Microsoft is finally taking some steps to address some issues that users have been complaining about with respect to Windows 10's update process. Though the changes are welcome, I have to ask whether they are enough. Also, what side-effects can one expect from these changes? How can I see if there are updates available without also starting the "update timer clock"?
I find it sad that after years and years of nudging friends, family, and co-workers that they should update "early and often" so as to be as safe as possible from security vulnerabilities, and their actually starting to embrace that paradigm, Microsoft's single-handedly severely damaged that outlook with how it presented and handled getting Windows 10 installed. I mean, clicking the "x" in the upper right hand corner of a dialog window to dismiss it was taken to mean "Yes, please update my computer to Windows 10".
Call me cautiously optimistic about the progress, but I'm waiting to see how this will all shake out and what issues may arise. Read on for more information from the official Microsoft Blog posting on this change. There's more info in the actual blog entry, so (contrary to common practice here) I strongly suggest actually reading the entire story.
Improving the Windows 10 Update Experience With Control, Quality and Transparency:
While regular updates are critical to keeping modern devices secure and running smoothly in a diverse and dynamic ecosystem, we have heard clear feedback that the Windows update process itself can be disruptive, particularly that Windows users would like more control over when updates happen. Today we are excited to announce significant changes in the Windows update process, changes designed to improve the experience, put the user in more control, and improve the quality of Windows updates.
In previous Windows 10 feature update rollouts, the update installation was automatically initiated on a device once our data gave us confidence that device would have a great update experience. Beginning with the Windows 10 May 2019 Update, users will be more in control of initiating the feature OS update. We will provide notification that an update is available and recommended based on our data, but it will be largely up to the user to initiate when the update occurs. When Windows 10 devices are at, or will soon reach, end of service, Windows update will continue to automatically initiate a feature update; keeping machines supported and receiving monthly updates is critical to device security and ecosystem health. We are adding new features that will empower users with control and transparency around when updates are installed. In fact, all customers will now have the ability to explicitly choose if they want to update their device when they “check for updates” or to pause updates for up to 35 days.
We are taking further steps to be confident in the quality of the May 2019 Update. We will increase the amount of time that the May 2019 Update spends in the Release Preview phase, and we will work closely with ecosystem partners during this phase to proactively obtain more early feedback about this release. This will give us additional signals to detect issues before broader deployment. We are also continuing to make significant new investments in machine learning (ML) technology to both detect high-impact issues efficiently at scale and further evolve how we intelligently select devices that will have a smooth update experience.
I’m pleased to announce that the Windows 10 May 2019 Update will start to be available next week in the Release Preview Ring for those in the Windows Insider Program. We will begin broader availability in late May for commercial customers, users who choose the new May 2019 Update for their Windows 10 PC via “check for updates,” and customers whose devices are nearing the end of support on a given release.
Do be aware that "Check for updates", which sounds benign, in reality starts a process where you will, eventually, get the update(s) applied:
Extended ability to pause updates for both feature and monthly updates. This extension ability is for all editions of Windows 10, including Home. Based on user feedback we know that any update can come at an inconvenient time, such as when a PC is needed for a big presentation. So, we’re making it possible for all users to pause both feature and monthly updates for up to 35 days (seven days at a time, up to five times). Once the 35-day pause period is reached, users will need to update their device before pausing again.
NOTE: If customers are running a variant of Windows 10 that is close to its end-of-support date, "Windows will automatically initiate a new feature update." There is supposed to be some kind of notification for some time before this occurs. See: confirmation on twitter.
See coverage at How-To Geek, ZDNet, and Thurrott.com.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday April 08 2019, @03:43AM (5 children)
i know many deride GNU/Linux varieties as being "difficult", but at the point that a company has users do stuff as described in TFA, you have to ask: are all windows users masohists?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Monday April 08 2019, @04:08AM (4 children)
> are all windows users masohists?
