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posted by hubie on Wednesday November 16, @08:20PM   Printer-friendly
from the let's-sort-this-all-out dept.

Poland Missile: False Alarm

Ukraine war: Russia denies responsibility for Poland blast

US President Joe Biden has said it is "unlikely" that a missile that killed two people in Poland on Tuesday was fired from Russia.

Russia has denied it was to blame for the missile that landed in Przewodow, on the Ukrainian border.

Poland said it was Russian-made, but US officials said initial findings indicated it was fired by Ukrainian air defences.

More than 90 Russian missiles were fired at Ukraine on Tuesday, Kyiv said.

Although the military said 77 were shot down, some of the missiles hit Lviv, not far from Ukraine's western border with Poland.

During the Russian attacks, two Polish workers were killed in a blast at a farm building in Przewodow, 6km (4 miles) from the border.

 
Earlier reported story:

Br(e)aking: Russian missiles strike Poland, kill two

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia pounded Ukraine's energy facilities Tuesday with its biggest barrage of missiles yet, striking targets across the country and causing widespread blackouts, and a U.S. official said missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, where two people were killed.

A defiant Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskyy shook his fist and declared: "We will survive everything."

Polish government spokesman Piotr Mueller did not immediately confirm the information from a senior U.S. intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the situation. But Mueller said top leaders were holding an emergency meeting due to a "crisis situation."

Polish media reported that two people died Tuesday afternoon after a projectile struck an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a Polish village near the border with Ukraine.

Neighboring Moldova was also affected. It reported massive power outages after the strikes knocked out a key power line that supplies the small nation, an official said.

I bet the reaction will be "Mmrrr-hhhhh... not enough/too soon for Article 5".


[Title updated to reflect new information. Content NOT changed as it is quoting what was said at the time. It is the middle of the night for me and I will update the content tomorrow. 17-04:12 Nov 2022 - JR]

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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 16, @08:34PM (2 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 16, @08:34PM (#1280084)

    I would imagine Putin is not pleased, although his public stance will be more one of calculated posturing than any genuine reactions.

    Shtuff happens, especially when you turn loose a bunch of conscripts with toys that go boom.

    --
    Україна досі не є частиною Росії. https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/878601.html Слава Україні 🌻
    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday November 16, @10:22PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16, @10:22PM (#1280106) Journal

      Some of the military around Putin may be even less pleased than Putin is.

      Putin is most likely thinking about his own personal survival at this point.

      Military leaders may have a larger and longer term view.

      --
      Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 16, @11:01PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16, @11:01PM (#1280117) Homepage Journal

        Military leaders may have a larger and longer term view.

        Probably, some number of them do have a larger, and longer term view. I wouldn't attribute such views to military leaders, en masse. Among the good leaders, the mediocre leaders, and the good-for-shit leaders, there are a lot of them considering their own personal survival, and how they might take advantage of the situation.

        I'll remind people that the military is political in nature, and the higher you get in the ranks, the more political it is. Never assume that an officer is genuinely officer material, ready to lead troops at the front.

        --
        Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday November 16, @09:08PM (6 children)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Wednesday November 16, @09:08PM (#1280092)

    According to a White House statement [whitehouse.gov] the ordinance was Ukranian, not Russian, but it's still Russia's fault.

    Statement by National Security Council Spokesperson Adrienne Watson We have full confidence in the Polish government’s investigation of the explosion near their border with Ukraine, and we commend them for the professional and deliberate manner in which they are conducting it. We will not get ahead of their work and remain in close touch with our Polish counterparts, as we are still gathering information. We have seen nothing that contradicts President Duda’s preliminary assessment that this explosion was most likely the result of a Ukrainian air defense missile that unfortunately landed in Poland. We will continue to assess and share any new information transparently as it becomes available. We will also continue to stay in close touch with the Ukrainians regarding any information they have to fill out the picture.

