Huawei on List of 20 Chinese Companies That Pentagon Says Are Controlled by People’s Liberation Army:
The Pentagon put Huawei Technologies and Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology on a list of 20 companies it says are owned or controlled by China's military, opening them up to potential additional U.S. sanctions.
In letters to lawmakers dated June 24, the Pentagon said it was providing a list of "Communist Chinese military companies operating in the United States." The list was first requested in the fiscal 1999 defense policy law.
This list includes "entities owned by, controlled by, or affiliated with China's government, military, or defense industry," Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement.
[...] The companies on the list are:
Aviation Industry Corporation of China
China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation
China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation
China Electronics Technology Group Corporation
China South Industries Group Corporation
China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation
China State Shipbuilding Corporation
China North Industries Group Corporation
Huawei Technologies Co.
Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Co.
Inspur Group; Aero Engine Corporation of China
China Railway Construction Corporation
CRRC Corp.; Panda Electronics Group
Dawning Information Industry Co.
China Mobile Communications Group
China General Nuclear Power Corp.
China National Nuclear Power Corp.
China Telecommunications Corp.
Given how inter-connected the world is, how practical would it be to avoid all such Chinese companies?
Related Stories
Huawei to stop making flagship chipsets as U.S. pressure bites, Chinese media say:
Huawei Technologies Co will stop making its flagship Kirin chipsets next month, financial magazine Caixin said on Saturday, as the impact of U.S. pressure on the Chinese tech giant grows.
U.S. pressure on Huawei's suppliers has made it impossible for the company's HiSilicon chip division to keep making the chipsets, key components for mobile phone, Richard Yu, CEO of Huawei's Consumer Business Unit was quoted as saying at the launch of the company's new Mate 40 handset.
[...] "From Sept. 15 onward, our flagship Kirin processors cannot be produced," Yu said, according to Caixin. "Our AI-powered chips also cannot be processed. This is a huge loss for us."
Huawei's HiSilicon division relies on software from U.S. companies such as Cadence Design Systems Inc or Synopsys Inc to design its chips and it outsources the production to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC), which uses equipment from U.S. companies.
Also at PhoneArena.
Previously: Arrest of Huawei Executive Causing Discontent Among Chinese Elites
Huawei Soldiers on, Announces Nova 5 and Kirin 810
U.S. Attempting to Restrict TSMC Sales to Huawei
TSMC Dumps Huawei
Huawei on List of 20 Chinese Companies that Pentagon Says are Controlled by People's Liberation Army
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 25 2020, @07:03PM (11 children)
We can make an argument that _EVERYTHING_AND_EVERYBODY_ in China is "controlled by" the PLA.
Look right here, in the US. Neither you nor I have constant hand-on control applied to us, each and every day. But, we are "controlled" by the NSA, CIA, FBI, etc. Do you pay your taxes? Sales tax? Yes, even on the internet now, because gubbermint decreed that it would be so. Income tax? Property tax? You mostly obey the traffic laws? I'll bet most of you address police officers as "Sir".
If some assholes in the alphabet world are going to make such claims, maybe they should get really specific. General Chou owns China Immobile Asshattery, and Chairman Liu owns China Mobile Asshattery, and both are commanded by Wang High Command.
I don't even much like China, or our relations with China. But I do get tired of all the silly bullshit. When I was a child, we could play "make believe" and come up with equal or better plots.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by krishnoid on Thursday June 25 2020, @07:41PM (7 children)
In the US, at least, you can complain about the government and protest in the streets -- just the threat to crack down on anything like that in China seems like control enough.
When all Internet traffic goes through a censorship firewall, your "social credit score" turns peer pressure into a published metric, I don't even know if they separate out the use of national-level military force to put down local uprisings, how can the Pentagon say that the level of im/explicit government "influence" over the entire civilian/industrial/military population there doesn't approach the level of what would be considered "control", or at least "undue influence" here?
