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posted by martyb on Friday June 09 2017, @01:42PM   Printer-friendly
from the reduce-REUSE-recycle dept.

Tesla holds a tight grip on its used vehicle market through its certified pre-owned program. As previously reported, it resulted in the Tesla Model S retaining its value better than gas-powered cars in its segment – losing only 28% after 50,000 miles, according to an Autolist report.

Unfortunately for people looking to get a cheap second-hand Tesla, it wasn't the easiest thing to find a good bargain... until now.

The automaker is now listing a lot of new Certified Pre-Owned Model S vehicles for less than $40,000.

While you could sometimes find a used Model S in the $40,000 price range from different resellers or directly from the owners, it was rare to find a used Tesla Model S for that price in Tesla's Certified Pre-Owned program.

Under the program, the vehicles receive a full inspection and a four-year, 50,000 miles limited warranty with 24 hour roadside assistance on top of the remaining years/mileage of their battery and drivetrain warranty.

But now Tesla is introducing a new version of the program for high mileage cars. They added dozens of them to their list and several are just over $30,000

Though one could argue it's just another auto company pushing its wares, there is the impact that having more Tesla cars on the road increases the incentives for building out more charging stations. With more stations, there is less range anxiety, so more people become willing to buy an electric car, and so the positive feedback loop continues. Those the actual numbers in this case are relatively small, consider that Tesla is on the cusp of rolling out the Model 3 in the near future, as well.


Original Submission

Related Stories

Tesla Burns More Cash, Fails to Meet Production Targets 16 comments

Auto production is hard:

Having racked up its first quarter of burning through more than $1 billion of cash in the three months ending in June, Tesla topped that with $1.4 billion of negative free cash flow in the third quarter. In the past two quarters, therefore, Tesla has burned through more cash than the previous six combined. More importantly, it has burned through roughly four out of every five of the $3.2 billion dollars it has raised since late March through selling new equity and convertible debt and its debut in the high-yield bond market.

Consequently, debt has soared. Even just using debt with recourse to the company, on a net basis it has almost tripled since the start of the year to $3.36 billion.This would matter less if the primary objective of sucking in most of that external funding -- mass production of the Model 3 -- was fast approaching. Instead, it has receded further.

When Musk first talked about production targets for the Model 3 in 2016, they implied Tesla would be producing roughly 3,800 to 7,600 a week in the second half of 2017. By July of this year, Musk was guiding toward production hitting about 5,000 a week by the end of December. I estimated at the time that this implied a second-half average of maybe 1,400 a week.

Now, Musk estimates production might hit 5,000 a week by the end of the first quarter of 2018. As for this year, it might be in "the thousands" by the time New Year's Eve rolls around. He refused to say what the current run rate was. But I would estimate Tesla will be lucky to produce 10,000 Model 3 vehicles in total this year, or an average of 400 a week for the second half -- roughly 5 to 10 percent of the original guidance. As for the earlier target of 10,000 a week in 2018 ...

Also at NYT and MarketWatch.

Previously: Tesla Adds Lots of Certified Pre-Owned Model S Vehicles for Under $40,000 with New Warranty
Time to Bash Tesla Model 3
Tesla Reportedly Teaming Up With AMD for Custom AI Chip
Tesla Fires Hundreds of Employees


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @01:56PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @01:56PM (#523059)

    Just sayin'.

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:16PM (#523135)

      Most likely so has every hotel room you've ever stayed in, do you bring a hazmat suit with you on your vacations?

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:51PM (#523149)

      So, if I buy one, I'll get some?

      Just askin'

  • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday June 09 2017, @01:57PM (6 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday June 09 2017, @01:57PM (#523060) Journal

    I don't track new car prices much, but over $30K always seemed pretty steep. I'm used to thinking of the engine as one of if not the most expensive piece in a car, which meant an electric ought to be significantly cheaper. But... I'm guessing a combustion engine is around $2K. Seems going electric won't bring down the price of a new car as much as I'd hoped.

    Can be sure that dealer's parts departments still wildly inflate the prices of replacement parts, so using their prices as a guide doesn't work too well.

    • (Score: 0, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @02:42PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @02:42PM (#523087)

      Tesla is a low-volume manufacturer; that increases costs.

