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posted by janrinok on Wednesday February 22 2023, @12:21PM   Printer-friendly

It's unclear if the two lawmakers know what messenger RNA is exactly:

Two Republican lawmakers in Idaho have introduced a bill that would make it a misdemeanor for anyone in the state to administer mRNA-based vaccines—namely the lifesaving and remarkably safe COVID-19 vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna. If passed as written, it would also preemptively ban the use of countless other mRNA vaccines that are now in development, such as shots for RSV, a variety of cancers, HIV, flu, Nipah virus, and cystic fibrosis, among others.

The bill is sponsored by Sen. Tammy Nichols of Middleton and Rep. Judy Boyle of Midvale, both staunch conservatives who say they stand for freedom and the right to life. But their bill, HB 154, proposes that "a person may not provide or administer a vaccine developed using messenger ribonucleic acid [mRNA] technology for use in an individual or any other mammal in this state." If passed into law, anyone administering lifesaving mRNA-based vaccines would be guilty of a misdemeanor, which could result in jail time and/or a fine.

While presenting the bill to the House Health & Welfare Committee last week, Nichols said their anti-mRNA stance stems from the fact that the COVID-19 vaccines were initially allowed under emergency use authorizations (EUAs) from the Food and Drug Administration, not the agency's full regulatory approval. "We have issues that this was fast-tracked," she told fellow lawmakers, according to reporting from local news outlet KXLY.com.

The EUAs for the two mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines were issued in December 2020, and the FDA has subsequently granted full approval to both (Pfizer-BioNTech's in August 2021 and Moderna's in January 2022). This was pointed out to Nichols in the hearing last week.

[...] There have been rare reports of adverse events, including blood clots and inflammation of the heart muscle and lining (myocarditis and pericarditis). However, these problems are very rare, and, in the case of myocarditis and pericarditis, they tend to be mild. Independent health experts who advise the FDA and CDC have consistently determined that the risk of developing these conditions does not outweigh the benefits of vaccination.

[...] With the massive success of mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines, expectations are high that the platform can be used to target a wide variety of other infectious and non-infectious diseases. Moderna, for instance, has a wide pipeline of mRNA-based vaccines in the works. Already this year, the company reported findings from a late-stage clinical trial indicating their mRNA-based vaccine against RSV (respiratory syncytial (sin-SISH-uhl) virus) was highly effective. RSV is a common respiratory virus that can be deadly to older adults and young children.

In Idaho, it's unclear if Nichols and Boyle's bill will make it through the committee and, further, into law. However, its introduction fits into a worrying trend by conservative lawmakers for attacking lifesaving vaccination and evidence-based medicine, generally.


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by SpockLogic on Wednesday February 22 2023, @01:09PM (6 children)

    by SpockLogic (2762) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @01:09PM (#1292993)

    The King Canute syndrome in all its regal glory.

    --
    Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:07PM (#1292997)

      Similarly covered in the Qur'an WRT Nimrod...

      [Prophet], have you not thought about the man who disputed with Abraham about his Lord, because God had given him power to rule? When Abraham said, ‘It is my Lord who gives life and death,’ he said, ‘I too give life and death.’ So Abraham said, ‘God brings the sun from the east; so bring it from the west.’ The disbeliever was dumbfounded: God does not guide those who do evil

      -Qur'an 2:258 (Haleem translation)

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by Thexalon on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:16PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:16PM (#1293000)

      The thing about King Canute was that he wasn't a moron, he used that to make the point to his lords that even as a king his power was limited by the forces of nature.

      But more to the point: What this bill is doing is requiring that doctors and pharmacists commit medical malpractice. Which means all the doctors left in Idaho are going to try to leave.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by tangomargarine on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:04PM (1 child)

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:04PM (#1293011)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide [wikipedia.org]

      I was familiar with the bit about king Xerxes whipping the tide because it wouldn't obey him, but not this one.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday February 22 2023, @09:17PM

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @09:17PM (#1293071)

        Thank you for the link.