To be SJW about it, I use "officer". It's not like they're landed gentry or been knighted or something.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @10:04PM (5 children)
You can also be pepper sprayed and arrested for doing so, even when you are not hostile to the officers doing so.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @05:17AM
Classic fascism
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:05PM (3 children)
Or be a reported on a live broadcast and get shot at by police with non-lethal but permanent injuring roundings.
See here for lots of links: https://nitter.net/georgedoucette/ [nitter.net]
And for the record he's a conservative former techie who is now a lawyer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:07PM (1 child)
https://nitter.net/gregdoucette/ [nitter.net]
That is somewhat awkward since the other is a windows guy :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:10PM
https://twitter.com/greg_doucette [twitter.com]
Need my coffee.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:19PM
Greg Douchette is a broke ass lawyer and full time Twitter clown. He should be the one doing the field reporting.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday June 25 2020, @10:15PM
In the US, you can protest all you want, it doesn't change anything at all. It's just an illusion of democracy. At least China doesn't pretend to be anything other than a police state.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday June 25 2020, @10:35PM
I mean, the really easy counterargument is that any company that gets a significant portion of its revenue from either a TLA or the Dept of Defense is controlled by the Pentagon. Obvious entries on that list include Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, and Halliburton.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @01:27AM (1 child)
Sure in general we can say that, but the level of control is really quite different. The Chinese don't actually try to pretend there's a separation between the state and incorporated companies. They don't in principle say Apple Inc is a private sector company free to pursue its own corporate vision as long as they abide by the laws of the US and the government won't actively play a role in directing the company's strategy. Of course we know there are enough corruption around that this separation isn't necessarily true, especially when it comes to industries that can provide the state geo-political benefits like oil.
With Chinese companies, especially the ones they "export", you pretty much have to assume the Chinese government will dictate the company's strategy and operations regardless of industry, real-estate, tech, e-commerce, etc. and they don't even bother trying to hide it as far as I can tell. They officially deny it to the West because it is to their advantage to maintain this charade and its also probably because the West is this little naive kid that think that official separation is still the best strategy. It really isn't anymore, China's playing a different game for a while now at the next level - the West really need to move on.
The fact that Trump is calling this out is at least doing something and acknowleging this, though not the best way to go about it perhaps. The folks that just critizes him for the sake of it, and yes he's really an idiot, but don't bother to acknowlege the problem nor offer alternate options or at least discourse in the matter are really just trolls. They'll deserve the day when the Chinese speaking debt collector knocks on their door.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:14AM
> China's playing a different game for a while now at the next level - the West really need to move on.
China is an authoritarian state. It's ruled by fear and corruption. If you think the 1B losers who are not on the inside track LIKE that system, you're very wrong.
If the USA to move to that system, we'd have to have laws massively favoring a small fraction, like 1% or 0.01% of the population. Oh...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @07:06PM (10 children)
Why wouldn’t they be? It is a communist nation, only pretending to run businesses, to take part in international trade, for profit.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 25 2020, @09:40PM (8 children)
China is nothing like a communist country, and it's participation in international trade is done with the help of international capital.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Friday June 26 2020, @01:29AM (7 children)
"Communist" might not be the right word, but it is a totalitarian regime. Why would democratic nations assume whatever they export, including the companies that exports goods and services should play by the same rules? Trump aside for calling this out, are our politicos and our corporate CEOs really that naive?
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Friday June 26 2020, @01:41AM (5 children)
"Communist" is entirely the wrong word, but the Chinese Communist Party is certainly totalitarian, yes.
If you can remember back to when China decided to allow foreign investment in the early 1990's, they set rules for that investment, and the western companies desperate to take advantage of a massive new source of cheap labour were well aware of those rules.
Naivety has absolutely nothing to do with any of it, Greed is the term you're looking for.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @01:56AM (2 children)
Bean counters run the corporations, so loyalty to the corporation or the country is always put behind the bottom line and filling their own pockets with "bonuses".
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Friday June 26 2020, @03:05AM (1 child)
That is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work.
If a corporation has access to a huge supply of really cheap labour that improves profits now they have no choice but to go for it, because if they don't their competition will, and they will wind up being absorbed by that competition later.