    That said, whatever the final conclusions may be, it is clear that the party ultimately responsible for this tragic incident is Russia, which launched a barrage of missiles on Ukraine specifically intended to target civilian infrastructure. Ukraine had — and has — every right to defend itself.

    We again express our solidarity with the people of Ukraine and our condolences for the losses they suffered in these barbaric airstrikes. We know that millions more Ukrainians remain without power, water and basic necessities as a result. Our thoughts and prayers go out again to the loved ones of the two Polish citizens tragically killed.

    • (Score: 2, Troll) by legont on Thursday November 17, @12:26AM (5 children)

      by legont (4179) on Thursday November 17, @12:26AM (#1280130)

      Could somebody rename the title and update the text?

      Specifically, "Two Ukranian missiles hit Nato's country Poland and killed two civilians"

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @02:38AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @02:38AM (#1280148)

        Привет товарищ, ты из какой части славной советской родины?

      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Thursday November 17, @03:22AM

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 17, @03:22AM (#1280151) Journal

        It has been changed but it is taking ages to update on the front page.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Thursday November 17, @01:46PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 17, @01:46PM (#1280193) Journal

        Specifically, "Two Ukranian missiles hit Nato's country Poland and killed two civilians"

        Indeed, we need to be sensitive to Russia's propaganda needs.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Opportunist on Thursday November 17, @04:05PM (1 child)

        by Opportunist (5545) on Thursday November 17, @04:05PM (#1280215)

        How about "Ukraine shoots down Russian missile that flew in across NATO country Poland, debris kill two"?

        • (Score: 2) by legont on Saturday December 03, @06:07AM

          by legont (4179) on Saturday December 03, @06:07AM (#1280991)

          There were no Russian missile even according to Biden's admin.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
  • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday November 16, @09:12PM (1 child)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday November 16, @09:12PM (#1280093)

    If Putie is actually telling the truth for once, my bet would be that those separatist twerps he's been supplying were given some Russian missiles, saw the recent Ukrainian success in Kherson, decided they were next on the list, and fired the missiles at Poland because...ummm...I guess a general WWIII is better than the Donbass getting forcibly reintegrated while everybody else looks on from the sidelines?

    I don't think anyone will say that rebels in the general case use cautious, clean tactics.

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday November 17, @08:44PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday November 17, @08:44PM (#1280244) Homepage Journal

      Regardless of who fired it, Ukraine wants it to be the Russians because they want NATO involved, and NATO wants it to be Ukrainian so they DON'T get involved.

      --
      Older than dirt? Kid, I was a BETA TESTER for dirt! We never did get all the bugs out.
  • (Score: 3, Redundant) by looorg on Wednesday November 16, @09:17PM (18 children)

    by looorg (578) on Wednesday November 16, @09:17PM (#1280094)

    The story has been changing all day long. First it was Russia attacking Poland, by accident we assume since they are not suicidal and want to kick off WWIII. Russia denies responsibility for this attack. Later during the afternoon it somehow became it was Ukraine that did it, with some old stock or conquered Russian (built) missile or air-defense piece. Ukraine denies responsibility for this, or that it even happened. Claiming that no matter what happened or how it happened the blame is on Russia. So I guess all we know so far is that a possible Russian made missile appeared out of nowhere and struck a village in Poland and killed a couple of farmers. Clearly it didn't have a good navigation system whoever made it or fired it. Waiting for it now to develop into that it was some high-tech air-defense piece someone in western Europe gave/lent to the Ukraine but there was some translation error in the manual or just bad training that is to blame. So the west by accident attacked itself by proxy. Nothing to see here. It's war after all.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 16, @09:54PM (3 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 16, @09:54PM (#1280098)

      In my mind, the most likely scenario is that: whatever "side" fired it, something in the heat of battle caused it to end up away from its intended target. Whether that target was an incoming Russian missile, a Ukrainian power station, or whatever. Any number of things can send a missile off course: electronic interference, physical damage/redirection by anti-missile explosions and similar, under-trained or un-disciplined troops firing the weapon carelessly, defective guidance system of a "liberated" weapon, etc. etc.

