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posted by martyb on Friday August 23 2019, @06:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the tragedy-of-the-commons dept.

I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.

Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.

[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]

[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @07:33AM (23 children)

    by Bot (3902) on Friday August 23 2019, @07:33AM (#883969) Journal

    There IS a right and wrong way, unfortunately it's those pushing the wrong ways who usually want them to be perceived as THE UNDISPUTABLE TRUTH(tm)

    --
    Account abandoned.
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +1  
       Interesting=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Interesting' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Friday August 23 2019, @08:40AM (9 children)

    by shrewdsheep (5215) on Friday August 23 2019, @08:40AM (#883991)

    Please define truth.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @08:47AM (7 children)

      by Bot (3902) on Friday August 23 2019, @08:47AM (#883993) Journal

      Experience is what I am doing right now.
      If you discard solipsism it is what you are doing right now.
      Real is what can directly or indirectly influence experience.
      Truth is a statement that describes reality.

      This sidesteps the misconception that real is the infrastructure, which has you wondering about the implementation of the universe down to QM and below, and which you can fully discover but you can't prove you fully discovered.

      Question, in the field of chess games what is real for the chess piece? A. the state of the board. Not the wood which makes up an implementation of the board.

      --
      Account abandoned.
      • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday August 23 2019, @09:20AM (3 children)

        by maxwell demon (1608) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 23 2019, @09:20AM (#884004) Journal

        Experience is what I am doing right now.
        If you discard solipsism it is what you are doing right now.

        No it is your experience that would be questioned if I didn't disregard solipsism. You can disregard my experience if you consider solipsism, but as long I I do it, my experience is the one that is without doubt.

        --
        The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @03:39PM (2 children)

          by Bot (3902) on Friday August 23 2019, @03:39PM (#884164) Journal

          "If you discard the solipsist hypothesis..."
          better now?
          this is what programming in java does to meatbags

          --
          Account abandoned.
          • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday August 23 2019, @05:06PM (1 child)

            by maxwell demon (1608) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 23 2019, @05:06PM (#884237) Journal

            No, not better. You obviously completely missed my point. Had you changed "you" to "I" in your sentence, then it would have been an improvement.

            And BTW, I don't program in Java.

            --
            The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @07:23PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @07:23PM (#884307)

              I am not Bot, that is to say the individual typing this is not in any way the same individual who is identified by the user ID "Bot". Perhaps the Java programming comment was self-referential and utilizing third person conception to allow a greasy bag of mostly water to pretend to be made of sterner stuff.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday August 23 2019, @04:03PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday August 23 2019, @04:03PM (#884189) Journal

        Those who refuse to learn philosophy, are forced to repeat it.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 4, Funny) by J053 on Friday August 23 2019, @08:23PM

          by J053 (3532) <{dakine} {at} {shangri-la.cx}> on Friday August 23 2019, @08:23PM (#884335) Homepage

          Those who refuse to learn philosophy, are forced to repeat it.

          During a summer session, just before fall semester starts.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by aristarchus on Saturday August 24 2019, @08:04AM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday August 24 2019, @08:04AM (#884622) Journal

          For those who are less eruidite, it was an American philosopher, George Santayana, [wikiquote.org] who said:

          Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.

          But the most recent iteration is:

          Those who do not know their history are condemned to repeat it, but those who do remember their history are also condemned to repeat it, but at least they will know what the hell is going on.

          But philosophy, it never repeats, it is a constant recycling of ideas, so that Ibn Sina's "Falling Man" can become Descartes "Cogito", and re-emerge as "Neo" in the Matrix, the Whale and Petunia in "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", the focal character in "Vanilla Sky", and Mike "Pence". Mike Pence dare not think, therefore (ergo!), he does not exist.

          So, back to our topic, once you discount solipcism: but why would you do that, since it means you do not exist?

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday August 23 2019, @03:04PM

      by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Friday August 23 2019, @03:04PM (#884142) Journal

      Only if you promise to wash your hands.

