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posted by Fnord666 on Monday July 13 2020, @11:53AM   Printer-friendly
from the First-to-Fall dept.

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/06/887540598/the-debate-over-the-word-irregardless-is-it-a-word

All right. Let's settle something here. The word irregardless - is it a word or is it not a word? Well, this is a debate that Merriam-Webster is now weighing in on in a tweet saying that it is, in fact, a word. And that has led to a whole lot of reaction online.

Merriam-Webster has confirmed that "irregardless" is a word in the dictionary, despite concerns from teachers that it is not.

So fellow Soylentils, irregardless of my opinion, what do your think?

See Also:
Is 'Irregardless' a Real Word?
Definition of irregardless


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1 (2)
  • (Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @12:59PM

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @12:59PM (#1020272) Journal

    The logically correct word should be "disirregardless" or "unirregradless" - use a triple negation to bring the intended meaning in sync with the word.

    (no, I'm not grinning)

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @01:03PM (10 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @01:03PM (#1020276)

    What does SCOTUS^W the OED say?

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @01:39PM (9 children)

      by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @01:39PM (#1020286)
      From the OED:

      Irregardless (informal)

      Irregardless means the same as regardless, but the negative prefix ir- merely duplicates the suffix -less, and is unnecessary. The word dates back to the 19th century, but is regarded as incorrect in standard English.

      Origin: Mid 19th century: probably a blend of irrespective and regardless.

      • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday July 13 2020, @01:54PM (7 children)

        by nitehawk214 (1304) on Monday July 13 2020, @01:54PM (#1020299)

        the negative prefix ir- merely duplicates the suffix -less

        So it just means regard?

        That doesn't seem right.

        --
        "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
        • (Score: 3, Funny) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @03:18PM (4 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @03:18PM (#1020356) Homepage
          That's because duplication is quite distinct from cancellation, you silly silly person.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:23PM (3 children)

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:23PM (#1020362) Journal

            Cancel and Counsel might be interchangeable.

            Some people would say not so. They would insist there is difference between Marriage Counselor and Marriage Canceller.

            --
            When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
            • (Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @04:08PM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @04:08PM (#1020412) Journal

              Thanks god there's no marriage chancellor, otherwise some Americans would spell it "chanceller" and use it to denote "someone who takes a chance in marriage" (grin)

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @09:18PM (1 child)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @09:18PM (#1020703) Homepage
              The schwa is a beautiful vowel. Here's an old usenet sig I used to use:

              FatPhil's Simplified _________
              Pronunciation Guide \__\__|__|
              Part 1 - Vowels \__\@|__|
                                                                  \______|

              But yes, you need to make sure that your marriage ends up with eternal bliss, not an eternal blister.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @09:19PM

                by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @09:19PM (#1020704) Homepage
                FUX!

                FatPhil's Simplified    _________
                Pronunciation Guide     \__\__|__|
                Part 1 - Vowels          \__\@|__|
                                          \______|
                --
                Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 3, Touché) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @03:35PM

          by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:35PM (#1020381)
          I, literally, just gave you the definition. So no, it does not mean regard.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:13AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:13AM (#1020890)

          It would, but that's not how it's used. There are words where there are repetitive uses of negatives embedded in them, antidisestablishmentarianism is a good example.

          Ultimately, how words are used is what they mean. There are countless cases of pajoration and amelioration that have gone on, in addition to slides in the meaning of words. Ultimately, it's a majority rules type of a deal where if there's a critical mass of people using and understanding a word in a certain way, that is it's meaning. That includes cases where it's really dumb.

      • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday July 13 2020, @05:31PM

        by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @05:31PM (#1020502) Homepage Journal

        It is a word.

        But

        It is a bad word.

        says the OED.

        -- hendrik

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Wootery on Monday July 13 2020, @01:44PM

    by Wootery (2341) on Monday July 13 2020, @01:44PM (#1020292)

    Kory Stamper has talked about this, she's pro-irregardless.

    See her short video (with transcription) [businessinsider.com] and this episode [poorstuart.com] of the Penn's Sunday School podcast, in which Stamper is a guest, where they discuss irregardless (skip to 8:45).

