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posted by martyb on Tuesday January 11, @07:32PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the use-it-or-lose-it dept.

Report: Lufthansa Group Confirmed That 18,000 Flights Had Been Flown Empty To Keep Airport Slots - Airlive:

[...] Under these "use it or lose it" regulations, prior to the pandemic carriers had to utilise at least 80pc of their scheduled take-off and landing slots.

This was revised to 50pc as coronavirus saw travel become increasingly difficult – but airlines are still struggling to hit this target.

As a result of Lufthansa Group's latest figures, the Belgian federal government has written to the European Commission, calling for a change to the rules on maintaining slots.


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(1)
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @07:46PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @07:46PM (#1211876)

    Set up a lottery for vaccinated people that lets them win a free trip on one of these flights, so the airplanes won't be empty. Bonus: anti-vaxxers will have something new to complain about.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Snotnose on Tuesday January 11, @09:15PM (3 children)

      by Snotnose (1623) on Tuesday January 11, @09:15PM (#1211922)

      I actually like this idea. It costs $x to fly an mt plane from point A to point B. You need $y percent capacity to make a profit. Carrying passengers who aren't paying (e.g. dead weight) really costs you nothing (how much does a, um, pick a plane, any plane. 747). A 747 weighs 400,000 pounds mt carrying 1 average american (250 lbs). We haven't even gotten to the fuel cost. The American is essentially free compared to the fuel/gate fees.

      Average non-American, drop the dead weight by 40 kilos, and the math really doesn't change much. Except for the pounds to kilos, which most 'mericans can't do.

      Turns out it's actually profitable to carry the average American for free from point A to point B to keep your gate slot

      --
      Dark humor is like food: not everyone gets it.
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Snotnose on Tuesday January 11, @09:46PM (2 children)

        by Snotnose (1623) on Tuesday January 11, @09:46PM (#1211934)

        There I go again. mt = empty, I was a welder in my teen years and it's a habit I can't seem to break in my retirement years.

        for those of you who don't follow me (and really, why would you?) welders mark empty tanks mt. I can't seem to break the habit. My bad, so sorry.

        --
        Dark humor is like food: not everyone gets it.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:49PM (#1211968)

          No worries, I just assumed it was some texting slang that slipped in.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @03:45PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @03:45PM (#1212135)

          No worries, I just assumed it was another boring asshole thinking everyone's interested in their shitty personal story they tack onto every interaction. My bad.

    • (Score: 1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @10:32PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @10:32PM (#1211952)

      Fully vaccinated and even boosted people are the majority of COVID infections now, Einstein. Omicron sees your vaccines and raises.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:04PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:04PM (#1211956)

        Gotta admire the confidence to let everyone know how dumb you are!

      • (Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:12PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:12PM (#1211961)

        What do hospitalization and death rates look like for those groups?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @01:13AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @01:13AM (#1211983)

        You don't know what you're missing out on man. I just had my 15th booster. Vaxx is the only way to fly.

        Alternatively, my bourgeois interests are advanced by waves of sweet Malthusian death, so I got vaccinated so that I could go maskless and spread it to more old, useless proles who just sit on social security leaching my tax dollars.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @03:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @03:50PM (#1212136)

          > leaching my their tax dollars that they paid into their whole life

          FTFY

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @11:45AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @11:45AM (#1212071)

        And it only took vaccinating over 80% of the population to break even. That means the unvaccinated are five times more likely to become infected than vaccinated, which we knew.

    • (Score: 2) by NateMich on Wednesday January 12, @12:22AM (2 children)

      by NateMich (6662) on Wednesday January 12, @12:22AM (#1211975)

      I don't understand the need to bring the vaccines into this. The vaccines aren't preventing the spread of the virus.

