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posted by mrpg on Friday March 02 2018, @01:33AM   Printer-friendly
from the get-help-now dept.

Research shows that longstanding depression alters the brain -- treatment may require different approaches depending on not just the severity of the depression but also on its longevity:

Is clinical depression always the same illness, or does it change over time?

New brain imaging research from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) shows that the brain alters after years of persistent depression, suggesting the need to change how we think about depression as it progresses.

The study, led by senior author Dr. Jeff Meyer of CAMH's Campbell Family Mental Health Research Institute, is published in The Lancet Psychiatry.

The research shows that people with longer periods of untreated depression, lasting more than a decade, had significantly more brain inflammation compared to those who had less than 10 years of untreated depression. In an earlier study, Dr. Meyer's team discovered the first definitive evidence of inflammation in the brain in clinical depression.

This study provides the first biological evidence for large brain changes in long-lasting depression, suggesting that it is a different stage of illness that needs different therapeutics - the same perspective taken for early and later stages of Alzheimer's disease, he says.

"Greater inflammation in the brain is a common response with degenerative brain diseases as they progress, such as with Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson´s disease," says Dr. Meyer, who also holds Canada Research Chair in the Neurochemistry of Major Depression. While depression is not considered a degenerative brain disease, the change in inflammation shows that, for those in whom depression persists, it may be progressive and not a static condition.

Over years, depression changes the brain, new study shows
Depression Can Actually Leave Long-Term Changes in Your Brain, Study Shows

More information: Elaine Setiawan et al, Association of translocator protein total distribution volume with duration of untreated major depressive disorder: a cross-sectional study, The Lancet Psychiatry (2018). DOI: 10.1016/S2215-0366(18)30048-8


Original Submission

Related Stories

Ketamine Shows Promise as a Fast-Acting Treatment for Depression 14 comments

Ketamine could become an approved treatment for depression in the UK soon:

Ketamine has 'fast-acting benefits' for depression

Ketamine has "shown promise" in the rapid treatment of major depression and suicidal thoughts, a US study says. Ketamine has a reputation as a party drug but is licensed as an anaesthetic. The study found use of the drug via a nasal spray led to "significant" improvements in depressive symptoms in the first 24 hours. The Royal College of Psychiatrists said it was a "significant" study that brought the drug "a step closer to being prescribed on the NHS".

The report by researchers from Janssen Research and Development, a Johnson and Johnson company, and Yale School of Medicine, is the first study into ketamine as a treatment for depression that has been done by a drug company.

[...] The study found those using esketamine had a much greater improvement in depression symptoms at all points over the first four weeks of treatment. However, at 25 days the effects had levelled out. The study's authors suggest it could offer an effective rapid treatment for people severely depressed and at imminent risk of suicide and could help in the initial stages of treatment, as most anti-depressants take four to six weeks to become fully effective.

Also at Medical Daily.

Efficacy and Safety of Intranasal Esketamine for the Rapid Reduction of Symptoms of Depression and Suicidality in Patients at Imminent Risk for Suicide: Results of a Double-Blind, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Study (DOI: 10.1176/appi.ajp.2018.17060720) (DX)

Can a Framework Be Established for the Safe Use of Ketamine? (DOI: 10.1176/appi.ajp.2018.18030290) (DX)

Related: FDA Designates MDMA as a "Breakthrough Therapy" for PTSD; Approves Phase 3 Trials
Study Suggests Psilocybin "Resets" the Brains of Depressed People
Ketamine Reduces Suicidal Thoughts in Depressed Patients
Studies Identify How Ketamine Can Reverse Symptoms of Depression
Over Years, Depression Changes the Brain, new Study Shows


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @02:03AM (18 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @02:03AM (#646160)

    I was depressed in high school, actually from 7th grade until a couple years into college. I nearly jumped in front of a train. Brain inflammation may explain why learning went from trivial to hard as I reached senior year.

    I was given pills. They were useless.

    It would have been easy for a psychologist to write me a prescription that would actually cure my depression, but getting the prescription filled at the pharmacy would be difficult and I doubt my insurance would have covered it. The prescription would have been something like "one 60 kg girlfriend, to be used as needed for symptoms".

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @02:49AM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @02:49AM (#646173)

      What prescription cures (as opposed to treats) depression?