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @01:46PM (21 children)

    by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @01:46PM (#1020293)
    Is it a word? Well, can it be used in a sentence? Can the meaning be reasonably understood by a English speaker? If so, then yes, it's a word. It might not be considered a "proper" part of the English language, but that doesn't make it a non-word. Unlike some other languages, English doesn't have a formal body to officiate it, so make shit up long enough that people start to use it, and volia! it's part of the language. And ain't nuthin' be dun 'bout it, irregardless of all 'dem language snobs.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:09PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:09PM (#1020304)

      I believe british english is defined as the english spoken by the queen (or king).
      Obviously this is meaningless for the US, but it seems relevant.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by iWantToKeepAnon on Monday July 13 2020, @02:20PM (1 child)

      by iWantToKeepAnon (686) on Monday July 13 2020, @02:20PM (#1020313) Homepage Journal

      Sounds perfectly cromulent to me.

      --
      "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
      • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday July 13 2020, @09:37PM

        by MostCynical (2589) on Monday July 13 2020, @09:37PM (#1020725) Journal

        as long as you are gruntled.

        --
        "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
    • (Score: 2) by inertnet on Monday July 13 2020, @03:04PM (17 children)

      by inertnet (4071) on Monday July 13 2020, @03:04PM (#1020337) Journal

      Can the meaning be reasonably understood by a English speaker?

      I'm not sure. The prefix "ir" is a negation. A good example of this is 'regular' versus 'irregular'. So irregardless means the opposite of regardless to me, but I assume that most people will say that these words have the same meaning. I don't know the proper opposite of 'regardless', or if such a word even exists.

      • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @03:08PM (15 children)

        by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:08PM (#1020344)
        Are you honestly telling me before today you did not know "irregardless" is a informal synonym of "regardless"? If the answer is no, then my statement stands.
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @03:24PM (11 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:24PM (#1020364) Journal

          Are you honestly telling me before today you did not know "irregardless" is a informal synonym of "regardless"?

          Yes.
          Nobody except some USians use it.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (10 children)

            by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (#1020379)
            How would you know that if you never heard of the word before?
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @03:39PM (9 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:39PM (#1020388) Journal

              I can still RTFA and research around; is not a crime, is it?

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @03:48PM (7 children)

                by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:48PM (#1020399)
                Just seems odd you managed to come to a research and come to a solid conclusion about the usage patterns of a word you literally only found out existed in the past 4 hours. In other words: I feel like you are lying to me here.
                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @03:55PM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:55PM (#1020406) Journal

                  I feel like you are lying to me here.

                  You can feel what you want.

                  Here's one [soylentnews.org] - saying that's dialectal. By the number of outraged USians, I get that not all of them accept it.

                  Here's another [lascribe.net] - no, it's not an eggcorn, even if it should.

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                • (Score: 3, Informative) by deimtee on Monday July 13 2020, @04:36PM (5 children)

                  by deimtee (3272) on Monday July 13 2020, @04:36PM (#1020432) Journal

                  Irregardless of what you say, I have to agree with c0lo that the word is not used here in Oz.

                  --
                  If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
                  • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @05:00PM (4 children)

                    by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @05:00PM (#1020451)
                    Oz?
                    • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday July 13 2020, @09:44PM (2 children)

                      by MostCynical (2589) on Monday July 13 2020, @09:44PM (#1020734) Journal

                      Oz.. short for "Australia", when pronounced with an "OZ traa lyn" accent (try not to open your mouth or move your tongue, to get the proper effect)

                      --
                      "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
                      • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @10:55PM (1 child)

                        by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @10:55PM (#1020803)
                        Never heard of it, you sure that's really a word?
                        • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Tuesday July 14 2020, @12:26AM

                          by deimtee (3272) on Tuesday July 14 2020, @12:26AM (#1020854) Journal

                          Yep.

                          --
                          If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:22AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 14 2020, @01:22AM (#1020898)

                      You gotta take one of those flying houses to get there.

              • (Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday July 13 2020, @09:40PM

                by MostCynical (2589) on Monday July 13 2020, @09:40PM (#1020731) Journal

                reading TFA may be a crime of some sort; even reading TFS is optional for some people.

                --
                "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by inertnet on Monday July 13 2020, @03:47PM (1 child)

          by inertnet (4071) on Monday July 13 2020, @03:47PM (#1020397) Journal

          I may have seen the word before, but it just sounds wrong to me. I'm not an American, nor am I a native speaker of any other version of English. But I do speak several other languages and I recognize the 'ir' prefix as a negation. Which makes 'irregardless' a tripping word for me, just like "its vs it's" errors. My reading flow, or reading speed, gets interrupted by language errors like that.