      Sure, they help you recover and maybe prevent you from getting seriously ill, but it doesn't make it wise to travel just because you have the vaccine.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:18PM (#1212147)

        I propose that we limit posting on SoylentNews to those vaccinated against stupidity.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @07:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @07:08PM (#1212190)

        "Sure, they help you recover and maybe prevent you from getting seriously ill"

        no they don't, you retarded slave.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by AnonTechie on Tuesday January 11, @07:59PM (25 children)

    by AnonTechie (2275) on Tuesday January 11, @07:59PM (#1211880) Journal

    'Ghost flights': why are so many empty airplanes still taking off? [thebulletin.be]

    “If we look at the 18,000 flights that the Lufthansa group will have to operate empty, 18,000 intra-European flights emit about 700,000 tonnes of CO2,” said Noé Lecocq, climate expert at Inter Environnement Wallonie.

    “These 700,000 tonnes of CO2 will cause, if we follow the historical trend, the definitive disappearance of two million square metres of additional Arctic ice pack.”

    Not forcing airlines to make these empty flights would be a “plus” for the planet, Lecocq says, even if “these flights would have taken place in the normal way with passengers if the health situation was not as it is and the pollution would have been the same.”

    --
    Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday January 11, @08:08PM (23 children)

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday January 11, @08:08PM (#1211883) Journal

      Somebody is making a profit, no need to change anything, if those airplanes don't fly, fuel isn't being bought, taxes and fees aren't being paid. Please, consider the bureaucrats and the ones they serve

      --
      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday January 11, @08:11PM (17 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday January 11, @08:11PM (#1211887)

        Flight crews and maintenance workers laid off, not to mention the supply chain that produces a reliable steady stream of aircraft maintenance items suddenly backing up with oversupply.

        Sometimes it is cheaper, overall, to do something stupid looking like keeping the trains running even when they are empty.

        --
        "You're all f-cking peasants as far as I can see."
        John Lennon (also sung by David Bowie) Working Class Hero
        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday January 11, @08:32PM

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday January 11, @08:32PM (#1211907) Journal

          We have to run them empty to maintain the appearance of "shortage" and keep prices up.

          *What the market will bear...*

          --
          Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by tekk on Tuesday January 11, @09:00PM (15 children)

          by tekk (5704) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 11, @09:00PM (#1211917)

          How is it cheaper to run ghost flights than to just pay them to stay home?

          • (Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday January 11, @11:12PM (1 child)

            by legont (4179) on Tuesday January 11, @11:12PM (#1211960)

            If it just comes down to money, hedge funds could "invest" by buying slots outright for the foreseeable future. Requiring actual flight operations greatly reduces feasibility of such an attack.

            --
            "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday January 12, @03:19AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 12, @03:19AM (#1212014) Journal

              If it just comes down to money, hedge funds could "invest" by buying slots outright for the foreseeable future.

              There's an unpopular word for that, "scalpers".

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by deimtee on Wednesday January 12, @01:03AM (9 children)

            by deimtee (3272) on Wednesday January 12, @01:03AM (#1211982) Journal

            It's not a matter of cheaper. They have some sort of religious fear of paying people without making them work for it.
            Fuck the environment, they'd rather double their costs wasting fuel and materials than even consider something that looks remotely like a UBI.

            --
            No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
            • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday January 12, @03:30AM (5 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 12, @03:30AM (#1212016) Journal
              I have a couple of reasonable concerns:

              1) that shit won't get done if we throw everyone on UBI.

              2) that we create a destructive dynamic where people loot the future by voting for ever higher UBI.
              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by deimtee on Wednesday January 12, @06:14AM (4 children)

                by deimtee (3272) on Wednesday January 12, @06:14AM (#1212040) Journal

                1) that shit won't get done if we throw everyone on UBI.

                What shit? The point of this story is that shit that didn't need to be done was being done, and simply wasting resources.

                2) that we create a destructive dynamic where people loot the future by voting for ever higher UBI.

                You can't loot the future, it's not here yet. Much more likely you'd end up trying to loot the ruling class. Since they are the ones in charge, and have long had experience in protecting their wealth, I don't see the problem.

                --
                No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
                • (Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Wednesday January 12, @06:25AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 12, @06:25AM (#1212043) Journal

                  The point of this story is that shit that didn't need to be done was being done, and simply wasting resources.

                  Not by Lufthansa. They employed people to protect valuable assets - access to those gates.

                  You can't loot the future, it's not here yet.

