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posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:54AM   Printer-friendly
from the lock-em-down dept.

Politicians won't admit it yet, but it's time to prepare—physically and psychologically—for a sudden stop to all life outside your home.

[...] Whether you are reading this in your living room in Vancouver, office in London, or on a subway in New York City, you need to think hard, and fast, about two crucial questions: Where, and with whom, do you want to spend the next six to 12 weeks of your life, hunkered down for the epidemic duration? And what can you do to make that place as safe as possible for yourself and those around you?

Your time to answer those questions is very short—a few days, at most. Airports will close, trains will shut down, gasoline supplies may dwindle, and roadblocks may be set up. Nations are closing their borders, and as the numbers of sick rise, towns, suburbs, even entire counties will try to shut the virus out by blocking travel. Wherever you decide to settle down this week is likely to be the place in which you will be stuck for the duration of your epidemic.

To appreciate what lies ahead for the United States, Canada, Mexico, and the United Kingdom, pay heed to Italy, France, and Germany. The United States, for example, is currently tracking exactly where Italy was about 10 days ago. France and Germany, which track two to five days ahead of the United States, are now revving up measures akin to those taken by Italy, including lockdowns on movement and social activity. In a matter of days, the United States will follow suit.

[...] Once tough location decisions have been made, the household must be readied for a long siege. While panic-buying has led to stockpiles of toilet paper and hand sanitizer, getting through eight months of confinement with others will require a great deal more, both physically and psychologically. This is especially true for households that span generations.

Long-term confinement that includes children undergoing remote schooling and adults trying to work requires designated spaces for each individual, a powerful Internet signal and Wi-Fi router, and a great deal of shared patience. Everybody in the household must understand how the coronavirus is spread, and what steps each should follow to eliminate their personal risk of passing infection to others in the home.

The virus is transmitted by droplets and fomites[*]—it isn't like measles, capable of drifting about in the air for hours. It dehydrates quickly if not inside water, mucus, or fomite droplets. The size of the droplets may be far below what the human eye can see, but they are gravity-sensitive, and will fall from an individual's mouth down, eventually, to the nearest lower surface—table, desk, floor. You do not need to clean upward.

However, a newly published study, backed by the National Institutes of Health, found that the virus survives in "aerosols for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel." This means an uncleaned surface can pose a risk to members of the household for a very long time—a doorknob, tabletop, kitchen counter or stainless steel utensil.

[*] Wikipedia entry on fomites:

any inanimate object that, when contaminated with or exposed to infectious agents (such as pathogenic bacteria, viruses or fungi), can transfer disease to a new host.

[...] In addition to objects in hospital settings, other common fomites for humans are cups, spoons, pencils, bath faucet handles, toilet flush levers, door knobs, light switches, handrails, elevator buttons, television remote controls, pens, touch screens, common-use phones, keyboards, and computer mice, coffeepot handles, countertops, and any other items that may be frequently touched by different people and infrequently cleaned.

Researchers have discovered that smooth (non-porous) surfaces like door knobs transmit bacteria and viruses better than porous materials like paper money because porous, especially fibrous, materials absorb and trap the contagion, making it harder to contract through simple touch. Nonetheless, fomites may include soiled clothes, towels, linens, handkerchiefs, and surgical dressings


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  • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @05:44AM (55 children)

    by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @05:44AM (#974798)

    Joking aside, everyone getting the insidious virus might be the only way to end the madness. I understand they need to "flatten the curve" to minimize healthcare overload...

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:13AM (53 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:13AM (#974805) Journal

    Joking aside, everyone getting the insidious virus might be the only way to end the madness.

    With the note that any drug found as efficient in lowering the morbidity of covid19 will transform this from a pandemic into "meh, a seasonal flu, here have this aspirin-like tablet".

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:31AM (52 children)

      by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:31AM (#974815)

      Yeah, I mostly agree, and people are saying that hydroxychloroquine (quinine derivative) and maybe with azithromycin (antibiotic) might be helping.

      However, we don't know the long-term effects yet. Some reports (here on SN) talked about neurological damage.

