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posted by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:29AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the sick-and-tired-of-being-sick-and-tired dept.

Many nations have begun to take special measures to address the problem of the spread of the COVID-19 virus over every continent. It would be pointless to report the details of all such measures; they are limited to each specific country and liable to frequent change as the situation develops. The USA FDA (Food and Drug Administration) have carried out what they describe as a "Supply Change Update", see the link below, but for others we suggest using a bit of web-search-fu to discover a site more appropriate to your own area of interest.

Worldwide, newspapers and other media need to maintain sales and subscriptions — many tend, therefore, to sensationalize their reporting. This has two undesirable effects: firstly it can result in data being quoted out of context to support the report they are making and, secondly, it tends to stress the possible effects of the COVID pandemic, should it be declared as such. In a comment elsewhere, I reported 2 tables which contain the most accurate figures we can find from a reputable source. They indicate the vulnerability of people to the virus by age, and any links to comorbidity (as far as they are known). There is no doubt that the virus poses a serious threat but it is not the same for all ages and many deaths are attributed to a combination of COVID-19 infection and other pre-existing conditions. For the latter it has not be proven that the virus was the sole cause of death; it is possible that the person would have died anyway. As postmortems have not been carried out in the vast majority of cases, the figures are open to misinterpretation. The WHO (World Health Organization) stresses that they will be unable to clarify these findings for a long time to come.

As it stands, for a person below the age of 70 with no other medical conditions, the chances of dying from a COVID-19 infection is less than 1%. That is still a large number of people at risk and the implications for every nation are significant. It is, however, much lower than some of the figures that have been quoted in the press. The figures for people over 70 and with other conditions cause the rate to rise quite sharply, and I would suggest that we all keep an watchful eye on the elderly or infirm members of our family and friends.

The majority of people will only suffer mild flu-like symptoms and will make a full recovery. - janrinok

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Supply Chain Update

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Supply Chain Update:

As I have previously communicated, the FDA has been closely monitoring the supply chain with the expectation that the COVID-19 outbreak would likely impact the medical product supply chain, including potential disruptions to supply or shortages of critical medical products in the U.S.

A manufacturer has alerted us to a shortage of a human drug that was recently added to the drug shortages list. The manufacturer just notified us that this shortage is related to a site affected by coronavirus. The shortage is due to an issue with manufacturing of an active pharmaceutical ingredient used in the drug. It is important to note that there are other alternatives that can be used by patients. We are working with the manufacturer as well as other manufacturers to mitigate the shortage. We will do everything possible to mitigate the shortage.

Additional Information on Human Drugs

Since January 24, the FDA has been in touch with more than 180 manufacturers of human drugs, not only to remind them of applicable legal requirements for notifying the FDA of any anticipated supply disruptions, but also asking them to evaluate their entire supply chain, including active pharmaceutical ingredients (the main ingredient in the drug and part that produces the intended effects, e.g., acetaminophen) and other components manufactured in China.

Also, as part of our efforts, the FDA has identified about 20 other drugs, which solely source their active pharmaceutical ingredients or finished drug products from China. We have been in contact with those firms to assess whether they face any drug shortage risks due to the outbreak. None of these firms have reported any shortage to date. Also, these drugs are considered non-critical drugs.

We will remain in contact with manufacturers so that we can continue to assist them with any potential issues in the fastest way.

The report continues for several pages and covers a variety of issues relevant to the USA.

Coronavirus lessons from the 1918-1919 Spanish flu

As the threat of additional community spreading of the coronavirus in the US grows, at least some people are recommending large-scale quarantines in American cities. There is precedent for this with the 1918-1919 Spanish flu and evidence that it was effective at curbing fatalities. Cities like St. Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and San Francisco implemented strict quarantines early during the spread of infections and experienced lower fatality rates than cities that waited to impose quarantines. The quarantine in St. Louis was particularly notable because it was one of the top ten largest cities in the US at that time. On October 5, 1918, St. Louis ordered a wide range of measures being proposed currently for mitigating the coronavirus such as closing schools and other public places and many businesses.

Coronavirus Outbreak: All the Latest Updates

Coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates:

Hopes that the coronavirus would be contained to China have vanished as the first case in sub-Saharan Africa was announced in Nigeria, while number of infections continue to grow in Europe pounding stock markets amid fears of a global recession.