The Chinese were well aware of that and took advantage.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @05:39AM
True and the government is suppose to provide a bit of control, but haven't - likely because they're in the pockets of those corp. and leeching off the gravy train. Now that someone's pointed it out instead of addressing it, all that's happening is the usual ad hominem and nitpicking on semantics - creating a smokescreen. Funnily enough the sheeple are so engross in their personal hate for the Orange one to actually get their electoral base to think about the issue.
I'm really curious to see once the Orange idiot leaves office if it is back to business as usual - and back to bed with the Chinese. If it is the west is screwed and Asia will be lost cause as it is none of the Asian countries on their own can halt the Chinese expansion - nor can any of them rally enough of the other Asian countries to give much of a defense. Even if they did, without some of the major Western powers to back them, its just prolonging the inevitable.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @11:40PM (1 child)
>> "Communist" is entirely the wrong word, but the Chinese Communist Party is certainly totalitarian, yes.
I don't have any ideological dog in the threads for this post, just had an interesting anecdote that I thought I'd throw out after reading your post.
My next door neighbor managed to get out of China a little over 10 years ago, and is raising his family here. While I was worried about cars, chasing women and which shift I'd get at the restaurant, he was busting his ass on his family's farm in Southern China. He calls the political situation right now in China "communism 2.0". According to him, president Xi has either a senior advisor, VP-equivalent, whatever, who's relationship is similar to the one between Bush Jr. and Cheney, with Xi's "VP" playing the role of Cheney. The story I was told was that Xi isn't as bright as some others, and as a result our Cheney-analog has a lot of power- and he is dead set on restarting the cultural revolution while simultaneously expanding China's sphere of influence. Apparently he wants to "do it right" this time, in the opinion of my neighbor.
This Cheney analog's name might sound like "who" or "wu", hell I don't know as I don't know peanut butter from dogshit about China except stuff about a few major events. That having been said, some of the stories I've been told while sharing a beer with my neighbor can be pretty dark. IF they are true, and this guy isn't prone to bullshitting much, then the fucking man-children whining about how bad things are here would have a life-altering experience were they to be stuck in China for a year or two as a Chinese citizen.
For instance, if these Precious, Outraged, Morally Justified keepers of the Flame of Self-Righteous Indignation were to: Protest on behalf of how the Uyghurs have been treated (very badly), carry a sign saying "Free Tibet" or "I love the Dhali Lama", find spiritual enlightenment through Falun Gong, or simply say on social media that the demands of the Tiananmen Square protesters were justified, then it's unlikely we'd see or hear from them again until their attitudes were readjusted by the State... if we ever did hear from them again. Not to say we don't have our own problems here, but you will not see Chinese people taking over the downtown center of a city, no matter -what- the provocation... Ever. The bottom line is the Chinese state can take Chinese citizens that do these things and fuck'm like tied goats, at noon, on main street, as marching parades pass by, without consequences.
After re-reading what became a rant: here I said I didn't have ideology to pontificate about- Welp, Post-work margaritas strike again. Once I get going...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 29 2020, @12:56AM
That's not an if. Its been happening for a while already. If doesn't even have to be anything particularly ideological, as an example there was crack down on some of the celebrities doing tax evasion and similar SOP, nab em with no due process, hold em indefinitely until they comply; those that do gets released, forced to do a public press release apologizing how remorseful they are not doing good to the regime, etc.
They also nab anyone that travels through their jurisdiction that they think slighted them.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday June 26 2020, @08:10PM
The more a system deviates from natural law the stronger its enforcement must be.
But, the system is not the justification for socialism, but the other way round, socialism is the excuse for instating the all seeing eye bureaucracy.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Sunday June 28 2020, @06:26PM
Funny how you managed to get it exactly the other way around.
China in a business pretending to be a communist nation.
The company 'CCP' or China CorP will do anything to survive.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @07:30PM
Ya Don't Say!
...but srsly as just an average american AC,
would be maybe the only one that *would* surprise me!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by legont on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:00PM
One could just check holdings of any US "defense" mutual fund. https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/316390806 [fidelity.com]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RamiK on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:01PM (4 children)
In American, corporations control government!