      --
      Україна досі не є частиною Росії. https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/878601.html Слава Україні 🌻
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by RS3 on Wednesday November 16, @10:39PM (2 children)

        by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday November 16, @10:39PM (#1280113)

        All of the above, and also the scenario could happen where it's an anti-missile (defense) missile and the two collide over and fall on populated areas.

        My hunch is this case was a defense missile that didn't find a target and just ended up somewhere that it killed 2 people. Maybe those kinds of missiles should self-destruct if they run out of fuel, or are otherwise disabled, but still up high?

        All I know is it wouldn't have happened if Putin would mind his own business and stay within his own borders.

        --
        Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
        • (Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Thursday November 17, @05:01AM (1 child)

          by Mr Big in the Pants (4956) on Thursday November 17, @05:01AM (#1280161)

          "Maybe those kinds of missiles should self-destruct if they run out of fuel, or are otherwise disabled, but still up high?"

          They do....
          Why do you think Ukraine wants to see the proof?

          Timeline I have seen so far:
          Poland: It is russian missile.
          US: Hey Poland, let's talk
          Poland: It was Ukrainian missile

          I am no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence needs to be presented either way.

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 18, @01:01AM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 18, @01:01AM (#1280279)

            Oh, but hey, we have the highest confidence in the Polish investigation, they're doing a great job. 👍

            --
            Україна досі не є частиною Росії. https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/878601.html Слава Україні 🌻
    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday November 16, @10:27PM (3 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16, @10:27PM (#1280110) Journal

      The story has been changing all day long.

      The fog of war.

      --
      Scissors come in consumer packaging that cannot be opened without scissors.
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16, @10:37PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16, @10:37PM (#1280112)

        The lies of war!

      • (Score: 2) by SomeRandomGeek on Wednesday November 16, @10:56PM (1 child)

        by SomeRandomGeek (856) on Wednesday November 16, @10:56PM (#1280115)

        If they were so inclined, the Polish government could provide the world with detailed photographic evidence of the incident. I'm sure there would be enough evidence to identify the model of missile, and there are probably even some serial numbers to be found. And if we knew what kind of missile it was, we would probably know whether it was being used for air defense or ground attack. I say probably because Russia has been observed using their SA-300 surface to air missiles for ground attack recently.

        • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 16, @11:10PM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16, @11:10PM (#1280121) Homepage Journal

          I read an article earlier today that said it was probably an old Russian air defense missile. It sorta leaned toward the same kind of Buc missile that took down the airliner a few years ago. It went on to tell how a lot of weapons, especially Russian weapons, have been "repurposed" since the war started.

          Of course that article wasn't authoritative, it may be just as much BS as all the articles we're still reading.

          --
          Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
    • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16, @10:45PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16, @10:45PM (#1280114)

      It's war after all.

      Here it's information warfare. Note the Headline still states: "Russian Missiles Strike Poland..." Yellow "journalism" still thrives

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday November 16, @11:24PM (1 child)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday November 16, @11:24PM (#1280122) Journal

        Would changing it to "Alleged Russian-made" make you feel better?

        https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/world/europe/poland-ukraine-russia-nato.html [nytimes.com]

        Poland said early Wednesday that an explosion that killed two people at a grain-processing plant near the Ukrainian border had “most likely” been caused by a Russian-made missile, raising the prospect that the NATO alliance would be drawn more directly into the war in Ukraine.

        [...] The Polish Foreign Ministry said in a statement that the missile that landed the day before had been Russian-made, but President Andrzej Duda was not as definitive, telling reporters, “It was most likely a Russian-made missile, but this is all still under investigation at the moment.”

        He added, “We do not have any conclusive evidence at the moment as to who launched this missile.” Both the Ukrainian and Russian armies employ Soviet-era armaments.