On Friday, the US State Department raised its alert level for Italy, warning Americans to reconsider travel due to the outbreak. "Many cases of COVID-19 have been associated with travel to or from mainland China or close contact with a travel-related case, but sustained community spread has been reported in Italy," the department added. Italy has reported 650 coronavirus cases and 17 deaths - the most in Europe from the epidemic that originated in China, which is by far the most affected country.

The US on Friday warned against non-essential travel to Italy, a top destination for US tourists, over the growing coronavirus epidemic. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention "recommends that travellers avoid all nonessential travel to Italy. There is limited access to adequate medical care in affected areas," it said in a statement.

In China - the epicentre of the deadly disease - the National Health Commission reported on Saturday at least 47 new coronavirus deaths, bringing to 2,835 the number of fatalities nationwide. >There were also 427 new infections, up from 327 the previous day, pushing the confirmed cases in mainland China so far to 79,251, and more than 83,000 worldwide. Of the total number of deaths, at least 45 were from Hubei, the epicentre of the outbreak. Of the 45 deaths in Hubei, 37 were from the city of Wuhan.

The US state of California has confirmed a second case of coronavirus. "Now we have a case who did not recently travel or come in contact with anyone known to be ill," Sara Cody, the director of public health for Santa Clara County, near San Francisco, told reporters. She said the second patient is an adult woman who is being treated at a hospital.

Two South Africans on board the quarantined Diamond Princess cruise ship have tested positive for the coronavirus, according to a state-run medical institute. "We confirm that these citizens are currently being treated in Japan and are in good care," said a statement by the National Institute for Communicable Diseases.

Three Confirmed Cases of Corona Virus in Washington State

Washington State Department of Health reports there are now three confirmed cases of Coronavirus inside the state: https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus with 1 case in King County and 2 cases in Snohomish County. Seattle is inside King County and Snohomish is just north of King.

ABC reports that the infections are of unknown origin and that more potential cases exist in the bordering state of Oregon.

A second case of COVID-19 with an unknown origin was identified in Santa Clara county, California on Friday, and two other potential cases of unknown origin were identified in Oregon and Washington state.

NPR calls Seattle the first confirmed case of Corona virus in the US:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the CDC, has reported the first case in the United States of a new and deadly coronavirus. A resident of Washington state in the Seattle area is infected. The man had traveled to central China to the city of Wuhan, where the virus was first discovered. It has killed at least 17 people, and scientists now say humans can transmit the virus to one another. And as Will Stone from member station KNKX in Seattle reports, officials in Washington state are trying to prevent the spread of the virus, and also projecting calm.

My own analysis indicates that the symptom profile has changed as well from flu like symptoms to mild flu like symptoms or mild cold like symptoms and more specifically that fever is not mandatory any longer but I am not able to find sources reliable enough to include in a submission.

Three More People Test Positive in England

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51684624

Three more people from England have tested positive for coronavirus, taking the total number of UK cases to 23.

Two of the patients had recently returned from Italy, while the other had come back from Asia, chief medical officer Prof Chris Whitty said.

The cases are from Gloucestershire, Hertfordshire and Berkshire.

It comes as health officials try to discover how a man from Surrey caught the virus, after he became the first person to be infected within the UK.

The man, who is being treated at Guy's and St Thomas' Hospital in central London, had not been abroad recently - unlike the other cases in the UK.

[...] Ten more cases of the virus in the UK in just over two days might raise eyebrows, but health officials say all but one can be easily explained because the patients have travelled from the most affected countries, including Northern Italy and Iran.

Since the first UK cases were confirmed in York - two Chinese nationals - positive tests have been recorded in the south of England, Derbyshire, south Wales and Northern Ireland.

Government's Mixed Messages On Coronavirus Are Dangerous: Experts

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

“It’s really important for the U.S. government to be speaking with one common voice about these issues right now,” Tom Inglesby, an infectious diseases physician and director of the Center for Health Security of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, tells STAT

That’s not happening. On Tuesday (January 25), a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) official announced that COVID-19 could start spreading at the community level in the US shortly and that if the outbreak did hit the states, there could be “severe” disruptions to daily life. The next day, President Donald Trump held an evening press conference in which he said he didn’t think an outbreak in the US is inevitable. “I don’t think it’s inevitable because we’re doing a really good job in terms of maintaining borders and turning—in terms of letting people in, in terms of checking people,” he told reporters. He did not mention a new disease case reported the same day in California that couldn’t be accounted for by foreign travel or contact with someone known to be infected.