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @04:36AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @04:36AM (#646208)

        A gun to the head.

        Since when has big pharma actually created a cure for something they could instead treat and charge for indefinably?

        If big pharma were to just today start developing a method to deal with a broken leg, it would consist only of useless wallet-draining pain killers, and just enough medicine to keep the patient alive while the bone sticks out of their leg for the rest of their life.

        • (Score: 2) by Weasley on Friday March 02 2018, @06:49AM

          by Weasley (6421) on Friday March 02 2018, @06:49AM (#646241)

          They found a cure for hepatitis c. You only have to give them your house in order to be treated.

        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 02 2018, @07:32PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday March 02 2018, @07:32PM (#646572) Journal

          If it's so easy why don't you get out there and fix some brains?

      • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:27AM (1 child)

        by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:27AM (#646280) Homepage Journal

        RLY.

        The problem is that when I am depressed, the absolute last thing I want to do is go out and ride fifty miles on my bike.

        I often go touring on my bike - but only when I'm not depressed.

        --
        Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @10:55AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @10:55AM (#646313)

          Didn't he already mention The Horizontal Bop?

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Friday March 02 2018, @03:52AM

      by Sulla (5173) on Friday March 02 2018, @03:52AM (#646199) Journal

      You could have self treated with /r9k/ applied liberally, but all it does is turn sadness to rage.

      --
      Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @04:44AM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @04:44AM (#646210)

      "one 60 kg girlfriend, to be used as needed for symptoms".

      This site has gotten so bad I can't tell for sure if this is supposed to be one of those lengthy AC spam posts that always ends with bloody rape. :P

      Bleach. My brain has a craving for bleach.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @06:08AM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @06:08AM (#646228)

        I'm not into blood at all. I couldn't actually go through with a rape; the reality would be horrible I'm sure.

        I had this: 1.5 years serious depression, 0.5 years hope, 3.0 years serious depression, 1.0 year of relief again, 2.0 years serious depression, 0.5 years hope, 0.5 years serious depression, cured

        The total comes to 7 years of horrible badness, plus 2 years of a weak and fragile sort of hope and/or putting things aside. (switching to a new school would typically generate a bit of hope, but I think that constant switching would wear out the effect)

        The cure was damn obvious. My depression had a legit cause. I told my shrink exactly what the problem was, so he had no excuse for his failure to prescribe a girlfriend.

        It's like when your kid dies and you get depressed. There is a legit cause and an obvious cure. Simply prescribe a resurrection.

        • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:26AM (5 children)

          by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:26AM (#646278) Homepage Journal

          At our first session she asked why I sought her help.

          "I am completely unable to get a date."

          "I bet you'd like to get laid!" she replied.

          When I terminated therapy thirteen years later it was because I was moving to Newfoundland to get married.

          Best sixty grand I ever spent.

          --
          Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @03:39PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @03:39PM (#646422)

            so... did she get you laid?

            I have to admit, I could probably dispense this advice to other needy men for less money than $60k.

            Although if she had a full service operation, there are some costs I couldn't charge due to being unable to provide that service without engaging in a 3rd party relationship with other trusted service providers that may or may not be "in-network". Cash is acceptable in the event that this is something anyone wants to pursue; I am told the no cameras rule is strict, but the no kissing can be negotiated based on the care package subscribed to.

          • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Friday March 02 2018, @04:44PM (2 children)

            by Freeman (732) on Friday March 02 2018, @04:44PM (#646464) Journal

            $60k for the marriage or $60k for the therapist? Seems like, it took an awfully long time for that therapist to get you laid, if that's all that was wrong.

            Seriously though, having the wrong girlfriend is 100% worse than not having a girlfriend. I'm one of those crazy people that only ever dated their wife and have been happily married for 10+ years. It's fine to have girl friends, but it's best to only date those you'd consider marrying. I know that seems crazy to some people and that I'm perceived to be "missing out" / "stupid" / "crazy" by them, but I am glad she's the only woman I've been intimate with. ++ She's the only girl I've ever kissed.