      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:40AM (13 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:40AM (#974821) Journal
        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:39AM (12 children)

          by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:39AM (#974832)

          Awesome article, thanks!

          • (Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:59AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:59AM (#974840) Journal

            Long way until there, so let's temper your enthusiasm Spanish nursing homes abandoned, residents found dead in beds as coronavirus worsens [abc.net.au]

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Tuesday March 24 2020, @08:06AM (10 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @08:06AM (#974844) Journal

            And, after damping your enthusiasm (I hope) with my prev comment, Covid19 may have peaked in Italy [worldometers.info]. But it's a bit too early to tell.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
            • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @03:14PM (1 child)

              by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @03:14PM (#975014)

              Damp my enthusiasm? I don't get it. How do you interpret "my enthusiasm", and why do you care?

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 24 2020, @03:27PM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @03:27PM (#975022) Journal

                How do you interpret "my enthusiasm", ...

                Well, I might have misinterpreted your "Awesome article, thanks!".

                and why do you care?

                A quote from a context** which may be quite fitting in the next months: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" (grin)

                ---

                ** if in a real need of a memory refresh, ask for a linky

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:31PM (1 child)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:31PM (#975075)

              This is what we really need: solid evidence of peak behavior.

              I'm not saying there isn't a problem - New York City has 12,000+ confirmed cases - but what hasn't been well characterized is: how many of those confirmed cases actually require advanced medical care, what percentage can just stay home and ride it out? With those 12,000 confirmed cases, how many untested cases are out there in the population? There are projections and models, but they are based on such sketchy data, small sample sizes with poor controls for variation that the results are basically whatever the statisticians want them to be.

              Once Wuhan, Italy, and a few other places have clearly passed peak, then we can start to reign in the true needs for isolation/quarantine. Being "on the safe side" is pretty clearly a good idea at the moment, but projecting that we're going to need to stay maximally isolated for 8+ months is needless, even damaging, hype and fear mongering.

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:02PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:02PM (#975125)

                New York City has 12,000+ confirmed cases - but what hasn't been well characterized is: how many of those confirmed cases actually require advanced medical care, what percentage can just stay home and ride it out?

                I guess that fully depends on who got tested. If random people got tested, it may pass in most positives even without major symptoms. If, as testing is supposed to be of limited availability, there is selection bias with only people so sick, that they are accepting of being put into forced quarantine, going and able to get it. My guess is that about 3% of positive cases there may lead to life threatening complications. The usual: high probability for elderly and weakened, low but non-zero for the healthy.

            • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Tuesday March 24 2020, @11:50PM

              by Sulla (5173) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @11:50PM (#975257) Journal

              I'm glad the 23rd was down again. There there have been false peaks before but it looks like this one is holding.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
            • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:14AM (4 children)

              by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:14AM (#975309) Homepage

              Or maybe they've just stopped testing... that's the most likely reason China is now reporting "no new cases".

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:25AM (1 child)

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:25AM (#975315) Journal

                Or maybe everybody is dead ... and there's nobody left to report anymore.

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
              • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:12AM (1 child)

                by legont (4179) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:12AM (#975329)

                China opened Wuhan today. No more quarantine for most.

                --
                "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
                • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:35AM

                  by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:35AM (#975336) Homepage

                  Well, it'll be interesting to see where that goes...

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by rleigh on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:46AM (20 children)

        by rleigh (4887) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:46AM (#974822) Homepage

        hydroxychloroquine is a poison used as fish tank cleaner. I just read a story about people who died after taking it. It's lethal.

        choroquine phosphate is the drug used for anti-malarial medication. It's this which has the potential to be useful for helping with coronavirus. It's a completely separate compound.

        I am replying in case anyone reads your post and acts upon it. It's irresponsible and dangerous to publish incorrect advice which could result in fatalities. Anyone who is thinking of getting some chloroquine should carefully read about what it is, and consult a pharmacist. Don't take random poisons and hope for the best.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:49AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:49AM (#974826)

          Don't take random poisons and hope for the best.

