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posted by Fnord666 on Friday March 03 2017, @10:26AM   Printer-friendly
from the the-hype-is-real dept.

AMD Ryzen 7 Launches

Reviews and benchmarks for AMD's Ryzen 7 8-core desktop CPUs flooded out at 9 AM EST/6 AM PST:

Along with the new microarchitecture, Zen is the first CPU from AMD to be launched on GlobalFoundries' 14nm process, which is semi-licenced from Samsung. At a base overview, the process should offer 30% better efficiency over the 28nm HKMG (high-k metal gate) process used at TSMC for previous products. One of the issues facing AMD these past few years has been Intel's prowess in manufacturing, first at 22nm and then at 14nm - both using iterative FinFET generations. This gave an efficiency and die-size deficit to AMD through no real fault of their own: redesigning older Bulldozer-derived products for a smaller process is both difficult and gives a lot of waste, depending on how the microarchitecture as designed. Moving to GloFo' 14nm on FinFET, along with a new microarchitecture designed for this specific node, is one stepping stone to playing the game of high-end CPU performance.

Ryzen 5 chips will be released sometime in "Q2", and are presumed to have 4 to 6 cores with hyperthreading enabled. One of these has been revealed: the Ryzen 5 1600X. It has 6 cores, and equivalent clock (3.6 GHz) and turbo (4.0 GHz) speeds to the $500 8-core flagship Ryzen 7 1800X. Ryzen 3 chips will be released in the second half of the year, and include quad-cores with no hyperthreading.

The Intel Core i7-7700K maintains a lead in single-threaded performance, but the Ryzen 7 chips lead in many multi-threaded benchmarks (sometimes beating the $1089 Intel Core i7-6900K).

AMD Ryzen 7 Great, but Underwhelming for Gamers

PC Gamer has just published a lengthy and in-depth review of the new AMD Ryzen 7 CPU, (unfortunately broken down into seven separate pages). Their verdict? The AMD Ryzen 7 has plenty of power, but underwhelming video game performance.

The good news is that in heavily-threaded workloads, Ryzen looks every bit as potent as AMD has suggested. Processors with eight cores and sixteen threads have been relegated to the extreme performance community by Intel going back to the i7-5960X, with a starting price of $1000. AMD takes that ludicrous price tag and kicks it to the curb with a $500 halo part, and then ups the ante with $400 and $330 offerings. And just for good measure, every single Ryzen processor is multiplier unlocked, so enthusiasts can coax even more performance out of the parts.

If you've been longing to try out a beastly 16-threaded monster, the price barrier to entry just got slashed from around $2000 for a complete high-end build to around $1250. Ryzen also easily beats the old FX-series in every test I ran, with even the entry-level Ryzen 7 1700 at times more than doubling the performance of the FX-8370. Yeah.

The bad news is that Ryzen's single-threaded performance, and perhaps more importantly its clock speeds, aren't quite as impressive. In some workloads, Ryzen does a great job at keeping up with Intel's Haswell/Broadwell architectures, but it's about 5-10 percent slower per clock compared to Skylake/Kaby Lake. Toss in the higher clocks of Kaby Lake and 10 percent can quickly turn into a 40 percent deficit in some tests. Among the use cases where Intel maintains a decent lead over Ryzen is gaming performance, though this varies by game.

The result is some great wins for Ryzen, and some painful losses. But the losses are actually a bit odd. To be frank, Ryzen and the AM4 platform feel a bit undercooked right now.

It appears that Intel will remain the choice of CPU for video gamers, at least until the Zen+.

AnandTech's Interview with AMD CEO Lisa Su

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11177/making-amd-tick-a-very-zen-interview-with-dr-lisa-su-ceo

Q5: How vital was it to support Simultaneous Multi Threading?

LS: I think it was very important. I think it was very complicated! Our goal was to have a very balanced architecture. We wanted high single threaded performance, and SMT was important given where the competition is. We didn't want to apologize for anything with Zen – we wanted high single thread, we wanted many cores, but sorry we don't have SMT? We didn't want to say that, we wanted to be ambitious and give ourselves the time to get it done.

[...] Q8: Do you find that OEMs that haven't worked with AMD are suddenly coming on board?

LS: I will say that we have engagements with every OEM now on the high-performance space. Twelve months ago, a number of them would have said that they don't have the resources to do multiple platforms. So yes, I think momentum helps in this space.