The butt of the joke [wikipedia.org] is that the people have about as much of a say on what corporations do in the US as they do about the government does in China.
Now, back to pretending demonstrations and votes do anything when not backed by actual firepower.
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:38PM (3 children)
Are you suggesting that political power grows from the barrel of a gun? Hmmm - sounds familiar - who said that before you did?
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday June 25 2020, @09:49PM
This guy did. [wikipedia.org]
But he may not have been the first.
(Score: 3, Touché) by RamiK on Thursday June 25 2020, @10:11PM (1 child)
Political power grows from economic circumstances... Watered by the blood of whomever is on the other side of the barrel... Fertilized by the ideology of choice... Pruned by ongoing geopolitical stresses... [apply Scottish accent] Brushed by the winds of change... Led by rational and shined on by the light of God / Gods / Lucifer / Demons / Spaghetti Monsters... Accounted by the celestial bureaucracy / the Church in Rome / Jesus in each and every one of our hearts / the Emperor / God...
Probably short of a few car analogies?
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @11:59PM
That economic power is how they afford the guns they need to take political power.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:01PM (7 children)
I had lunch today at Pagoda Chinese Restaurant and one of the menu items, General Tso Chicken, shows they have a clear connection to the Chinese army.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:17PM (2 children)
I've been to at least one Chinese restaurant that seemed like a money laundering front. Seedy location, almost no traffic during lunch time the few times I went, gave me shrimp instead of chicken once. Pretty good strategy tbh.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:27PM (1 child)
There might be a weird thing at some Chinese places where they'll insist on giving you something you don't want. It happened to us once and we finally had to send back the dish when it arrived, *then* they got the message. They were heavily accented English speakers, but I thought "no" was about the easiest thing to understand, and w kept saying it. It only happened to me once, but it sticks out in my mind to this day. I wonder if the inflection on "no" made them think we really wanted it, because Chinese is a tonal language and they might not have gotten used to English not being tonal.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:44PM
My Japanese instructor told me some japanese dialects are also tonal. But she came from a region where the local dialect was not tonal. She thought tonality was odd.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:37AM (1 child)
Does it taste better than Colonel Sander's chicken? I mean, general is a higher rank.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Kalas on Friday June 26 2020, @09:52AM
I fully expect so, just like how Admiral Nelson's rum tastes better than Captain Morgan's rum. And the admiral even sells his for half the cost, about $8 on the bottom shelf of your local liquor store. How magnanimous of him!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @08:55PM (1 child)
That wasn't chicken and the house across the street is missing another dog.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @10:02PM
Cat. Koreans eat dog.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Arik on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:41PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday June 25 2020, @08:51PM (9 children)
What if the US had educated workers, and US corporations were willing to pay a living wage.
Now, I know that sounds like crazy talk. But stick with me for a moment.
Don't think of it as "but we could get cheaper labor from CountryX". Instead, think of it as investing in making your nation great again. When people have money, the economy can do well, because people can spend money.
What if we had all the industries and expertise that we needed within our own borders?
What if government and industry worked together to make that happen. We already know we wouldn't want critical pieces of our military defense being dependent up on foreign parts. Now expand that thinking to not having any part of our economy being dependent upon foreign goods or services. I'm not saying be isolationist. I'm just saying that we should try to be independent.
Gee, what if we could be a lender nation instead of a debtor nation. Nah, nevermind. I'm thinking way too far out there.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday June 25 2020, @09:37PM (7 children)
The problem on the list is mining. Various minerals are in short supply, and depend on international trade.
OTOH, I think this should be worked around, and mining within the US be taxed rather than supported. That way the minerals will be there later when the need is greater. And if it doesn't exist within the US, then the government should stockpile it (**slowly**) against future need.