In the same press conference, Trump contradicted his own health officials. He predicted that there might be just one or two more people who report being infected in the next short period of time, yet, minutes later, Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar and CDC Principal Deputy Director Anne Schuchat both said that they expected the number of infections to grow. There are currently 60 reported cases of COVID-19 in the US. 

Earlier in February, Trump also said the spread of the virus could dissipate by April when the weather warms. While some viruses, such as the flu, don’t spread as easily in higher temperatures, it is not clear SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, is one of them. Government officials saying that the coronavirus outbreak is just like the flu isn’t entirely accurate, notes Ronald Klain, who oversaw the Ebola response in President Barack Obama’s administration. He responded to comments Tuesday by Chad Wolf, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, in testimony before Congress. “The responsible answer [to whether the outbreak is like the flu] is ‘we don’t know yet,’” Klain said.

“Americans need facts and science—not reassurance that all will be well. The presidential press conference on the coronavirus pandemic was, sadly, a disappointment,” Arthur Caplan, a bioethicist at NYU Langone Health, says in a statement emailed to The Scientist.

Disagreement between the State Department and CDC about the decision to fly home 14 Americans infected with SARS-CoV-2 also led to questions about who was leading the effort to contain the disease in the US. The CDC recommended that the patients not be flown home from Tokyo after leaving quarantine on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, but the State Department overruled the recommendation, according to The Washington Post. 

Government messaging may become more consistent, as President Trump announced Wednesday (January 26) that Vice President Mike Pence would be coordinating the response to the disease threat going forward. Now, government health officials and scientists are required to coordinate any statements and public appearances with Pence’s office, officials tell The New York Times reports. That includes Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. 


Original Submission #1Original Submission #2Original Submission #3Original Submission #4Original Submission #5Original Submission #6

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WHO Director-General's Opening Remarks at the Media Briefing on COVID-19 - 24 February 2020

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We're encouraged by the continued decline in cases in China.

Earlier today the WHO-China joint mission concluded its visit and delivered its report.

[...] The team has made a range of findings about the transmissibility of the virus, the severity of disease and the impact of the measures taken.

They found that the epidemic peaked and plateaued between the 23rd of January and the 2nd of February, and has been declining steadily since then.

They have found that there has been no significant change in the DNA of the virus.

They found that the fatality rate is between 2% and 4% in Wuhan, and 0.7% outside Wuhan.

They found that for people with mild disease, recovery time is about two weeks, while people with severe or critical disease recover within three to six weeks.

The team also estimate that the measures taken in China have averted a significant number of cases.

The report contains a wealth of other information, highlights questions for which we still don't have answers, and includes 22 recommendations.

[...] But the key message that should give all countries hope, courage and confidence is that this virus can be contained.

[...] The sudden increases of cases in Italy, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Republic of Korea are deeply concerning.

There's a lot of speculation about whether these increases mean that this epidemic has now become a pandemic.

CoronaVirus (SARS-CoV-2) Roundup 2020-03-12 93 comments

Even though it has only been a short while since our last round-up there are 22 separate stories merged into this round-up. Many report duplicate news but, nevertheless, we have tried to distill the important elements of each submission.

Firstly, there is some confusion regarding the actual names that are reported for the virus, the disease that it causes, and names frequently seen in media reporting. From https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0695-z:

The present outbreak of a coronavirus-associated acute respiratory disease called coronavirus disease 19 (COVID-19) is the third documented spillover of an animal coronavirus to humans in only two decades that has resulted in a major epidemic. The Coronaviridae Study Group (CSG) of the International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses, which is responsible for developing the classification of viruses and taxon nomenclature of the family Coronaviridae, has assessed the placement of the human pathogen, tentatively named 2019-nCoV, within the Coronaviridae. Based on phylogeny, taxonomy and established practice, the CSG recognizes this virus as forming a sister clade to the prototype human and bat severe acute respiratory syndrome coronaviruses (SARS-CoVs) of the species Severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus, and designates it as SARS-CoV-2.

In order to facilitate communication, the CSG proposes to use the following naming convention for individual isolates: SARS-CoV-2/host/location/isolate/date. While the full spectrum of clinical manifestations associated with SARS-CoV-2 infections in humans remains to be determined, the independent zoonotic transmission of SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 highlights the need for studying viruses at the species level to complement research focused on individual pathogenic viruses of immediate significance. This will improve our understanding of virus–host interactions in an ever-changing environment and enhance our preparedness for future outbreaks.

