Lawmakers liken TikTok's widening influence in the US to "digital fentanyl":
In September, President Joe Biden announced that TikTok would remain accessible in the US once a deal could be worked out to assuage national security concerns. At that time, Biden said it would take months for his administration to weigh all the potential risks involved in inking the deal. Among detractors of the brewing deal, Senator Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Congressman Mike Gallagher (R-Wis.) emerged, alleging in a Washington Post op-ed that any deal that Biden arranged with the Chinese-owned social media platform "would dangerously compromise national security."
Now, Marco and Gallagher have teamed up with Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-Ill.) to introduce new bipartisan legislation in the Senate and House of Representatives, formally calling for a ban on TikTok. It's the only way, lawmakers feel, that TikTok can truly be stopped from collecting sensitive data on Americans for the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and censoring content to influence elections, sow discord, or potentially even "indoctrinate" users.
[...] The bill—officially known as the ''Averting the National Threat of Internet Surveillance, Oppressive Censorship and Influence, and Algorithmic Learning by the Chinese Communist Party Act'' or the ''ANTI-SOCIAL CCP Act"—is designed to block and prohibit all transactions by social media companies controlled or influenced by "countries of concern." The legislation specifically names TikTok and owner ByteDance as existing national security threats. But if passed, its provisions would also extend to any social media platform controlled by other US foreign adversaries, including Russia, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela.
TikTok spokesperson Brooke Oberwetter told Ars that the company considers the bipartisan legislation most recently introduced "politically motivated."
"It is troubling that rather than encouraging the [Biden] Administration to conclude its national security review of TikTok, some members of Congress have decided to push for a politically motivated ban that will do nothing to advance the national security of the United States," Oberwetter told Ars.
[...] While Congress weighs the ANTI-SOCIAL CCP Act, Oberwetter said that TikTok plans to keep working to persuade US officials that TikTok isn't a national security risk.
"We will continue to brief members of Congress on the plans that have been developed under the oversight of our country's top national security agencies—plans that we are well underway in implementing—to further secure our platform in the United States," Oberwetter told Ars.
Related Stories
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/02/banning-tiktok.html
Congress is currently debating bills that would ban TikTok in the United States. We are here as technologists to tell you that this is a terrible idea and the side effects would be intolerable. Details matter. There are several ways Congress might ban TikTok, each with different efficacies and side effects. In the end, all the effective ones would destroy the free Internet as we know it:
There's no doubt that TikTok and ByteDance, the company that owns it, are shady. They, like most large corporations in China, operate at the pleasure of the Chinese government. They collect extreme levels of information about users. But they're not alone: Many apps you use do the same, including Facebook and Instagram, along with seemingly innocuous apps that have no need for the data. Your data is bought and sold by data brokers you've never heard of who have few scruples about where the data ends up. They have digital dossiers on most people in the United States.
If we want to address the real problem, we need to enact serious privacy laws, not security theater, to stop our data from being collected, analyzed, and sold—by anyone. Such laws would protect us in the long term, and not just from the app of the week. They would also prevent data breaches and ransomware attacks from spilling our data out into the digital underworld, including hacker message boards and chat servers, hostile state actors, and outside hacker groups. And, most importantly, they would be compatible with our bedrock values of free speech and commerce, which Congress's current strategies are not.
Australia will ban tiktok on government devices despite claims by chinese officials that the application is safe to use.
Is any application on a mobile device really safe to use? What personal data do they collect? Where do they send it? Why don't mobile devices come with the firewall enabled?
Australia's top spy agency has added to growing concerns about a popular social media app, and its collection of users' personal data. State governments across the nation are issuing TikTok bans on official work devices as concerns about data safety increase worldwide.
The app's Australian general manager Lee Hunter recently told The Project that users should feel "safe" on TikTok, and claimed China had no way of accessing data – despite the site's parent company operating out of China.