Q9: At Intel's recent Investor Day we learned that future chips will incorporate multiple dies on the same package. This allows a semiconductor firm to focus on smaller chips and potentially better yields at the expense of some latency. Given what we predict will happen, what is your opinion on having large 600mm2 silicon? Is there a future?

LS: There has been a lot of debate on this topic. I find it a very interesting debate. Certainly on the graphics side we view High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) and the ability to get that interconnect between the GPU and memory to be extremely differentiating. So certainly we will use that throughout our graphics roadmap. If you look at our CPU roadmap, I do think there's a case to be made for multi-chip modules. It depends on the trade-offs you have to do, the bandwidth requirements you have, but yes as the process technology becomes more complicated, breaking up the tasks does make sense.

The day of reckoning.

Also at Tom's Hardware (which includes gaming benchmarks, unlike the AnandTech review), Ars Technica ("AMD Ryzen is an excellent workstation CPU—shame its gaming performance is weak"), PCWorld, HEXUS.

Previously: New Details of AMD's Desktop Zen/"Ryzen" Chips Released
AMD Ryzen Processor Hype is Building


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2Original Submission #3

Related Stories

New Details of AMD's Desktop Zen/"Ryzen" Chips Released 24 comments

AMD has released more details about its upcoming desktop CPUs:

For starters, it's no longer referred to by the architectural code-name "Zen," or by the desktop-specific implementation "Summit Ridge." Instead, you'll see those first CPUs show up on store shelves under the "Ryzen" brand. (As in, the company's CPU portfolio is reborn, or risen. Think of that what you will. [However, it is pronounced "Rye-zen".]) For now, it's distinct from the FX moniker, which just doesn't have the enthusiast cachet it did 13 years ago.

New features include:

  • "Pure Power", which monitors temperature, speed, voltage, and power consumption in real time
  • Clock speeds that can be adjusted by 25 MHz steps, rather than the typical 100 MHz increments of previous chips
  • "Extended Frequency Range", an automated system for overclocking when cooling is sufficient
  • A "true artificial network" for preloading instructions and prefetching data

AMD's Ryzen desktop chips are said to be on par with Intel's extreme/enthusiast chips such as the i7-6900K, for around half the price. The release date is still Q1 2017.

Previously: AMD Stock Jumps Ahead of Zen Preview and Licensing Rumors


Original Submission

AMD Ryzen Processor Hype is Building 38 comments

AMD Ryzen Improves IPC by 52%, not 40%

AMD Ryzen 7 desktop chips are now available for pre-order, and will be released generally on March 2nd. The cheapest "Ryzen 7" 8-core chip will be $329, but has 16 threads just like the $399 and $499 versions (there had been some concern that it might not have multi-threading). Ryzen 3 and 5 series quad-core and hex-core chips will be released later.

AMD held a "Tech Day" to share details about its new chips. Over the past year or two, AMD has said that their goal was to improve instructions per clock (IPC) by 40% with Zen/Ryzen. Now they are saying that they have achieved that... by improving IPC by 52%. It's an impressive number that would not have been possible had Ryzen's predecessor, the Bulldozer architecture, been competitive with Intel's CPUs (on single-threaded performance). However, keep in mind that comparisons between Ryzen and Bulldozer or certain Intel Core i7 CPUs are still based on information provided by AMD.

The 8-core design features 4.8 billion transistors and "200 meters of wiring".

YouTuber removes footage of Ryzen Overclock World Record

YouTube tech pundit Austin Evans uploaded a video earlier today containing footage of AMD's Ryzen launch event. Shortly afterwards, the video was made private, then replaced with a re-edited version of the piece with a couple of changes. A section in which Austin outed the Vega video card by name was edited and overdubbed with the description "a really cool graphics card".

Another section of the video showed an overclocking competition held at the event with a number of well-known LN2 overclocking experts seeing just how far they could push the new Ryzen chips. This whole section was removed, including footage of "a Ryzen chip" running at just over 5.1GHz, followed by the OCers celebrating as a run on Cinebench's R15 multi-threaded performance test set a new world record.

Comments on the video asking why the video was replaced and uploaded confirm that the Vega mention and OC section were removed. Austin Evans did not explain exactly why these changes were made, merely saying "YOU SAW NOTHING" in the comments section.