There is much more information at the link provided.

Secondly, as this is a fusion of stories received over the last week or so take all quoted figures of casualties as possibly out-of-date. At the time of merging these stories (12 Mar 20) there have been 127,863 confirmed cases world-wide resulting in 4,717 deaths. 68,309 people have already recovered with the remainder either in self-imposed or advisory isolation, in basic hospital care and a relatively small number in critical care. The pandemic has affected 116 countries/regions. Source: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 - a graphical display produced by Johns Hopkins University (JHU).

Many countries have taken emergency measures to restrict travel or large gatherings of people. As this is a very fluid situation we suggest you refer to the media of any specific country in which you have an interest. President Trump has banned transatlantic air travel from countries in mainland Europe to the USA from Friday 2020-03-13 at 23:59 (no timezone stated) for a period initially of 30 days, and air travel within Europe is also significantly disrupted.

2020-03-30 Coronavirus (COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2) Story Roundup 108 comments

This story is a merge of 30 story submissions. Given that it was well over 17,000 words of original source material (excluding HTML markup!), a great deal of pruning was performed to get it to a manageable size. I strongly encourage folks to read the linked articles for more information.

For latest statistics, and finer granularity, see https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/.

As of 20200330_151936 UTC, it reported these world-wide totals:

  • Coronavirus Cases: 743,081
  • Deaths: 35,347
  • Recovered: 157,046
  • Active Cases:
    • 550,688 (Currently Infected Patients)
    • 522,206 (95%) in Mild Condition
    • 28,482 (5%) Serious or Critical
  • Closed Cases:
    • 192,393 Cases which had an outcome
    • 157,046 (82%) Recovered / Discharged
    • 35,347 (18%) Deaths

Stories appear below the fold.

2020-06-15 Roundup of COVID-19 (SARS-CoV2, Coronavirus) Stories 153 comments

World-wide data as of: 20200615_140637 UTC:

total_count 8,028,325
closed_count 4,584,407
closed_deaths_count 436,277
closed_deaths_percent (10%)
closed_recovered_count 4,148,130
closed_recovered_percent (90%)
active_count 3,443,918
active_mild_count 3,389,380
active_mild_percent (98%)
active_serious_count 54,538
active_serious_percent (2%)
total_deaths 436,277

2020-03-25 Coronavirus (COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2) Story Roundup 85 comments

This story presents a roundup of a selection of our COVID-19, SARS-Cov-2, coronavirus story submissions. Some stories have been omitted because they were a duplicate, outdated, superseded, and sometimes just as a matter of keeping the size of these roundups managable. etc. (Before thinning, this story contained over 16,500 words (excluding HTML markup) and that excluded what is contained in this introduction.

If you are not interested in this coverage, then please ignore this story; another story will appear presently. Otherwise, please see the rest of the story below the fold:

SoylentNews Community -- How has SAR-CoV-2 (Coronavirus) / COVID-19 Affected You? 325 comments

A lot has already happened this year. SARS-CoV-2 (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2) which can cause COVID-19 (COronaVIrus Disease 2019) has been making headlines shortly after it was first reported. The first cases were reported to WHO (World Health Organization) on 2019-12-31. The virus spread. It began as an epidemic in China . The world watched apprehensively. Reports surfaced of cases in other countries and the the apprehension grew. For many folk, it turned to fear when it was upgraded to a pandemic: WHO Director-General's opening remarks at the media briefing on COVID-19 - 11 March 2020: "We have therefore made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic."

We have seen increasing efforts to stem the spread of the disease. Efforts have run the gamut. Closing of borders. Cancellation of sporting events. Conferences cancelled. Churches and other places of worship also closed. Schools closed. Panic buying of household goods and supplies. Supply chain disruptions affecting manufacturers. Restaurant, bars, and other such establishments closed. Work-from-home policies established and enacted.

The changes have been many, widespread, and continuing.

Reading about all the ways that "other people" have been affected is one thing. It seems different, somehow, when it hits closer to home and affects us directly. With many of our usual social activities curtailed or cancelled, it is easy to begin isolating and lose perspective. SoylentNews arose from a troubled period (the SlashCott) and a community has formed from that challenging period.

How have you been affected? Have you been infected? Had a family member or friend who was? Helped neighbors who are struggling? Hunkering down and isolating? (In a basement is optional.) Are you suddenly working from home and finding it challenging to manage your time? Still working on site, but now have a faster commute due to all the other people staying home? Catching up on watching TV shows? Reading more SoylentNews? How has your life changed?