However, national intelligence organisation Australian Signals Directorate (ASD) recently released advice about the app, warning the general public not to use it on a device that can access other information.
"Do not use it on a phone that can access any official information, for example, any workplace communication (email clients, MS Teams)," the ASD warned in advice shared by the Tasmanian government.
Previously:
The 'Insanely Broad' RESTRICT Act Could Ban VPNs in the USA
Banning TikTok
TikTok Would be Banned From US "for Good" Under Bipartisan Bill
President Trump Threatens TikTok Ban, Microsoft Considers Buying TikTok's U.S. Operations[Updated 2]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday December 16 2022, @09:54PM
Install TikTok on your phone.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Insightful) by MIRV888 on Friday December 16 2022, @09:57PM (4 children)
Using social media to influence people is ubiquitous.
When it's done by foreign governments hostile to the US, it becomes a national security issue.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16 2022, @10:39PM
Yeah, I don't want no commies radicalizing our youth. Neo-Nazies only.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Opportunist on Saturday December 17 2022, @10:12AM
Should I interpret that in such a way that the US based antisocial medias are a security threat to the rest of the world?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @10:05PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by MIRV888 on Saturday December 24 2022, @06:39AM
Absolutely. Foreign intelligence agencies are running quite successful ops on existing social networks.
Tiktok gives them what amounts to root access though.
That's a whole 'nother ball game.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Friday December 16 2022, @10:00PM (9 children)
What the CCP doesn't know is that TIk Tokers showing videos of their private parts are far from compromised by release of this "sensitive data."
As for: indoctrinating users, censoring content to influence elections, sowing discord... I understand that the GOP has their own agendae in this area, are they afraid that the CCP is going to beat them and their Russian friends at their own game?
In the world of loaded statements, this: "a politically motivated ban that will do nothing to advance the national security of the United States" brings to mind this twist on an old nugget: "we have nothing to fear but fear of ourselves."
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 16 2022, @10:28PM
The CCP is trying to spread neopronouns [nytimes.com], tide pod challenges, and other bullshit to sabotage the youth. It's working.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday December 17 2022, @08:47PM (7 children)
Are you really that dense? It's a propaganda tool that can also collect blackmail material from idiotic politicians. China has a law that says that "all your data are ours". Get some more coffee, you need it.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 1) by JoeMerchant on Saturday December 17 2022, @09:07PM (6 children)
Anybody dumb enough to allow blackmail material onto Tik Tok doesn't deserve a chance to serve in politics.
As for propaganda, while true, what's the better alternative in today's world, state control of all media?
Personally, I enjoy getting some perspective from RT and Al Jazeera, just realize where they are coming from before you internalize anything they present.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday December 19 2022, @09:42PM (5 children)
Anybody dumb enough to allow blackmail material onto Tik Tok doesn't deserve a chance to serve in politics.
What if it's their kid? An innocent child that doesn't know his dad's a US spy on his way to China? And have you SEEN how absolutely brainless some of our politicians are?
state control of all media?
There are some who would wish that, and in many places, like Russia and China, it's true. But my constitution guarantees freedom of speech and the press. As Al and Russian Trouble, you know where they're coming from, unlike Farsebook posts by oil companies about electric cars with their paid shills talking about how bad EVs are. You think China can't do that? And they don't even have to worry about being banned, like an American big name journalist from Elon's site for twits.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday December 19 2022, @10:24PM (4 children)
>What if it's their kid?
A politician whose voters will shun them for things their child does gets what they deserve.
>An innocent child that doesn't know his dad's a US spy on his way to China?
Watching too many TV series, are we? Again, if you're a spy and China knows enough to target your kid, you're not a very good spy, are you?
>And have you SEEN how absolutely brainless some of our politicians are?
Endlessly astounding what people will vote for, and how quickly they will abandon the values they espoused so loudly for decades when "their team" is caught out not giving a damn about them.
>But my constitution guarantees freedom of speech and the press.