          • (Score: 2) by EvilSS on Monday July 13 2020, @04:09PM

            by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @04:09PM (#1020415)
            Well, it should sound wrong, but contextually it should still be possible to discern the meaning when seeing it used. Plus being a non-native speaker I'm sure you have run across many situations where even proper English doesn't always strictly play by its own rules.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Dr Spin on Monday July 13 2020, @08:45PM

          by Dr Spin (5239) on Monday July 13 2020, @08:45PM (#1020670)

          Are you honestly telling me before today you did not know "irregardless" is a informal synonym of "regardless"?

          No, I thought it was a flag to indicate the author was a barely literate hill-billy

          --
          Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @06:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @06:27PM (#1020551)

        The prefix "ir" is a negation.

        Actually, it isn't. The negating prefix is the letter N [stackexchange.com]. However, since the N prefix by itself is pretty voiceless and easy to miss, it's usually accompanied by a vowel. Which vowel depends on the word and the language. German uses predominantly un-, Greek uses an-, and Latin uses in-, to name a few examples. English, being a creole of Romance, German and Nordic languages, uses all of them (unable, ineffable, anarchy). Because the N is a weak consonant, it gets assimilated by most other consonants, which is how you get irrespective and illiterate, for example (but the k sound is incapable of assimilation).

        So if you want to be pedantic (and who doesn't?), the rr in irrespective is a negation. The rest is window dressing.

  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @02:06PM (33 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @02:06PM (#1020302) Journal

    How about this non-word that has always droven me (more) insane: Orientated

    How about Oriented instead?

    --
    When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:17PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:17PM (#1020309)

      did you just key "orientated" into the typing plate of your computator?
      some of us are subject to pervertated brains that will illaboriously constructate wordings that you now have to contemplizate.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:09PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:09PM (#1020346) Journal

        If you've ever heard someone say Orientated, it's truly worse than typing it on the keyboard.

        --
        When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
    • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @02:27PM (13 children)

      by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @02:27PM (#1020316) Homepage Journal

      By that reasoning, would you prefer that "masturbated" be replaced with "masturbed"?

      --
      If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:08PM (2 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:08PM (#1020343) Journal

        The new word "masturbed" would be a cross between "masturbating" and "disturbed".

        --
        When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @04:21PM (1 child)

          by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @04:21PM (#1020421) Homepage Journal

          Disturbation?

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
          • (Score: 4, Funny) by kazzie on Monday July 13 2020, @06:19PM

            by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @06:19PM (#1020547)

            No, that's something to do with the kind of Linux you use.

      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @03:10PM (7 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:10PM (#1020349) Journal

        Certainly not, but again there no "to masturb".
        On the other side, the more common form is "to orient" even if "to orientate" is accepted.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:21PM (4 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:21PM (#1020360) Journal

          I think all uses of Orientated should be Oriented.

          I've heard the "word" used like:

          * just let me get orientated . . .
          * . . . once I get orientated . . .

          I can't be sure, but it might be an Australian thing. I had heard the word earlier in life only in the US. But in the last year or so I seem to recall hearing it on a Cable TV show on Netflix ("Bondi beach"), and a YouTube video or two with a strong Australian accent. So it might be sort of a "dialect" thing.

          --
          When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (3 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (#1020377) Journal

            I can't be sure, but it might be an Australian thing.

            Naw, mate, the Ozzies are quite keen on shortening words.
            But in some sense it may make sense, 'cause "To orient towards Orient" makes for a confuzzy sense.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @05:34PM (1 child)

              by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @05:34PM (#1020509) Homepage Journal

              "To orient towards Orient" makes for a confuzzy sense.

              Absolutely, there's a real danger of becoming completely disoriented, losing one's balance, and having an accident in the Occident!

              --
              If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @05:41PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @05:41PM (#1020523)

                and having an accident in the Occident!

                Just don't hit the occipital, it's not the capital of the Occident.

            • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 14 2020, @03:23PM

              by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday July 14 2020, @03:23PM (#1021278)

              But in some sense it may make sense, 'cause "To orient towards Orient" makes for a confuzzy sense.

              Well, that's easily avoided because "the Orient" is considered an offensive term by most people now anyway.

              --
              "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday July 13 2020, @05:34PM (1 child)

          by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @05:34PM (#1020510) Homepage Journal

          It's like use versus utilize.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @05:43PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @05:43PM (#1020525)

            What is it like? To masturbate?

      • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:12PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:12PM (#1020350)

        For those sporting a kink, I think that works actually. Or maybe if somebody knocks on the door during?

        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @04:16PM

          by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @04:16PM (#1020416) Homepage Journal

          Perhaps the master bedroom has a mastur-bed?