                  We're already doing it. Most public pensions are classic examples. So are the large debts that most countries have.

                  Much more likely you'd end up trying to loot the ruling class.

                  What does the ruling class own? And how are you going to "loot" that in a way that doesn't partially or fully destroy the value of that asset?

                • (Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Wednesday January 12, @03:43PM (2 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday January 12, @03:43PM (#1212133) Journal
                  To elaborate on my previous post, we don't actually have an example of waste in this story. As I mentioned already, Lufthansa is securing assets for the future. From the point of view of the airport operator, this is a demonstration of fitness - showing that Lufthansa is interested in maintaining those airport slots. It's only the CO2 emissions are really considered waste, and well, there's just not that much of it.

                  My take is that this can be resolved to most peoples' satisfaction by increasing the rent significantly for airport slots that aren't in use (thus demonstrating that fitness without the waste of CO2 emissions) with a reverting to the traditional model once things settle down.
                  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 13, @03:19AM (1 child)

                    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 13, @03:19AM (#1212306)

                    > the CO2 emissions are really considered waste, and well, there's just not that much of it.

                    And the fuel to make those emissions which is still coming from non renewable sources. Also the hours wear and tear on the jet engines, which uses significant resources to maintain.

                    > this is a demonstration of fitness

                    Like "flexing" by purchasing an NFT?

                    --
                    "You're all f-cking peasants as far as I can see."
                    John Lennon (also sung by David Bowie) Working Class Hero
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday January 13, @03:22AM

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday January 13, @03:22AM (#1212308) Journal

                      And the fuel to make those emissions which is still coming from non renewable sources. Also the hours wear and tear on the jet engines, which uses significant resources to maintain.

                      Yep, not much.

                      Like "flexing" by purchasing an NFT?

                      Nope.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @11:48AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @11:48AM (#1212073)

              As stated in the headline (do people even read those anymore?) these flights were required to keep their airport landing slots. Those slots are strictly 'use it or lose it' and losing your slot means that you can't land at that airport anymore. I shouldn't need to say why losing access to a major hub is a Bad Thing™.

              • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Wednesday January 12, @03:12PM (1 child)

                by deimtee (3272) on Wednesday January 12, @03:12PM (#1212117) Journal

                That is not some unbreakable natural law of the universe. Its an administrative rule that could be easily adjusted. Certainly be a lot cheaper and more environmentally friendly to modify a rule than to make 18000 unnecessary flights.

                --
                No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @03:58PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @03:58PM (#1212139)

                  Wouldn't it be better to make 18000 unnecessary rules to ensure the right people get paid?

          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @10:10AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @10:10AM (#1212059)

            1. Pilots have to get their hours to keep flying. Whether the airline is paying for simulator time or air time, they are paying for it. If pilots lapse, it requires even more pilot time to get them back where they can legally fly.

            2. If you lose your airport slot and then need to fly those flights again in the future, you are either buying/leasing the slot from your competitors or hoping that someone else loses their slot and it gets reallocated to you at the start of an upcoming season because you are no longer at the back of the line.

            3. Airlines often purchase things using contracts/futures. It can be cheaper to just buy the minimum and fly rather than trying to resell or renegotiate after breaking the contract.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @12:02PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @12:02PM (#1212075)

              1. Microsoft Flight Simulator is certified for simulator time. Every professional pilot has a copy and a dedicated simulator PC at home. They only use company simulators for type certification these days since that still requires a full cockpit. Flying hours during the pandemic have largely been kept by renting GA aircraft at the pilot's expense.
              2. This is the reason. Full stop.
              3. It is cheaper to resell, store, or throw out surplus supplies than fly.

              The majority of commercial aircraft have been grounded for two years due to the pandemic.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @11:42PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @11:42PM (#1212246)

                Microsoft Flight Simulator is not certified for simulator time. But even if the software was approved, you have to have approved hardware to go with it. And not all of their proficiency and training can be done in a simulator either.