          Well, true, yet you may still take random poisons as long as you settle for hoping just for better. (large grin)

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:36AM

          by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:36AM (#974831)

          I appreciate your caution, but I did not make it up, nor incorrectly copy-paste it from all over the news articles. Perhaps you're confused?

          https://www.drugs.com/hydroxychloroquine.html [drugs.com]

          https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hydroxychloroquine [duckduckgo.com]

          https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hydroxychloroquine+covid-19 [duckduckgo.com]

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Tuesday March 24 2020, @09:57AM (2 children)

          by Magic Oddball (3847) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @09:57AM (#974872) Journal

          It's also the primary treatment for systemic lupus erythematosus; my mother was on it from 1996 through last November, when consistent negative ANA results and her age finally led doctors to decide she's in remission or cured or whatever. That said, while she suffered no ill effects, I definitely wouldn't recommend that anybody take it unless it's under a doctor's orders.

          • (Score: 5, Interesting) by driverless on Tuesday March 24 2020, @10:40AM (1 child)

            by driverless (4770) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @10:40AM (#974886)

            It's been banned in many malaria countries in Africa because it's too dangerous to take unless you're under close medical supervision. Expect to see more deaths in the near future arising from the chief twitter recommending it repeatedly.

            I'll leave it to the peanut gallery to discuss whether Trump supporters poisoning themselves via Trump's miracle cure is poetic justice or not.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:19PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:19PM (#975062)

              > I'll leave it to the peanut gallery to discuss whether Trump supporters poisoning themselves via Trump's miracle cure is poetic justice or not.

              Hey thanks! I think they should be given the choice of hydroquinine (or whatever fish tank cleaner ends up with Trump branding) or a vaccine.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by EvilSS on Tuesday March 24 2020, @01:29PM (5 children)

          by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @01:29PM (#974952)

          hydroxychloroquine is a poison used as fish tank cleaner.

          No Chloroquine Phosphate is a drug that was used to prevent and treat malaria and is a currently used to treat fish for certain parasitic infections. Hydroxychloroquine is a drug used to treat people for malaria and some autoimmune diseases today due to it being less toxic than chloroquine phosphate. Neither is used to clean fishtanks.

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by RS3 on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:39PM (1 child)

            by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:39PM (#975084)

            Thank you, but caution: I got modded "troll" for trying to give out that information.

            I guess it's because of something Trump said / tweeted. I don't read Trump, and I had no idea it was being attributed to Trump. And frankly I really don't care. Trump has nothing to do with it. I read medical news and information.

            But do a quick search on Chloroquine Phosphate and you'll find that is also used medicinally.

            This is not to you EvilSS, but anyone:

            Many many medications are poisonous. Chemotherapy is some of the most known to be poison. The hope is that the chemo is more poisonous to the cancer than it is to the rest of the person.

            Does every post on SN (or wherever) have to have 100 disqualifiers? Like: don't do this on your own? Isn't it common knowledge that you only take medications when prescribed and monitored by a doctor? Again, does that have to be spelled out in every post about medications?

            • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Sulla on Wednesday March 25 2020, @12:30AM

              by Sulla (5173) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 25 2020, @12:30AM (#975266) Journal

              Not sure about where you live, but in Oregon hydroxychloroquine is by prescription. The pharmacy that my wife works at and one of my best friends is a pharmacist at has had several prescriptions come through for hydroxychloroquine and z-pack for treatment of the virus.

              Side effects
              https://www.drugs.com/sfx/hydroxychloroquine-side-effects.html [drugs.com]

              Alternatively if you are in the states you could drink eight liters of tonic water day to get the same medicinal effects from hydroxychloroquine. Would probably need to work out a lot to burn off those calories. Outside of where the FDA makes your drinks weak, you can probably get a stronger tonic water. Mix with gin for most preferred results.

              My pharmacist friend said his primary concern with the drug is irregular heartbeats and blood pressure. The good news is that he said that overall its very well tolerated and the side effects are reversible with discontinuing of the drug. If you get the virus and you are in a risk group for serious complications it might be worth talking to your doctor about the possible trials out there. Unfortunately for diabetics hydroxychloroquine is not going to be the solution as it can cause problems for diabetics. There is also Remdesivir that you might be able to get in the trial for, but I don't know about the side effects there. You could also do nothing. 20% chance of needing hospital care and oxygen, then possibly needing a ventilator.