The 5.1GHz figure is from my memory. I think it might have been 5.16GHz more exactly, but I'm not completely sure about that and obviously can't verify it from the original video.


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

Game Optimization Narrows the Gap Between Intel Core CPUs and AMD's Ryzen 16 comments

Some Soylentils were disappointed by the gaming performance of AMD's Ryzen CPUs when they were launched last month. By now, updates have eliminated some of the advantage that Intel CPUs had, but the potential gains differ depending on the game:

The first big Ryzen patch was for Ashes of the Singularity. Ryzen's performance in Ashes was arguably one of the more surprising findings in the initial benchmarking. The game has been widely used as a kind of showcase for the advantages of DirectX 12 and the multithreaded scaling that it shows. We spoke to the game's developers, and they told us that its engine splits up the work it has to do between multiple cores automatically.

In general, the Ryzen 1800X performed at about the same level as Intel's Broadwell-E 6900K. Both parts are 8-core, 16-thread chips, and while Broadwell-E has a modest instructions-per-cycle advantage in most workloads, Ryzen's higher clock speed is enough to make up for that deficit. But in Ashes of the Singularity under DirectX 12, the 6900K had average frame rates about 25 percent better than the AMD chip.

In late March, Oxide/Stardock released a Ryzen performance update for Ashes, and it has gone a long way toward closing that gap. PC Perspective tested the update, and depending on graphics settings and memory clock speeds, Ryzen's average frame rate went up by between 17 and 31 percent. The 1800X still trails the 6900K, but now the gap is about 9 percent, or even less with overclocked memory (but we'll talk more about memory later on).


Original Submission

AMD Profits in Q3 2017 9 comments

AMD turned a profit last quarter:

2017 has been a great year for the tech enthusiast, with the return of meaningful competition in the PC space. Today, AMD announced their third quarter earnings, which beat expectations, and put the company's ledgers back in the black in their GAAP earnings. For the quarter, AMD had revenues of $1.64 billion, compared to $1.31 billion a year ago, which is a gain of just over 25%. Operating income was $126 million, compared to a $293 million loss a year ago, and net income was $71 million, compared to a net loss of $406 million a year ago. This resulted in earnings per share of $0.07, compared to a loss per share of $0.50 in Q3 2016.

[...] The Computing and Graphics segment has been a key to these numbers, with some impressive launches this year, especially on the CPU side. Revenue for this segment was up 74% to $819 million, and AMD attributes this to strong sales of both Radeon GPUs and Ryzen desktop processors. Average Selling Price (ASP) was also up significantly thanks to Ryzen sales. AMD is still undercutting Intel on price, but they don't have to almost give things away like they did the last couple of years. ASP of GPUs was also up significantly, and the proliferation of cryptocurrency likely played a large part in that. Operating income for the segment was an impressive $70 million, compared to an operating loss of $66 million last year.

When AMD turns a profit, it is news. Stocks still plunged on concerns over future growth. Citi Research has predicted big losses for AMD as Intel ships its Coffee Lake CPUs.

Previously: AMD Ryzen Launch News
AMD GPU Supply Exhausted By Cryptocurrency Mining, AIBs Now Directly Advertising To Miners
AMD Epyc 7000-Series Launched With Up to 32 Cores
Cryptocoin GPU Bubble?
Ethereum Mining Craze Leads to GPU Shortages
Used GPUs Flood the Market as Ethereum's Price Crashes Below $150
AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 and 56 Announced
First Two AMD Threadripper Chips Out on Aug. 10, New 8-Core Version on Aug. 31
Cryptocurrency Mining Wipes Out Vega 64 Stock
AMD Expected to Release Ryzen CPUs on a 12nm Process in Q1 2018


Original Submission

AMD Expected to Release Ryzen CPUs on a 12nm Process in Q1 2018 10 comments

AMD's high Ryzen sales may have convinced the company to release a new version on a slightly improved process in Spring 2018:

AMD has informed its partners that it plans to launch in February 2018 an upgrade version of its Ryzen series processors built using a 12nm low-power (12LP) process at Globalfoundries, according to sources at motherboard makers.

The company will initially release the CPUs codenamed Pinnacle 7, followed by mid-range Pinnacle 5 and entry-level Pinnacle 3 processors in March 2018, the sources disclosed. AMD is also expected to see its share of the desktop CPU market return to 30% in the first half of 2018.