        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday February 23 2023, @12:35AM (1 child)

      by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday February 23 2023, @12:35AM (#1293086)

      was that the guy with the horns and dead animal on his head, at J6 ?

      (might be thinking of someone else.)

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:24PM

        by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:24PM (#1293166) Homepage Journal

        This is just political grandstanding for the cult. [mcgrew.info] It has absolutely no chance of passing and they don't expect it to. It's theater taking advantage of their mentally challenged base.

        --
        mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
  • (Score: -1, Troll) by cykros on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:31PM (10 children)

    by cykros (989) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:31PM (#1293004)

    Remarkably safe may be an overstatement (.004% fatalities induced by a vaccine against a disease that is little more than a case of the flu to the healthy is still worth considering), but lifesaving is probably accurate. It is, after all, do NO harm, not do less harm than good. Weighing the risks and rewards here is for the patient, not the doctor, to decide.

    Banning mandates on it, absolutely, you've got my support.

    Banning it entirely?

    Sorry, you've entered the realm of the drug warrior, and the idea that you're talking about doing this motivated by a love of freedom is just frankly bizarre.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Opportunist on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:39PM

      by Opportunist (5545) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:39PM (#1293006)

      Aside of some anecdotic personal experience of a former Ironman participant that now suffers from long Covid and can't even get up a flight of stairs without needing some rest, it's not exactly "just a bit more than a flu" even for healthy people. At least I don't know any flu that has lasting effects for the majority of people who caught it.

      That aside, I do think people should have the right to choose whether they want to take medication, including vaccines, or not. If someone prefers horse deworming agents instead or as far as I'm concerned the aid of crystal healing, more power to them. But outlawing a medical practice that has been shown to have positive results is ... ridiculous.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:57PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:57PM (#1293008)

      Remarkably safe may be an overstatement (.004% fatalities induced by a vaccine against a disease that is little more than a case of the flu to the healthy is still worth considering), but lifesaving is probably accurate. It is, after all, do NO harm, not do less harm than good.

      By that metric, no vaccine would ever clear the bar. Even if it doesn't kill anybody, there will always be some people who have moderate-to-severe side effects afterwards.

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by jelizondo on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:26PM (1 child)

      by jelizondo (653) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:26PM (#1293018) Journal

      mRNA vaccines are not only used against COVID, they are in clinical trials [nature.com] (started pre-pandemic) for influenza, rabies, HIV and Zika.

      So in the future, they are banning not anti-COVID vaccines, but against many other viral infections.

      It reminds me of legislating pi [forbes.com] to be 3.2

      I think we are too stupíd to survive.

      • (Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Thursday February 23 2023, @12:39AM

        by TheGratefulNet (659) on Thursday February 23 2023, @12:39AM (#1293087)

        making pi exactly 3.2 can be done.

        but it makes the rest of the reals go totally irrational on us.

        can't be helped.

        --
        "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:43PM (1 child)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:43PM (#1293021) Journal

      Banning mandates on it, absolutely, you've got my support.

      You shouldn't be forced to be vaccinated. But if you are not, then you should stay home and not go out in public. You are a menace to public health.

      Schools have required vaccinations of all students since long before I was born.

      Back when America was great, we got the entire planet vaccinated against polio and wiped out a disease that if you survived it, would literally cripple you and put you in a wheelchair for life.

      --
      With modern TVs you don't have to worry about braking the yolk on the back of the picture tube.
      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday February 23 2023, @04:48AM

        by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday February 23 2023, @04:48AM (#1293102)

        Back when America was great, we got the entire planet vaccinated against polio and wiped out a disease that if you survived it, would literally cripple you and put you in a wheelchair for life.

        Er...no. Polio was *very nearly* wiped out, but there have been isolated outbreaks in parts of the world ever since.

