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posted by hubie on Friday May 13, @10:56PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the somebody's-watching-you dept.

From Malware Bytes Blog

On May 11, 2022, the EU will publicize a proposal for a law on mandatory chat control. The European Commission wants all providers of email, chat and messaging services to search for suspicious messages in a fully automated way and forward them to the police in the fight against child pornography.

[...] Similar developments are taking place in the US and the supporting narrative has expanded from domestic terrorism to other illegal content and activity, such as child sexual exploitation and abuse, terrorism, foreign adversaries‚ and attempts to undermine democratic values and institutions.

[...] What most, if not all, of these activities have in common is that you usually won't see the criminals using the same platforms as those of us that want to stay in touch with friends and relatives. They are already conducting their "business" in illegal marketplaces on the Dark Web, or they are using encrypted phone services.

[...] Since client-side scanning technologies may represent the most powerful surveillance system ever imagined, it is imperative that we find a way to make them abuse-resistant and auditable before we decide to start using them. Failures from the past have taught us that it's often the other way around. We learn from our mistakes, but how costly are they?

Also at:
    The Guardian
    Patrick Breyer


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 13, @11:05PM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 13, @11:05PM (#1244832)

    Then we can shut down the NSA and rely on client side scanning to identify the terrorists, pedophiles and transvestites.

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 14, @02:29AM (9 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @02:29AM (#1244873) Journal

      But we already know what Lindsey Graham looks like...!

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:55AM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:55AM (#1244889)

        That, ladies and gentlemen (and gender non-binaries and whatever) is why I will never vote for a Democrat.

        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:33AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:33AM (#1244898)

          So you look away from all the unsavory trolling of Joe, Chuck, Nancy and AOC that occurs on this forum?

          Dish it out but can't take it? How very one-eyed.

          • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:47AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:47AM (#1244910)

            I'm referring to real life, not your mom's basement gamer's fantasy world. In real life, most Democrats and their mass media mouthpieces are as boorish as 'zuma.

        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 14, @05:12AM (1 child)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @05:12AM (#1244901) Journal

          Why, because they hurt your pwecious fee-fees?

          What is it like to be so weak, so pathetic, so completely without a spine and and a pair of gonads of your choice, that mere words on the internet harm you?

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:43AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:43AM (#1244907)

            Said the pot to the kettle.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:00PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:00PM (#1244977)

          How very salty of you. Personally I hope the dirt the Russians have on Lindsay is kust thst he is gay and not a child abuser. High larry us that you rightwigers are so blindrd by party loyalty you refuse to see reality.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @09:23PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @09:23PM (#1245012)

            Republican voters are not blind to Graham. Most I think would love to replace that backstabber. He did everything he could to sink the President belonging to his own party. Graham is, like most of the high-level GOP, just another member of The Grifters. "Conservative" for show, pro-graft Uniparty member in action.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @10:17PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @10:17PM (#1245021)

              Thanks, I guess we've been hoping that the less worrisome scenario was true, Republicans are happy cows eating their propagandafeed. Sadly that seems to not be the case. Republicans know how evil their leaders are and they pretend they are rifhteous because their corrupt pastors scream politics at them instead of guiding people towards the teachings of Jesus.

              Yes, you are the baddies marching anti-democratic fascism across the country while deceiving yourself that you're the moral majority. No, "both sides" is not a valid excuse. Own your fascism, the GOP is no longer hiding it, and only McCain and Romney seem to have enough conscience to care.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, @09:09AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, @09:09AM (#1245070)

                All those millions of Hispanics crossing the border are bring one heck of a lot of support for Jesus with them. Are you scared of them?

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Opportunist on Saturday May 14, @12:02AM (2 children)

    by Opportunist (5545) on Saturday May 14, @12:02AM (#1244841)

    The question is, how do we make them useless. Because that makes everyone happy, they think they have done "something" and we can still have our privacy. Everyone wins, everyone is happy, nothing gets done.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by loonycyborg on Saturday May 14, @12:08PM

      by loonycyborg (6905) on Saturday May 14, @12:08PM (#1244954)

      Trigger matches on purpose to overload the system with so much work it wouldn't be possible to pretend that it's doable. If millions of people willingly distribute some CP image(or an image with a hash engineered to coincide with a known CP image) as form of protest then no way they gonna prosecute them all.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, @04:15PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, @04:15PM (#1245135)

      providers of email, chat and messaging

      Run an email server and an XMPP server. Make accounts for your friends and relatives and encourage them to move away from the "providers".

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @12:03AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @12:03AM (#1244842)

    That "gov't" want to mandate service providers to strengthen their monitoring? That client-side monitoring needs to be more strictly regulated?

    ???

    • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:49AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:49AM (#1244887)

      That innocent people are being pulled into a dragnet when we need to start with people in positions of power. [newyorker.com]

      Proles do as they please, the inner party is subject to surveillance!

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Saturday May 14, @12:20AM (4 children)

    by sjames (2882) on Saturday May 14, @12:20AM (#1244847) Journal

    For the vast majority of us, they have no probable cause, not even reasonable suspicion. So why should they be allowed to snoop on our communications at all?

    And let me guess, the various authorities will not be sharing source code nor algorithm much less proof that the binaries actually came from un-altered audited source.

    Meanwhile, with all the open attempts to undermine democratic values and institutions going on in D.C. they must be getting whiplash from looking away so conscientiously. There's no need to scan our email, just turn on the evening news and it's all right there.

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by stretch611 on Saturday May 14, @01:35AM (1 child)

      by stretch611 (6199) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @01:35AM (#1244858)

      to search for suspicious messages in a fully automated way and forward them to the police in the fight against child pornography.

      Because, think of the children. That is the go to answer whenever they try to take away rights on the internet.
      Why do you hate children so much that you can even ask this?

      Why do you think that your privacy should matter against the common good of children? After all you need to take responsibility, otherwise who will protect these children, their parents? God knows, they did the hard part and gave birth as well as giving the children open internet and a TV to babysit them while they ignore their own kids. What, do you expect parents to actually take responsibility and attempt to actually protect their kids from predators?

      --
      Vaccinated, boosted (twice), and still expecting to be asked to roll up my sleeve again in the fall
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16, @09:14AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 16, @09:14AM (#1245271)

        There's plenty of evidence that those in power don't actually seem serious on catching and punishing the worst culprits.

        Currently it's as if they're more interested in punishing those who watch porn than punishing actual rapists.

        Many may believe those who watch porn are bad, disgusting, etc but so far there's no clear correlation between viewing porn and rape or sexual assault:

        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178909000445 [sciencedirect.com]
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178918302404 [sciencedirect.com]

        So similarly is there any evidence that pedos who view child porn are more likely to rape children than pedos who don't?

        It seems more believable that pedos with power and/or position are more likely to actually harm and rape children - since their power and/or position can protect them from the consequences.

        So I suggest that the phones etc of those at the top are the ones that be regularly screened for such stuff.

        As for "market for child porn", just follow the money then? The MPAA, RIAA etc claim that copyright infringement kills their industries so the ones watching porn for free with adblockers are helping to kill the porn industry. So similarly distributing porn for free via torrents is a good thing right? ;)

        Lastly speaking of thinking of the children if we truly wanted to protect children we should regulate parenthood a lot better. At the moment any idiot can have kids. And the problem nowadays seems to be lots more irresponsible idiots are having kids. Just a quick look at sponsor a child sites will show you that most of the kids aren't orphans (in many cases BOTH parents are around) - it's just their parents are irresponsible idiots who produced kids without being able to feed and raise them properly. We should be sponsoring vasectomies instead of "sponsoring children" e.g. you get a vasectomy and we give you USD500. The short sighted desperate ones will take the deal and those are exactly the ones who should get it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @06:54AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @06:54AM (#1244921)

      There's no need to scan our email

      But her emails.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:21AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:21AM (#1244927)

        There's no need to scan our email

        But her emails.

        Only if she's Hillary! [wikipedia.org]

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by lentilla on Saturday May 14, @01:39AM (4 children)

    by lentilla (1770) on Saturday May 14, @01:39AM (#1244859)

    Two items:

    • When they say "client-side scanning", perhaps they mean "server-side scanning"? Unless they really do mean "client-side", in which case the best way to do this would be to install a key-logger and scanner on every computer.
    • We appear to be fighting two battles and they become conflated and confused: the first is catching paedophiles and the second is protecting children from paedophiles.

    The second is reasonably easily solved: ban children from the Internet. Children don't get to drive cars, you don't expect to see them in nightclubs at 2am, and when you see them in a beer garden they are in the company of a responsible adult. Human society has been able to keep children separate from the adult world for millennia, and yet we still have a cohesive society and children's human rights have not been impinged. What is so different about the Internet? Young children should not be using the Internet (at least not in the driving seat). Older children should be supervised (like training wheels) as they grow up so that by the time they are teenagers they are mostly OK. We can't (and shouldn't) attempt to supervise every moment of a teenager's life - as adults our job is to listen, advise if necessary and help pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong. This applies whether it is walking home from school, spending time in the library or with friends, and it should also apply to the Internet. The Internet is a place for adults, children can be welcome - as in other adult spaces - providing they behave in an adult-like fashion.