They are small, scared people who fear computers and hackers, and want Uncle Bill to keep them safe, even if he abuses and neglects them, and increases their exposure to the very dangers that sent them running into his embrace.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Acabatag on Monday April 08 2019, @04:15AM (3 children)
They're just people who view computers as appliances for their practical use.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday April 08 2019, @11:29AM (2 children)
Yes, that too. Fundamentally, it's a mindset that keeps them stuck on Windows. Businesses are renowned for being very practical, and not letting sentimental or other illogical reasons interfere with business decisions. And yet, they do. Such vision as management does have involves a curious worship of capitalism. Of course I don't mean that they have a special room where they pray to Adam Smith, Alan Greenspan, and Gordon Gekko. But they are big time believers in the profit motive, and free software such as Linux confuses them and threatens their beliefs. When they see a way to tie the profit motive to the maintenance and improvement of Linux, they feel better about the latter. It can be summed up in the expression "you get what you pay for". Linux is free, therefore its quality is suspect.
These days, ease of use complaints are clearly bogus. They're excuses used to justify choosing Windows rather than Linux. There has been no technical barrier for over a decade to the mythical year of Linux on the desktop finally arriving. MS Office's proprietary file formats still have a strong grip on the business world, and being able to run MS Office and work with .doc files is perhaps the number one reason people go with Windows. No, the ability of LibreOffice to read and write .doc files is good, but not good enough, maybe never can be good enough.
Then there is the gaming. The home PC has to run Windows, for all the games. So, Windows what they're comfortable with, even if nothing more than minesweeper and solitaire is ever played at the office.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday April 08 2019, @02:25PM
The game-over barriers are, and will remain as near as I can tell, twofold:
Other than that, Linux is by far the better choice IMHO (and yes, I develop desktop applications.)
* No, "service" is not a good model for profit for the desktop. A well documented, well designed, reliable application that is friendly to its users should need a minimum of service. If you can make money from "service", it just means you have awful documentation and/or functionality and/or reliability. When done right, an application just works, and "service" is not required.
--
I want to grow my own food, but I can't find pizza seeds.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @03:53PM
I worked at a windows/IBM iseries shop. They for some reason thought linux was some buggy kids project. This was in the late 2000s.
My boss made comments that he thought getting a support contract for linux was impossible.
Basically the reason we didn't run linux is that they don't pay enough money for the kind of admins who can run it. Indeed the only reason they were able to get me was that I was just starting my career and wasn't able to tell there was something wrong with my workplace.
It represented a bunch of good IT decisions that would have required a bunch of work and learning from the people there. Our microsoft contract was bigger than the combined salaries for the entire technical services department so it represented a bunch of money that could be trimmed from the budget but it was money that management wasn't complaining about spending.
Plus getting more people to run that shit would have been extremely uncomfortable for my boss would would have been left in the dust technically. For me he would just tell me I was wrong and since it was my first IT job I couldn't argue with him but once a guy came in and told him most of our tasks were pointless busywork that could be automated by anyone with two braincells. He'd look pretty dumb and he'd be worried this guy was going to steal his chances for promotion.
Lots of small complicated reasons we wouldn't run linux. None of them were good reasons but at a company where general managers barely pop over 6 figures and the ancient time entry application costs 60k/year in license fees; It's "What works"
Meanwhile my old boss and all the admins were clearly making moves to try and land better salaries there except they never get a chance to add the last few things to their resume that will get it taken seriously. No linux, and when something serious is wrong with the SAN or a router they use a service contract to take care of it. So it stays easy to suppress their wages and they never get a chance to quit.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Luke on Monday April 08 2019, @04:14AM (6 children)
Seemingly still no way to turn the bloody thing off >:-(
I support a system that uses older software to interface with lookout. It will run on earlier versions of Win10 (better still Win7 but let's not go there), however one of the enforced updates breaks it. In order to deal with this we actively block access to M$ servers, and I do some funky stuff with a powershell script.
At the same time we block M$ telemetry (not necessary and not useful to us for what we want to do thanks), and M$ store (also not necessary and not useful to us, and a distraction to users).
At least there's a way to deal with it, but the process of figuring that out and ensuring it worked was unnecessarily frustrating, and costly to the company.
Not Happy.
As for all this latest talk about control, transparency and quality - that sounds like a mix between a brush salesman and Pirsig's Phaedrus, an instantly worrying combination.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Acabatag on Monday April 08 2019, @04:19AM (2 children)
I just use a Windows Update blocker on my one laptop that runs Windows 10. It's a machine that I don't use that often, and it had gotten annoying that every time I turned it on, it insisted on doing an hour of 'updates' before I could use it.
There are simple to install .EXE applications that you can run that do a quick registry and services hack to turn off Windows Update on Windows 10 (in my case 'Home User' edition). You click the 'block updates' button. If you want to install updates you open the program again and click the 'enable updates' button, the run Windows Updates and install the mess, then run it again to 'block updates.' It's simple, it works, and it's an EXE that you don't even need to formally install.
