the majority.
We may have gotten too complacent about nuclear weapons. Right now, possibly the most troubling scenario is that Global Warming leads to catastrophic sea level rise, which in turn causes massive population movements to higher ground, famines, and ... war. Under that severe stress, will we be able to restrain ourselves and not reach for the nuclear bombs?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by barbara hudson on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:00PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:11PM
I think you're oversimplifying the problems caused by sea level rise. And the other associated problems.
E.g., when the acidity of sea water rises (because of dissolved CO2) it becomes more expensive for most sea animals to build their skeletons. Clam shells may dissolve away nearly as fast as they grow. Similarly for corals and most fish. (Not sharks and rays, and the cartilaginous fish, though, not jellyfish.) This may already be one of the factors impacting the replenishment of fish after catching, but if so, it will get worse as the acidity increases. Temperature rises in the upper layers of the ocean cause fish to move their location. (This is already happening. The ones that depend on permanent ice are seeing population declines even without human fishing.) Etc.
Of course, reaching for nuclear weapons isn't purely governed by sea level rise. We've already had several near misses to MADness. And every decade, recently it seems like every year, another player gets a finger on the button. Will the madness be started over Kashmir? Over access to water from the Brahmaputra river? That's not sea level rise, but it *is* driven by global warming, as the glacier in the Himalayas are melting, and that's been a crucial source of dependable water for the entire region.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @10:27PM
The "needs to see our expectations violated in ways that even cognitive dissonance can’t explain away" does not work precisely because of the "yes, but..." theories that they come up with. I suspect that flat earth is a psyop, or maybe the hobby of some smart people, because there are some "yes, but..." theories that are too impressive to come from their "true believers."
Politics follows culture. Fixing an issue at the political level is like putting the cart in front of the horse.
The rampant populism started with "President King Mob" after voting rights were expanded. Originally, you had to prove yourself as a good decision maker by owning property. What happens when you add non-good-decision-makers into your political system? You get more non-good-decisions being made. In whiny voice: "It's about fairness" "It's not because of me that I am not successful. More successful people are oppressing us."
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:59PM
Oh gosh, so many words to say never. (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:33PM (2 children)
tl;dr: People believe fake news. Anyone who believes anything they read in the news is naive. This has been true for a long time, but when Obama legalized propagandizing American citizens it really started taking off.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:14PM (1 child)
Obama? It was Fox news that took the case to court defending their right to lie to people in a "news broadcast".
The government has, of course, lied to people for as long as it has existed, but previously news organizations were required (not effectively, perhaps) to tell the truth in their news...though, of course, not in their opinion pieces.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @05:58PM
Yes. Obama. He passed the law legalizing propaganda.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:54PM
No, that needs to happen to both sides. Both sides are equally poisonous, just in different areas. But both sides have picked a poison that works well for them, so both sides stand to lose.
Here's the dirty little secret: there never have been just two sides. Anyone who's trying to convince you that there's only two options, is playing you.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @10:50AM (59 children)
I am reminded of that picture of children in cages. It was used to blame Trump for his border policy. But the picture clearly had a date stamp clearly visible that was plainly within the Obama administration years. They were so brainwashed that they no only failed to investigate the source of the picture, but glossed right over the obvious date stamp that was right in front of them. Oh, and this was after Democrats stated that there was no crisis on the border. Were they blind, or were they getting kickbacks from the human trafficking and/or drugs?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:27AM (11 children)
Oooh, please share a link to that video from a neutral news source (nothing on the left or the right).
(Score: 4, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:38AM (10 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:54AM (4 children)
Nice story, but has nothing to do with the claim that a time stamp was purposely ignored and the assertion that there may have been kickbacks by human traffickers.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:22PM (2 children)
But the rest of the story is very true, and easily verifiable, the initial twitterstorm was sparked by someone posting a pic that was actually from Obama's term and blaming Trump for it.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:36PM (1 child)
I assumed it was more of the BS that poisons news feeds.
I'm not doubting or denying that during Obama's administration that there was some family separations. Just the claims that the recent photos and videos were from Obama's time in office.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:46PM
In some cases it's pretty well unavoidable. Especially when the 'parents' are suspected of not being who they seem, and knowing that in some cases the children turn out to be trafficked.
If a case came up where a child came through the border with someone that had purchased him or her and they were NOT separated, there would be hell to pay.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Informative) by hemocyanin on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:32PM
If you aren't willing to use the links I'll give you an excerpt. The time stamp thing may be wrong (I don't know the exif data was preserved, but the article date was plain:
(Score: 5, Informative) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:30PM
It does appear from reading that article that the majority of those children that Obama's administration detained were children that arrived without their parents. And the majority of those were eventually settled with relatives living in the USA.