It sure does, and we've got something resembling that, most of the time. This is just a list of some examples where that freedom seems to have come at a high price: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States [wikipedia.org]
>Farsebook posts by oil companies about electric cars with their paid shills talking about how bad EVs are.
I really wonder what percentage of EV charging station "ICEing" by big truck parking, EVs being targeted by people "rolling coal" and similar may be acted out by foreign and/or industry agents encouraging that behavior by the easily identified groups resident in the US that are inclined to do such things... Same goes for outrage against LGBQTVFO groups, the small arms attacks on power stations in the Carolinas, etc. Agents can actually do the things, or post fictionalized accounts of the acts on media like Tic Tok or Fecesbuch or whatever thereby encouraging residents to follow their example.
I recently saw some allegations against PepsiCo (on "Where's my Jet?" on Netflix) that they may have firebombed their own delivery trucks and killed a few of their own workers in the Philipines to defuse a public relations situation where they were looking pretty bad by blaming protesters against them for the violence and killings... whether or not that happened in that particular case, it's certainly an effective spin-doctoring technique that has no doubt been used many times in many situations throughout the world and history.
In the end: Transparency is the answer. The more we have, the less can be hidden...
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday December 20 2022, @03:51PM (3 children)
Again, if you're a spy and China knows enough to target your kid, you're not a very good spy, are you?
How do you know it's targeted? A big enough computer with well designed databases can sift through an awful lot of data really fast. You want another camera, operated by a child, in the hands of China or any other hostile country?
This is just a list of some examples where that freedom seems to have come at a high price:
There's a very old saying: Freedom isn't free. I joined the military despite being unable to be drafted [soylentnews.org] during the Vietnam war. Weapons were aimed at me more than once.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday December 20 2022, @04:03PM (2 children)
>You want another camera, operated by a child, in the hands of China or any other hostile country?
You want global access to news, research results, data and everything else the internet brings? Hostile countries are gonna have that access just like friendly ones. It's no longer Gary Powers in his U2 with exclusive eye in the sky intel for our side only. Welcome to the level playing field.
>Weapons were aimed at me more than once.
I lived in Miami for 20+ years, plenty of weapons brandished and some fired on the streets around me in those years - I decided that rather than arm myself it would be preferable to avoid having the weapons aimed at me.
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday December 25 2022, @05:32PM (1 child)
You want global access to news, research results, data and everything else the internet brings?
Yes, but you won't get it from any closed society like China or Russia. Their populace only sees their government propaganda. I'm not for closing off access to China's or Russia's propaganda but I'm against putting tools of China's spycraft in the hands of American children.
I decided that rather than arm myself it would be preferable to avoid having the weapons aimed at me.
That's wise. Statistics show that gun owners are far more likely to be killed by gunfire than non-owners. If I'd been armed any of the times guns were aimed at me, I'd probably have come home in a box.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday December 25 2022, @06:57PM
>I'm against putting tools of China's spycraft in the hands of American children.
It's going to be a game of whack-a-mole. Information borders are virtually non-existent anymore. Differentiating hostile state supported actors from home grown idiots like Zuckerberg will be extremely challenging, especially when the hostile states can mine the idiots' data.
Rather than farcical regulations, I would propose some kind of monitoring / transparency program where any identifiable service (like TikTok, Facebook, Reddit, etc.) which has more than, say, 10M weekly or more frequently active US users gets active monitoring by US intelligence services who publish regular reports in a well advertised places about their findings. Describe things like: percentage of US users in the forums, where the other users are from, highlight activity like fake news trolling, etc. and make users aware what everyone can see about them... Above all, make these reports accessible: easily understood by the target demographics, the users of the services...
Yeah, or just get a handle on our own politicians who are trying to dismantle the democratic election process, that would be good too...