              --
              Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:17AM (2 children)

            by legont (4179) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:17AM (#975331)

            It is also used to treat arthritis, so many old people are used to it.

            It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine [wikipedia.org]

            --
            "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
            • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:44PM (1 child)

              by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:44PM (#975494)
              RA is an autoimmune disease. https://www.medicinenet.com/rheumatoid_arthritis/article.htm [medicinenet.com]
              • (Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday March 25 2020, @05:01PM

                by legont (4179) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @05:01PM (#975535)

                Some says that the reason coronavirus is so deadly is immune system overreaction once it gets below vocal box. It does make the drug controversial as one probably wants good immune system until the last stage.

                --
                "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by aixylinux on Tuesday March 24 2020, @03:55PM (1 child)

          by aixylinux (7294) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @03:55PM (#975039)

          The difference between medicine and poison is the dosage. I take warfarin (a rat poison) daily for AFIB.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:21PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:21PM (#975064)

            I take alcohol (a hand sanitizer) to deal with... my issues.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Hartree on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:18PM (2 children)

          by Hartree (195) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:18PM (#975060)

          Hydroxychloroquine is used as it has LESS negative effects that chloroquine.

          Either has to be monitored closely when used. It's still a work in progress if either is more beneficial than harmful. There is a French study that looks quite promising.

          My concern is that your alarmist tone would lead to someone resisting it if a qualified physician prescribed it to them. Long before Trump said anything (weeks) there had been a lot of interest in the medical science community that it might be helpful and it was being actively tested in several countries. Just as Trump's blathering does not mean it works, equally, it has no bearing on if it does work.

          Anyone taking it on their own after getting a supply of it is probably a fool and at risk. Medicines often have side effects and only someone with the training and experience like a physician can evaluate those risks and make a good decision. So, if your doctor prescribes it for you, take it.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 26 2020, @03:50AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 26 2020, @03:50AM (#975716)

            There is a French study that looks quite promising.

            If by study, you mean this one [mediterranee-infection.com], I would not call it "quite promising". It's full of methodological errors [sciencebasedmedicine.org] and likely would never pass peer review in ordinary times. They basically dropped all the patients who got sicker while undergoing the treatment, making their conclusions highly suspect. A closer look at their data shows that PCR was not done [twitter.com] for most of their controls to assess what their viral load really was. If it were my life on the line I'd not be waiting in line to try it unless I had no other options. Likely the only reason why this garbage is being as widely considered at all is because President Trump tweeted about it being a "game changer".

            • (Score: 2) by Hartree on Thursday March 26 2020, @08:18PM

              by Hartree (195) on Thursday March 26 2020, @08:18PM (#976067)

              I'd briefly read the report on the 20th, pointed there by a post from Columbia University Virologist Vince Raccaniello. This was before Trump commented on it, and before the critiques (with quite valid points, I might add) were made by Drosten and others, and I hadn't read about them as yet.

              As I noted above, it's a work in progress at this time and anyone deciding to take it on their own would be foolish. It's being followed up by other studies that are better designed and when those are ready, we'll have a much better idea if this is useful or a mirage.

              I stand by my advice that if someone has a serious case of COVID-19 and their doctor feels it's worth trying that they go along with that.

              I think that we can agree that the best thing for now is the politicians to shut up about things they know little about and let the medical research community work through it. The Arizona case showed that pols saying uninformed things can have tragic consequences.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:33PM (2 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:33PM (#975079)

          Simple quinine is available (in low doses) in tonic water, my 72 year old mother has been bingeing on tonic water for a few days now.

          --
          John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
          • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday March 25 2020, @07:28AM (1 child)

            by Sulla (5173) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 25 2020, @07:28AM (#975361) Journal

            Depending on where you live the dosage is quite low. If you are drinking this swill the FDA allows companies in the US to call tonic water you need seven or eight liters a day to get a dosage that would give any benefit.