AMD will launch the low-power version of Pinnacle processors in April 2018 and the enterprise version Pinnacle Pro in May 2018.

The new "Pinnacle Ridge" chips appear to be part of a Zen 1 refresh rather than "Zen 2", which is expected to ship in 2019 on a 7nm process. The 12nm Leading-Performance (12LP) process was described by GlobalFoundries as providing 15% greater circuit density and a 10% performance increase compared to its 14nm FinFET process.

AMD has yet to release 14nm "Raven Ridge" CPUs for laptops.

Also at Wccftech. HPCwire article about the 12LP process.

Previously: AMD Ryzen Launch News
AMD's Ryzen Could be Forcing Intel to Release "Coffee Lake" CPUs Sooner
AMD Ryzen 3 Reviewed


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @12:00PM (20 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @12:00PM (#474325)

    AM4 is the first prosumer chipset from AMD that has the PSP (Platform Support Processor aka AMD's TrustZone core) on it. If you are one of the people who migrated to AMD over spyware concerns related to Intel's ME (Management Engine), you are officially out of luck from this generation on. As soon as AM3+/G34 chip supplies run out you only have a choice between three processor architectures all of which are now using partial/wholly signed+encrypted firmware blobs with privileges, obscurity and hardware access all greater than your own.

    Furthermore if you have adopted Tor, I2P, or another anonymity network assuming it will protect you from the government, realize these same engines could be used to perform Sybil attacks against the majority of the network since almost everyone providing peer node services is running a chip new enough to have these privacy and security concerns, meaning the added traffic obfuscation should not be trusted to actually exist!

    Food for thought on this bitter bitter day.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @12:37PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @12:37PM (#474331)

      If you're so concerned, why not just monitor the data passing between your computer and the world?

      • (Score: 2) by lentilla on Friday March 03 2017, @03:08PM (6 children)

        by lentilla (1770) on Friday March 03 2017, @03:08PM (#474369)

        Because cryptography doesn't work like that. An encrypted message looks like random noise. Unfortunately, a message encrypted with a backdoored encryption algorithm also looks like random noise. Thus, one simply can't tell from looking at the data if there is an issue - hence the insidious nature of this threat.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:29PM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:29PM (#474381)

          Where is the traffic going? When is the traffic going? How much traffic is going? All of this META data is what is ACTUALLY valuable in making a determination.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:33PM (4 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:33PM (#474383)

            NSA shill detected. Content is what gets you convicted.

            • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday March 03 2017, @05:32PM (3 children)

              by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday March 03 2017, @05:32PM (#474453)

              No, the previous AC has a point. If your network card is phoning home, you should be able to see evidence from a trusted machine. If you are in control of your computer, you should have access to all of the necessary decryption keys to decode your own traffic.

              The difficulty, IMO, is that 99.99% of the time the TLAs will not be actively monitoring you. Tor may even make it difficult for them to send a specially crafted packet to your NIC.

              • (Score: 2) by jasassin on Friday March 03 2017, @11:04PM (2 children)

                by jasassin (3566) <jasassin@gmail.com> on Friday March 03 2017, @11:04PM (#474661) Journal

                The problem is networking happens on lots of layers. Look up tcpip programming. Weird shit happens at a lower layer than tcpip. Shit your stack or routers don't even know about. It must be something super genius because I haven't heard anything from wikileaks about it. Yet it exists. What does it send?

                --
                jasassin@gmail.com Key fingerprint = 0644 173D 8EED AB73 C2A6 B363 8A70 579B B6A7 02CA
                • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday March 03 2017, @11:39PM (1 child)

                  by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday March 03 2017, @11:39PM (#474681)

                  Generally, things happening below the TCP layer are non-routable (based on MAC address).

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @12:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @12:40PM (#474333)

      Food for thought on this bitter bitter day.

      I'm looking at ryzen for an air gapped workstation so fill my upturned the tinfoil hat and pass the ketchup!

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Friday March 03 2017, @01:02PM (1 child)

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday March 03 2017, @01:02PM (#474339) Homepage
      Stick your modern machines on a non-routable subnet behind a firewall that you've configured rock solid.
      If no packets can get to your vulnerable machines, their vulnerabilities will never be exploited.