🌻🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Sjolfr on Friday December 16 2022, @10:16PM (10 children)
Blocking an app from another country is not censorship. It's like a tarrif on Russian goods, a ban on Russian oil, preferring US steel over Chinese streel, etc.. I'm all for taking US money, and information/data, out of CCP hands.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Friday December 16 2022, @11:22PM
Funny you should mention: https://www.wsj.com/articles/wto-rules-against-u-s-tariffs-on-imported-steel-aluminum-11670611598 [wsj.com]
And effect: https://www.reuters.com/article/china-mining-cmrg/chinas-new-state-run-agency-to-start-iron-ore-purchases-bloomberg-news-idUKKBN2T00MX [reuters.com]
compiling...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday December 17 2022, @02:15AM (8 children)
OTOH, blocking a communication app from another country is censorship for real even if it is also like a tariff.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday December 17 2022, @08:52PM (7 children)
How is outlawing quill pens going to stop anyone from using ballpoint pens, pencils, or printing presses? Out of all the stupid social media sites and apps, you truly believe that stopping one FROM AN ADVERSARY WHO WOULD SPY ON US AND VANDALIZE US is censorship?
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday December 17 2022, @11:52PM (6 children)
The obvious rebuttal is that this isn't like outlawing quill pens for several reasons. After all, you can just use those other tools - it's might take a few minutes to dig one up or a few tens of minutes to drive to a store and pick up a replacement. In addition, given the lack of serious reason for banning quill pens, then maybe we should be worrying about them banning those other things next.
You can't so easily transfer your existing speech and community network from one network to another.
YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT IS CENSORSHIP BECAUSE IT IS CENSORSHIP. And the above is a pretty silly rationalization too. One can always invent an adversary to shut down a communication system. For example, we have nefarious True Scotsmen manipulating SN behind the scenes. They're foreigners too so that's plus ungood. That is, if stuff like this passes and survives the courts. My take is that it won't.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18 2022, @01:49AM (1 child)
cntrl-C ... cntrl-V
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday December 18 2022, @08:03AM
Of what? It takes more than that to copy displayed HTML with links and formatting. And that won't copy over your readers and friends.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday December 19 2022, @09:47PM (3 children)
I see everything wrong with censoring US citizens. I see nothing wrong with censoring foreign adversaries.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 20 2022, @02:17AM (2 children)
Are the US citizen users of Tiktok foreign adversaries?
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday December 20 2022, @03:56PM (1 child)
The US citizens aren't being censored any more than Twitter censors twits like Trump. Taking away your Chinese toy doesn't shut anyone up. Your argument insults my intelligence; I apologize if you're simply learning impaired.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 21 2022, @12:02AM
You propose to take away their platform. Of course, they would be censored in that case.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by krishnoid on Friday December 16 2022, @11:36PM (2 children)
Well, actual *fentanyl* fentanyl is still legal, and its antidote is not available over-the-counter. How about starting with that [youtu.be]?
(Score: 3, Touché) by driverless on Saturday December 17 2022, @09:57AM (1 child)
Yeah, but that's good US fentanyl, not this nasty commie crap from China. But we gotta ban Tiktok because all the US digital fentanyl like Fecebook and Twatter hate competition.
Like banning 5G from Huawei so Qualcomm and Cisco have a competitor-free market, your first question in these trade wars always has to be "qui bono?". Or, alternatively, "follow the money", and the money says that Tiktok will continue crushing Fecebook in this market unless the government steps in, as it looks like it's about to do.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Saturday December 17 2022, @09:16PM
Per the video I think fentanyl precursor that arrives south of the border and then across it in its final form is actually sourced from China. But that's just good wholesome Capitalist running-dog free market global trade economics at work.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday December 17 2022, @02:12AM (3 children)
So TikTok and Bytedance are mentioned by name. I wonder if this violates equal protection [cornell.edu] constitutional law? IIRC, US Congress can't pass a law that sticks it to one person or group unless there's some legal relevance to the distinction, but that's what seems to be happening here. For example, Congress can pass laws to tax high income/capital gains and some other indicators of extreme wealth, but they can't throw a tax on Bill Gates specifically.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @04:58AM
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday December 17 2022, @08:59PM (1 child)
How can anything "seem" unconstitutional if you've actually read it? That's like saying a sheet of paper seems white. It's a document. You can read it. I have. There is absolutely nothing in the constitution against barring any foreign country from doing business in our country, but it does specifically bar any federal official from making money or taking money from foreigners, like our previous president did.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday December 17 2022, @11:29PM
I read it superficially and there might be some sort of nuance or consideration I'm missing. Maybe the paragraph isn't legally relevant, for example. Wouldn't be the first law with such in it.