            Throughout my childhood I was hyper, happy, etc. Through most of it I was also on Tegretol. Apparently it's a mood altering drug, beyond being used to control seizures. I was taken off it just before high school and have pretty much been battling depression ever since. I don't take medication for it and have never seen a therapist. Probably should have been seeing one at the start, but that's water under the bridge. I've learned to cope with depression and ADHD. Life's crazy, but you just gotta hang in there.

            Back to the marriage thing. Marriage takes work and commitment from both parties. Anyone who tells you different has drunk their own koolaid.

            --
            Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @08:23AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @08:23AM (#646276)

      Brain inflammation may explain why learning went from trivial to hard as I reached senior year.

      It was probably also difficult to learn because they weren't teaching anything, but just having you rote memorize information.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @12:21PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @12:21PM (#646321)

      I was depressed in high school, actually from 7th grade until a couple years into college.

      The prescription would have been something like "one 60 kg girlfriend, to be used as needed for symptoms".

      Yeah when you're that age you often don't understand that most of the girls your age are only interested in men in their 20s and older; you just feel like there's something wrong with you instead. There probably isn't. Even if you do realize it, it doesn't change the agonizing sense of hopelessness.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @04:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @04:11PM (#646447)

        When I was 15, were the 6-year-old girls interested? I'm not Mohammed, but I guess a 6-year-old would at least have given me a future to look forward to.

        What about when I was 13? Maybe a 4-year-old girl?

  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @03:24AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @03:24AM (#646187)

    Do you really think there is a such thing as a "normal" brain/psych state? "Sane" people remains "sane" because they know life is a god damn war. Even single-cell protozoa "knows" that.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 02 2018, @05:11AM (10 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @05:11AM (#646216) Journal

    I'm one of those long-term depression cases from earlier in life--think "suicidal 8 year old" here--and it was comorbid with PTSD, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, you name it. I'm also one of those people who can't take SSRIs. Being raised Catholic and discovering you're a lesbian at 14 (and not admitting it till 16 because of course not) didn't help either.

    Mostly the solution was to be my own cognitive behavioral therapist. Knowledge drives out fear. But your body needs to be in a state where it can do that in the first place, and one of the keys to *that* is making sure what goes into it isn't hurting the cause. Cutting out refined flours and sugars, especially HFCS, helps a lot. So does avoiding food dyes, at least for me. And avoiding all sweeteners aside from stevia and mannitol or erythritol made a huge difference; if I have even a swallow of a diet soda I feel like hell.

    Beyond that, stress depletes your magnesium levels and messes with your adrenal glands. In desperation I went to a local Chinese naturopath who diagnosed this as "kidney Yin deficiency," which more or less maps to adrenal fatigue. So I started biohacking my body a little, trying individual supplements to see what had what effect.

    BIG HONKING DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor, pharmacist, or biochemist. This is only what worked and has been working for me. Your body may be different, maybe very different.

    Far and away the magnesium was the most important. You want this in citrate form, as oxide is uselessly un-bioavailable and the malates, tartrates, and chelated forms are too expensive for not much better performance. I needed over three times the RDA daily for about a week to replete my cells, and then settled into a maintenance dose of about 200% of the RDA, half every morning and evening.

    Once that's working, add niacin if you can tolerate it--you WILL flush and itch and burn--and a methylfolate supplement, NOT folic acid. If you have an MTHFR gene mutation, as I suspect I do, you *need* the methylated form, as folic acid will just hurt you more. Vitamin D3 is also important; get a "dry" formulation, and take it with magnesium or it'll leach calcium out of your bones and deposit it in a nice thick layer across your vascular system, if I understand it right. Vitamin D is a steroid hormone, and its chemical moniker of "cholecalciferol" (bile + calcium + bearer) attests.

    I'm not sure if extra vitamin C helps, as it's water-soluble and you'll probably just pee out the excess, but I also take one of those that comes mixed with rutin, hesperidin, and a few other phytochemicals of that nature.

    Sometimes I'll take a very low dose iron supplement (you can guess when), but since most people reading this are men, you probably don't want that. I think I read somewhere that men need zinc like women need iron, but that zinc and magnesium interfere with one another, so if you take it, it would need to be early/mid-afternoon and as far away from the magnesium as possible.

    Again, this is only what worked for me. Clear this with a doctor first if you're interested in trying it out. I don't *think* there's anything harmful in here, and have felt much better on this regimen, but as always, caveat lector.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @05:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @05:30AM (#646219)

      > I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...