      Such "enterprise-friendly" mis-features are pretty much universal, the milk's already been spilt. Then again, some of us are happy running non-x86 archs like MIPS/ARM or are still running on:
      $ cat /proc/cpuinfo
      processor : 0
      vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
      cpu family : 6
      model : 10
      model name : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+
      stepping : 0
      cpu MHz : 2074.549
      --
      If vaccination works, then why doesn't eucharist protect kids against Christianity?
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @01:37PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @01:37PM (#474352)

        Or can DPI enough to keep out unknown and as-yet undocumented attacks utilizing the ME/PSP is the point at which you don't need an x86 arch piece of hardware and have the finances to either audit those systems to ensure an adequate level of security or pay for systems without those misfeatures.

        The problem is this technology fundamentally compromises the security of not only your own local hardware, but also any remote hardware you might be accessing, some of which intentionally or unintentionally may have access to code operating on your system allow privilege escalation which then allows attacks against other hardware in your system, whether the CPU/ME, the bios, the firmware on your network card/encryption processor/gpu, or code injected/activated on your storage device's firmware (whether HDD, SSD, or another storage technology.)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @01:04PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @01:04PM (#474340)

      I guess that rules out Libreboot on Ryzen systems for now. My money will stay in my wallet then.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @01:29PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @01:29PM (#474349)

        No coreboot support or documentation releases for Ryzen.

        A seperate one linked to a Reddit AMA with AMD staff including the CEO and had one of their PR people reply that he would mention the unsigned PSP option to their hardware department (no doubt to make an excuse later like they have done the last two times they backed away from open documentation/open source bios support, after getting off to such a good start in the years prior.)

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @02:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @02:41PM (#474359)

          Also an interesting quote [phoronix.com] from what appears to be someone working at AMD:

          I have been one of the people speaking up internally for finding ways to offer "trustable" hardware; not necessarily open sourcing all of the PSP code (unless we could do it without putting other important parts of the business at risk) but maybe offering SKUs with disabled PSP or with minimal code that we *could* open.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:39PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:39PM (#474390)

          nice link, jackass.

          • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @04:15PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @04:15PM (#474408)

            Here's the link for the asshole AC:

            -.... ....- ..... --... -.... ....- -.... . ..... ----. ...-- ..--- ..... ----. ...-- -.... ....- -.-. --... ----. ...-- ----. --... .---- -.... .---- -.... -.. -.... ..-. --... ..... ..... .- ..... ---.. ....- .- --... ---.. -.... ...-- ..... ---.. ..... .- -.... . ....- -.-. -.... . ....- ..--- -.... ----. -.... ..... -.... ----. ...-- ----. -.... -.-. ....- -.-. ...-- ----- ...-- ..... ...-- -.... -.... ...-- ..... ...-- ...-- ----. --... --... ..... ----. -.... . --... ----- ...-- -.... -.... ...-- -.... -.. ....- -.... -.... . ..... .- -.... ----. ...-- ---.. ...-- .---- -.... .---- --... .- ..... ..--- ...-- .---- -.... .---- ...-- ..--- -.... --... --... -.... -.... .---- -.... . ....- .- -.... -.... -.... ..--- -.... -.. ..... -.... --... ----. ..... ---.. ...-- ..--- ...-- ..... ...-- -.... -.... ...-- ..... -.... ...-- ----. --... --... ..... .- ..... ---.. ....- .- --... ..... ..... .- ...-- ..--- ....- .- -.... -.-. ..... .- -.... -.-. ...-- ----. -.... ----. -.... ...-- ...-- .---- ...-- ----. --... ..... ..... .- ...-- ...-- ..... -.... ...-- ..... ..... ----. -.... -.. ....- -.... -.... -.... ..... .- ..... --... ...-- ..... --... ---.. -.... ...-- -.... -.. ....- .- -.... ---.. ..... ---.. ...-- ..--- ...-- ..... -.... ---.. -.... ...-- ..... -.... ...-- ----. -.... ----. ..... .- ...-- ...-- ..... -.... --... ----. ..... .- ..... ...-- ...-- ---.. ...-- -..