It looks as if the Obama administration was in the business of reuniting stray children with their families, rather than separating them.
The exception was for children that were considered to be at risk from their parents. Those were separated. As happens domestically with American citizens when their American children are at risk. (I suppose there is another situation here when child-protection oversteps its mandate and misjudges risk, but that isn't what we're talking about now.)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:05PM (3 children)
Asks for a unbiased source, posts link to zerohedge.
Lol.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:44PM (2 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:19PM (1 child)
The request for an unbiased source is a clear indication of doubt that the biased source isn't manipulating the result. So it does matter.
I have no knowledge or opinion of zerohedge, so perhaps it *is* a reasonable source, but your response doesn't encourage that belief.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 16 2019, @10:50PM
People who require unbiased sources should not be on the Internet, or watching / listening to profit driven programming. It is possible to filter out bias. It is called discernment.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bobthecimmerian on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:01PM (46 children)
Not all leftists are inconsistent. If I had understood the US border policy in 2015 the way I do today, I would have called for Obama's head on a platter too. And in fact, now I do.
If you read further, the current US-Mexico border policy practices date back to the Clinton Administration. So let me be crystal clear - Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump can all go to the Hague for crimes against humanity over this.
And in the 2020 election I'm only supporting candidates that will end the practice. Biden, for example, is clearly comfortable with what is happening or he would have raised hell about it when he was vice president. So if he wins the nomination, I'm voting third party. And if anyone starts chiming in that this is why Hillary lost - I hate Trump, but since Hillary (like Biden) supported this kind of thing, she didn't deserve to win either. I want a 1960s Great Society Democrat, not a choice between Republican and pro-choice, pro-gay Republican.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:12PM (24 children)
It's a choice between children in cages, separating children from their families, or just letting whoever wants to waltz across the border. There's not a "good" answer, so which bad one would you prefer?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:47PM (5 children)
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:09PM (3 children)
Which is pretty much what happened to them before progtards threw a fit about children being separated from their parents. The exact same fit they'll throw ten or fifteen years after it's changed back.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:36PM (1 child)
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:00PM
Both sides not one side. Progress is movement in a direction of your choosing, so both sides make progress when they're getting their way.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:53PM
Ah Buzzy being a typical uninformed idiot again https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/obama-administration-placed-children-with-human-traffickers-report-says/2016/01/28/39465050-c542-11e5-9693-933a4d31bcc8_story.html?noredirect=on [washingtonpost.com]
At least before they tried helping, this admin doesn't give a shit and encourages mistreatment via twitter. Bonus points for the token Republican getting all morally righteous but not making a peep about Trump's even worse treatment.
Buzzy you are a twisted fuck.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:04PM
So you choose to separate children from their families and put them behind fences. You monster.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:38PM (7 children)
None of these. Instead,
(1) Don't separate children from their families when they cross the border. If they have to be detained, detain them together. (Exception: children at obvious risk of harm from their families)
(2) If children arrive unaccompanied, try to find their families. (Apparently under Obama, most such children were eventually united with relatives already within the USA)
(3) Play 4/4 music at the border rather than 3/4 waltz music.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:54PM (1 child)
I like 'Flight of the Valkyries'. You?
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:44PM
Not to be too pedantic, but I'm pretty sure that's in 9/8 time.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:01PM
Detaining them together is the "children in cages" that we have now and the progtards are throwing a fit over.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:02PM
Scuse me, we're doing the separating them from their families thing now. Kids in cages with their parents is what we were doing before.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:01PM (2 children)
Separation happens only if officials find that the adult is falsely claiming to be the child’s parent, or is a threat to the child, or is put into criminal proceedings. Those rules have always been the same. The change under Trump was that ALL adults are being prosecuted for illegal entry. In the past, adults with children were allowed to walk. That policy is what encouraged so many illegals to bring children with them.
When a migrant is prosecuted for illegal entry, he or she is taken into custody by the U.S. Marshals. In no circumstance anywhere in the U.S. do the marshals care for the children of people they take into custody. The child is taken into the custody of HHS, who cares for them at temporary shelters. Typically that only lasts a short time period (a few hours to a few days), after which the family is reunited and deported (the parent can ask that their children stay, and arrangements can be made for that, such as with a relative).
The Flores Consent Decree from 1997 says that unaccompanied children can be held only 20 days. When the adult migrant claims asylum, they're not A ruling by the Ninth Circuit extended this 20-day limit to children who come as part of family units. So even if we want to hold a family unit together, we are forbidden from doing so.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Wednesday August 14 2019, @09:09PM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Friday August 16 2019, @12:05AM
No, sorry, that's not the way it works. You're incorrectly conflating a lot of things and saying they're all the same.