    Catching paedophiles is a matter of good-old-fashioned police work. Scanning everyone's mail will result in a lot of leads, some convictions, and a tonne of false-positives (ruining reputations left, right and centre). The obvious method is to turn convicted paedophiles into "undercover informants". Let them loose in their ugly little pond and use them to dredge up (and convict) their buddies.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by janrinok on Saturday May 14, @08:27AM (1 child)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @08:27AM (#1244934) Journal

      I agree with much of what you say - but when schools insist that homework involves internet research then the parents are tied to a supervisory role at study times.

      There might be security reasons why giving some children phones is a good idea, but try finding a modern phone that doesn't have the internet. Yes, I know that they exist but will would need a massive shift in our day-to-day lives if we expect children to accept them willingly.

      When I was young neither I nor my friends were able to buy pornography but you can bet your last dollar that we all some at various times. Children will always find a way. Maybe that is the parents' fault, but when they are both working just to put food on the table then they cannot be everywhere at once.

      --
      We are always looking for new staff in different areas - please volunteer if you have some spare time and wish to help
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:50PM (#1244987)

        School shouldn't require the Internet beyond learning to use the internet. There are tons of issues that come up from lack of access in some homes to cyber bullying and outright pedo grooming.

        That being said, things are probably less dangerous now in most respects than they were, but still. There's a reason why kids should be supervised online.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by pTamok on Saturday May 14, @01:45PM

      by pTamok (3042) on Saturday May 14, @01:45PM (#1244970)

      Banning minors from the Internet strikes me as an excellent idea. You can start using it when you are old enough to vote/drink alcohol/use tobacco products/die for your country/have sex/get married/take out a loan/take responsibility for your actions. What is not to like?

      Obviously the ban will be porous as teenagers have always be able to obtain illicit items, via older siblings and older members of their peer group and 'helpful' adult contacts.

      Of course, there is a small technical problem: how does one determine the age of someone using the Internet? Especially if you want to offer any form of quasi-anonymity?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, @04:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 15, @04:21PM (#1245137)

      key-logger and scanner on every computer

      If you count phones as computers, the job is already done. They just need laws to force Google and Apple to share the precious data.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @01:56AM (17 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @01:56AM (#1244862)

    This joins my list of things people will do that someone else doesn't want them to do...

    + Pee in the pool

    + Violate copyright

    + Lie

    + Didn't Park in a designated area.

    + Smoked

    + DisRespect Authority.

    We are basically instructing everyone to do as you will, no such thing as ethics or accountability to God... All that matters is don't get caught.

    • (Score: 2, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 14, @02:30AM (16 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @02:30AM (#1244874) Journal

      Which God? Think carefully about how you answer this one, with respect to morality...

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:00AM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:00AM (#1244878)

        Which God?

        The one living rent free in your head.

        Whoops, time to check /r/atheism for today's latest hate on Christians and Jews.

        So many occultists, agnostics, atheists, all have God living rent free in their minds and many probably think more about "God" than some believers do.

        A pity.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:37AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:37AM (#1244885)

          Do you really think you are the victim?

          Honestly?

          Religious nut cases blowing up / shooting up buildings, planes, trains, schoolyards and everyone in them. Religious politicians supporting illegal wars of aggression against Muslim nations, e.g., in the words of Baby Bush, "[The war against Iraq was] a Crusade". Bible thumpers banning books from public libraries and schools. Church ladies on school boards forcing adoption of text books that denigrate science and critical thinking. Jesus freaks murdering physicians and kidnapping their families. Religious crazies getting elected into public office by religious mobs where they shit all over things and try to oppress people of the "wrong" religion / no religion. Oppressing people who just want to mind their own business, but christian fascists try to make their relationships illegal. Religious business owners who force their beliefs on their employees by e.g., restricting the medical procedures / medicines their employer sponsored health plans offer. Christians, pretending to be teachers, trying to force their religious bullshit on students in public schools (personal experience, twice).

          You currently have a supreme court justice who was a member of a christian cult where her title was, "handmaiden". Really. Fucking, "handmaiden". You have a serial rapist and drunk that you also got appointed to the court to "do gods work". They are in the process of stripping rights of 50% of the US population in support of your sky fairy nonsense. You completely control one of the major political parties in the US, and have major influence on the other.

          But *you* are the victim? Get a fucking grip.

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:03AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:03AM (#1244891)

            Oh, so you're okay with the Muslim religious belief that you need to be disemboweled?

             

            • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:45AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:45AM (#1244908)

              > Oh, so you're okay with the Muslim religious belief that you need to be disemboweled?

              They generally give Muslims a pass. It's the same with other fields in the occult too, you know, they give all of these "spiritualists" a pass. But not God, as He is sealed in their minds forever and they cannot stand it. 24/7, rent free. They love to bury posts which disagree with theirs, "if you can't get the message, get the man."