I used it this weekend to install updates on the laptop, then I turned updates checking off again.
(Score: 2) by Oakenshield on Monday April 08 2019, @01:00PM (1 child)
Don't hold out on us. Give me a name or a link please!
(Score: 2) by Luke on Tuesday April 09 2019, @05:28AM
FYI I've tried O&O ShutUp10 and one or two others, mostly ok but still things kept leaking through.
In the end it took some registry hacks and a powershell script alongside of ShutUp10 before I was satisfied. Anything this didn't work on is captured at the border via IPtables or Squid.
I'm not at that site presently so can't get to the script right now, but I see this looks similar to what I did in the end: https://www.techsupportall.com/uninstall-built-apps-windows-10/ [techsupportall.com]
(Score: 2) by ilsa on Monday April 08 2019, @06:17PM (2 children)
Have you tried running the app in ReactOS?
(Score: 2) by Luke on Tuesday April 09 2019, @05:21AM (1 child)
No.
Although I keep an eye on ReactOS, and wish them all the best with it, it's just not enough together at this stage to consider in this environment (think > 100 machines, need to run high-end CAD and engineering applications, and print to plotters etc etc - I seem to recall ReactOS wasn't printing well last time looked..)
(Score: 2) by ilsa on Tuesday April 09 2019, @03:31PM
I was actually thinking of using it solely with that one application that was giving you grief. If it works for that, then you can at least run the app in a VM under ReactOS, and people could use whatever version of Windows for everything else.
Microsoft actually provided a similar feature with... some version of Windows. I can't remember which one, and if they still do. It was more polished because it was HyperV running applications in a rootless configuration with Windows XP or some such under the hood.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @04:56AM (1 child)
No. It took Microsoft 4 freaking years to partially revert an obvious-to-all poor decision that everyone kept complaining about. And what did we get? A data form interface that could have been written in a weekend by a web dev and that replicates functionality available in previous windows versions since the 90s.
The only progress I've seen from Microsoft during the last decade has been the dark theme and their attitude towards open source in the likes of this: https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator [github.com]
When I can look at a biannual feature release and spot 2 useful features and 4 important fixes that aren't addressing regression Microsoft caused by not listening to everyone involved, that's when I'll say there's progress.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @07:11AM
That's nothing but PR fluff. It's only posturing as the code is useless. At the same time they're pushing shit like OOXML, an ISO standard no less, which nobody follows, not even Micro$oft themselves. Its only reason to exist is to frustrate competition with M$ office and to further solidify their monopoly. It's still the same "good" old Micro$oft.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Monday April 08 2019, @05:28AM (4 children)
Just a couple of weeks ago, I got a new device [amazon.com] with Windows 10 pre-installed.
I plugged it in and powered it on and, yes, Windows 10 was waiting for me like a beacon of light in the dark, dark, night.
But I knew that it was important to keep my computer updated, to keep the bad people away, so that was the first thing I did.
I booted from a USB key and installed updates [fedoraproject.org]. Everything works great. I'm very pleased.
If I buy another computer it will *definitely* be with Windows 10 pre-installed. It works like a champ!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @07:15AM (1 child)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Monday April 08 2019, @07:47AM
Similar devices with Linux pre-installed were more expensive than this device. What's more, I would have wiped any pre-installed Linux as well.
As such, what difference does it make? Are you shorting Microsoft stock or something?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday April 08 2019, @04:22PM (1 child)
[The Tick] Soo...... NotSanguine was Sanguine with a Fedora replacement for the OS. Was not Exsanguinated over Win10 being on the machine but resanguinified an otherwise fine piece of hardware...... But is sstill NotSanguine. Hmmm...... [/The Tick]
This sig for rent.
(Score: 3, Funny) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:22AM
I know. My life is sooo complicated!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Snospar on Monday April 08 2019, @07:21AM (1 child)
Windows Update is one of the worst pieces of software on the planet and I'd estimate it has managed to collectively waste millions of hours of peoples time and patience. Do any of these new updates fix the issue where "feature" updates fail if you have GRUB installed in your MBR? I'm betting that they do not as Microsoft has ignored this issue since it first appeared with the first Windows 10 "feature" update.