You CAN claim asylum from any point of entry. Crossing the border somewhere else is against the law (the first time is a misdemeanor, subsequent crossings are felonies). It's true that after you cross, you can claim asylum. But that's where things get tricky, especially if you have brought a minor (yours, stolen, or paid for) along with you. You still get detained for processing, but an asylum request takes a LOT longer. It means any minors with you will need to be placed with family, or some foster situation.
Speaking of which, this was a system developed under the corrupt Obama administration. The housing for unaccompanied or separated minors. You've got organizations like Southwest Key Programs - here is their funding revenue for finding homes for children [hhs.gov]. There are the "VOLAGS" (Volunteer Agencies) that are paid millions for resetting refugees. here is a chart of them and their funding [capitalresearch.org]. Catholic Charities is probably the largest organization paid with federal tax money for locating homes for children of illegal immigrants. They're one of the reasons you'll hear stories about immigrant moms looking for their children in Texas and discovering they've been sent somewhere on the East Coast.
That rabbit hole goes pretty deep. The NYT even wrote an article about it [nytimes.com], even if nobody paid attention to it. The point is illegal immigration is big business, for the cartels that control the border from the Mexico side, to all the companies and rent-seekers sucking at the teat for their own self-interest. None of them give one whit about the immigrants themselves, and as long as they're lining their own pockets, they don't care about the damage it does to the country and its vulnerable citizens either.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:08PM
Nice false dichotomy (trichotocomy?) there.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:57PM (5 children)
Well, if those are my choices (hint: they aren't) then I choose to let them "waltz across the border". Seriously, what is so godawful wrong with letting people come to America to get a good job and a decent education for their kids? You are literally in a panic because people are jumping over walls, swimming across rivers, and walking across deserts to get into America. Actually, the time to panic is when people are jumping over walls, swimming across rivers, and walking across deserts to get out of the country. Seriously, get some perspective.
(Score: 2) by curunir_wolf on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:05PM (1 child)
No border, no country.
No country, no laws.
What you're advocating here is that people from OTHER countries should be the ones deciding our immigration policies.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:51PM
Bullshit!!! We have thousands of miles of unprotected border with Canada. No one in their right mind would argue that the sovereignty of either one is in jeopardy.
No, what I am advocating is that you and your Trumpista buddies stop being anal retentive assholes. Look, our immigration policies are at least a few decades out of date. We need to bring immigration policy back to some semblance of reality.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:34PM (2 children)
Alright, let's see yours. You come home from work and find a bum from skid row helping himself to your kitchen. Do you A) call the police or B) call for a pizza?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:57PM (1 child)
Analogy fail. The people coming across the border are not helping themselves to your kitchen; they are looking for jobs which pay better than what they can find back home. Why the hell do you not want people coming to America to contribute to our economy? This is after all, historically, what "made America great" in the first place.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 16 2019, @02:19AM
Fail there. Illegals often consume more in government subsidies than they contribute to the economy. I'm all about documenting up anyone who wants to pull their weight and letting them in but I don't want them showing disdain for our nation's laws by entering illegally or getting here and immediately sucking on the government tit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by istartedi on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:59PM (1 child)
You're missing the option of actually prosecuting people who hire illegally, and having a jobs program that hires immigrants when there *really* are no citizens that can fill the job.
You know, sane policy that could actually have a chance of working because you're enforcing against assets in fixed locations that have a strong incentive and ability to comply vs. enforcing against poor people distributed all over the country who have little or no incentive to comply.
I know. Crazy, but I can dream, right?
We now return to our regularly scheduled program of chasing rabbits all over the field while the horse leaves the barn.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:02PM
I can't believe you would post this anti-business tripe!
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:27PM
You're presenting a false dilemma and you have to know it. BP/ICE can go after violent criminals, rapists, and the other very dangerous less than 1% of the people crossing the border and ignore the others, and we'll be fine.
We're spending 700 billion a year on military shit we don't need. Trump holds up the 1950s as America's greatest time but top marginal tax rates on the wealthiest Americans were 90% then and 40% today. And if nothing else, a fraction of the 8 million dollars per day ICE is using to jail thousands of immigrants could be used to house them more cheaply in hotels with catered meals.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:52PM (9 children)
That gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling - almost kinda like "brotherhood". Someone realizes that all of them are equally guilty of the same crimes, and shoves partisanship aside to demand justice. Dayum!!