            If you had asked nicely I wouldn't have made you work for it. Now fuck off.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:48PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:48PM (#474398)

          if they want me to upgrade they will either have to wait many years until i have no choice/give up the good fight or get their hardware trustable. sick of stupid ass hardware vendors trying to treat us like we're ignorant slaves. You're so smart you can't read the writing on the wall? Or maybe you just want to force tyranny on us b/c you're whores of the supranational surveillance state? Maybe you're just too dumb to figure out how to make money without being a slave trader? Either way you are, at the very least, tarnishing your brand. Good job geniuses. Don't release another chip until you have something trustable.

        • (Score: 2) by Bot on Friday March 03 2017, @05:53PM (1 child)

          by Bot (3902) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @05:53PM (#474470)

          > two times they backed away from open documentation/open source bios support

          Notice the implication of this. AMD took its time and resources to open up stuff, thereby acquiring an image and commercial advance, only to do a 180 degree turn, losing image, money. It is clearly caving in to pressure from shadow government.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @08:00PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @08:00PM (#474534)

            two times they backed away from open documentation/open source bios support

            Notice the implication of this. AMD took its time and resources to open up stuff, thereby acquiring an image and commercial advance, only to do a 180 degree turn, losing image, money. It is clearly caving in to pressure from shadow government

            Stupid management decisions seem like a far more likely explanation. Some manager doesn't see any value in releasing free stuff to the public so it just looks like wasted staff time that can be spent on more productive activities like reading SoylentNews.

            AMD is not winning on raw performance, but due to the totally locked down nature of Intel's entire product lineup today they really do have an opportunity to stand out in other areas, such as a blob-free boot sequence and not requiring any mysterious omnipotent coprocessors.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @03:43PM (#474394)

      It's a shame, really. AMD has an opportunity to really stand out from Intel by not having an Intel ME clone and not copying the way Intel FSP works.

      Sad that Talos failed.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by tibman on Friday March 03 2017, @02:47PM (11 children)

    by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @02:47PM (#474362)

    All to pro-Intel people will be out claiming that AMD failed to release a good processor again. They're wrong. If you read the reviews, even biased ones, they clearly shows the processor is very good. Whether it's the best or not is the argument. Might be several months before the dust settles on this one. There are a lot of drivers to still tweak and so on.

    Disclaimer: I'm biased. Ryzen 1800x is on the way : )

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    SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
    • (Score: 2) by Celestial on Friday March 03 2017, @03:27PM (8 children)

      by Celestial (4891) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @03:27PM (#474380) Journal

      From everything I've read thus far, AMD Ryzen CPUs are very good. It's just that Intel Kaby Lake CPUs are better for video games, sometimes up to 40% better. If you don't play video games, the Ryzen certainly looks very appealing. If you do play video games however, Intel is the way to go.

      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @05:09PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @05:09PM (#474446)

        40% better? I don't believe that's possible in anything but some pointless corner-case of a badly programmed or unoptimized game. Considering the problems that sites have been having with the Asus motherboards sent out, I'm more inclined to believe that much of a difference is due to faulty hardware and bad review practices.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday March 03 2017, @05:44PM (4 children)

          by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday March 03 2017, @05:44PM (#474465)

          Source: AMD Ryzen R7 1800X Review: An i5 in Gaming, i7 in Production; page 7 (Gaming benchmarks) [gamersnexus.net]

          Had to click though 6 Ad-heavy pages to get there :P

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @08:12PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 03 2017, @08:12PM (#474546)

            That is so far off of the rest of the data that it must be treated as suspicious. At the very least, presenting it as the average use case is disingenuous at best, and more likely purposely deceptive.

            • (Score: 1) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday March 03 2017, @08:54PM (1 child)

              by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday March 03 2017, @08:54PM (#474572)

              AMD has been pressuring reviewers to benchmark at 4k resolutions: pushing bottlenecks to the GPU, rather than the CPU under test.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by tibman on Friday March 03 2017, @09:25PM

                by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @09:25PM (#474599)

                There's a half-truth in that. They've been pressuring reviewers to not just do 1080p. To ALSO review 1440p and 4k.

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                SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
            • (Score: 2) by tibman on Friday March 03 2017, @09:22PM

              by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @09:22PM (#474594)

              I think that's a big part of it. There's some wildly different results. Trying to figure out why might take a little while.

              --
              SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday March 03 2017, @07:07PM

        by bob_super (1357) on Friday March 03 2017, @07:07PM (#474513)

        Most AAA games are more GPU-bound than CPU-bound.
        Even an old CPU will do the job, if your video card is recent enough.