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:22AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @04:22AM (#1244896)

            Do you really think you are the victim?

            LOL Your post is funny. Rent. Fucking. Free. GOD IN YOUR HEAD! And there's nothing you can do about it but bitch and moan.

            Rant/cry harder!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:32AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:32AM (#1244903)

            > But *you* are the victim?

            You can bury posts as much as you want but it won't remove GOD from your mind.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:56AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:56AM (#1244914)

              There is only one person running around and screaming about something in his mind so far, and that person is you. How long you've been hearing those voices in your head? Have you tried to seek some help and/or therapy?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:03AM (7 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:03AM (#1244879)

        Probably, he refers to the One who knows all that you do, the One to whom you shall return.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 14, @05:10AM (6 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @05:10AM (#1244900) Journal

          Source isn't conscious the way we think of it though? It's more like the ontological ground of consciousness and the prerequisite for the same...

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:35AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:35AM (#1244904)

            > I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...

            Nah, just another precious snowflake with God sealed in their minds.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 14, @05:46AM (1 child)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @05:46AM (#1244909) Journal

              You are just obsessed with me :) Would be cute if it weren't creepy and gross and probably covered in stale Cheetos crumbs.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:49AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:49AM (#1244912)

                ... with you licking them off of me. This is good, keep it going!

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @06:08AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @06:08AM (#1244916)

            Whatever keeps you from peeing in the pool and defrauding widows and orphans is fine by me. If God doesn't do that much for you, then what's the point of giving him a second thought?

            • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:47PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:47PM (#1245003)

              Because there is something there, but sky fairy theories are worse than useless. Oh let me just suck the big patriarchal dick in the sky and I'll get my 72 virgins! Talk about low vibration. Humans need to learn how to meditate and vibrate higher.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:43PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:43PM (#1245002)

            I like to think of it as a "field," some kind of intrinsic love field. Vibrations in the love field have awareness, but they are not capable of cognition. These vibrations could evolve in symbiosis with material life. Just a conjecture.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday May 19, @09:03AM

        You're over-thinking things.

        OP didn't even specify *whose* pool was being peed in. If that attention to detail is lacking, there's no need to read any further.
        --
        I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:41AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:41AM (#1244906)

    i think this is good. just like dikes are good at places prone to flooding, this will help children grow up safer in pedo-europe ... more rigid, top down laws can only make people more secure and safe.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @06:21AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @06:21AM (#1244918)

    Lemme make this simple for the government to understand.

    I don't run software anymore that I didn't compile, or could have. I won't comply. The second they think they can make me is when the guns are going to come out.

    There is only one answer to "let us bug your phone, PC and every other device." No. Punctuated with extreme violence for the hard of hearing.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by inertnet on Saturday May 14, @12:37PM (1 child)

    by inertnet (4071) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 14, @12:37PM (#1244959)

    Client side scanning enables more government control, because governments are not supposed to be able to control servers that are out of their reach. If governments can define the word list to scan for, they can better monitor their population. So the question who controls the word list makes a big difference before I'll agree to such a privacy infringement.

    Also, those that are being targeted, will start using 'replacement' words for those on the list. Meaning you'll only find the stupid ones and not the really dangerous individuals.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @12:51PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @12:51PM (#1244965)

    Does this mean we will stop seeing children doing public displays from TikTok where they "hump" and gyrate like porno stars?

    Cause, this should be more disturbing but seems to be socially acceptable as, "cute".
    WTF!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:55PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @03:55PM (#1244976)

    The govt shall not use other parties to do things the Constitution prevents it from doing directly.

    If this level of information filtering and collection is reasonable, the government should already be able to do it themselves.
    If not, the 4th ammendment should prevent it and no amount of asking a service provider to do it for them should make the result an un-forbidden fruit.

    Looking at it this way, even the EU doesn't think this is a reasonable thing to search.
    What else explains the smoke and mirrors of asking the service provider to do it, but providing such a loose definition that the only thing a service provider can do is disclose almost everything?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:55PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @05:55PM (#1244988)

      While we're at it, apparently we also need one to indicate that everything the government does everywhere is subject to the constitution. I'm not sure how we can have constitutional rights that don't apply to most Americans in the US and expect the court that made that happen have any legitimacy. Not only is that not literally in the constitution, but it runs completely counter to what common sense would dictate.

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:29PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 14, @07:29PM (#1245000)

    You will never have your freezer peaches and abortions until you also end war. They are going away, because war precludes those things. You need a better use for your excess production than mass murder, destruction, and repression.

    - Keep abortion legal!
    - Against the surveillance state
    - Against war
    - For a shorter workweek
    - For single payer healthcare, including universal access to abortion with no out-of-pocket cost

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