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from the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it dept.
Mac Bowley at the Raspberry Pi blog asks about ending hardware upgrades for the sake of upgrades as well as ending planned obsolescence. The softwre for the Raspberry Pi, he notes, still runs on the first models even if the newer models are faster. In fact the old models are still being produced and bought. Fully exploiting the natural life spans of hardware would have a lot of advantages, not the least of which would be reduction of the enviornmental impact.
Some components of your phone cannot be created without rare chemical elements, such as europium and dysprosium. (In fact, there are 83 stable non-radioactive elements in the periodic table, and 70 of them are used in some capacity in your phone.) Upgrade culture means there is high demand for these materials, and deposits are becoming more and more depleted. If you're hoping there are renewable alternatives, you'll be disappointed: a study by researchers working at Yale University found that there are currently no alternative materials that are as effective.
Then there's the issue of how the materials are mined. The market trading these materials is highly competitive, and more often than not manufacturers buy from the companies offer the lowest prices. To maintain their profit margin, these companies have to extract as much material as possible as cheaply as they can. As you can imagine, this leads to mining practices that are less than ethical or environmentally friendly. As many of the mines are located in distant areas of developing countries, these problems may feel remote to you, but they affect a lot of people and are a direct result of the market we are creating by upgrading our devices every two years.
Many of us agree that we need to do what we can to counteract climate change, and that, to achieve anything meaningful, we have to start looking at the way we live our lives. This includes questioning how we use technology. It will be through discussion and opinion gathering that we can start to make more informed decisions — as individuals and as a society.
Previously:
Apple, Samsung Fined for Crippling Devices With Software Updates
Planned Obsolescence Takes a Step Forward (2014)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:53AM (6 children)
Upgrade culture was going to be upgraded, but it was replaced by throwaway consumerism culture.
(Score: 2) by Booga1 on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:15AM (4 children)
Indeed. Most stuff is more expensive to repair now than replace, if it can be repaired at all. Everything gets tossed, recycled if you're lucky.
If you find yourself buying the latest model $thingy every refresh cycle, you're probably either buying the wrong thing or being sucked in to some upgrade scheme pushed by the manufacturer/seller.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by stormwyrm on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:42AM (3 children)
Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Booga1 on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:05AM
Funny you mention the per app battery usage not being visible on Android. That's been available on mine for ages, but I found this article that might explain it for some people: https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/get-oreos-battery-menu-back-android-pie-0183346/ [gadgethacks.com]
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:36PM (1 child)
I still have my 6P with depleted battery - does everything work with lineage OS?
(Score: 4, Informative) by stormwyrm on Sunday February 09 2020, @06:13PM
Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:14PM
Funny quip, but... I'm building a "state of the art" mini GPU driven neural net trainer. I'm building it inside an existing 32GB RAM 1TB SSD i7 desktop machine, a Dell we bought "off the rack" 5 years ago. $350 (price dropped to $299 last week) for the GPU card, $110 for an upgraded power supply, $20 for the "Dell adapter cable" to power the motherboard, a bunch of free to download software and I'm in business.
All through the 1990s, we replaced our desktops every 2 years because the old ones were intolerably slow and limited. The ones we replaced them with were still intolerably slow and limited, but at least they were twice as capable as the ones they were replacing, at a 25% price drop from the previous generation. Oh, and any piece of "state of the art" software back then would have run at least $500 on top of the hardware cost.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:25AM (6 children)
My oldest piece of electronic hardware is a digital multimeter (for measuring voltage, current, etc. in circuits) that's about 27 years old. Readings still seem accurate and nothing has failed.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:43AM (2 children)
Mine is an AM/FM receiver and associated FM-multiplex adapter from the late 1950's. The combo works great, and it's been in steady service since it was bought new by my father. About 60 years or so of solid, dependable performance. Not one single problem other than replacing the dial lamps every few years. Not even a tube replacement!
In the meantime, my Marantz 2325 receiver from the 1970's... yeah, died a couple years ago. After having all kinds of problems with noisy controls for many years. Pretty much the same story for others of similar vintage, too. My 1980's Marantz tuner/preamp/amp combo... all dead now.
They literally don't make 'em like they used to.