And no, the 'solution' of (a) Removing GRUB and installing the Windows Bootloader into the MBR, (b) allowing Windows Update to complete the upgrade before (c) Re-installing GRUB and hoping none of your other system partitions have been hosed in the update process... is not a fix.
Huge thanks to all the Soylent volunteers without whom this community (and this post) would not be possible.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Monday April 08 2019, @07:55AM
For my home PC I keep my Linux on a separate disk connected via USB3, so whenever I want to run Win10 (games, CAD) I can keep the Linux disk powered off to stop Windows from possibly monkeying with it. Again.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by nobu_the_bard on Monday April 08 2019, @12:52PM
You can't win with updates. I get hosed whatever I do.
* Automatic updates every night -> Either, some system or software fails because of an incompatible update, and I don't find out until much later; or the Software Distribution folder grows huge and fills the entire hard drive because it gets stuck and updates start failing entirely (as well as other problems from having a full hard drive).
* Automatic updates every week -> long startup times the next day annoy users and generate a lot of complaints
* Automatic driver updates -> Windows picks the wrong drivers and breaks everything. Maybe not today but it will happen eventually.
* Delay updates -> Features software are expecting to have don't work right (mainly Office but others as well).
* Don't update -> Systems get hacked at a higher rate, with more severity, because of security vulnerabilities.
This is besides the updater breaking all the time.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Monday April 08 2019, @02:08PM (4 children)
The entire post sounds like Microsoft's usual empty promises designed to make people feel better just before Microsoft rapes them up the butt. ... So what are they going to change and mess up NOW?
If Microsoft wants to "fix" the update problems:
- No update should ever significantly change the user interface. Existing user documentation should never be invalidated. (As it is, they add unwanted shit willy-nilly)
- Updates should be small and quick to download. (As it is I have to leave my Windows 10 test box on overnight and my internet connection becomes unusable while it is running)
- Updates should only fix important bugs or security problems.
- Updates should never break applications. (Unless perhaps the application was really doing something it should not have been doing)
- Updates should never break a system, by either rendering it unbootable, slowing it down, or botching up the update process. This seems to happen too often.
- The device should remain usable for the purpose it was bought for, even if the use is an edge case.
- In case it is not already clear, updates should never force new features on users, should never add advertising, or add other anti-consumer features.
Unfortunately, it seems to be standard operating procedure these days for any vendor offering "updates" to abuse their update process. You want to stay "secure"? Here, download our new mandatory malware while we take away a few features you used all the time!
It's no wonder that users are increasingly finding roundabout ways to block "updates".
On another forum I visit there is a member that always gets their panties in a wad and starts scolding people left and right whenever they talk about turning off updates. He says he works in the security industry. He even goes as far as suggesting that people who don't update put themselves at serious legal risk.
The thing vendors and security professionals should keep in mind, is that every mis-feature they pump out, every unwanted change they force on you, every mess-up they make while updating is, in itself, a security risk, as users WILL find ways to avoid this shit.
(Score: 2) by EEMac on Monday April 08 2019, @02:38PM (2 children)
Has any operating system lived up to this list? Ever?
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Monday April 08 2019, @03:10PM
Probably not, but that does not mean this shouldn't be the ultimate goal.
(Score: 2) by https on Monday April 08 2019, @03:50PM
Every debian from sarge through wheezy, for me (on PPC hardware). Potato too, before that, but woody to sarge was a skill-testing question.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @06:31PM
I really liked how
so when they go EOL the forced migration to the next layer of hell still updates automatically...
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday April 08 2019, @02:12PM (1 child)
Can confirm:
--
Co-worker: "Good morning!"
Me: "You need to seriously calm down."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @05:52PM
exactly. my immediate family and many of my extended family run arch linux and ubuntu. when people tell me about their windows problems i like to say "enjoy your windows".
(Score: 4, Informative) by Snow on Monday April 08 2019, @03:09PM (1 child)
So you mean I can uninstall portions of updates? So if, for example, an update that includes updated crypto components ends up hosing my interfaces, I can disable just that portion of the update?
No? They are still massive monolithic 700MB+ update files that you can either install in its entirety or not install it?
Go back to the drawing board!
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday April 08 2019, @04:23PM
But... but...... but.......... They're telling you about all the stuff out of your control. That's something, isn't it?
Isn't it?
*crickets*
This sig for rent.