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posted by martyb on Friday August 23 2019, @06:17AM   Printer-friendly
from the tragedy-of-the-commons dept.

I was going to post this to a particular story, but thought this might generate more attention and discussion as a general submission.

Seriously, what is going on with all these troll mods? Just because you disagree with someone, thus earning a "disagree" mod, does not mean that person is a "troll." To steal a definition from Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Just because you disagree with someone, does not mean they are trying to do the above. Be faster on the "disagree" and slower on the "troll." Under such abuse, it is hard to have a good discussion and, in itself, is trollish behavior by "generally disrupt[ing] normal on-topic discussion." Other than people disciplining themselves, a concerted effort to police such abuses, or making moderation logs public on the bottom of a comment where the score is shown now, I'm unsure of what to do about. As it stands, it is getting increasingly ridiculous to read what discussion is here on any topic remotely controversial, and is expanding outside of even those. It is starting to drive me away from the site, and I'm somewhat confident it is doing the same for others. I'd be interested to see what others think about the depth of the problem, if they even believe it even exists at all, and what solutions you all have for it.

[Ed note. This story is published exactly as received. First off, it bears repeating that complaining about moderations in the comments often leads (rightly) to an off-topic moderation. That is a contributing factor to my decision to run this story. Secondly, moderation is something that I on occasion have found I've fat-fingered and given a different moderation than expected. Thirdly, in the grand scheme of things, a comment's moderation is — relatively speaking — small potatoes. It is NOT a measure of your IQ or value as a human being. or standing in the community. Just accept that stuff happens and that as likely as not, someone will be along to moderate it the other way. Which is a good opportunity to say: PLEASE USE YOUR MOD POINTS! Lastly, if you think a comment was moderated in error, then send the CID (Comment ID) link e.g. "(#876543)" in an email to admin (at) soylentnews (dot) org. Keep in mind however that we are all volunteers here and there most likely will be a delay between when you send out an email and when we can get around to it. --martyb]

[Updated: 20190823_111312 UTC See comment from JR who far more precisely and eloquently expressed the idea I was attempting to. I concur with his assessment. If I want people to upmod a comment of mine that I believe was unfairly downmodded, then I need to be willing to upmod other's mis-modded comments. For perspective, so far this month, anywhere from ~150-~350 mod points were used in any given day. It bears repeating: use your mod points!]


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  • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:49PM (6 children)

    by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Saturday August 24 2019, @04:49PM (#884812) Journal

    Well, look, if you don't find it extremely coincidental (i.e., beyond belief) that a journal entry that I explicitly declared would be my last interaction with this site, and where I called out TMB for really bad behavior, calling the other admins to action is the ONLY time that I can recall in years of interacting with this site that I've ever seen a post appear and then disappear... if you think that's just some sort of weird coincidence, or you believe TMB's bullshit that I would somehow just hit "preview" and forget to submit what I intended to be my last interaction with a community I've supported for years... if you really think that any of that sounds likely, you're already a lost cause.

    But I already came close to saying that about you in the journal entry too, so all I'm getting here is response from the specific two admins I called out, who are both trying to act like I just did something stupid, so it must be an error: "nothing to see here."

    If there's one thing I hope I've accrued over the years here is that I don't make shit up. I try my best to seek out facts. And I've gone to the bat for this site against those who would criticize it many times. My post history is there for all to see. I do NOT make such an accusation against an admin in this community lightly, but it beggars belief to claim this will turn out to be some random error that just HAPPENS to coincide with the perfect opportunity for an admin to abuse power and protect himself by deleting a post from a user who is leaving the site.

    (Yes, I'm still leaving. Whether that has an impact on your "investigation" or not, I don't care. I'm sticking around to see the ridiculous spin you guys may try to put on this. I want to make sure that everyone knows what you're doing. I'm already out a bunch of money recently for putting my faith in a site administered by a troll, but I took my chances. I was willing to just leave last night, but this sort of action is an egregious offense against the community, and that has tipped me from "I don't care what happens to this godforsaken place" to "People need to know there's serious internal problems here before I depart.")

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:15PM (4 children)

    by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:15PM (#884821) Journal

    all I'm getting here is response from the specific two admins I called out, who are both trying to act like I just did something stupid,

    You have had a response from 1 of the 2 admins that you called out. I'm still waiting to see what we discover.

    • (Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:52PM (3 children)

      by AthanasiusKircher (5291) on Saturday August 24 2019, @05:52PM (#884835) Journal

      Jesus Christ, really? You aren't even aware of what you wrote [soylentnews.org] as your initial response? "I've been here and didn't see it, so nothin' to see here. Are you sure you aren't an idiot and actually didn't post it?" And you said that despite the fact that my first post clearly stated a time frame that wasn't within the time frame you claimed to be present in your post.

      I'm willing to believe your post was more in ignorance than actively trying to be a snow job, but realize that your first reaction was PRECISELY what the "other admin" has basically already concluded.

      I knew TMB was a troll. I wasn't aware until this thread (before our present discussion) how much you seem to support trollish behavior. So no, I don't trust you. I don't trust anyone here anymore. Sorry, but that's gone.

      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:42PM (2 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Saturday August 24 2019, @06:42PM (#884853) Journal

        I didn't say:

        I've been here and didn't see it, so nothin' to see here. Are you sure you aren't an idiot and actually didn't post it

        What I did say was:

        Are you sure that you posted it successfully?

        by which I was asking if the system had accepted it properly and I did not suggest that you were an idiot. Did you access it from the front page or did you do all of your editing from the editing pages and then press submit? Can you give us more details of the sequence that you tried to deselect comments or re-enable them again? Did it appear at the top of the journal list - in which case we might find evidence of it in the list of journal posts? If you are not prepared to answer simple polite questions then it will significantly hinder our chances of finding out what happened to it.

        We have had a couple of minor hiccups since the system went down a few days back. These are nothing unusual but, for the moment, we are looking at each one. Bytram had a problem downloading pages at around the same time that you stated that you posted your journal. Bytram is at work and so we cannot get all the details from him until he gets home, logs in (which might not be today) and we get to discuss the problem. We also need TMB to look closely to the DB logs to see if there are any artefacts that your post left behind i.e. at what stage of the posting sequence did it go missing? If you are expecting an immediate answer then you will be disappointed.

        If you have already reached your own conclusions then so be it, and if you are still in a mind to you can go on your way. I am trying to be polite, civil and to find out what happened. I haven't got any irons in this fire, so if you don't care what we find I will wish you well for the future and I am genuinely sorry that you are leaving us. You have supported this site well, as you have claimed, and I think that the community will be the poorer for your leaving.

        I have no idea what you wrote about me in your journal - nor do I care - but I do care if there is a problem with posting in general. I also care that you are making serious yet unsupported allegations and claiming that there is some kind of cover up going on behind the scenes. I can only shake my head in disbelief as to what you think we spend our time doing here. But that doesn't prevent me from offering my help in finding out what occurred.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 28 2019, @09:22PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 28 2019, @09:22PM (#886980)
          His post shows up for me.
          • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday August 29 2019, @06:07AM

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 29 2019, @06:07AM (#887185) Journal
            Are you saying that you can see the Journal entry that has allegedly been deleted - or are you missing the point of the conversation?
  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday August 25 2019, @02:08PM

    I find it highly unlikely that you genuinely believe I shied away from an argument of any sort.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.