        Following the widespread use of poliovirus vaccine in the mid-1950s, new cases of poliomyelitis declined dramatically in many industrialized countries. A global effort to eradicate polio - the Global Polio Eradication Initiative - began in 1988, led by the World Health Organization, UNICEF, and The Rotary Foundation.[90] Polio is one of only two diseases currently the subject of a global eradication program, the other being Guinea worm disease.[91] So far, the only diseases completely eradicated by humankind are smallpox, declared eradicated in 1980,[92][93] and rinderpest, declared eradicated in 2011.[94]

        These efforts have hugely reduced the number of cases; from an estimated 350,000 cases in 1988 to a low of 483 cases in 2001, after which it remained at a level of about 1,000–2000 cases per year for a number of years.[96][97]

        By 2015, polio was believed to remain naturally spreading in only two countries, Pakistan and Afghanistan,[98][99][100][101] although it continued to cause outbreaks in other nearby countries due to hidden or reestablished transmission.[102] Between 2016 and 2020 worldwide cases of wild polio (mostly in these countries) remained below 200 per year, with only 6 confirmed cases in 2021.[10]

        The Americas were declared polio-free in 1994.[116] The last known case was a boy in Peru in 1991.[117] The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends polio vaccination boosters for travelers and those who live in countries where the disease is endemic.[118]

        In July 2022, the US state of New York reported a polio case for the first time in almost a decade in the country. Health officials said the person, an unvaccinated young adult who had not recently travelled abroad, first showed symptoms a month earlier and eventually developed paralysis; this was subsequently attributed to a vaccine-derived strain of the virus.[119] In October, the CDC reported detection of vaccine-derived virus in wastewater samples collected from five New York counties.[120][121]

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio#Eradication [wikipedia.org]

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:48PM (#1293023)

      I'd agree that there's more than enough evidence that the Pfizer covid-19 mRNA vaccine does cause heart problems in some people. While the Astra Zeneca can cause blot clots.

      BUT based on the deaths covid-19 is not similar to a case of flu. At least not the usual seasonal flu. It's more like a case of pandemic flu - the sort that kills more people.

      If it were "just another flu" the florists wouldn't have been selling as many funeral flowers, nor would the mortuaries be as busy.

      If you can't even notice such obvious evidence, go keep your head in the sand.

      I personally knew a few people who died due to covid-19 in the past few years. In my entire life I don't personally know anyone who died of flu. So while covid-19 was not ebola level of deadly it was definitely more deadly than the usual flu.

      Also after most people in my country got vaccinated, the death rates went down by 2 magnitudes. So the vaccines work. And yes the Gov has to kinda deceive the people to imply that the vaccines are 100% safe otherwise too many stupid people won't take them and there'd be more people dead.

      The truth is there's no 100% safe. Even if you just poked a hole in 6 billion people and don't inject anything there'd probably be at least hundreds or thousands of people dead due to that. Some people actually faint when holes are poked in them, or after seeing needles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_syncope#Vasovagal [wikipedia.org]

    • (Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:51PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:51PM (#1293024) Journal

      It is, after all, do NO harm, not do less harm than good.

      The oncologist who administered my chemotherapy would disagree.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday February 22 2023, @09:26PM

      by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @09:26PM (#1293072)

      ... a disease that is little more than a case of the flu to the healthy ..."

      Says someone who didn't loose a "healthy" parent, spouse, child, best friend, etc. to COVID 19.

      Be thankful you were so lucky this time.

      --
      "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:32PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:32PM (#1293168) Homepage Journal

      Your ignorance is pitiful. That "little more than the flu" disease blinded one of my healthy 35 year old daughter's eyes, and she spent days in the hospital from it. Most of her eyesight returned. But OVER A MILLION AMERICANS died from it and it was the third leading cause of death for two years.

      Are you lost, little one? I'd link Truth Social for you but I don't know the URL and don't care to. I'm sure you know how to get to Fox.

      Some of you people really piss me off.