From a somewhat different perspective, how have others helped you to cope... and how have you been able to help others? One of the potential impacts of social distancing is isolation and depression. I count myself fortunate, indeed, to have served this site for over 6 years and for all the people I have gotten to know, here. For those who may not be aware, SoylentNews has its own IRC (Internet Relay Chat) server. Feel free to drop in to #Soylent and just say "Hi!"

Social distancing is permanent when you're dead. So, practice good hygiene and stay safe.

Previously (oldest first):
China Battles Coronavirus Outbreak: All the Latest Updates
2019-nCoV Coronavirus Story Roundup
Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Roundup
Coronavirus Roundup
Coronavirus Roundup (Feb. 17)
Roundup of Stories about the SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus and COVID-19 Disease
COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2 - CoronaVirus) Roundup
CoronaVirus (SARS-CoV-2) Roundup 2020-03-12
Working from Home: Lessons Learned Over 20 Years


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  • (Score: 1, Troll) by fustakrakich on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:46AM (14 children)

    by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:46AM (#964749) Journal

    Government gonna cover it?

    --
    Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:18AM (12 children)

      by edIII (791) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:18AM (#964796)

      Please. It's more than a problem with who is going to cover it. Social services were never adequately funded in the first place, and it's arguable whether or not they were setup to fail.

      There are no systems in place big enough right now to handle what is going to happen. Not to mention, so many of the people that will be hit the hardest, don't have access to medical care anyways. When this happens, I don't think anybody is going to care about who has money. The hospital beds will be filled, various community shelters would need to be converted. People will do what that have to do, and if it doesn't, it will be mass panic, chaos, confusion, and more than likely war. No better time to try and start the race war, then when all social services, as well as city services start breaking down. Local governments will be desperate to enact whatever measures they can to take care of the infected, because to do otherwise, is actual insanity. Money is quite secondary. However, because money isn't secondary in healthcare in this country, you will have infected working their jobs in Amazon warehouses because they can't afford to not meet quota. We have the perfect breeding grounds for this virus, and the only way to fight it is containment and detection.

      None of that matters because we don't have testing kits. Not nearly enough for what we need, and not soon enough, because we needed it yesterday. We're going to need not only the testing kits, but the hospital beds, and the ventilators. Money cannot magically make that stuff appear in the numbers that we would need if a pandemic happens. Put quite simply, our medical coverage is wholly inadequate, because it really only covers the rich adequately. Even then, it's questionable as to whether or not we would've had that many hospital beds in a perfect ideal single payer world either. We're wholly unprepared for this, at every level. It's been a slow decline, and now we need to deal with the consequences of our massive inefficiencies.

      All of the above doesn't matter, because government has been systematically destroyed. Anyone who dares question the Emperor, is an evil Never-Trumper, and the entire agenda is to overturn the will of the voters in 2016. The Emperor says nothing is wrong, The Emperor says its a hoax, The Emperor says everything is going to be handled.

      This comes down to the "President", and the government he is running. The Left hand doesn't know what the fuck the Right hand is doing, and they don't agree for shit. Except it's not a fucking weather event this time, but scientists with the CDC giving us a reality check, while the Kool-Aid Brigade in Washington pulls a Leslie Nielson standing in front of the exploding fireworks factory... "Nothing to see here folks! Move Along! Everything is fine! Just a Lefist-Liberal whacked out hoax! Go about your business!". Good ol' Rush Limbaugh says it's no worse than the common cold people! The Trumper that told me that, followed it up with, "These people are full of shit. Nobody knows they're doing". That's a sign of the apocalypse if anything, a Trumper and a Never Trumper agreeing on something against the will of the Emperor.

      There's a whistleblower complaint being silenced right now, as political enemies of the "President", for reporting that the people going in to handle quarantine patients coming back into the US were not properly briefed, equipped, trained, and were a danger to themselves and others. Those in charge ignored them, and these workers were transferred back home on public air transportation, even though they had face to face contact with refugees from Diamond Prinncess. Trump puppet at the top tells Democrats in Congress that nothing is going on, even though he received the complaint. It's not politically convenient for this "President" to admit there is a problem, so there isn't a problem as far as government is concerned. They're not going to have a reality check and pivot back fast enough to prevent what's coming next.