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @03:27PM (16 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @03:27PM (#1020368) Homepage
      What's your noun of action for the verb "orient"?
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (#1020376) Journal

        Oriented?

        --
        When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (7 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:31PM (#1020378) Journal

        Sorry, Orienting?

        --
        When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @04:01PM (5 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @04:01PM (#1020408) Journal

          I'd rather say "orientation", as in "to provide an orientation", but ...
          (after all, 't's your native language, do what you want with it - grin)

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @04:19PM (4 children)

            by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @04:19PM (#1020419) Homepage Journal

            That's what confuses me. If the infinitive is "to orient", shouldn't that then be "oriention" (which is quite hard to say)?

            --
            If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday July 13 2020, @04:32PM (2 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @04:32PM (#1020431) Journal

              shouldn't that then be "oriention"?

              With irregardless being a word... you still expect something logical from the English language?
              (and don't get me started on spelling. Many other countries/languages with sane spelling rules don't waste their kids time with spelling-bees and such non-senses, a time that can be put to better uses)

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 3, Touché) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @05:21PM (1 child)

                by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @05:21PM (#1020486) Homepage Journal

                With irregardless being a word...

                It isn't! ; P Not a proper one, anyway.

                you still expect something logical from the English language?

                It's more a wish than an expectation really.

                --
                If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
                • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @09:04PM

                  by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @09:04PM (#1020687) Homepage
                  > expectation

                  You can expectate what you like, mate. English doesn't bow to such whims.
                  --
                  Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @08:22PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @08:22PM (#1020649)

              Past perfect partiple: "Orientated: the state of having been oriented." Perfect tense seems to be disass-pearing in English. Recently it is alway "pleaded" instead of "pled", in contexts where a past perfect is preferable to a plate of peonies, or a simple past.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @09:11PM

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @09:11PM (#1020695) Homepage
          As C0lo picks up on, I was after the -tion form rather than just the gerund.

          And once you've got that -tion form, there's a process called back formation which is annoyingly regular, by design, so who's to argue against it.

          Does communication take place, that's the only question that needs to be asked. With a lot of modern argot, to be honest, I'm tempted to say the answer's no, but I'm absolutely convinced I can communicate in a way that youngsters wouldn't understand, so it's all fair.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday July 13 2020, @06:20PM (2 children)

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @06:20PM (#1020548)

        Depends whether I'm facing east or not.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday July 13 2020, @09:20PM (1 child)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday July 13 2020, @09:20PM (#1020707) Homepage
          It also depends on whether you're confusing etymology and definition. Linguists don't do that.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @07:13AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 15 2020, @07:13AM (#1021760)

            It also depends on whether you're confusing etymology and definition. Linguists don't do that.

            Perhaps, but cunning linguists try!

      • (Score: 1) by petecox on Monday July 13 2020, @06:38PM (3 children)

        by petecox (3228) on Monday July 13 2020, @06:38PM (#1020564)

        To orient meant to face eastward.

        But surely orientate is the past tense of orient-eat. But now you're just making me hungry when the restaurants are in lockdown.

        • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Monday July 13 2020, @08:54PM (2 children)

          by Dr Spin (5239) on Monday July 13 2020, @08:54PM (#1020677)

          If you learned English at Cambridge University, England:

          To orient yourself is indeed to face east.

          To orientate is to create a process for identifying which direction is east.

          If you learned it elsewhere, then you are probably a hopeless failure, completely beyond redemption.

          I strongly advise against buying dictionaries from illiterates.

          --
          Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
          • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 13 2020, @11:33PM

            by acid andy (1683) on Monday July 13 2020, @11:33PM (#1020825) Homepage Journal

            To orient yourself is indeed to face east.

            To orientate is to create a process for identifying which direction is east.

            So "object-oriented programming language" means objects made the language face east.

            "Object-orientated programming language", errr, would that mean objects created a process for making the language face east?

            --
            If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
          • (Score: 1) by petecox on Monday July 13 2020, @11:42PM

            by petecox (3228) on Monday July 13 2020, @11:42PM (#1020832)

            Cambridge made a decent Latin course. However, Oxford's dictionary of English is better known here in her majesty's COVID19 hotspot of Victoria.

            Anyhow, post-colonial Commonwealth English retains "tomorrow you will orientate yourself with respect to the new Vietnamese menu". Yet here you have me thinking again of east Asian cuisine but my orient-eat gag failed to activate your Cantabrigian wit the first time; tough crowd.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:16PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:16PM (#1020308)

    Sometimes regardless alone doesn't quite regardless enough and you might need a little more.