But, before we get the pitchforks all sharpened up, let us keep in mind that we have to do SOMETHING with those kids. And, no, those "cages" aren't exactly concentration camps. I can't say that they are "pleasant", but the kids aren't being used for medical experiments. Not being worked to death. Not even kept on starvation diets. There is no crematoria behind the cages, from which the remains of children are dumped into a deep ravine. If a bunch of kids show up on my property, I can't just let them run wild, to fall into a well, or be run over by traffic or be mauled by one of the big cats known to frequent the area. Any of that would be criminally negligent. So, I'll have to round them up, and try to keep them safe, until the law arrives, right? Anyone under age six, seven, or maybe eight, anyway.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:50PM
Ugh, you all managed to let Runaway get away with shoving the overton window into "concentration camp" territory while feeling all wsrm and fuzzy.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bobthecimmerian on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:39PM (7 children)
We can put those kids with their parents, and let them go. We are the richest country in history. The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are peaceful and for those that are not, statistically the violent crime rates are lower than for native citizens. (Nobody is demanding we deport our white trash for safety reasons, are they?) The government is spending far more money detaining these people in giant prisons than it would cost to give them regular housing and food: $200/person/day, 8 million per day total.
And it is a fucking concentration camp. Per Wikipedia: Use of the word "concentration" came from the idea of confining people in one place because they belong to a group that is considered undesirable in some way, and it was coined in 1897. The Nazis had Jews in concentration camps for six years, from 1933 to 1939, before they started forcing them to do slave labor and butchering them. US confinement of Japanese citizens during WW2 was concentration camps. Conditions in some of the US facilities for housing Native American tribes through our history qualify as concentration camps too. Inside our own borders people that were not convicted of violent crimes or rape are getting treated worse than our murderers. Every member of Congress that is not fighting this, every White House staff member, and a good chunk of the BP and ICE employees deserve to be hanged for what they're doing. If these kids come out of the camps too traumatized to live a normal life, or more likely to become violent criminals, it will be precisely because we made them that way. This is all the evidence the world needs that the US is the same savage shithole that enslaved blacks and butchered Native Americans 200 years ago.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 15 2019, @01:31PM (2 children)
Latin America is the largest part of the Americas (vs. Euro-North America), and their countries are nominally democracies. What should make us think that these people who created these post-independence shitholes aren't going to do the same to the USA?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 15 2019, @03:20PM
You are suffering from Head-Up-Ass Syndrome. Many of us have parents/grandparents who came from countries which were governed far worse. When my paternal grandfather left Germany, the Kaiser was still ruling the country. When my maternal grandparents left, Hitler was in power. I can assure you that I have no desire to turn the USA into one of those abominations; and my grandparents and parents would never have stood for that either. In fact, most who come to the USA do so precisely because they want to get away from such "shitholes". Why should people from Latin America be treated any different?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 15 2019, @06:18PM
They're post-independence shitholes because of US intervention. Read up on the United Fruit Company, the School of the Americas, and CIA-backed coupes all throughout Central and South America. They were making progress, but that progress came with socialism and the oligarchy in the US couldn't stand for it, so we tore them to bits.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 15 2019, @01:33PM (3 children)
Bob, you silly Cimmerian - I've already explained that often times, THE KIDS HAVE NO PARENTS AROUND!!!! So, how you gonna "put them with their parents" if there are no parents around?
As for your definition of concentration camps, we did it before the Germans did, but not before the Turks did it. We did, indeed, put the Native Americans into concentration camps. Kids at the border today are NOT in concentration camps, unless you really strain your imagination. Go back, and really take a hard look at what happened to the people the Turks put into concentration camps. Few survived for very long at all. The US' concentration camps had a much better survival rate than the Turk's or the Germans - but it still wasn't great.
To date, there is no record of one single person at the border being executed, whether the execution be ordered by the government, or the execution was just for the amusement of one or more guards. No rapes, no mutilations, only a very few accidental deaths and injuries. If you would like to be regarded as something more than a silly Cimmerian, please stop with the nonsense soundbytes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 15 2019, @03:29PM
You sure about that? [nytimes.com]
Yeah, well, about that some are suggesting that those deaths were largely preventable. [aclu.org]
Physician, heal thyself!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 19 2019, @12:08AM (1 child)
These camps have less comfortable sleeping conditions, poorer hygiene, less room to exercise, and poorer quality food than prisons. And for example the Nazis had Jews in concentration camps for years before they started the forced labor and slaughter. These are very much concentration camps. And there is zero justification, ever, for having kids in poorer conditions than convicted murderers.
And a great number of the children in these camps were separated from their parents. Not all, but many. It may be impractical to reunite them now because we deliberately removed all means of linking children to parents inside or outside the borders.