(Score: 2) by EJ on Saturday December 17 2022, @02:34AM
I just wanted to post a dad-joke-style comment. I got nothing.
Well, I got that TikTok is stupid and filled with stupid people doing stupid things.
Get off my lawn, and all that too.
(Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Saturday December 17 2022, @03:31AM (3 children)
Okay look, I'm all for banning things that make people stupid. But honestly, the US political critters really need to lay off their own propaganda here. All I see in TikTok is a platform for retarded teenagers (and even more retarded adults) to share short clips of themselves being retarded with a bad music background and shit video effects. Setting aside that I'm not sure how the Chinese Communist Party could exploit those people's personal data, in what way can that platform be used to "sow discord", "indoctrinate" and "influence elections"? That's some obvious bullshit right there...
(Score: 2) by Username on Saturday December 17 2022, @05:58AM (1 child)
I can understand banning US government officials from using it. That makes sense. But US citizens in general? That just seems like something China would do.
How exactly do they plan to ban US citizen from the internet to stop them from getting to tiktok?
I do understand that those who use tiktok are retarded and will have no idea how to get to tiktok without an apple igenius, but they might be sleeping with an engineer who would know how.
(Score: 1) by GloomMower on Sunday December 18 2022, @09:23PM
> How exactly do they plan to ban US citizen from the internet to stop them from getting to tiktok?
You make google and apple remove it. The reduced usage would be so much even people that side load it would quit using it because no one would be there.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday December 17 2022, @09:59AM
Yup. Like the CCP really care about a bunch of narccisstic teen twerking videos. See my earlier post [soylentnews.org] on the most likely actual reason for the ban.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @04:32AM (4 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @05:17AM (1 child)
The US is slowly making a strategic decision to keep insidious Chinese influence out of America. Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter executives are well within the reach of the FBI, CIA, and NSA. They can cooperate or die in a vehicular accident.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Saturday December 17 2022, @10:15AM
Hey, we don't kill our oligarchs, what do you think this is, Russia?
We make them our beloved and admired leaders.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RamiK on Saturday December 17 2022, @12:35PM
Because TikTok is disrupting the music industry's revenue streams at billions of dollars worth in royalties so all the existing players are displeased:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/05/tiktok-is-upending-the-music-industry-and-spotify-may-be-next.html [cnbc.com]
https://www.billboard.com/pro/music-business-careers-launching-tiktok-jaylin-hawkins-ari-elkins/ [billboard.com]
compiling...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday December 17 2022, @09:02PM
MY constitution has nothing to do with YOUR country's rights. And if they could outlaw ganja, they can outlaw anything but guns, speech, religion, and newspapers.
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Saturday December 17 2022, @03:44PM
Let's see, we have some big problems in the world:
1. Global Warming
2. Russian invasion of Ukraine
3. Human greed, anti-intellectualism, and downright stupidity
4. Nuclear weapons.
5. Poor health especially in the US in which one is price gouged for health care and exposed to chemicals we know are toxic
And these guys profess worry about a couple of social media platforms? Well, these are the same bozos who roll with insincere worries about gay sex, abortion, and all the rest of the social conservative agenda in which everything is somehow connected to sex.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 17 2022, @10:29PM