      Moreover, an enormous amount of resources has been poured into research and development of the car, from the ground up. Something like a Tesla car doesn't just pop into existence when a few fratboys get together in their garage and decide to make one; it takes serious engineering, trial and error, and the establishment of entirely new flows of resources and manufacturing infrastructure—Guess what? Somebody has to pay for that.

      Get it, yet?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:52PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:52PM (#523150)

        Good thing there doesn't appear to be a violently imposed monopoly involved this time.

    • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @03:31PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @03:31PM (#523110)

      Tesla is a low-volume manufacturer; that increases costs.

      Moreover, an enormous amount of resources has been poured into research and development of the car, from the ground up. Something like a Tesla car doesn't just pop into existence when a few fratboys get together in their garage and decide to make one; it takes serious engineering, trial and error, and the establishment of entirely new flows of resources and manufacturing infrastructure—Guess what? Somebody has to pay for that.

      Get it, yet?

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Saturday June 10 2017, @05:34AM

        by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday June 10 2017, @05:34AM (#523399)
        Tesla is a low-volume manufacturer; that increases costs.

        Moreover, an enormous amount of resources has been poured into research and development of the car, from the ground up. Something like a Tesla car doesn't just pop into existence when a few fratboys get together in their garage and decide to make one; it takes serious engineering, trial and error, and the establishment of entirely new flows of resources and manufacturing infrastructure—Guess what? Somebody has to pay for that.

        Get it, yet?
    • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @05:27PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @05:27PM (#523160)

      Tesla is a low-volume manufacturer; that increases costs.

      Moreover, an enormous amount of resources has been poured into research and development of the car, from the ground up. Something like a Tesla car doesn't just pop into existence when a few fratboys get together in their garage and decide to make one; it takes serious engineering, trial and error, and the establishment of entirely new flows of resources and manufacturing infrastructure—Guess what? Somebody has to pay for that.

      Get it, yet?

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @02:03PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @02:03PM (#523062)

    Hmm. I just bought a used 2007 Ford Ranger pickup for $4,000 USD with 29,000 miles on it. I'm happy.

    • (Score: 2) by n1 on Friday June 09 2017, @02:32PM

      by n1 (993) on Friday June 09 2017, @02:32PM (#523077) Journal

      why do you hate the planet? only musk can save us, and you're trying to kill us!

    • (Score: 2) by nobu_the_bard on Friday June 09 2017, @02:48PM

      by nobu_the_bard (6373) on Friday June 09 2017, @02:48PM (#523093)

      Wow, nice deal!

    • (Score: 2) by deadstick on Friday June 09 2017, @03:01PM (3 children)

      by deadstick (5110) on Friday June 09 2017, @03:01PM (#523100)

      Besides, you can't roll coal in a Tesla.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @05:23PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @05:23PM (#523159)

        They dont make diesel rangers, so you cant in a ranger either.

        • (Score: 2) by Leebert on Friday June 09 2017, @07:05PM

          by Leebert (3511) on Friday June 09 2017, @07:05PM (#523215)

          They dont make diesel rangers, so you cant in a ranger either.

          They did (do?), just not in the United States. I rode in one in Haiti a few years back.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday June 09 2017, @06:27PM

        by bob_super (1357) on Friday June 09 2017, @06:27PM (#523194)

        Someone has to invent a weed or crack derivative named coal, sell it to greenies and blacks with the explicit instructions that you smoke it like a joint.

        I just want rednecks' tiny brains to explode when confronted with the idea that "rolling coal" was taken away by people they really don't want to be linked to.

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 09 2017, @05:32PM (1 child)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday June 09 2017, @05:32PM (#523166) Journal

      Hmm. I just bought a used 2007 Ford Ranger pickup for $4,000 USD with 29,000 miles on it. I'm happy.