      1. They don't know what they're doing
      2. They can't admit there is a problem
      3. They blame the problem on political enemies
      4. They paint all news regarding it as inaccurate hoaxes designed to interfere with the election
      5. They put a man in charge, that for his own beliefs and reasons, caused a pandemic in his own state, that is widely recognized as 90% preventable.
      6. They tell us a wall is good at keeping out viruses from our country
      7. They can't figure out how to transfer testing kits from Alabama to Nebraska, or to anywhere else in the country that needs it

      That's the short list. Buckle up people, because they're is nobody at the wheel to handle it, not enough gas to get us away. Stock Market is telling us the truth, because those analysts know what is coming down the supply chains in terms of disruption. China already gave a pretty bleak report.

      If you gotta a place to go in the middle of nowhere, this is probably the best time. I think this is a temporary island of stability, the calm before the storm. With the incubation rate, and new cases being "community", it's a matter of time before hospital beds get filled. That point, it's all about containment and detection. We're not setup for that.

      Get prepared, get supplies, and get ready to bunker down in place.

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:58AM (4 children)

        by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:58AM (#964803) Homepage Journal

        Good ol' Rush Limbaugh says it's no worse than the common cold people! The Trumper that told me that, followed it up with, "These people are full of shit. Nobody knows they're doing". That's a sign of the apocalypse if anything, a Trumper and a Never Trumper agreeing on something against the will of the Emperor.

        I think this is a good thing at least if I read it right. It mirrors my experiences talking with people about this. Yesterday in a media format that is known to be overwhelmingly conservative I heard two people talking to each other and they started defending Trump in outlandish ways. I thought to myself "why the hell would anyone do that." To my great surprise many people jumped in and started holding Trump accountable. There was even some yield with the Trump supporters.

        I'm pretty sure most people know he is full of crap.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:34PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:34PM (#964893)

          clueless boomer here, what the heck do you mean by:
          > ...media format that is known to be overwhelmingly conservative...

          Would that be talk radio? If so, why not say so explicitly?

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:56PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:56PM (#965019)

            HAM radio

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:15PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:15PM (#964959)

          Our "very stable genius" couldn't even get the gender of the first fatality correct. As for Rush, remind me to send him a box of his favorite cigars.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:41PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:41PM (#965090)

          Rush Limbaugh will probably be dead by the end of the month. If he catches COVID-19 on top of his stage-4 lung cancer he's a goner.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:05AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:05AM (#964840)

        That scientist has ulterior motives. Her brother is Rod Rosenstein, who undermined the Trump administration when he was the Deputy Attorney General.

        https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/02/25/odd-coincidence-rogue-cdc-official-pushing-coronavirus-panic-button-is-rod-rosensteins-sister/ [theconservativetreehouse.com]

        I'm just not going to listen to Trump haters who are actively trying to make the virus into a political issue to attack Trump. They are the least trustworthy source of information.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @01:57PM (2 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @01:57PM (#964874) Journal

          You shouldn't take the word of Trump supporters either. Being a supporter or hater of Trump gives nobody any expertise in virus containment and protection.

          How about we listen to the scientific bodies that are responsible in their respective countries for providing expert advice?

          Keep politics out of this - we need people who are qualified in the subject no matter who they voted for.

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:48PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:48PM (#965015)

            What? Those experts who depend on government funding for their jobs? They have a vested interest in keeping everyone dependent on them and maintaining government power. This is all just a false flag Big Disease operation to spread the vaccinations which will sterilize 90% of the population, and these so-called experts are glad to go along to get more tax funded checks!!!

            For all you "rational" people out there I have just one thing for you - /crazy if that wasn't obvious by now

            • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @12:43AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @12:43AM (#965155)

              Alex Jones is that you?

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:54PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:54PM (#964900)

        There are no systems in place big enough right now to handle what is going to happen.

        !Remind me in 1 year

        Let's see how bad things actually get.

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:30PM (1 child)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:30PM (#964997) Journal

        There are no systems in place big enough right now to handle what is going to happen.

        That much paranoia out there, eh? From the moderation it got, I guess I never should have brought it up.

        --
        Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @03:50AM

          by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @03:50AM (#965270)

          Wow. I've been called paranoid before. 20 years ago talking about surveillance and encryption. I'm used to it. The data wasn't there yet to back me up. Took a couple of forced disclosures by patriots.

