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posted by martyb on Friday August 23 2019, @06:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the tragedy-of-the-commons dept.

I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.

Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.

[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]

[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday August 23 2019, @04:20PM (4 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday August 23 2019, @04:20PM (#884206) Journal

    Azuma, the only response in a free society to a prevailing perception, or a perceived prevailing perception, is to counter it with all the wit and logic you can. If you think a majority is in error, it is incumbent upon you to challenge it.

    Free speech and democracy are not qualities that are won or defended by the timid. They have to be fought for every day, everywhere, by everyone. Freedom and democracy only exist in the tension between people with different points of view. It's true generally, but it's also true on SN.

    The idea of silencing anyone for "wrongthink" through troll mods or some other artifice fills me with horror. Suggesting that anyone should not be allowed to express an opinion that is "wrongthink" totally and instantly annuls any value that the censor's argument has. It says that the censor himself does not believe his own views have enough merit to stand up next to others'.

    I'm going to suggest something upsetting: people we disagree strongly with make valid points, too.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +3  
       Insightful=1, Interesting=1, Informative=1, Total=3
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by acid andy on Friday August 23 2019, @07:31PM

    by acid andy (1683) on Friday August 23 2019, @07:31PM (#884314) Homepage Journal

    I'm going to suggest something upsetting: people we disagree strongly with make valid points, too.

    That's true sometimes but not all the time. I haven't seen very many posts on here modded Troll that were making valid, qualified points in a respectful manner.

    --
    If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:28AM (2 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday August 24 2019, @12:28AM (#884430) Journal

    And what precisely do you think I'm doing on this site? You've seen me in action. Look at what happens when Runaway or Hallow or Uzzard or J-Mo come by and drop a load of steaming stenching brain-diarrhea; more often than not I'm along shortly to point out to those who may be deceived that 1) it *is* shit despite the originators telling them it's chocolate and to take a big bite and 2) WHY it's shit.

    But we have a problem of entropy here: it's a lot easier to shit on the carpet than to clean the shitstains out of the carpet, and it's also fucking exhausting to try, especially when there's virtually no payoff.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Mykl on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:05AM (1 child)

      by Mykl (1112) on Saturday August 24 2019, @02:05AM (#884501)

      Azuma, many of your rebuttals to people tend to either consist of telling them that they are terrible people, or attacking them for their posting history rather than the content of the actual post in question. I've called you on that before, and your reply was something to the effect of "Yes, but this is a terrible person who has a history of terrible posts - don't be fooled by this one!"

      Shouting at people and calling them shit-stains is not the same as engaging in reasoned debate. And if your response is to say "There's no point in debating these people - they are beyond reason", then what do you hope to gain by replying at all? It's not like they are going to change their mind through personal insults.

      More often than not, I tend to agree with your position on the matter being debated, but I am rarely able to agree with the manner in which you do so. The level of vitriol that comes from some of your posts is simply too high, and in my opinion it tends to de-value the points that you're trying to make.

      I'm posting this because I really value your perspective and different viewpoint to other prominent posters here (I don't want a monoculture) and I want to continue to hear your views on topics we discuss. I just find it hard to keep reading when you start shouting at people.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @09:18AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 24 2019, @09:18AM (#884635)

        many of your rebuttals to people tend to either consist of telling them that they are terrible people, or attacking them for their posting history rather than the content of the actual post in question.

        Yeah! I hate when people do that to racists, misogynists, anti-trans folks, and Nazis! I mean, how does calling them terrible people further a dialogue where it might be the case that aryan races are in fact, historically, superior to the inferior races? Such hatred is just so unhelpful! If only we could have serious discussion, like, perhaps about The Skulls on our caps [youtube.com]. Are they the Baddies? Why skulls? Because they are the baddies.