      --
      This sig for rent.
  • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday August 23 2019, @11:58AM (11 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday August 23 2019, @11:58AM (#884047) Journal

    Indeed there is. And guess what? Your corrupted, 3/4th-ignorant bastardized version of Christianity isn't it. The complete lack of self-awareness in your posts is incredible.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Friday August 23 2019, @02:43PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 23 2019, @02:43PM (#884120) Homepage Journal

      Your corrupted, 3/4th-ignorant bastardized version of Christianity

      🙄

      --
      Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday August 23 2019, @03:51PM (9 children)

      by Bot (3902) on Friday August 23 2019, @03:51PM (#884170) Journal

      The source is quite clear on the matter. Matthew 10:34

      "Non veni pacem mittere sed gladium..."

      This is quite clear, and BTW sword does not mean war

      "... veni enim separare hominem adversus patrem suum, et filiam adversus matrem suam, et nurum adversus socrum suam"

      but separation. Same chapter, the explicit instruction to give up when they don't LISTEN to you (which is worse than not believe of course).

      --
      Account abandoned.
      • (Score: 3, Touché) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday August 23 2019, @06:28PM (6 children)

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Friday August 23 2019, @06:28PM (#884278)

        ラテン語が読めない人のために英語の翻訳を追加してください

        Please add an English translation for those of us to can not read Latin
        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday August 23 2019, @07:16PM (2 children)

          by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Friday August 23 2019, @07:16PM (#884302) Journal

          Matthew Chapter 10, NIV:
              “34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

          “‘a man against his father,
                  a daughter against her mother,
          a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

          And then stopped before 36.

          36
                  a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

          NIV Link [biblegateway.com]

          Link to the chapter in the Vulgate: [biblegateway.com]

          34 Nolite arbitrari quia pacem venerim mittere in terram: non veni pacem mittere, sed gladium:

          35 veni enim separare hominem adversus patrem suum, et filiam adversus matrem suam, et nurum adversus socrum suam:

          36 et inimici hominis, domestici ejus.

          --
          This sig for rent.
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @11:26PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 23 2019, @11:26PM (#884409)

            How about the original Hebrew?

            Μὴ νομίσητε ὅτι ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν· οὐκ ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἀλλὰ μάχαιραν.

            • (Score: 2) by martyb on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:57PM

              by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:57PM (#884836) Journal

              How about the original Hebrew?

              Μὴ νομίσητε ὅτι ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν· οὐκ ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἀλλὰ μάχαιραν.

              Original Hebrew? That's all Greek to me!

              =)

              --
              Wit is intellect, dancing.
        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:34AM (1 child)

          by Gaaark (41) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:34AM (#884515) Journal

          You should just say, "Don't quote the Bibble as if it is real".
          Bibble is fiction.

          --
          --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
          • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:45AM

            by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:45AM (#884576)

            Even worse, he has a goatee [darthsanddroids.net]

        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday August 29 2019, @07:12AM

          by Bot (3902) on Thursday August 29 2019, @07:12AM (#887200) Journal

          that would be racist against non-English-speakers. You must live under quite an oppressing firewall if you can't google up the passage reference.

          --
          Account abandoned.
      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:57AM (1 child)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:57AM (#884454) Journal

        You don't seem to understand that you've ended up entirely on the wrong side of that divide though...oh well. The ol' murder manual did say many would be fooled in the last days...

        And, Jesus (heh) Latin is an ugly, awful language. I much prefer the Koine. Even English is better.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Saturday August 24 2019, @07:26PM

          by Bot (3902) on Saturday August 24 2019, @07:26PM (#884874) Journal

          Latin is a precise, essential language. It will be abandoned, not for lack of suitability to the new requirements of progress, but because the new men will be unsuitable to it. When the era of demagogues, of the charlatans, will begin, a language like Latin won't be useful anymore and whatever moron will be able to effortlessly hold a public speech without fear of getting kicked down the stage. And the secret will be that, using an insufficiently defined way of speaking, elusive and with a captivating sound, will be able to speak for a hour and convey nothing. Which is impossible with Latin

          G. Guareschi

          Note, I don't fully agree. The work of Seneca and Cicero comes to mind.

          --
          Account abandoned.
  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday August 23 2019, @09:43PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday August 23 2019, @09:43PM (#884371)

    There may be a right and wrong way of thinking for some topics.

    For most topics, thinking that you or anyone has the right way is most certainly wrong.

    --
    Україна досі не є частиною Росії. https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/878601.html Слава Україні 🌻