--
I dream of a world where chickens can cross the
road without having their motives questioned.
(Score: 2) by srobert on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:55AM (1 child)
My wife and I got a large screen smart TV 2 years ago. It is sitting on top of my old TV, which had finally quit working at that time. It was an RCA 25 inch diagonal CRT that I bought in 1986. Watched it for 31 years. My wife developed some strange superstition about it, so we can't throw it away. I can't help but think of that Jeff Foxworthy bit, "If your TV that works, sits on top of your TV that doesn't work ..."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:54PM
Unless the electron gun died (single bright point that doesn't move) it may only need some caps, or in the worst case a replacement flyback transformer.
Personally I've been keeping any equipment I still can alive, even if it's for infrequent use just because it keeps the analog hole open. All this DRM bullshit is going to see us enslaved if we aren't careful, and the only way to do that is the ensure we still have the technology to fall back on when it all gets turned to/legislated into shit.
Also it's just cool being able to say you still have vintage gear in working order :)
(Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:16AM
Mine is a ferroresonant power conditioner that's probably around 50 years old, those things are pretty much indestructible.
Come to think of it I couldn't get rid of it if I wanted to, no idea how I'd shift it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:17PM (1 child)
My step-father worked for the phone company. They "upgraded" their multimeters about 25 years ago, I got one of the cast-offs of the previous generation. The leads are in kind of rough shape - could be replaced they're just insulated wires with pointy test probes on the ends, but... at ~50 years old it's still just as functional as when it was in daily use. I'm curious what they used for a battery to drive the ohm meter, 'cause it's still working too and I've never serviced it.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by deimtee on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:35PM
If it's that old it is very probably a mercury battery. They have a very stable voltage (1.35V) and a shelf-life of decades.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:31AM (9 children)
Apple is a huge villain in this regard. They abandon hardware that works perfectly well (proven repeatedly by "hacks" that successfully apply OS upgrades to older machines.)
For instance, my 12/24 core, 64-bit, 64 GB, 2.93 GHz, four 1 TB SSD, six-monitor Mac Pro... yep, they won't upgrade the OS past its current level, which is 10.12.6. Apple's up to 10.15 now.
This also screws application developers: as soon as they start depending on new features in a newer version of the OS, their available market shrinks.
My machine is 10 years old, runs like a champ, and does everything I need; it just isn't as fast as some more recent machines of comparable configuration. It's still quite fast, though.
Whatever impulse I might have had to buy a new, high-end Mac Pro could not survive the fact that they showed me that they won't support perfectly good existing hardware. Why should I spend all that money, again, just to have them drop support for it in eight years?
When this machine dies — well, if it dies — it's off to EBay to buy another one just like it. At a fraction of the cost of a new machine from Apple, not a penny of which will actually reach Apple.
That's what comes of screwing your customers, fellas.
In the meantime, my old laptop, which came with (then) brand-new Windows7 in 2009; yep, upgraded to Windows10 without a single problem; and all my Windows crap still works fine, too. As a direct consequence, I'm scouting for a brand new high-end desktop machine for Windows10. Because that lappy... not that quick, lol. Spoiled user over here, performance-wise. By that old Mac Pro, in fact.
--
Wow. Apparently it's "rude" to ask the parents
of a kid on a leash if it was a rescue.
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:37AM (1 child)
Can't you use some of the same hacks that people use for installing on non Apple hardware?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @06:42PM
I was able to get a dell laptop with an Intel i5 processor to run OSX 10.10 a few years ago
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @06:13AM
Put it down to "feature" bloat accumulated with each OS upgrade.
A friend gifted me with a perfectly good, fully functional 2009 iMac a couple of years back. Apple maxes out OS X support on it to 10.11, IIRC. For performance reasons I wouldn't be thrilled to use that as my primary desktop, but funnily enough, if I put 10.6.8 on, performance is fantastic; the machine is highly responsive and everything is snappy. Unfortunately, you can't get current releases of contemporary software that will run on OS X 10.6 and today's bloated macOS won't even install on it, so a perfectly good computer is relegated to being a doorstop.