To repeat some public statistics: there are half a million Caucasian illegal immigrants in the US, but ICE imprisons almost none of them and is 23 times as likely to deport and illegal Latino immigrant as an illegal Caucasian one. This was never about illegal immigrants, it has been about race the whole time.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 19 2019, @02:47AM
Citations needed. Plural "citations" used intentionally. Among other things that convince me that you are wrong, Auschwitz initially buried it's victims in deep pits. In the latter part of 1942, they began digging up those same victims, to incinerate them. The intention, from the start, was to remove the Jew from European history. Eliminate the Jews, eliminate their bodies, eliminate all mention of them in the history books - the ultimate genocide. Let's remember that the German's savagery wasn't aimed only at the Jews, but the worst savagery was reserved for the Jews. Shall we look first at the invasion of Poland? The killings were still disorganized, and hit or miss in 1940, but at Auschwitz, the Jews went in, but the Jews didn't come out. The Poles had somewhat better luck than the Jews, but many Poles didn't even make it through "orientation".
http://lekcja.auschwitz.org/en_17_deportacje/ [auschwitz.org]
So - for how many years are you claiming that Nazis had Jews in concentration camps, before the slaughter began?
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you have confused the ghettos with concentration camps. The ghettos, all across Europe, are where the Jews "concentrated" themselves, in an attempt to counter the various pogroms. Pogroms were almost routine, before Germany interfered. Droughts were blamed on the Jews, and the populace punished the Jews. Bank failures were blamed on the Jews, crop failures, anything and everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ghettos_in_Europe [wikipedia.org]
What we have at the border with Mexico today would have to become permanent, before you could even compare it with the ghettos. No way in hell can you compare the US/Mexico border with concentration camps. Only complete and utter ignorance will allow any person to make such a comparison.
Read some history. I read this history while still a teenager, sitting in the reference sections of libraries where kids were "officially" not allowed. No easy, simple, internet searches, but searching through musty old books. You've got it easy, click the link and get started.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:34PM (6 children)
The reason I'm no longer a Democrat is because Democrats NEVER care when their own do evil. Honestly, I don't think Democrats care about policies, they only care WHO does the policies. So when GWB was opening up wars in the ME, Democrats came unglued. When Obama did it, they were having brunch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:01PM (2 children)
What new wars were begun during the Obama administration? Name one. Be specific.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:51PM
Libya
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:36PM
Syria
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:09PM (2 children)
Y'know I keep seeing this sentiment from all spectrums. I'm starting to think it is pure MSM and political manipulation to push the emotional buttons. Personally I only heard about a lot of Obama's negative shit much later, though to argue against your point I was pissed about a lot of things he did. Failure to get better healthcare reform, increased droning, continued war mongering.
We really need to reform our society,
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:02PM (1 child)
Obama:
Anyone who thinks that Obama was better than Trump on POLICES (yeah, he was better about twitter), was OUT TO FUCKING BRUNCH. As is the Democrat usual.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Oakenshield on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:32PM
You forgot opposed wiretapping abuses as a Senator and signed a law retroactively making it legal.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:42PM (3 children)
"Go to the Hague for crimes against humanity" for jailing people who crossed your border illegally? That is a weird thing to say. A country has the right to defend its borders, or it's just not a country. By definition. If you have borders, you control who crosses them, or you're just a loose collection of yahoos wandering through a vague area and have no right to demand you or I pay it taxes or do any other thing you tell us to do.
The people in question in cages are the ones who chose to violate those borders. Nobody made them. They chose to do that. So, really, historically, they're lucky the country in question didn't shoot them on sight. Because when people you don't want to enter your space force their way in, it's called an invasion.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:51PM (1 child)
You do realize that right now---this very moment---we have thousands of miles of open border with Canada, right? Does that mean we are not a country? What about Canada? Are they not a country?
Nice use of emotive language there. Trump and the alt-right would be proud, I'm sure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:51PM
How is the border with Canada open? There are sensors deployed and people patrolling it. When I crossed the border in a place remote enough to not have a crossing station, the border patrol was there in 5 minutes.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:28PM
It truly is. Particularly considering that all the people he mentioned could fairly be charged - just not on the issue that commenter would want, apparently.
It's almost like this is a fake issue, being raised for purely political purposes.
"Because when people you don't want to enter your space force their way in, it's called an invasion."
I'm not aware of anyone stupid enough to try to shoot their way in though; you really are posting hyperbole.
(Most of) the would-be immigrants haven't done anything wrong, they were told they could escape what was often some pretty miserable conditions if they would come here so they came here. Congress for decades has refused to fix our immigration system, and congresscritters and others have sent very questionable messages, and this is the result. Demonizing the poor people stuck at the border is just a distraction from the real problems, in Washington.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:10AM (58 children)
This particular story doesn't need misinformation to warrant a respectable conspiracy theory. Someone dying in custody who might have been able to testify against other rich and powerful people is suspicious as fuck regardless of the circumstances.