The problem is, to do this properly we need both long term planning, and to deal with corruption. And it's possible that the corruption is an even bigger problem than the lack of long term planning. (5 year plan nothing. We need a 50 or 100 year plan. But in broad brush strokes, and only governing actions of the government, not of individuals or companies.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by deimtee on Friday June 26 2020, @02:20AM (6 children)
The poster child for this is the rare earth metals, but the USA actually had mines for those. (In California I think) They were shut down because China produced them much more cheaply, by ignoring the pollution. They are not really rare just difficult to refine.
Lithium can be extracted from sea-water for about twice the current market price and that supply is effectively unlimited.
It would be expensive, but I wonder if a viable combined facility could be built to de-salinate sea-water for domestic/agricultural use, and to extract ALL the metals from the remaining brine.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday June 26 2020, @03:23AM (5 children)
Possibly after heating the water while cooling a nuclear power plant...though that would be tricky, as sea water is corrosive, and you also don't want to expose it directly to much radiation.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 27 2020, @12:18AM
Pfffft. Really?? You get lithium from heating sea water using nuclear power, blah blah. I get -my- lithium from CVS.
(Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Sunday June 28 2020, @06:35PM (3 children)
Gee ... how do nuclear subs work again?
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday June 28 2020, @08:26PM (2 children)
Nuclear subs are highly specialized, and use approaches that you wouldn't want to attempt on land. They also have extremely cost insensitive components and manufacturing. There are a few other reasons why that's not a good argument about it being difficult...which doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea, just that you want to approach it differently.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Saturday July 11 2020, @06:51PM (1 child)
You have no idea what you are talking about. You just think nuclear powered navy ships are 'crazy complicated' and 'totally different' from the nuclear power plants built in the '70s based on the navy nuclear powered ships.
Your knee-jerk reaction is ... utterly wrong.
And my point was that there is absolutely nothing special about using heat to distill water that is then used in the heat exchange system to drive a turbine. The only trivial difference here is that you want an excessive amount of sea water distillation in comparison to subs which spend a lot of effort on steam re-capture.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday July 11 2020, @07:54PM
The navy ships were run under a tight command structure that ensured maintenance was a very high priority. The same design wouldn't work at all well with a loose command structure and maintenance often a deferred expense. For that you want something with a lot better "fail-safe" design. Also, at sea there is always plenty of sea water to act as a heat transfer medium. On land this is a lot less true, though I admit sometimes you want to run subs at low power to minimize chance of detection.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @09:50PM
An imported CEO, or just a properly motivated one, can do the thing one Stephen Elop did to Nokia, with total impunity. To prevent it, country needs to adopt certain practices similar to, well, China - i.e. "nonfree", "racist", and other bad labels. There will be no shortage of properly motivated journalists and other influencers to scream about total fascist evil of it. To prevent it, country needs to adopt certain practices similar to, well, China... or, alternately, wean the populace off the media teat and promote use of brains for thinking.
Fat chance of anybody attempting that latter, after decades of effort spent doing exactly the reverse.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Thursday June 25 2020, @10:24PM (5 children)
Anyone can make a list. What's the actual evidence?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @12:00AM (3 children)
Here you go, this situation was actually worse in the past:
http://congressionalresearch.com/98-197/document.php?study=chinas+military-owned+businesses [congressionalresearch.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday June 26 2020, @01:58PM (1 child)
So yes, the article you cited stipulates there are "defense companies" owned by the PLA. You noted it is old, and I agree that a newer source is probably required.
However, the article you cite states nothing about Huawei. So, more pressingly, I'll ask where is the proof of such ownership?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:20PM
That's classified, maggot. Surrender your Hawuei and Xiaomi devices immediately.
(Score: 2) by Tokolosh on Friday June 26 2020, @04:37PM
Saying it does not make it so. Even if the alleged ties are true, does not mean that the companies are nefarious. I have yet to see any hard evidence that Huawei has been a bad actor in the West, or that it intends to be. OTOH, I can mention some with proven malfeasance - AT&T, Cisco, IBM, Amazon...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @02:33PM
Forget the evidence! MAGA!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2020, @11:08PM (1 child)
What happened to the other 2 controlled businesses?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26 2020, @12:10AM
Trump bought them... he got the greatest deal ever.