          This time though, you don't have to be paranoid to believe the experts. It's not paranoia to read the numbers, understand how it propagates, factor in our workforce and health care systems, and see that it's highly likely this could result in a very large number of cases very quickly.

          Just how many hospital beds and ventilators do you think we have? That's just two pieces of equipment though, so how many rooms do you think we have that are fully equipped with everything needed to perform the quality of medical care required to achieve recovery outcomes reported by other countries? How many more could we create in 10 days?

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Monday March 02 2020, @04:41PM

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 02 2020, @04:41PM (#965545) Journal

      Government gonna cover it?

      If you are rich enough, yes.

      --
      You can not have fun on the weak days but you can on the weakened.
  • (Score: 2, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:54AM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:54AM (#964752)

    Everyone overreact, shut down businesses, avoid contact with anyone, and mod this comment -1!

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:36AM (13 children)

      by edIII (791) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:36AM (#964799)

      Ah yes, overreaction. Even though we have the CDC, and world wide officials, saying "when" not "if". Most reasonable people, that don't see political enemies in all speech against them, are saying this is the time for containment and detection.

      But we shouldn't overreact right? It's not like we don't have the testing kits or the political will to see a problem that very clearly exists? It's not like there hasn't been "community" cases in a country where the working class have no medical paid leave right?

      Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass and hoping the problem goes away is another.

      This ISN'T THE FLU. That's the first thing you should educate yourself on. Different mortality rates, affects respiratory systems differently, is asymptomatic in many carriers, and has a long incubation window (2 weeks). Meaning, a strong dude in his 30's, or according to what we know, more than likely a woman, will have the sniffles and some body aches getting on the plane. Her primary may not diagnose her right, because the CDC is still pushing advisories or some shit. That's if she goes at all, and instead does what so many of us do, and toughs the shit out. You get on the plane, you go to work, and you spread through the community, and across states, until you are found, the virus is detected, and you're contained.

      At one level, you're entirely correct. Why overreact, when all the science says that only upwards of 2-3 million people in the US would die from it. Older people being the highest mortality, followed by weakened individuals. Fair enough.

      Although....... surely there are enough resources to handle that many people getting sick at once right? All of those people that will live through it, because they had the exact same level of care that those recovered already received? Best country in the world can surely do that right? Any decent God fearing American shouldn't be afraid at all. Jesus and Capitalism have their back, and all that power from campaign rallies will magically provide all of that hospital equipment out of fairy dust. We'll make the fairies pay for it too! This country is just so gosh darned UNIFIED at the moment, with this unshakable feeling that we're all in it together, and by God and the Baby Jesus, we can all pull together, organize, and build hospitals in 10 days. No selfishness or profiteering anywhere the eye can see, and warm fuzzies float through the air....

      Yeah, just what is the proper level of reaction here, when millions laugh about have a reaction at all? When everyone else in the world is saying to get prepared and ready, but you feel it's a joke? :)

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:07AM (4 children)

        by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:07AM (#964805) Homepage Journal

        At one level, you're entirely correct. Why overreact, when all the science says that only upwards of 2-3 million people in the US would die from it. Older people being the highest mortality, followed by weakened individuals. Fair enough.

        I've had people talk me down from an opinion like this but I never really got to the bottom of it. What kind of assumptions do we need to get to that value? That's 1% of the population of the United States that's dead. Given the reported death rate of 1% to 3% that's anywhere from everyone in the US to 1/3rd of the US that gets infected. I've been told by knowledgeable though not expert people that we are not yet with statistics even close to Spanish Flu and the Spanish Flu knocked out about 2% of the planet after it infected 27% of it.

        I've got my reasons to think we are sitting at something like that kind of infection rate but it is not the reported values by means. At least as far as I can tell. Can you please elucidate?

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:46AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:46AM (#964817)

          Odds are, Knowledge_Troll is going to get infected, and die. Mostly because of underlying conditions, especially a paranoiac fear of contracting the Crown Virus, and dying. Something of a self-fulfulling hypochondriac prediction, if you know what I mean. So, the odds are, oh, I dunno, 57-84% that he contracts, and then, using Bayesian probablity, if he contracts the probability of his croaking is 99.999%. Wash your hands, Troll, though I know that is not normal Troll behavior. And Stop Posting Rapid Panic and Oh My God, we are ALL GoINg to DIE posts to SN. We, and Mike Pence, will prey on you.