      Yup, my mother warned me about supplement junkies(grin)...
      But this wasn't a direct warning -- she is one and I'm afraid has gone a bit overboard (but rarely far enough to hurt herself).

      Glad to hear that you have worked out a useful regimen for yourself.

    • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:18AM

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:18AM (#646272) Homepage Journal

      Dr. K. used to assign me such homework as reading Lonnie Barbach's "For Yourself" which teaches women to experience orgasms.

      Eventually I started finding fear driving-out knowledgable books on my own.

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:27AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @11:27AM (#646317)

      I recently heard a presentation by Suzanne Humphries MD.[1]
      She said there's lots of stuff that gets better with more Vitamin C.
      She also said don't get the stuff with calcium. [google.com]
      I wish I'd known that when I was 25 so that I didn't get my first kidney stone at 26, which I suspect was from that source.

      These days, I'm seriously into chilis and have found a grocer where I can get pasillas or jalapeños or serranos on special almost every visit.
      (Better than citrus for Vitamin C.)

      [1] She's also an anti-vaxxer but she brings the science with her.

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by acid andy on Friday March 02 2018, @01:16PM (4 children)

      by acid andy (1683) on Friday March 02 2018, @01:16PM (#646327) Homepage Journal

      Yeah there's very probably something in it. When I first took a flax seed supplement, I felt almost euphoric. I think if you have a dietary deficiency then when you address that it can improve your mood. Of course, deficiencies aren't the only causes of depression -- there are unquestionably external mental factors as you identified. Maybe tackling depression therefore becomes fixing as many of the different factors as possible, until enough of a cascade in thinking and habits happens to overcome it. In my experience though sometimes you overcome it for a few months or even a few years but later find it easy to sink back into the old patterns, so it's a fiendishly complex and difficult thing.

      --
      Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday March 02 2018, @04:27PM (3 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday March 02 2018, @04:27PM (#646456)

        I think there's something to the supplements/diets and finding what works for you is a very good thing. Chronic excessive inflammation is bad juju for life, and if you've got it - getting it reduced is important. The most beneficial thing is getting to a state where you're not actively suffering - once there, you can "have a life" that allows you to get past feelings of being stuck in a bad place and that starts a positive feedback loop that can reduce your sensitivity to negative influences in the first place.

        I've tried a bunch of things over the years, and they either didn't have a noticeable impact after using them for a while, or even more often they didn't have a noticeable impact after discontinuing them for awhile - so I don't bother with those anymore. There's a more insidious variety like dandruff shampoo which actually does reduce dandruff when you start and increase it when you stop short term, but I liken that one to hand sanitizer - broad spectrum antimicrobial that wipes out the good with the bad, and I've decided that those things aren't in the "good for me" category.

        Some things that do appear to make a difference for me: reducing gluten intake to near zero - correlation with reduction in joint inflammation is very clear and noticeable (for 10+ years now) and there are other harder to pin down effects in the gut and brain. Foods high in ginger content seem to reduce inflammation also. Vitamin C and fiber from orange juice, blueberries or other sources clearly hits the positive column. High sensory input activities like bike riding or driving a convertible with the top down (or at least windows open on the highway in a fixed roof car), all seem to be clear mood lifters. I think my negative response to fluorescent lighting is a mental conditioning thing, but those can have real effects too.

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-ukraine-war-dirty-bomb-putin-1754428
        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 02 2018, @10:13PM (2 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @10:13PM (#646660) Journal

          Ooh, yeah, ginger is good stuff :) I have some powder in hot water every day. It's great for aches and pains, and it thins the blood slightly.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:41AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 03 2018, @01:41AM (#646761)

            "thins the blood slightly"

            And how exactly do you know that?