                It isn't always cheaper to resell, store, or discard. You have to find legal space to store your supplies that you can't sell. The stuff you can sell is going to be at a loss. And once you break those contracts, you have to renegotiate them in the future which can cost you a lot in the long term.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by shrewdsheep on Tuesday January 11, @09:08PM (4 children)

        by shrewdsheep (5215) on Tuesday January 11, @09:08PM (#1211919)

        Ever heard of the broken window fallacy?

        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday January 11, @10:07PM

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Tuesday January 11, @10:07PM (#1211944) Journal

          Yes, doesn't matter, does it? People have to get paid, this is how they want to do it. Cynicism is built into the system

          --
          Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday January 12, @02:51AM (2 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday January 12, @02:51AM (#1212006)

          If there's a steady stream of broken windows, and a billion dollar annual supply chain industry feeding the window repairs, then: magically windows stop breaking for a year, but are most likely going to resume breaking at some point in the future, do you disband the entire industry, retire and retrain the workers, sell the factories, scrap the machinery that can't be repurposed, then spend ten billion dollars over five years rebuilding it all to start supplying replacement windows again when they are needed?

          NASA has this problem with their rocket scientists - the funding tends to be boom and bust, but if you shut the program the workers will move on with their lives and it might take 20 years to rebuild a similar program once the existing one is shutdown.

          Yeah, the planes could be parked, the fuel (and CO2 emissions) could be saved, the factories could be idled and just continue paying salaries to the workers all the way from the hub mechanics to the titanium miners, and that would be better for everyone everywhere - but our management layers aren't that flexible, or smart.

          --
          "You're all f-cking peasants as far as I can see."
          John Lennon (also sung by David Bowie) Working Class Hero
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:06PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:06PM (#1212143)

            NASA has this problem with their rocket scientists - the funding tends to be boom and bust, but if you shut the program the workers will move on with their lives and it might take 20 years to rebuild a similar program once the existing one is shutdown.

            This has already been solved in the scientific community. Keep a steady flow of single-use grad students coming through and, when the funding arrives, give a few of them a promotion to $50k/yr on a 2 yr contract + responsibility to deliver the dream. It means only retaining a few permanent managers, sorry professors, to check emails and read the news.

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday January 13, @03:11AM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday January 13, @03:11AM (#1212302)

              Do post docs get $50k these days?

              I had 12 years experience with a MS, making $100k in 2003 when my company tanked in the 9-11 aftershocks. Asked about doing the work a rotating parade of post-docs had been doing for a colleague. These guys with PhD+5 and up were lucky to get $35k/yr back then. I was shocked, but I guess I made the right choice turning down the PhD TA offer.

              --
              "You're all f-cking peasants as far as I can see."
              John Lennon (also sung by David Bowie) Working Class Hero
    • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @10:52AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @10:52AM (#1212064)

      two million square metres

      Just imagine how many square feet that is! Don't even try imagining the number in square inch, it gets too scary.
      On the other hand, it's just 374 football fields (including "end zones", I'm not sure if that's how you measure in FFs).
      Or 2 square kilometers (you know, the measuring unit for areas anything bigger than a backyard).
      But "2" is boring. Who likes reading boring stuff?!

      1.67e-07 (0.00000017 or 0.000017 percent) of the Arctic ice pack surface (12.19 million square kilometers, https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/) [nsidc.org]
      The lost volume (or mass) percentage, is much much much lower than that (because the lost surface is where the ice was very thin).
      I can't calculate that precisely, but I'd say Lufthansa won't be able to melt it all before the Sun burns out.

      So Lufthansa flying empty doesn't affect global warning almost at all. Similar, the difference between people owning/driving SUVs vs. compact cars. I don't have a SUV because of the too high cost/benefit (and because SUV owners tend to be assholes and I don't want to look like one of them); doesn't have anything to do with global warming.

      Global warming is caused by energy "production" (electricity and heating) and big industry. People could reduce "big industry" by changing their lifestyle (buy less fancy stuff); this is going to happen sometime after the Sun burns out. Energy production could be greener for instance by switching to nuclear; for this to happen, people have to get to be wiser than "I don't mind driving around" (high risk of dying), "Perhaps I'm a bit anxious when I get into an airplane" (low risk of dying), "I don't want nuclear because it's dangerous" (very low risk of dying).

      if we follow the historical trend

      people won't be wiser even after the Sun burns out.