            .... not that that is preventing me from drinking MEDICINAL Gin and Tonics all day erry day

            My understanding is that overseas you can get higher potency tonic.

            --
            Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 25 2020, @02:16PM

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @02:16PM (#975461)

              True and good strategy, my medicinal tonic of choice is the dark and stormy: rum in ginger beer - more effective than cough syrup at suppressing coughs, muscle relaxant, and general stress reducer - and the ginger beer increases bowel motility, if that's of any concern.

              --
              John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].
        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday March 24 2020, @08:45PM

          by sjames (2882) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @08:45PM (#975193) Journal

          Well, if you down a few bottles of tylenol at once, that will kill you as well. The dose is key.

          Chloroquine has been used safely for decades in a proper dose. It is a well understood generic drug. I'm guessing the people who died either got confused and took something else or they decided if dose X is good, 10X is better.

          I haven't seen any advice to score some grey market chloroquine on ebay and take it all at once.

          If I or someone I know should contract COVID-19, I will definitely discuss chloroquine with the doctor.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:50AM (12 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:50AM (#974836)

        and people Trump and this idiot Thiel influenced son-in-law are saying that hydroxychloroquine (quinine derivative) and maybe with azithromycin (antibiotic) might be helping./quote

        FTFY, and, anyone who gets medical advice from a functional illiterate like Trump deserves to die. In agony. From Quinine poisoning.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:59AM (11 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:59AM (#974839)

          Forgot to close my tags, again? Must be the virus! *cough, cough* That or the Hydroxlcloroquinine Acetate. I feel ill. Told you something was wrong with me! *hack, hack*. Tell Ayn Rand Paul I love him and forgive him.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:24PM (10 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:24PM (#975067)

            Rand Paul, a deficit hawk, was among eight Senate Republicans who voted against a House-passed bill last week that provided more than $100bn to boost testing for the coronavirus and guarantee paid sick leave for millions of workers.

            He also was the only Republican senator who opposed an earlier bill authorizing $8.3bn for initial response to the coronavirus.

            Senator Mitt Romney, of Utah, said he was praying for Paul and noted that Paul’s health is compromised. Paul, 57, broke several ribs in 2017 when a neighbor assaulted him over a long-standing landscaping dispute. Paul had surgery last year to remove part of a lung damaged by the assault.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:49PM (5 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @04:49PM (#975093) Journal

              who voted against a House-passed bill last week that provided more than $100bn to boost testing for the coronavirus and guarantee paid sick leave for millions of workers

              A lot of people seem to forget that there will be a future after COVID-19 and all that money spent now will have to be paid back in some way in the future. And where is that $100 billion really going? This wouldn't be the first time Congress didn't let a crisis go to waste.

              • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @05:56PM (4 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @05:56PM (#975122)

                How about they follow the money, find out where it it ends up, and then tax those profiteering bastards enough to get it all back.

                • (Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:33PM (2 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 24 2020, @06:33PM (#975133) Journal
                  I'm sure they'll get right on that.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 25 2020, @01:32AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 25 2020, @01:32AM (#975285)

                    So who is the money owed to? Nobody ever mentions that.
                    What actually happens if they simply say "all government debts over $1,000,000,000 are reduced to $10,000,000" ? Nobody is actually rendered destitute, they still have ten million dollars, but the government debt is reduced to ~1% of what it was.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 25 2020, @01:42AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 25 2020, @01:42AM (#975290)

                    If they are not going to bother doing that, why should I bother caring that they owe it?

                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @11:48PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @11:48PM (#975256)

                  Why not tax China, the source of this? If every country in the world applies a tariff to China for anything going in and out, they will pay for this and hopefully learn the next time this shit like this happens they are forthcoming and immediate about it.

                  What will likely happen instead is countries will print more money and do more sovereign loans. China will likely end up underwriting a lot of sovereign loans cause they're loaded and we all end up being indebted to them. Such a remarkable strategy.