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Sunday February 09 2020, @10:15AM (3 children)
Don't forget the disturbing trend to solder RAM, Battery, and hard drives to the mother board. This viral idea has spread to the Windows computers as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:30AM
It stops people from expecting to be able to upgrade. Your computer came with 4 or 8GB of RAM. Be thankful.
It's prevalent in laptops. People have stopped expecting a progression of improvement.
Can anyway really tell from the model numbers which CPU or video card is better?
Do they care?
Haven't we reached the point where hardware upgrades, even for gamers, is largely irrelevant?
I still think Windows machines should be 16GB RAM minimum, 32 standard.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday February 09 2020, @01:06PM (1 child)
They didn't come up with that tho. They used to solder all sorts of IC:s directly to the motherboards even back in the day. So as a home-tinkerer that was among the first thing you did when you fixed something or exchanged something -- putting chips in sockets.
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Sunday February 09 2020, @02:41PM
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:20PM
Worse than abandon, they intentionally degrade its functionality through "security upgrades." They destroyed the iPad One about 3 years after launch with that BS, and they continue to do it to multiple product lines (and are presently being sued for same) today.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:01PM
I agree with your point. However, in the smart phone world Apple is actually better to consumers than the other major players. Apple tends to support products for 4-5 years. Microsoft abandoned all of its mobile operating systems and supporting each version well before it reached four years of age. Android flagships like the Google Pixel devices and Samsung Galaxy S-somethings might get 3 years of support, but everything else gets 2 - or less. My wife, kids, siblings, and parents all have Android phones. The oldest phone still in active use in the family is the lone iPhone, a 6S.
That's not to say I like Apple. I hate them. I'm just saying there are no heroes among the major tech players. I'm hoping the PinePhone or something becomes a viable product.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:59AM (1 child)
Upgrade and the shit that used to work fine stops working.
Fuck upgrade.
(Score: -1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:40AM
Stop installing updates. Get hacked.
ShitstainNews getting hacked would be an improvement.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:06AM (11 children)
Smartphone market set for 'biggest ever decline' [techradar.com]
That said, the smartphone is a device that is carried around by people all day long and often put through the wringer by being dropped, smashed, rained on, etc. It's not a tragedy if you have to replace it.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:38AM (2 children)
Well hey, you know what you could do. Stop dropping your phone. Have you tried stop dropping your phone? You know, it doesn't get drop damage if you just Stop. Dropping. Your. Phone.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday February 09 2020, @06:40AM (1 child)
A smartphone you carry around is going to suffer more wear and tear than a desktop computer. Doesn't matter if you are more careful than the average person.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:32AM
Especially after washing it with the dishes.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @10:21AM (2 children)
Well, actually, that IS what she's saying. If you don't find her generalizations useful, go read up on Coltan mining for yourself. Wikipedia literally has two on topic results: one is /Coltan, one is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan_mining_and_ethics [wikipedia.org]
Can you guess why ethics is coming up in the context of mining?
Is your guess "the exploitation of African children"?
Good guess! You might enjoy that read. Your CPU ain't gettin' made without the stuff, nor your eminently smashable phone. And Coltan is only one required mineral.
Another AC told you to not drop it; I'd actually suggest drop- and water-proofing it, as many a case made of much simpler and cheaper and less ethically challenging materials purports to do.
(Score: 2) by sgleysti on Sunday February 09 2020, @02:48PM
I had an application at work where Tantalum capacitors would have been a good fit, but company policy precluded me from using them since Tantalum is a conflict mineral. I was actually happy about that.
I wonder if at least desktop computers could be made with perhaps less performance or at higher cost without using some or all of these materials. Alternatively, they could be mined from less viable mineral deposits at a higher refining cost...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 09 2020, @10:52PM
Beats starving them. Everyone forgets their country went through the sweat shop phase too.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:24PM (2 children)
Once "smartphones" finally evolved into Phablets, there really wasn't much other useful tech to cram into them.
My first "feature phone" was from 2006, I think I carried it until 2011 when the battery died and cost more than half of a new phablety phone to replace. Since then, I've only "upgraded" when I break the screens, which seems to run around 3 year intervals.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Sunday February 09 2020, @06:12PM (1 child)
While the first switch of my (back then, very dumb) mobile phone was after only about two years, that one was I was switching countries, the phone was network-locked, and unlocking it for the new network (even though it was T-Mobile in both countries!) would have cost me a multiple of buying a new phone. But then, the next phone I had for more than decade, and would have kept it even longer if I had not lost it on an international flight. After that I bought a feature phone, and that one is what I still use to this day.