And let's not forget that before Snowden leaked all those documents, the NSA spying on everyone was a conspiracy theory too.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:28AM (27 children)
No one believes this was a simple suicide. Maybe it was a suicide - but a suicide while in custody in supposedly one of the most secure lockups in the country, one that routinely deals with high profile cases where suicide/murder are likely to be attempted, and it's been, what, 40 years or so since anyone managed to do this there? Sounds like *assisted* suicide, at least. Nevermind the crazy stories coming out through the MSM regarding the case - the 'guard' who wasn't actually a guard, the roid-pumped ex-cop/convicted murderer that was put in his cell right before the first 'suicide attempt,' and so on.
The MSM will claim we're all conspiracy theorists, but under the circumstances, the 'just a suicide, nothing to see hear' theory they're pushing is the crazy conspiracy theory. You need to really want to believe that for it to make any sense at all.
Watch them throw their last shreds of credibility under the bus in a futile attempt to control the narrative.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:48PM (13 children)
From my perspective, I think it's just one of thousands of readily visible datapoints showing how bad the judgement of the current top executive staff is. They're pissing on us and not even having the decency to call it rain. It's bad enough we let this happen once, God help the world if the US goes for the bait again in 2020.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:46PM (12 children)
I will go out on a limb and predict that, despite my vote, Trump will be re-elected in 2020 and 2024.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:28PM (11 children)
I was in Houston, belly of the beast as it were, for 2004 - it was kind of inevitable, unbelievably sad, and the rest of the world collectively breathed a sigh of relief and congratulated US for 2008.
I prefer not to imagine a Carrot topped tweet led U.S. of A. in 2021, if such a thing happens I guess I'll deal with it, but it is a new level of sadness that even W could not aspire to.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:41PM (10 children)
Look at the upside. You won't have to go to the trouble to vote in 2024.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:47PM (9 children)
Hollywood is so good at dystopian future movies, what would a Russian controlled USA even look like in 2024?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:56PM (3 children)
This is a hilarious glimpse into the delusional echo chamber. You two republicrats aren't even reading the right book.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:42PM (2 children)
Willful ignorance is not an attractive trait.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:49PM (1 child)
The willfully ignorant can still believe they are attractive.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:39PM
DRUMPH HAS AN ORANGE MUSHROOM PENIS.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:46PM (3 children)
Give me a break. Russia can't even manage Russia, a piddling country of 120 million people.
If you like thinking about foreign states controlling the United States, you really are ignoring the elephant in the room. Look up AIPAC.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:58PM (1 child)
Russia managing Russia is recently reported as resulting in 50,000 protesters in the streets... They can't do it well, but they are doing something.
By "Russian controlled US" I would mean: top level power players in Russia getting control of similar US sources of power/money, such as energy companies, possibly internet/information brokerage companies, and doing what they will with them.
How do you feel about full-on fracking exploitation of all available US natural gas resources? Increased internet censorship through keyword trawling, arbitrary binding take-down of content, more pervasive and harder to spot distribution of information targeted at modifying behavior in certain population groups... straight up propaganda office control of the news outlets...
Just because people are inept doesn't mean they're not in power or attempting to control.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:43PM
Go for it. I heat with natural gas at home.
Wait. Make up you mind. Are you ctrl-left or alt-right? I thought it was the right wingers that were complaining about increased internet censorship through keyword trawling and arbitrary take-down of content.
Have you seen CNN and MSNBC anytime in the past three years? Regardless, I fail to see what any of this has to do with Russians though. Did you forget to take your TDS meds this morning?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:20PM
Russia may be trying to seize control of the US from the hands of AIPAC.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:35PM
A lot more vodka distilleries, comrade. You will need them.
Ty chto mumu yebyosh? ;-)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:19PM (8 children)
Did you see the story about the monstrosity cellmate they put in with Epstein? https://yonkerstimes.com/dirty-westchester-ex-cop-is-epsteins-cell-mate/ [yonkerstimes.com] I can imagine anyone preferring death rather than the possibilities with that guy.
WTF has truly happened to our legal system?
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:36PM (7 children)
I feel like this is Trump's fault. The Orange Carrot Penis.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:43PM (4 children)
Misinformation like this about our dear leader is why Anonymous Coward should not be believed.