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @11:06PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 24 2020, @11:06PM (#975243)

              Yeah, you might want to look at that bill a bit. Might start to wonder how making it mandatory to provide sick leave time for stalking victims will do to reduce the impact of a corona virus. All these bills are getting larded down with every idiotic agenda item these politicians can think of.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Reziac on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:20AM (2 children)

                by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @03:20AM (#975310) Homepage

                Basically the Dems tacked the whole Green New Deal onto the bill, in the obvious hope that a panic vote could get their entire agenda passed at once, and if not, then failing to pass it could be blamed on Trump.

                • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday March 25 2020, @07:35AM (1 child)

                  by Sulla (5173) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 25 2020, @07:35AM (#975363) Journal

                  Airplane emissions regulations
                  Fully funding Planned Parenthood
                  Extending citizenship to all DACA

                  What bothered me most about how the Democrats acted was not that they did this, but that they did this after the Senate Republicans passed the first bill that the Congress Dems sent over without holding it up over issues they felt it had. The first bill said that employers had to pay for sick leave (instead of the Feds like Trump wanted) yet didn't extend aid to those employers so that they could pay the employees (no cash on hand).

                  There are other ways to win against Trump than screwing the general population.

                  What the democrats should be focusing on, that Trump has already agreed to, but I don't trust the Senate Republicans to include
                  Forced equity stake and 20 year limits on stock buybacks for companies who paid CEO bonuses after the Bush/Obama bailouts
                  30% equity as a general rule for anyone taking bailouts and general limits on stock buybacks
                  Limits on CEO and Board pay for any company that takes a bailout

                  --
                  Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
                  • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:48PM

                    by Reziac (2489) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @04:48PM (#975529) Homepage

                    Yeah... another reason we need a law limiting all bills to ONE TOPIC.

                    Of course might be they included all their boilerplate GND horseshit for the express purpose of ensuring that the bill would not pass, so they could complain again how Trump isn't doing anything.

      • (Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:55PM (2 children)

        by sjames (2882) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @07:55PM (#975167) Journal

        Considering that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are already approved drugs, I don't see why they're not being tried more widely, especially in patients sick enough to need the hospital. The trial results I have seen suggest that they both shorten the course of the illness and reduce it's severity. That would do a lot to reduce mortality and free up more resources in the hospitals. In many countries including the U.S. doctors are free to prescribe approved drugs for off-label use.

        • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday March 25 2020, @07:47AM (1 child)

          by Sulla (5173) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 25 2020, @07:47AM (#975366) Journal

          I wont get Fauci's quote exactly from a few days ago, but the jist was that he has no reason to believe that there will be any difference in treating the coronavirus as opposed to malaria or arthritis when it comes to side effects, but at this point we still do not fully understand what the SARS-COV-2 is actually doing and there could be something different about this virus that does trigger a negative reaction. Hydrochloroquine can cause blood pressure issues, irregular heartbeats, etc. An unknown about the SARS-COV-2 is that we still don't have a good answer for the people who had sudden cardiac arrest due to this virus, there were a lot of videos showing this in China from the last few months and we have had a couple of examples from the US as well.

          --
          Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
          • (Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday March 25 2020, @08:48AM

            by sjames (2882) on Wednesday March 25 2020, @08:48AM (#975376) Journal

            It looks like the cardiovascular issues are with overdose or long term use (for RA). Also a problem if you have long QT syndrome. Otherwise a short course for COVID-19 or Malaria shouldn't be much problem.

      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday March 26 2020, @01:47AM

        by HiThere (866) on Thursday March 26 2020, @01:47AM (#975671) Journal

        That treatment is dangerous enough that you should be under a doctors monitoring while taking it. And the study that I saw said that half the (very small) sample dropped out either because of side effect or leaving for the ICU. So the success was measured on the residue that didn't develop a bad case....which is truly bad statically.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 24 2020, @01:47PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday March 24 2020, @01:47PM (#974956)

    99.9%+ penetration is the only possible final outcome, flattening the curve is all we should be shooting for. So many hidden agendas are cropping up now, people who have just been itching for a chaotic moment to make their push to change society, I think all of them are rooting for as much chaos as they can get.

    --
    John Galt is a selfish crybaby [huffpost.com].