Well, as the development goes, I guess at some time I won't be able to go without smartphone (just as not having a credit card was at some point no longer really an option). But still, my feature phone is already older than most smartphones.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday February 09 2020, @10:19PM
We avoided cell phones altogether until about 1999, I think... what pushed us over the edge was driving less than reliable cars across the everglades on a regular basis - the phone seemed like a good insurance policy. I've never had a car strand me in the middle of nowhere, but I did have one come close one evening at sunset in the middle of the glades, back when 27 was 2 lanes and a ditch - fuel pump cut out, then... 20 minutes later it started working again (bad ground wire, but I didn't know that at the time...)
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:46PM (1 child)
'is it a bad idea to make durable tools that hurt profits? Sometimes, say a few remaining exiled lunatics!'
"consumers are still happy even after a typical 24-month minimum term contract has ended." whoa dude, did you say 'happy?' lol boy did this word get a downgrade recently...
Reformulated with correct english: Humans are satisfied by this product even after short term plutacratic goals are met, and we are addressing this like a disease.
Brainwashing and acceptance of it is on full display here, the language tells you exactly where you stand.
Nowhere. Also nowhere does it mention that people are getting distrustful of these devices as they should, and culture is getting ruined by people walking around with people who think talking on the phone looks as cool as in the original commercian in 2008. They thinks that makes them 'connected,' probably more real and modern too. lol. smh.
Or maybe, people are just getting the memes and putting 2+2 together, getting smart:
https://archive.is/xXs6r [archive.is]
https://archive.ph/SKqzw [archive.ph]
https://archive.is/YkJr8 [archive.is]
And of course, obviously, you can't just dump all of this in the ocean, and the people with all of the money and power deserve 90% of the liability, which they dodge 99% of the time with articles just like OPs.
thesesystemsarefailing.net
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:48PM
Bingo.
Even "upgrade culture" is a euphemism; what they mean is "disposable culture." And an economy based on feverish production and waste will treat its humans the same as its products...because, after all, if we are only meant to consume, if we can't consume due to poverty for example, *we* are obviously obsolete and broken and deserve to be disposed of. None of them will say that outright, but it's a hidden assumption, if not a hidden axiom, of the system as it stands.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:34AM
Make it easier for Russians to hack SoylentNews.
ShitstainNews getting hacked would only be an improvement.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:42AM (1 child)
Update! Update! ShitstainNews is total shit!
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:34AM
go build your own then
then build up a community
then fend off the trolls you attract
good luck
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday February 09 2020, @07:53AM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @09:34AM
i still think "global wealth" is a ledger of the total destruction of the planet.
the more you destroy the more wealth is generated.
thus once-thru is the most profitable and recycling hinders generation of more new "wealth" or the
increament of the number representing destruction ...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @09:45AM (10 children)
The computers that are being bought in large numbers nowadays aren't significantly more powerful or better than computers from 5 years or even 10 years ago except for storage - flash memory and throughput improvements continue to be huge, but they're way cheaper and more power efficient. Most people don't need that much. Phones with two-digit GB RAM are ridiculous. Browsers don't need that much yet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:39AM (5 children)
You can never have too much.
On a given day my Chrome is taking 2GB+ and PowerShell is taking 2GB+ the OS likes to take at least 1GB etc etc and that's the start of the day.
We have servers with 32GB that constantly take 80% at normal usage.
The more RAM the better.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:47AM
get a life
(Score: 2) by EvilSS on Sunday February 09 2020, @02:47PM (3 children)
eh, my current PC has 128GB. I feel like that, along with the 18 core/36 thread CPU, will last me quite a while. Even running a full virtual lab environment in the background I have yet to come close to hitting 80% RAM utilization.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @06:49PM (2 children)
My current PC has a P4 3.4Ghz single core CPU with speedstep of 3.4 down to 2.4 and 4GB
of RAM. I run a 32 bit Void linux custom install in live mode of a USB key.