      Kelly Blue Book says that vehicle, with the bare minimum features and in very good condition is worth $7-8k. I'll assume you just got a really good deal but will point out that $4k is not a representative price.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Saturday June 10 2017, @05:51AM

        by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday June 10 2017, @05:51AM (#523403)
        The AC, as any driver of an old Ford ranger, is someone with very limited intelligence.  He can transport a couch for you, perhaps load up some hay for cows, but mostly he needs it for his and his disgusting cow of a wife, since they are incredibly overweight.  He thinks he is making a counterpoint, but he is actually simply unable to grasp the meaning of a paragraph of text in the summary.  Which is of course that if you buy a Tesla and it retains its resale value, unlike his piece of crap white trash-mobile that loses all its value in 10 years.  I'm sure he paid $4k, and that his Ford is not anywhere to "very good condition," and that it smells like white trash and fatman sweat and seat-farts from BBQ and cheap beer.  More importantly, his fat belly won't fit in a Tesla.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Friday June 09 2017, @02:09PM (7 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 09 2017, @02:09PM (#523065) Journal

    It won't help Trump a bit with MAGA. Look

    1. first at all, it's about that little prick Elon, who left his position as a councillor for Trump. The result? Many of the states showed a finger (oh, God, a single one, not even two) to Trump and decided to go on their own with CO2 and other stupid things. It's a blow to Trump's authority, defiance of the leader
    2. affordable EV-es is bad for busuness; bad, believe me. Look, how can Trump get those jobs in coal mining, the ones his voters are still waiting? Not to mention the coal washers, the ones supposedly needed to clean that coal? How can one MAGAAA with EV-es?
    3. While more cars may mean a justification for spending in repairs for those roads and bridges, the reality iyou can;t use an EV to go places - their range is still limited for around big citties - not Trump's electorate
    4. EV means less oil dependence. How's gonna Trump justify wasting money in the one or two wars in the middle east? What's a poor honest prick of a president keep the military industrial complex running?

    See? Fuck technology, it's like a nasty smelling spill [soylentnews.org] for politics, ain't it?

    (grin)

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Friday June 09 2017, @03:59PM (5 children)

      by meustrus (4961) on Friday June 09 2017, @03:59PM (#523127)

      How's gonna Trump justify wasting money in the one or two wars in the middle east?

      That was going to be a tough sell anyway since the shale oil boom has made America a net oil producer again under Obama. but hey, there's always the good old standby reason for America to stick its military in the most dangerous part of the world: Israel.

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
      • (Score: 2) by NewNic on Friday June 09 2017, @05:47PM (4 children)

        by NewNic (6420) on Friday June 09 2017, @05:47PM (#523175) Journal

        the shale oil boom has made America a net oil producer

        Try again. That's only true for refined petroleum products. The USA is still a net energy importer.

        --
        lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 09 2017, @11:46PM (3 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 09 2017, @11:46PM (#523333) Journal

          the shale oil boom has made America a net oil producer

          Try again. That's only true for refined petroleum products. The USA is still a net energy importer.

          Everything that gets burned in an engine, even the crap that container ships burn, is refined. And I notice here the introduction of the word, "energy". British Columbia electricity isn't going to spur wars in the Middle East, let us note.

          • (Score: 2) by NewNic on Saturday June 10 2017, @12:18AM (2 children)

            by NewNic (6420) on Saturday June 10 2017, @12:18AM (#523336) Journal

            U.S. Net Imports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels per Day) [eia.gov]

            Look at the bottom of the table for the current year:
            5,007 3,610 4,174

            Or how about this page:
            How much petroleum does the United States import and export? [eia.gov]

            In 2016, the United States imported approximately 10.1 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum from about 70 countries. Petroleum includes crude oil, natural gas plant liquids, liquefied refinery gases, refined petroleum products such as gasoline and diesel fuel, and biofuels including ethanol and biodiesel. About 78% of gross petroleum imports were crude oil.

            In 2016, the United States exported about 5.2 MMb/d of petroleum to 101 countries. Most of the exports were petroleum products. The resulting net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum were about 4.9 MMb/d.

            The USA is a net importer of oil.

            You could have looked this up, it would have taken but a minute. But you like to put your own faulty knowledge before actual facts, so you didn't bother, because it might break your world view. It's childish.

            As for the fact that a lot of the imports are from British Columbia, it's a worldwide market. Every barrel that Canada exports to the USA is a barrel of oil that cannot be sold to a third country, such as China.