  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:27PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @02:27PM (#1020317)

    This one seemed to be popular with low-education speakers in the 90s: conversate. They THOUGHT they sounded more intelligent when they used it, but it just made them and their buddies sound even more stupid... but not to their stupid circle.

    "Irregardless" is an even worse error than conversate because it doesn't make logical sense. Dictionaries are supposed to fix errors like this, not propagate them.
    What's next? Entry for "360": "Do a 360" : To make a complete change of direction or course, to head in the opposite direction.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:10PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:10PM (#1020348) Journal

      Would this be the same group that invented the term Vernacular?

      --
      When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:02PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:02PM (#1020335)

    Is noose a word? How about Black? African? If you're offended by words then you are the racist... not the person speaking proper English.
    Help prevent cruelty to humans,
    Make sure to spay or neuter your SJW's.

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:16PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:16PM (#1020352) Journal

      Noose is indeed a word. A word applicable when referencing SJW's.

      Black is a word. It is also a shade of gray, just at one endpoint of the gradient. Or #000000.

      African is a word. Someone who lives in Africa, which is a place and a word. The word could also refer to ancestry.

      Make sure to spay or neuter your SJW's.

      I could be confused or misinformed, but I thought some of them actually wanted that -- as long as the government must pay for it.

      --
      When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday July 13 2020, @08:07PM

        by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday July 13 2020, @08:07PM (#1020637) Journal

        Black is a word. It is also a shade of gray, just at one endpoint of the gradient.

        No. “Black” is a word. Black is very dark grey. Quotes matter.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:08PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:08PM (#1020341)

    Since it is a double negative and universally not used that way, the definition should be obvious.

    irregardless: adj. Self description of the person using the word, meaning: "I'm a fucking idiot".

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:17PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:17PM (#1020355) Journal

      I'm glad to know that.

      In the future, I will say: Not Irregardless . . .

      so that people will know I am not an idiot.

      --
      When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
      • (Score: 2, Funny) by petecox on Tuesday July 14 2020, @12:07AM

        by petecox (3228) on Tuesday July 14 2020, @12:07AM (#1020845)

        Wouldn't 'irregardmore' be simpler?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:29PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:29PM (#1020371)
    Irregardless becoming a word is gay...

    Take that for (ab)usage.
    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday July 13 2020, @03:33PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @03:33PM (#1020380) Journal

      You seem unwelcoming of the transition of Irregardless into a word.

      --
      When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:50PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @03:50PM (#1020401)

        He identifies as Irregardless.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @04:07PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @04:07PM (#1020410)

    language. French is an example of a prescriptive language, they have a Commission for the Enrichment of the French Language that dictates standards like "information fallacieuse" instead of "fake news" and "chemise le plouc" for T-shirt.

    English dictionaries only document current usage, they do not dictate.

    This message brought to you by the *verbs* 'disrespect' and 'gift' and the sentence, 'May I mambo dogface to the banana patch?'

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @08:24PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @08:24PM (#1020652)

      English dictionaries do whatever the hell they want. As you said, we don't have a Royal Academy of the English Language. Therefore, your statement that English dictionaries are proscriptive is not true. There is no coherent policy, but I will grant that many dictionaries DO seem to get prescriptive when it comes to "offensive" words that are targets for elimination or alternatively promotion (neologisms, in the latter case) by the PC police. These "bad words" get marked "offensive" or "archaic."

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 14 2020, @03:17PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday July 14 2020, @03:17PM (#1021274)

      Just because dictionaries are descriptive doesn't mean that you can use words to mean anything you want: I'm looking at you, "literal" abusers.

      The whole point of language is so people can understand each other. If idiots keep misusing words so that things like "literally" gain two or more meanings you have to stop and sort out whenever you have a conversation, they fundamentally damage the idea of a shared language.

      Commenters online often have this moronic notion that prescriptivism is somehow "wrong" or "a disproved theory"--we need both descriptivism and prescriptivism, in sane balance. They're ways of looking at the issue, not falsifiable scientific theories (see also usage of "scientific" to refer to soft sciences like linguistics and other social areas).

      I'm not against the invention of new words, but when people try to tell me that clearly wrong already-existing constructions are now "right" because people use them that way, it gets under my skin.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 1) by taylormc on Monday July 13 2020, @04:07PM

    by taylormc (5751) on Monday July 13 2020, @04:07PM (#1020411)

    See title

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by epitaxial on Monday July 13 2020, @05:02PM

    by epitaxial (3165) on Monday July 13 2020, @05:02PM (#1020456)

    They already had to change the definition of the word literally because nobody could use it correctly.