It all works fine for me. About the limit is 480P video from youtube - but for me that is fine.
Can even run Xilinx Vivado for small designs (although the Vivado gui is really bloated)
(Score: 2) by Chocolate on Monday February 10 2020, @08:34AM (1 child)
.... Why?
Bit-choco-coin anyone?
(Score: 2) by epitaxial on Monday February 10 2020, @04:33PM
To prove a point I guess.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday February 09 2020, @01:44PM (2 children)
Tell that to the Tengu [soylentnews.org]. Firefox gotta have that 32 GB.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Sunday February 09 2020, @05:10PM (1 child)
You know what Tengus and Pinochio have in common?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:00PM
They're great in the bedroom.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:16PM
Only if you don't watch local video on your phone.
Yeah, streaming.... but some of us believe in owning so that the file is forever ours even when we can't afford streaming subscriptions anymore...
But the ever increasing march in display resolution requires greater quantities of memory to store local files if you're into that. My current video collection (in 1080p / DVD quality) takes 828 GB, and my music collection is somewhere around 18 GB. Don't want to think about what that would be in 4K and FLAC. Me, I'd love to be able to store all that on my phone (and if I could treat it as a share to stream to somewhere else, even better).
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:37AM (1 child)
Send old broken down equipment to third world countries for people in backwards villages to extract by hand so they can sell the valuable parts back to us.
Recycling!!!!!
Win-Win!!!!!!
(Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Sunday February 09 2020, @02:14PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 09 2020, @03:11PM (4 children)
Capitialism absolutely depends on making continually increasing sales of {whatever}. No sales, no company. More properly it is no sales, no shareholder growth, no company. Which is why companies are desperate to continue showing increased returns over prior {month, quarter, year}, every {month, quarter, year}.
One can build a product at a higher, yet reasonable, price where the MTBF is significantly enhanced but this is simply too long a period to sustain corporate growth. That MTBF rate must shrink to prop up the growth curve. The required rate of change is a higher order function (i.e. the stuff of forty years ago could last for thirty years, but the stuff of thirty years ago can only last for twenty, and the stuff of ten years ago only five, etc. until and unless a game changing concept comes that forces change through a genuine innovation or there is a natural consumable element which requires frequent enough replenishment like toner).
There isn't enough simple growth in population or natural need to continue the required rates of changes anymore. Which is why a collapse will occur and now it will occur sooner rather than later.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 09 2020, @04:50PM
Modded up because more people need to see this. I am a liberal rather than a communist--that is, I believe sustainable capitalism is possible if people get real about growth limits--but you've hit the nail on the head.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Sunday February 09 2020, @08:22PM
Earlier today I discovered that our Wii U's directional controls had stopped working (for up and down), after our resident toddler had been caught sucking on the analog stick. I dug out my triwing screwdriver, opened 'er up, cleaned up the soggy (shorted) potentiometer, and it's as good as new.
As I reassembled the control pad, I said to my wife "I despair that there are people who just throw things like this away, rather than try to fix them..."
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday February 09 2020, @11:37PM (1 child)
This is exactly where capitalism has become broken and must be fixed. It's no longer focused on selling a product to satisfy customers and make a reasonable profit. It is now all about manipulation of numbers so the stock price can be driven up by any means necessary. Buying stock at one time generally meant investing in a company in order that they had capital to use for research and infrastructure. Ideally, the company would profit over the long term and dividends would be paid. Perhaps we need to force a slow down in stock sales, if one buys stock maybe they should be required to hold it for certain periods of time (months? years?) before they can resell it. That would eliminate the computer trading of shares back and forth to boost activity (thus enticing the less wary to invest). How many companies out there are actually worth the stock prices they command?
(Score: 2) by Booga1 on Monday February 10 2020, @01:51AM
From what I understand, high frequency trading has been under fractions of a second for transaction times for a while now. They measure improvements in shaving off milliseconds on their trades.
All you'd need to do is put a tax on all stocks held less than a day or require stocks to be held for at least one minute and you'd make a huge dent in that whole scheme.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 10 2020, @03:11AM
by typing:
sudo update soylent-news
sudo upgrade solent-news
Thank you internet.
Mr. Horizon