            --
            lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday June 10 2017, @01:16AM (1 child)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday June 10 2017, @01:16AM (#523343) Journal
              And yet we see more than a halving in the net importing of oil from 2006 to 2017. I grant that the earlier poster was incorrect in their assertion of the US being a net exporter, but the importing of oil goes from well over half the oil consumed in the US to the present quarter. That's a huge drop in the US's dependence on imported oil.
              • (Score: 2) by NewNic on Saturday June 10 2017, @03:18AM

                by NewNic (6420) on Saturday June 10 2017, @03:18AM (#523366) Journal

                It is a huge drop, and it is IMHO, very good for the USA.

                Russia has a huge sovereign wealth fund and has been able to build up its military. However, with low oil prices, due in part to the fact that the USA is importing much less oil, both Saudi Arabia and Russia have been spending through these funds. Putin won't be able to keep his people happy if he doesn't have oil revenues to spend. Similarly, it's not clear to me that Saudi Arabia will actually have enough cash to buy all that military hardware that it is supposed to buy in the recently announced deal.

                --
                lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @04:10PM (#523134)
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @03:54PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @03:54PM (#523119)

    > Tesla holds a tight grip on its used vehicle market

    I'd agree with "Tesla has the largest stock of used Model S available from one source", but it's hardly a tight grip. Here is a used car site, http://www.getauto.com/for-sale/tesla-model_s-12?fromyear=1998&toyear=2018 [getauto.com] that lists 129 Model S Teslas for sale at dealers all over the country. There are more, from private sellers on eBay and many other ways to find used Teslas for sale.

    While poking around on various car sites, it looked like the lower cost used cars direct from Tesla were being snapped up quickly. Some guessed that the price was close enough to the upcoming Model 3 price that some people were buying a used S instead of waiting for a 3. In fact Tesla even seemed to be pushing this line of reasoning. I'd call this normal sales behavior, a sale now of any sort is (almost) always better than the hope of a sale in the future.

    A second part of TFA that wasn't in the summary is the used prices of the other popular electric cars -- Leaf, BMW i3 and plug-in Chevy Volt. All of these are depreciating *much* faster than gas engine cars of the same general size.

    This leads me to a couple of questions -- what will the Model 3 (and Chevy Bolt) do to *used* prices for electric cars? We can probably already predict that it will poke a hole in new sales of the Leaf, unless Nissan can lower the cost dramatically.

    And, what will be the ramifications if somehow Tesla falls from it's current status as Wall Street sweetheart? For example, if the Model 3 production is delayed or has other problems. Along with that big market valuation, comes the fact that many eyes are watching Tesla at this time...

    • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 09 2017, @05:27PM

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 09 2017, @05:27PM (#523161) Journal

      While poking around on various car sites, it looked like the lower cost used cars direct from Tesla were being snapped up quickly. Some guessed that the price was close enough to the upcoming Model 3 price that some people were buying a used S instead of waiting for a 3. In fact Tesla even seemed to be pushing this line of reasoning. I'd call this normal sales behavior, a sale now of any sort is (almost) always better than the hope of a sale in the future.

      A second part of TFA that wasn't in the summary is the used prices of the other popular electric cars -- Leaf, BMW i3 and plug-in Chevy Volt. All of these are depreciating *much* faster than gas engine cars of the same general size.

      This leads me to a couple of questions -- what will the Model 3 (and Chevy Bolt) do to *used* prices for electric cars? We can probably already predict that it will poke a hole in new sales of the Leaf, unless Nissan can lower the cost dramatically.

      When the Model S came out a lot of people said their price point was closer to $40K. These certified pre-owned cars are at that price point, with not that much mileage. So essentially it's getting the larger, faster Model S for the cost of the Model 3 which hasn't been delivered yet. Another consideration is that these used Model S'es can use the supercharger network for free--the Model 3's can't.

      Having a robust secondary market for EVs is a great way to get greater adoption, though. People don't really think twice about buying used ICEs, so used EVs shouldn't be that big a deal.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
  • (Score: 1) by ghost on Friday June 09 2017, @05:38PM

    by ghost (4467) on Friday June 09 2017, @05:38PM (#523168) Journal
    It's a combination of old spice, coriander, patchouli and copious amounts of bullshit. straight from Elon's anal glands.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @05:52PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 09 2017, @05:52PM (#523177)

    So the cars have been hacked even before delivery? :-)

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