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:10AM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Saturday March 03 2018, @05:10AM (#646856) Journal

              ...seriously? 10 seconds and a well-formed query in the search engine of your choice will show both professional and amateur observations that ginger affects the clotting process in this manner. Try searching for something like "ginger drug interactions" and you'll get a long list of warnings about not combining it/using it with extreme caution in conjunction with Warfarin or the -xaban family, the activated clotting factor X inhibitors.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by meustrus on Friday March 02 2018, @05:31PM (1 child)

      by meustrus (4961) on Friday March 02 2018, @05:31PM (#646489)

      Being that it's very unlikely for anybody reading this to have the exact same set of issues, could you provide more information/resources on how you constructed this elaborate regimen for yourself? How does one diagnose "adrenal fatigue" or any of the deficiencies you are treating with supplements? What are all the chemicals you are avoiding, how did you decide to try avoiding them, and what specific harm can they inflict?

      --
      If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 02 2018, @10:09PM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 02 2018, @10:09PM (#646656) Journal

        To be completely honest, it's been "search my symptoms" and "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks," with a healthy dose of "don't put supplement even the least bit harmful at doses of up to 500% of the RDA in yourself." Well, that combined with long study of how particular systems and cycles in the body work.

        The information I've found on methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase SNPs in particular hit me like a truck, as the symptoms several people were mentioning that were as disparate as brain fog, fatigue, random aches, anxiety disorders, depression, constantly being pissed off, and *pulmonary goddamn embolism* all happened to me. About 10% have some form of MTHFR polymorphism, and while I can't afford the genetic testing to confirm or deny it, on a lark I decided to try substituting standard B complex for individual B vitamins, several in their methyl forms, and felt almost instant relief. So, test or no test, I'm guessing there is a problem with my muthafuckin' MTHFR production.

        Since this enzyme is involved in epigenetic expression and gene regulation via methylation, and is very important for converting homocysteine back to cysteine and methionine, loss-of-function polymorphisms would imply constant inflammatory problems, which would translate into cancer, cardiovascular disease, and likely dementia, if left untreated. My entire body feels, I don't know how to say this, "cooler" and "wetter" since starting this regimen, and I've got a lot more tolerance for peoples' and life's absurdities now.

        The magnesium is actually prior to this, and was something I tried because I'd heard it was good for reducing anxiety and promoting good sleep. It was, it just isn't the entire picture.

        Finally, the turmeric/black pepper thing is a component of much of my cooking to begin with, and reading about how piperine massively increases bioavailability of anti-inflammatory curcumins made a lightbulb go off. Eating home-cooked curry always makes me feel wonderful, beyond just what a satisfying meal would do, and I wondered for a long time exactly why. Supposedly towns and villages in India that cook with a lot of turmeric have near-zero rates of Alzheimer's, which might explain it.

        All of these things work synergistically. Magnesium is involved in literally hundreds of enzymatic reactions in the body, and I would bet good money the soil is depleted in Mg compared to even 50 years ago. The B vitamins all have different effects, and folate and cobalamins (B12) have interactions such that supplementing B12 can actually mask a folate deficiency because they're cofactors in some methylation cascades.

        What this all adds up to, in my lay(wo)man's mind, is 1) inflammation is bad and 2) my body is particularly prone to certain types of it (hyperhomocysteinaemia) due to low MTHFR activity among other reasons.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:14AM

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:14AM (#646268) Homepage Journal

    It is unclear whether mental illnesses are the same or different when they are experienced by people in different cultures.

    Is Pakistani Schizophrenia the same as American Schizophrenia?

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:15AM

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:15AM (#646271) Homepage Journal

    Such shrunken brains show up in CAT scans and autopsies as having significant space between the surface of the brain and the inside of the skull.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:22AM (1 child)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:22AM (#646274) Homepage Journal

    Shock treatment erases some or even all of your memories. B. doesn't remember ever having met me. She doesn't remember that we were friends.

    But she's gotten used to pretending she understands it when some complete stranger shows up in her live.

    That shock treatment helped at first, but her depression returned.

    Her entire life is filled with depression. She was depressed when she was a child and she'll be depressed when she's old and grey.

    I don't have a clue how she makes it through her day. I regard her as incredibly courageous, and incredibly strong.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday March 02 2018, @04:30PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday March 02 2018, @04:30PM (#646457)

      It's not cheap, and last I checked insurance doesn't cover it, but chronic vagal nerve stimulation can be an effective treatment for depression. Other than the implantable device (like a pacemaker), there are no significant side effects (unlike shock therapy...)

      Depression sucks.