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by DrkShadow on Tuesday January 11, @08:10PM (10 children)

    by DrkShadow (1404) on Tuesday January 11, @08:10PM (#1211886)

    calling for a change to the rules on maintaining slots.

    Maintaining "slots". Whatever those are. (Pull the handle, win a prize?)

    How about... just not? If you have to fly empty planes to maintain your "slots" then you clearly don't need those slots. Let them lapse.

    If society has to shoulder the costs of flying those planes (tax credits to airlines for non-full flights), the environmental cost of those flights (... omfg), the noise pollution, the business profits - just shut these businesses down completely. Maybe allow one airline to run on alternating months. Fine them into oblivion for environmental destruction. Deny them the purchase of fuel from fossil fuel providers. Charge them with funding terrorism for buying fossil fuels from rogue states.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday January 11, @08:14PM (8 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday January 11, @08:14PM (#1211890)

      If they let their slots lapse, then by the rules BOZOAIR will be able to come in and take the open slots and the carriers who have reliably serviced the routes for decades will not be allowed to regain the slots when business recovers. By the rules. The over simple rules that never considered something like a long term temporary dramatic downturn in air travel.

      --
      "You're all f-cking peasants as far as I can see."
      John Lennon (also sung by David Bowie) Working Class Hero
      • (Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Tuesday January 11, @08:25PM

        by PiMuNu (3823) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 11, @08:25PM (#1211898)

        And then, like the worst "Slot Trolls" sell them back to Lufthansa for $Profit.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @08:27PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @08:27PM (#1211900)

        Damn, if only the rule weren't set in stone millennia ago... wait, rules? not commandments? so like we can change them? hmm...

        • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @10:16PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @10:16PM (#1211947)

          so like we can change them?

          Um, this is Europe. It's easier to emigrate

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:50PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 11, @11:50PM (#1211969)

            As long as you are the right color, I suppose. I've saw the great welcome you guys rolled out for those people coming up from Greece.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @12:55AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @12:55AM (#1211980)

              Welcome to America!

              Love your gyros!

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday January 12, @03:50AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday January 12, @03:50AM (#1212019)

          Yeah, like we change all the rules every 4 years when a new figurehead is installed in the Oval office and he swings his big phallic symbol on the executive orders... except, that's all theater, things change more slowly in the real world.

          --
          "You're all f-cking peasants as far as I can see."
          John Lennon (also sung by David Bowie) Working Class Hero
      • (Score: 5, Touché) by DrkShadow on Tuesday January 11, @09:24PM

        by DrkShadow (1404) on Tuesday January 11, @09:24PM (#1211925)

        Then you're saying that another airline _is_ servicing this route, and justifiably needs the routes?

        Whatever shall we do....

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:10PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:10PM (#1212145)

        > never considered something like a long term temporary dramatic downturn in air travel

        The whole industry is based on boom and bust. Literally the whole thing is boom and bust. Plus me likey the boom boom.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 13, @07:36AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 13, @07:36AM (#1212357)

      I am sort of leaning toward one proposed solution that has been working its way through the various systems instead of getting the slots and then treating them like property. First part of it is that slots expire every six months. Second, they get allocated according to the current formula, same as if a company hadn't met its 80% requirement. Third, slots cannot be sold or leased but can serviced by other airlines. Fourth, each slot has a fee for owning and on each use with more popular slots getting higher fees. Fifth is that there is a refund for early surrender based on peak travel. There are also smaller details like servicing limits, utilization requirements, and some other things that slip my mind.

      Together, these will result in less empty flights and more flights at better times. But a number of the large airlines paid big money for their slots and make big money leasing them or codesharing so the actual proposition is dead on arrival despite its support from other groups.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:18PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 12, @04:18PM (#1212148)

    maybe it's just laws that aren't "pandamic ready" but it would stand to reason that if clubbermint freezes air travel that "airport slots" auto-freeze too?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 13, @12:15AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 13, @12:15AM (#1212255)

      n/t

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