      --
      mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
  • (Score: -1, Troll) by pdfernhout on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:59PM (1 child)

    by pdfernhout (5984) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @02:59PM (#1293009) Homepage

    https://www.litcharts.com/lit/lies-my-teacher-told-me/chapter-13-what-is-the-result-of-teaching-history-like-this [litcharts.com]
    "Loewen suggests one reason that educated people are more likely to support government policy than uneducated people: they’ve been socialized to trust the institutions of their society—a process partly facilitated by history textbooks. After more than a decade of being taught to trust the United States government, some “educated” people will do so for the rest of their lives, shifting their beliefs to mirror their government’s policies. It’s surprising that education correlates negatively with opposition to the Vietnam War [in the early 1970s], because most Americans think that being educated means being tolerant and well-informed about the world. In reality, intolerant and dogmatic people are sometimes affluent and well-educated."

    That process extends even further into graduate and professional schools: http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ [tripod.com]
    "In this riveting book about the world of professional work, Jeff Schmidt demonstrates that the workplace is a battleground for the very identity of the individual, as is graduate school, where professionals are trained. He shows that professional work is inherently political, and that professionals are hired to subordinate their own vision and maintain strict "ideological discipline." ..."

    --
    The biggest challenge of the 21st century: the irony of technologies of abundance used by scarcity-minded people.
    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:35PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:35PM (#1293169) Homepage Journal

      After more than a decade of being taught to trust the United States government

      I see you have never attended college. Or are you simply trolling?

      --
      mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:01PM (9 children)

    by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:01PM (#1293010)

    The bill is sponsored by Sen. Tammy Nichols of Middleton and Rep. Judy Boyle of Midvale, both staunch conservatives who say they stand for freedom and the right to life. But their bill, HB 154, proposes that "a person may not provide or administer a vaccine developed using messenger ribonucleic acid [mRNA] technology for use in an individual or any other mammal in this state." If passed into law, anyone administering lifesaving mRNA-based vaccines would be guilty of a misdemeanor, which could result in jail time and/or a fine.

    Eager to see what mental gymnastics they use to justify this bull.

    While presenting the bill to the House Health & Welfare Committee last week, Nichols said their anti-mRNA stance stems from the fact that the COVID-19 vaccines were initially allowed under emergency use authorizations (EUAs) from the Food and Drug Administration, not the agency's full regulatory approval. "We have issues that this was fast-tracked," she told fellow lawmakers, according to reporting from local news outlet KXLY.com.

    Sure, I guess that's a logical reason to be cautious about it...but it's a reason to make sure the patient is informed, not a reason to take away *the choice* of the patient getting it entirely. "Freedom" my ass.

    Hypocritical Republicans using buzzwords like patriotism and liberty to justify things that are directly opposed to them again. That politicians can do this with a straight face...

    --
    "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:11PM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:11PM (#1293013)

      Legalize LSD.

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:19PM (1 child)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:19PM (#1293015)

        Sure, why not? Legalize it, regulate it...if it isn't already, include it under DUI. If you murder somebody while one it, murder is already illegal. Alcohol being legal while pot isn't is silly.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:41PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:41PM (#1293170) Homepage Journal

          Alcohol being legal while pot isn't is silly.

          Silly? Alcohol made a drinking buddy of mine homeless, I never saw weed do that. You can die from overdose on alcohol, it's called "alcohol poisoning." As Willie Nelson has pointed out, the only way reefer can kill you is if a 200 pound pale of it fell on your head.

          Quite a bit more extreme than "silly". Cheech and Chong are silly. The Marx Brothers are silly. Lives destroyed by a law based on lies is far from silly.

          --
          mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Wednesday February 22 2023, @09:55PM

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @09:55PM (#1293076)

        Legalize LSD.

        considering that studies have shown that LSD can help treat PTSD and some other mental health issues in addition to having effectively zero* deaths from overdose in the last 60 years I would support legalization efforts.

        Even more so if it was a comprehensive effort. Legalize it all and then put all the money wasted annually fighting an unwinnable "War on Drugs" into mental healthcare, social services, and research into possible uses for all the currently banned drugs.