      --
      Україна досі не є частиною Росії. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-ukraine-war-dirty-bomb-putin-1754428
  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday March 02 2018, @08:36AM (1 child)

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday March 02 2018, @08:36AM (#646285) Homepage Journal

    Ive been experiencing that for three years now.

    As depression approaches one gradually loses interest in all the things that make life pleasurable.

    If there is absolutely nothing you want to do for fun it's no surprise that you get depressed.

    I used to be heavily into studying piano. I have a really top-quality electric keyboard six feet away from me as I write this.

    I cannot even remember the last time I played it.

    The Elavil antidepressant I'm presently taking mostly makes me feel normal but it doesn't restore my interests in any of the things I used to be interested in. Were I to stop taking it, without those lost interests I would just get depressed again.

    Ironically my Elavil is cheap as dirt. It's been generic for decades. The patented and brand-name Latuda I took for a few months set Medicaid back five grand each of those months, but did nothing for me.

    Imipramine worked real well back in the day but oddly doesn't work anymore.

    My most-common symptom is just garden variety depression. It's uncommon that I experience any of the more intriguing symptoms, such as hallucinating police [warplife.com] all over everywhere. Really that's quite rare for me.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by acid andy on Friday March 02 2018, @01:21PM

      by acid andy (1683) on Friday March 02 2018, @01:21PM (#646329) Homepage Journal

      Anhedonia's a really tough one. You can even get to the point where you're doing something pleasurable and feeling the body's pleasure and happiness chemicals on a physiological level but it just feels ultimately unfulfilling and empty on a higher level. It's very, very odd.

      --
      Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @10:45AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @10:45AM (#646311)

    Forget pills and doctors, shame and guilt. Those will not help you.

    Instead change your surroundings entirely, like move to another city and do something different. It will allow you to become another person.

    • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday March 02 2018, @01:00PM (2 children)

      by acid andy (1683) on Friday March 02 2018, @01:00PM (#646325) Homepage Journal

      Forget pills and doctors, shame and guilt. Those will not help you.

      Who ever says that shame and guilt would help you? A pointy-haired suit telling you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps?

      I actually think shame and guilt can rather be one of the big root causes of depression. We're brought up to feel those things, in the education system, by our peers, and in the working world, but no-one ever seems to give a shit about telling us how to deal with those feelings. To those fuckers, a wage slave can never be too conscientious.

      --
      Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @05:39PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 02 2018, @05:39PM (#646492)

        i never even heard of using shame and guilt to eliminate depression. i can't imagine anyone would. i would expect that someone trying to manipulate a person could make that person depressed instead.

        if you or others are referring to religious stuff, no one gets high on life when feeling shamed and made to feel guilty. that shit is done to people because the doers want control. people that are happy enough to comply or just comply because they feel shamed or guilty because everyone else is complying... depression isn't going to be cured by such group therapy, and isn't the point.

        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday March 02 2018, @06:42PM

          by acid andy (1683) on Friday March 02 2018, @06:42PM (#646529) Homepage Journal

          i never even heard of using shame and guilt to eliminate depression. i can't imagine anyone would.

          I'd never heard of it either until the OP AC's comment. Perhaps if they're reading they'd like to explain what they meant?

          if you or others are referring to religious stuff, no one gets high on life when feeling shamed and made to feel guilty. that shit is done to people because the doers want control.

          Not exactly. I was thinking more of work ethic, where people are made to always feel guilty that they are not working hard enough or always that they are not earning enough, working long enough hours, or being promoted to a coveted enough position. Generally, there's more stick than carrot, and the endless drive for profit and growth means that the pressure is never let up, no matter how hard the person works. Consequently, the guilt can be never ending and can become all-consuming.

          depression isn't going to be cured by such group therapy, and isn't the point.

          It's not in the interests of the profiteers to teach people how to deal with being saddled with an excess of guilt, nor the depression that arises from it.

          You mentioned religion. The only thing I would say on that subject is that aspects of religion often get misused by these profiteers to further their cause and ease the indoctrination process.

          --
          Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
  • (Score: 2) by looorg on Friday March 02 2018, @02:33PM

    by looorg (578) on Friday March 02 2018, @02:33PM (#646373)

    So this is different from the normal changes in the brain then? In some kind of significant way? Or are we all depressed and if we would happen not to be our brains would never change?

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