According to Stormy, it is a small misshapen mushroom of nondescript color.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @03:21PM
Way too much information! What has been visualized cannot be unvisualized. Ugh. Carry on. :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:50PM (2 children)
As a (ahem) "professional" in her field, I would assume anything less than enormous would seem small to her. She is accustomed to tackle you could hang a tire down at the old swimmin' hole.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:15PM (1 child)
I think you are wrong Mr. Coward. People who are well endowed probably have no need for the services of a professional. People who seek out such professionals probably have no other outlet. Why a "star" and "president" would seek out such services remains a complete mystery. Perhaps done out of charity. I suspect these professionals mostly see equipment that is at the current forefront of miniaturization capabilities.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:51PM
Do you know that Miss Cliffords has sex on film for money? That is why she is a professional. Male performers are not chosen for their intelligence, talent, looks, lack of tattoos or any other criteria other than their genitals. Therefore her work related experience is with higher percentiles of size. Our president has never seems to want for sexual partners due to his ready access to large sums of money. Money is the ultimate aphrodisiac for certain types of women. (See Anna Nicole Smith or Lauren Sanchez for reference) Circumstances appear to implicate Miss Cliffords to be also that certain type.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:15PM (1 child)
Why is this not upvoted insightful?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:51PM
Probably because our legal system has been in a long slide before the arrival of the Orange one. Therefore maybe not insightful.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:08PM (1 child)
Watershed... to what? His death is so highly inconsequential to the 99.999% of US population, their agreement on this matter is as relevant as the one on "the water is wet".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:57PM
A watershed is very meaningful if a slight change in where a raindrop falls leads to a vast difference in its eventual destination. (Pacific vs Atlantic, or Heaven vs Hell, etc)
But if both destinations, no matter how far apart, are equally undesirable and unlivable, then did it really matter which path the raindrop takes? If the raindrop fell an inch to the left, or an inch to the right, would it still make a sound? Oh, wait . . . wrong I'm mis mixing again . . . nevermind.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by bussdriver on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:05PM (1 child)
Trump's usual pattern of blaming others of variations of WHAT HE DID, works extremely well: He already is accepted as a horrible person (He said he could shoot somebody in the street and win...) but this gets everybody attacking conspiracies. Remember Pizzagate? That distracted from his friend Epstein, he used to disavow. Epstein was going down for criminal conspiracy... the #1 crime the FBI does is conspriacy. Legitimate conspiracies get harmed by these actions; every dictator is watching and learning... more than just repeating "Fake News!"
Look up "Guantanamo of New York". Guess what comes up? This SAME maximum security prison! The one that held drug lords, terrorists, and Bernie Madoff.
Suicide is totally unacceptable in a maximum security prison especially with a recent alleged attempt. The fact Epstein was WAITING for an appeal on his request for bail or house arrest makes it an unlikely motive (this is a man who bought his way out before.) Then you have blatantly corrupt Barr who is in charge with 2 years of purging FBI staff who look disloyal to Trump (starting with the man who handed him the election.) I wouldn't be surprised if a former prison staffer becomes our next Labor Secretary!
Known Russian tactics are for undermining all trust in institutions and poke up extreme factions to topple societies and the result is we can't trust our institutions to function properly whenever the powerful benefit. Incompetence being the most acceptable excuse; it is also promoted to be expected from our institutions. So all we have left is a mountain of theories, gossip, lies burring the truth which needs even more help to stand out... but that help is nearly gone.
(Score: 1) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @07:21PM
Aww jeez.
You were doing so well at first. Enjoy your TFH.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by qzm on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:42AM (11 children)
Yes, there is quite an effort in some parts of the media (*cough* also pushing russian links stories *cough*) that 'if you think anything odd happened, then you are a trump loving conspiracy nutjob.
However, as you rightly say, this is dirty as all hell, and quite clearly so.
Is it POSSIBLE he offed himself? well, yes.... possible.... but not likely. And if he did so, it was almost certainly not due to normal suicide motives.
However, SO MANY THINGS are clearly not right in this picture - things already verified, that it is quite sensible to be asking 'wtf happened here'.
It stinks of people high enough up making a decision that we are all stupid enough not to look at what is somewhat obvious... and that they can do what they want.
Now, will we ever find out who and exactly why? very unlikely.
However, if it doesnt shake your trust in the US state... then you need to open your eyes.
The list of people who would want him dead is MUCH longer than 'The Clintons' of course, but hey, they just make the mistake of being an obvious possibility..
Trump? you have to be kidding - its bordering on desperation how hard people are working to tie him in to things. It actually seems surprising how LITTLE he had to do with Epstein.. considering he is a definite womaniser.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:54AM (7 children)
Note that it's "womanizer" not "childizer". He may like them younger than himself but I've yet to see any hint that he likes them below voting age.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:59AM (6 children)
He used to regularly walk in on naked underage girls in dressing rooms, on purpose. That's well known.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:14PM (5 children)
[Citation Needed]
And not one from Huffpo, The Atlantic, MSNBC, or the like.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by fyngyrz on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:50PM
This is likely based on Trump's comments about his beauty pageants:
You can hear Trump talking about peeping on pageant contestants as he is being interviewed on the Howard Stern show at 2:25 here. [soundcloud.com]
Trump said:
--
Dark humor is like medical care.
Not everyone gets it.