        I haven't followed the story since I subbed my half, so feel free to add something newer.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16, @11:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16, @11:48PM (#1280125)

          Please, stop the charade. The headline says "Russian missile...", not Russian made missile. The intention is more than obvious.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @04:09AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @04:09AM (#1280153)

        Here it's information warfare.

        Troll

        ... via moderation. We're up to our ears in bullshit

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @09:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @09:48PM (#1280254)

          Another downmod for telling the truth.

          Very disappointing to see the war mongers prevail again...

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 16, @11:06PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16, @11:06PM (#1280120) Homepage Journal

      some high-tech air-defense piece someone in western Europe gave/lent to the Ukraine but there was some translation error in the manual or just bad training that is to blame.

      There's a great deal of sick, twisted humor hiding in that simple statement. In years to come, Ukraine could be the butt of a million jokes about bombing your benefactors, or almost-allies. Maybe even allies, eventually. The stupid jokes about buying French guns, only surrendered once, come to mind here.

      --
      Don’t confuse the news with the truth.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @05:55AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17, @05:55AM (#1280165)

      Remember that media in Poland are in fact a first-class communist-grade propaganda since at least 2015, for example I totally stopped turning the tv on the news when they made it politically dependent. So the first day after the "attack" they simultaneously spoke that nothing is confirmed and displayed a big text "RUSSIAN ATTACK ON POLAND" at the bottom. Now they are distracting people from the thing by using political opposition as always.
      Ukraine can play it well, very well, and gain more supporters in the west. Now they start to go about it very badly. As in Poland there is a general conspiracy theory that Ukrainian intelligence holds some compromising info about Polish politicians, they may also play it very badly and Polish media can lie. Something like this accident when Ukrainian rocket fell on the city because Ukraine's army with ammunition shortages literally shot whatever they had, including soviet rockets not inspected for decades - while it was known from the beginning that it was Ukraine Army's accident, our media still lied that the rocket was Russian and it somehow teleported on crash site.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 17, @01:53PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 17, @01:53PM (#1280195) Journal

        As in Poland there is a general conspiracy theory that Ukrainian intelligence holds some compromising info about Polish politicians, they may also play it very badly and Polish media can lie.

        Sure those dastardly Ukrainians do. So why doesn't the even better Russian intelligence hold even more of that compromising information than Ukraine? I think it should be obvious here that Poland remembers the Soviets: things like forty years of oppression and Katyn Forest. They won't let a second Soviet Union take them without a fight.

    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday November 17, @09:03AM (1 child)

      by isostatic (365) on Thursday November 17, @09:03AM (#1280176) Journal

      So I guess all we know so far is that a possible Russian made missile appeared out of nowhere and struck a village in Poland

      Plot twist, it was MH370

      • (Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday November 17, @11:53AM

        by looorg (578) on Thursday November 17, @11:53AM (#1280183)

        So I guess all we know so far is that a possible Russian made missile appeared out of nowhere and struck a village in Poland

        Plot twist, it was MH370

        ... in the Twilight Zone.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by HammeredGlass on Thursday November 17, @12:42AM (2 children)

    by HammeredGlass (12241) on Thursday November 17, @12:42AM (#1280131)

    You people are despicable.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by isostatic on Thursday November 17, @08:59AM

      by isostatic (365) on Thursday November 17, @08:59AM (#1280175) Journal

      Really Poland should invoke article 5 and NATO should invade and occupy the entire of Ukraine in retaliation (which would of course mean Russia has to leave)

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday November 17, @01:58PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 17, @01:58PM (#1280197) Journal

      You people are despicable.

      When you can whine about mild media bias while simultaneously completely ignoring an invasion by genuine, real world Russian warmongers that has killed somewhere over 200k people [wikipedia.org] (if Wikipedia's estimates are accurate), you completely bankrupt your contempt. It is completely worthless to the rest of us.

      Do us a favor. Come up with a viewpoint on this that isn't completely immoral and irrational.

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