        (*No confirmed deaths reported due to the actual toxicity of LSD. Deaths attributed to LSD usually had additional factors, like strangle holds used by LEA during arrests that resulted in comas and eventual death or possible other drugs that were not tested for.)

        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by helel on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:44PM (1 child)

      by helel (2949) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:44PM (#1293022)

      Banning medical treatment is kind of a mainstay of the republican platform. They always talk about "caution" and "choice" and "get another opinion" but for some reason every one of those leads them to the same conclusion: An outright ban.* It's almost like they just want to make people suffer and every reason they give is just an excuse come up with after the fact...

      * Ok ok, I'm being hyperbolic. They also like to raise prices on common medications so people just can't afford them.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:55PM (2 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @03:55PM (#1293027) Journal

      the COVID-19 vaccines were initially allowed under emergency use authorizations (EUAs) from the Food and Drug Administration, not the agency's full regulatory approval. "We have issues that this was fast-tracked," she told fellow lawmakers, according to reporting from local news outlet KXLY.com.

      And of course: The vaccines are fully approved now. [hopkinsmedicine.org] And we all know they are all fully aware of that fact.

      • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday February 23 2023, @02:50AM (1 child)

        by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday February 23 2023, @02:50AM (#1293092)

        Yeah, I noticed that when reading TFA (and it was in the summary...whoops!).

        Also:

        If passed into law, anyone administering lifesaving mRNA-based vaccines would be guilty of a misdemeanor, which could result in jail time and/or a fine.

        ...so as long as the treatment *isn't* intended to save their life, it's fine? Curious what logic they have for this as well...I'd say "maybe they don't want to accidentally ban something else useful that isn't a COVID vaccine", but clearly these guys are doing this for political reasons and don't give a fuck about actual human wellbeing.

        --
        "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
        • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday February 23 2023, @02:52AM

          by tangomargarine (667) on Thursday February 23 2023, @02:52AM (#1293093)

          ...Oh right, because if it's a palliative, that means more money for their friends in the pharmaceutical industry, where they can sell you a treatment for it for life rather than curing it. Silly me.

          --
          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Gaaark on Wednesday February 22 2023, @07:26PM (3 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Wednesday February 22 2023, @07:26PM (#1293064) Journal

    Now let's see THIS headline!

    Republican Bill in Idaho Would Make mRNA-Based Vaccination Gun Selling a Crime.

    Two Republican lawmakers in Idaho have introduced a bill that would make it a misdemeanor for anyone in the state to administer mRNA-based vaccines sell guns.

    Same fecking thing! People have been harmed and have died from those gun things, so......

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:49PM (2 children)

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Thursday February 23 2023, @08:49PM (#1293175) Homepage Journal

      We have that pesky Constitution. With the only right that says "WELL REGULATED" although everybody seems to ignore that part. No where else does the Constitution have that phrase.

      --
      mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday February 23 2023, @10:57PM (1 child)

        by Gaaark (41) on Thursday February 23 2023, @10:57PM (#1293189) Journal

        Doesn't it say you have the right to bear arms? Doesn't mean anyone has the right to sell them to you. Leave people with pitchforks and torches and you'll harm less people than with an AK47...

        "WELL REGULATED" by not being able to obtain a gun! Sounds good! ;)

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday February 24 2023, @03:41PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Friday February 24 2023, @03:41PM (#1293249) Homepage Journal

          NO, you can't outlaw guns, but you can regulate them. As in, GUN REGISTRATION, and I know that upsets the paranoid conspiracy theory believing, government-hating crowd, but WELL REGULATED almost demands it.

          You can constitutionally ban ownership, and unsupervised use, by minors. Or do you think a six year old should have the right to bear arms?

          It's already illegal to supply a firearm to a felon. They could easily imprison anyone who breaks those laws, but it never happens. The worst is a fine. Outlawing large magazines is perfectly constitutional and will save lives.

          Outlawing "assault rifles" won't do jack shit. Less than 3% of firearm deaths are caused by them, and suicide is a lot easier with a handgun.

          --
          mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
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