      • (Score: 2) by Hawkwind on Friday March 03 2017, @07:23PM

        by Hawkwind (3531) on Friday March 03 2017, @07:23PM (#474520)

        Well, if you do play games keep in mind just how much CPU power you really need and your budget. Personally I'm not an fps obsessed player that needs the shiniest moving water possible (but have no qualms with anyone who is - after all it drives progress).

    • (Score: 1) by toddestan on Sunday March 05 2017, @04:17AM (1 child)

      by toddestan (4982) on Sunday March 05 2017, @04:17AM (#475128)

      I just hope they have some decent chipsets. The Athlon XP was hobbled by shitty VIA chipsets, with only nVidia's nForce chipset which came in towards the end being any good. However, that was not to last, as nVidia's chipsets for AM2 were absolute garbage. After dealing with AMD's own flaky chipsets on AM3, I finally gave up on the AMD platform and assembled my first Intel system. I'm still rooting for AMD, but at the same time I also like my computer to work.

      • (Score: 2) by tibman on Tuesday March 07 2017, @03:03PM

        by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 07 2017, @03:03PM (#476030)

        Totally with you on the chipset thing. The processor is only a part of the whole ecosystem.

        That nForce chipset did have bad linux support. I remember the ethernet being very difficult to bring up.

        --
        SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Subsentient on Friday March 03 2017, @03:25PM

    Looking at what I can see, these CPUs are still a bit behind Intel in gaming performance, but not horribly so, and at around half the price of the Intel offering, if I was in the market, I'd pick the Ryzen. It also seems to decisively beat the Intel CPUs in non-gaming applications in a number of places. Compared to the benchmarks I've seen on other CPUs from AMD, the Ryzen is a massive, MASSIVE improvement that's almost on par with Intel's best offerings for twice the price. Good job AMD, now let's see if you can leave Intel in the dust with gaming, too. I hope so. Monopolies are bad.
    --
    "Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer." -Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #208
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Bill Dimm on Friday March 03 2017, @04:48PM

    by Bill Dimm (940) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @04:48PM (#474431)

    For what it's worth, the tail end of the PCWorld article [pcworld.com] says that AMD blames the game performance on games being optimized for Intel (since AMD didn't really have high-end CPU offerings in recent years) and they are working with developers to improve that.

  • (Score: 4, Informative) by Chromium_One on Friday March 03 2017, @05:44PM (2 children)

    by Chromium_One (4574) on Friday March 03 2017, @05:44PM (#474466)

    With a little due diligence and you won't get caught out.

    The Intel Management Engine IS IN NO WAY ANY FUCKING KIND OF MAGIC. Communications in and out from it are done via a more-or-less standard NIC and TCP/IP. It has to be able to talk to your network to get anything out, and you can snoop traffic, filter the MAC at your firewall, whatever, like anything else on your network.

    On your normal home PC, this feature set is generally disabled by default, and sometimes even hardware disabled by your manufacturer. If you want to use it, if it's even available, you'll have verify drivers are installed and then go find the tools to configure it.

    For corporate systems, hire someone halfway competent to prep new installs before deployment.

    As for AMD, I have not had opportunity to play with their version of this tech. Would expect that it's not that much different though.

    --
    When you live in a sick society, everything you do is wrong.
    • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Friday March 03 2017, @10:05PM (1 child)

      by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @10:05PM (#474628)

      I have not done any technical investigation into this matter whatsoever. However, I have read online that the ME has its internal NIC which is tied to the integrated ethernet controller on the motherboard. To me, this stands to reason. A proposed workaround I saw was the addition of a PCI NIC. Would the ME still be able to access it? Or is this a fundamental misunderstanding of mine about the technology?

      • (Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Friday March 03 2017, @10:11PM

        by Scruffy Beard 2 (6030) on Friday March 03 2017, @10:11PM (#474631)

        Depends: is the replacement and Intel Pro adapter?

        Any add-on card has access to memory via DMA.

  • (Score: 2) by snufu on Friday March 03 2017, @06:35PM (4 children)

    by snufu (5855) on Friday March 03 2017, @06:35PM (#474489)

    If I use my system for mixed work (often multithreaded?) and gaming (mostly single threaded?) does Ryzen do a better job of balancing these than intel, or would intel be better on average for both tasks?