(Score: 5, Informative) by fyngyrz on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:07PM (3 children)
Here are some of the allegations that deal specifically with the Miss Teen USA pageant:
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When I get a headache, I take two aspirin and keep away from children.
Just like the bottle says.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:25PM (2 children)
With the Miss Teen USA pageant, there may be something to what you say but that account wasn't thorough enough to say one way or the other. Voting-aged women were explicitly excluded from my statement though. And implicitly excluded from any moral judgment of his tastes on the grounds that seeing naked women is something pretty much every straight male enjoys. Walking in the dressing room on adult women is a dick move because he's swinging his dick around not because wanting to see women naked is immoral.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:46PM
Ah, so Buzzy feels personally attacked because he tends to objectify women and gets shit for it. He thus excuses a president with the moral fiber of a flea.
You're a disgusting person, and I know it isn't just ignorance.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:07PM
Trump's taste is not the issue. Nor is his enjoyment of women's beauty, clothed or otherwise.
The problem is that he is imposing himself on them in a manner that violates their privacy without their consent.
--
🎶When you're down by the sea
And an eel bites your knee🎶
🎶That's a moray
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:50PM (1 child)
It's more likely he was beamed up by aliens and replaced with a vat-grown clone.
Look, there's one solution to this: tell the feds that if they don't hang those implicated in the Epstein case, they themselves will suffer the fate due all such pedophiles: hanging by the neck until dead. Either they do their jobs and bring the rich and powerful pedophiles to justice, or the citizenry will do its job and bring them all to justice.
Enough is enough. If we citizens can't even get the feds to defend our children against depredation, then those feds must be forcibly removed and new guards of our freedom put in place.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:57PM
FTFY
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:01PM
Trump would have had to hire someone with bigger hands to choke Epstein.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:47AM (14 children)
After seeing the suicide report, I speculated something I haven't seen anywhere else (yet) -- what if this was a faked suicide? Has anyone seen the body, has there been positive ID (by who??)
Epstein was rich and well connected, he's got everything to gain by slipping away to somewhere in the Caribbean, or maybe to SE Asia where sex tourism has been widely reported.
But I didn't post this anywhere--you see it here first(grin).
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @11:51AM (8 children)
Ooooh, that's a good one! Five NSA-free Internets for you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:08PM
Just where are you keeping those NSA-free Internets?
Are they in your pocket, since they must be very small?!!
Meanwhile Epstein is basking in the sun, with kiddies tending to his _every_ need...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:12PM (3 children)
Don't worry, the NSA will never identify C0lo.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:15PM (2 children)
My mad admin powers tell me it wasn't culo.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:13PM (1 child)
Careful mister buzztard with the spelling of those nicks, will yea? (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @05:59PM
He meant sudo.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:57PM (2 children)
NSA-free internet sounds almost like: Free internet from the NSA !
Oh, wait . . . maybe I just gave them an idea.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:04PM (1 child)
Naw, it's run by the IRS instead and I had to pay for it. The telco lobbies would never stand for the government giving away free Internet.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:21PM
Maybe the telcos could secretly be "nationalized" and run by NSA. Maybe levels of service would improve. Another idea would be to let the likes of Facebook provide free internet, like they wanted to do in India.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday August 14 2019, @12:41PM (2 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:45PM (1 child)
That didn't take long...
I hope he is in the witness protection program, even hope more Seth Rich is there too. But I doubt it. They are probably both dead and Julian Assange is dying of some neglected health ailment in a jail cell somewhere.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 14 2019, @08:26PM
If they really want to get you, maybe the witless protection program won't help.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:25PM (1 child)
Yup, and now all the reports of falsified guard reports coming in, jailhouse video evidence (which could never be faked, right?)
We're living in the disinformation age.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 14 2019, @04:52PM
Yes, so nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday August 14 2019, @01:51PM (1 child)
> before Snowden leaked all those documents, the NSA spying on everyone was a conspiracy theory too.
Even before the Snowden leak - let's not forget the intelligence reports that led to the second Iraq war, the so-called "Dodgy Dossier".
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday August 14 2019, @02:07PM
Me, I knew about it well before Snowden but nobody believed me when I told them. My little brother worked not fifty feet from the NSA room in the MCI offices that asking about or looking at crossways would get you summarily fired.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Wednesday August 14 2019, @06:29PM
Agree. But now that the Clinton-related conspiracy has been widely recirculated, and a Trump-related one fabricated for lulz, nobody is going to pay attention to anything else. I'll bet at least one investigative journalist has been told to cancel an Epstein story because it would be immediately associated with all the cranks.
If I were going to perpetrate a conspiracy of this scale, I'd definitely be in the market for any politically-motivated false conspiracies to distract people.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?