  • (Score: 1) by justin on Monday July 13 2020, @05:04PM (1 child)

    by justin (4224) on Monday July 13 2020, @05:04PM (#1020460)

    "Irregardless" is a shibboleth dumb people use to identify each other.

    • (Score: 1) by pTamok on Monday July 13 2020, @07:08PM

      by pTamok (3042) on Monday July 13 2020, @07:08PM (#1020580)

      "Irregardless" is a shibboleth dumb people use to identify each other.

      Shibboleth used by dumb people? Really? Perhaps you know not what a shibboleth is: or maybe what dumb means.

      To clarify:

      The term shibboleth originates from the Hebrew word shibbólet (שִׁבֹּלֶת), the pronunciation of which was used to distinguish Ephraimites, whose dialect used a differently sounding first consonant, from Gileadites. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth [wikipedia.org] )
      Dumb means "silent, speechless, mute" ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dumb [wiktionary.org] ), the derogatory sense coming later.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Monday July 13 2020, @05:46PM (2 children)

    by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 13 2020, @05:46PM (#1020531) Homepage Journal

    "Irregardless" is a double negative.

    Since educated Englishmen learned Latin and Greek grammar and logic and imposed it on their understanding of English, the taught rule became that double negatives are positives.

    It wasn't always so. Older English conventions used doubling of a negation to mean a stronger negation.

    And there are languages where a negation, to be properly expressed, needs to be distributed throughout the sentence. Just to be clear.

    I've started using "nor" in negative disjunctions just to make it clear that the negative extends to the entire disjunction, and not just to its first element. English, unlike mathematics, doesn't group using parentheses.

    There appears not to be a dual "nand" in English.

    -- hendrik

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by pTamok on Monday July 13 2020, @07:13PM

      by pTamok (3042) on Monday July 13 2020, @07:13PM (#1020583)

      Since educated Englishmen learned Latin and Greek grammar and logic and imposed it on their understanding of English, the taught rule became that double negatives are positives.

      It wasn't always so. Older English conventions used doubling of a negation to mean a stronger negation.

      And there are languages where a negation, to be properly expressed, needs to be distributed throughout the sentence. Just to be clear.

      I am reminded of the joke about a lecture on the English language where the lecturer stated the above and went on to say there were no instances of languages using doubled positives as negatives, to which the response from the audience was a drawl of "Yeeaah, riiiight." from a young member.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Tuesday July 14 2020, @03:10PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday July 14 2020, @03:10PM (#1021269)

      Was coming in here to point out the same thing about it being a double-negative.

      English, unlike mathematics, doesn't group using parentheses.

      Do constructions like "there's no way I won't do that" not count, since the negatives are separated in the sentence? And/or does the hypothetical tense disqualify it?

      I've started using "nor" in negative disjunctions

      Then there's also the part where or vs xor in English is a bit ambiguous as well.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @05:53PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @05:53PM (#1020537)

    i think one is used when countering with a logical background whilst the other is exclaimed by someone with emotional bias -aka- st0pid but rich?

  • (Score: 2) by jimtheowl on Monday July 13 2020, @06:28PM

    by jimtheowl (5929) on Monday July 13 2020, @06:28PM (#1020553)
    .. and flammable also mean the same thing.

    It took me a while to stop setting myself on fire, now I'll have to pay attention to how I "regard" things.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @07:03PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 13 2020, @07:03PM (#1020577)

    Sounds like an emphatic form of a word “regardless” to me, however weird it is.

  • (Score: 2) by DutchUncle on Monday July 13 2020, @07:26PM

    by DutchUncle (5370) on Monday July 13 2020, @07:26PM (#1020591)

    It's like "I could care less" which is the exact WRONG opposite meaning of the intended meaning "I could NOT care less"

  • (Score: 2) by Bot on Monday July 13 2020, @07:57PM

    by Bot (3902) on Monday July 13 2020, @07:57PM (#1020618) Journal

    English is a hybrid language. And let's not even mention American English.
    This is not bad per se, but, the academics quarrelling about details like the double negation of IRREGARDLESS or the single one in INFLAMMABLE are arguing whether a street whore really loves you when she says darling.

    --
    Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 2) by shortscreen on Monday July 13 2020, @09:13PM

    by shortscreen (2252) on Monday July 13 2020, @09:13PM (#1020699) Journal

    I'm offensificationated by this (#`Д´)

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