    • (Score: 2) by Marand on Friday March 03 2017, @07:33PM (2 children)

      by Marand (1081) on Friday March 03 2017, @07:33PM (#474523) Journal

      If your primary concern is gaming you might still want to stick with Intel (at least for now), but if you're mixing a lot of multithreaded work in there, the performance loss in older/current games might be worth it since everything I've seen so far suggests that the Ryzen chips are comparable to Intel's $1000 offerings for multi-thread workloads.

      Something else to consider is that gaming has been getting better about using multiple cores, so even though most current games only use 2-4 — single-threaded games are much less common now, outside of indie stuff maybe — we're starting to see an uptick in games using what you've got when available. Games that aren't made to handle more than one or two cores will do better with Intel, but older games are also not as likely to push a system anyway, so it's probably not a huge concern. Also, if you're interested in streaming while you play, Ryzen may still be a win even despite the single-thread performance difference because the recording and encoding should have less effect on game performance.

      Finally, keep in mind that current game performance is a risky thing to base CPU choice off of because future games are likely to be better optimised for a new CPU's features and quirks, whereas the games already out won't unless they get patched. Plus there's all kinds of shenanigans going on with regard to optimising for specific CPUs and GPUs, anything compiled with Intel's compiler likely still punishes non-Intel CPUs and many devs don't care (they had to add a notice that it happens but not actually change the behaviour, AFAIK), etc.

      • (Score: 2) by snufu on Friday March 03 2017, @10:22PM (1 child)

        by snufu (5855) on Friday March 03 2017, @10:22PM (#474641)

        It sounds like there isn't a simple answer. OK, does the choice become easier if cost (a few hundred dollar difference) is not a factor? What is the most future proof?

        Disclaimer: I don't know what I am talking about. Specifically I don't know how much of my typical workload is multithreaded.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by Marand on Monday March 06 2017, @02:22AM

          by Marand (1081) on Monday March 06 2017, @02:22AM (#475460) Journal

          [First off, sorry for the delayed response. I saw the response notification while on mobile and forgot about it by the time I had a chance to sit down and respond. Just remembered it again...]

          If cost is no concern at all, probably Intel, at least for the moment. Even if Ryzen's better in every way it's going to take time for software to catch up. As for future-proofing, there's no way to say. AMD's last architecture bet heavily on certain types of workloads and that didn't pan out, while Intel's plan did, so they've been ahead for a while. Prior to that, Intel bet on longer pipelines with Pentium 4 around when AMD went for 64bit, and AMD won that one.

          If it were my call, I'd go for Ryzen right now and hope for the best, but that's as much because I don't like Intel's business practices as any other reason. AMD seems to have a good enough design this time that I feel like I can back the company that deserves it while still getting good performance, and a good price/performance value.

          Specifically I don't know how much of my typical workload is multithreaded.

          It's nice when software can use the cores directly, of course, because you can see a direct impact (faster compiles/renders/etc.) but it's not the only way your system can use them. Even if your software can't take advantage of it, you can still benefit from extra cores as long as your OS can, because it can put different processes on different cores and keep things running smoothly. Like the example I gave of encoding video for streaming while gaming, or being able to dedicate cores to virtual machines without sacrificing performance on the host OS, etc.

          Sorry I'm not giving you a clean, clear answer here. There isn't one to give, it's a muddy subject with no single correct answer. Most anything will be "good enough" for most tasks, and picking something optimal to a specific workload has as many answers as workloads.

          It also doesn't help that it's hard to trust benchmarks and other information, which makes it even harder to give an answer. Intel has repeatedly been caught using its compiler (ICC), which has been super-popular especially on Windows, to fudge benchmarks or cripple competitors' chips. They had it check the CPU vendor information and disable optimisations for non-Intel parts in the past, and more recently attempted to fudge a popular Android benchmark by having the compiler check if the benchmark was running and, if so, replaced certain calculations with no-ops on Atom CPUs to make them score better. So, even when Intel really is performing better, it's hard to say how much of it is real, and how much of it is due to compiler shenanigans.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by linkdude64 on Friday March 03 2017, @10:10PM

      by linkdude64 (5482) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 03 2017, @10:10PM (#474630)

      Seems like if you want to stick to Intel for equal gaming performance you can pay a few hundred dollars more - but then you'll lose on the other facets, generate more heat (will throttle), have spent more money, and will have supported the monopoly.

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