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @06:19AM (2 children)

          by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @06:19AM (#965362)

          What the numbers are telling us is that this could widely infect people. More than a 1/3rd could get it, because of incubation rates, and that the young and healthy can be asymptomatic in some cases, and could experience mild symptoms in most cases. It's very problematic for older people, and those with compromised immune or respiratory systems. Certain pre-existing conditions exacerbate the disease, and raise the mortality rate.

          If there aren't school and factory shutdowns to verify containment, which requires detection, the odds of community spread are so much higher. It will be in the community longer before detection and containment can stop its spread. Right now, at this time, there is community spread in Northern California for sure. The infected was not in China, or out of the country, and they can't find any connection back to an infected person at all. That's why it's community spread case, which means it IS someplace in the community where it could very well be infecting others. I don't believe that's the only instance of community spread, and I've heard today there was an entire senior center, plus staff, that has been confirmed to have it. So at least 20 new cases today alone, and I've not checked any news sources to verify that. It's reasonable to believe that several major cities have already progressed to community spread, which means stopping it is unlikely. Containment is the only option, and you have to be that much more aggressive in containing and detecting new cases. That will require manpower, trained workers, proper equipment, and adequate management and oversight.

          Only specific cleansers can handle it too. 70% alcohol at the minimum (I've also heard 60), and stuff with chloride at the end, or peroxide based cleansers are shown to be ineffective. A lot of the regular cleansers out there, including the big containers of what looks like Clorox wipes, contain active ingredients not know to be effective against this virus. In other words, regular cleaning measures aren't entirely effective, and many cheap hand sanitizes may not work. They don't have active ingredients shown to be effective.

          I'm hearing that the actual number of infected could allow for a large number needing medical care, intubation, ventilation, .etc. Those percentages can very well be against most of our working population, so the infected could easily be more than 2-3 million. Of those, how many will need specific levels of care to enjoy the recovery outcomes seen in China and elsewhere? Of those infected, how many are in the vulnerable groups and more likely to die? This is further exacerbated by the large number of uninsured and underinsured citizens in the US, combined with the lack of proper paid medical leave for nearly 30 million Americans? (IIRC) It's a large number, and represents a considerable amount of our workforce. That workforce is fighting for living wages, experiencing material deprivation from low wages, and lacks pretty much any safety net whatsoever. No safety nets, socialized medicine, and high levels of duress, combine to keep infected workers at their jobs until symptoms prevent that from continuing. Containment is very difficult when the worker is choosing between homelessness, and a disease they know they're likely to personally beat.

          I believe the numbers of dead could be higher than expected, if we have a sudden massive increase in cases, less than adequate resources and care provided to those cases, and detection and containment measures that simply come to late. This virus sounds like it has the attributes to widely spread in a sudden fashion among healthy looking people, and then in turn, spread to our most vulnerable populations through community spread.

          Lastly, we are not China. We're not making that many new isolation wards with advanced tech in 10 days, and with our levels of inefficiency (as profitable as they are to some), we will not be agile enough to accomplish the same results that China did. There are serious questions as to whether we have enough ventilators, beds, and isolation wards to serve all of those that might be infected, and hit hard enough to require hospitalization.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday March 02 2020, @01:12PM (1 child)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 02 2020, @01:12PM (#965448) Homepage Journal

            Just calm down. I suppose I'm part of the higher risk group. Nothing to get terribly excited about, really. Either I'm going to get it, or I'm not. Either it will kill me, or it won't. And, life will go on, with or without me.

            It's just the numbers that are scaring everyone. A couple million die, all at once? Well, not at once, but spread out over just a few months, right?

            There are enough people to just pick up the pieces and go on. Stop worrying. And, invest in funeral homes now, before the rush.

            --
            There is a supply side shortage of pronouns. You will take whatever you are offered.
            • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday March 03 2020, @02:36AM

              by edIII (791) on Tuesday March 03 2020, @02:36AM (#965816)

              LOL. You've genuinely made me laugh. I love your big picturism. It's just unfortunate when more could've been done. I'd miss you.

              It's just the numbers that are scaring everyone.

              This still gives me the giggles. I mean, no kidding, man. It's the numbers that scare people?

              You're right, it's all the numbers together that really do scare me. I'm not worried about myself though. Between me and all of my friends at my age, it's about our parents.

              --
              Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:07PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:07PM (#964906)

        when all the science says that only upwards of 2-3 million people in the US would die from it.

        So, peeling back some layers on that sound-bite, "all the science" is referring to science which assumes an unrestricted saturation infection of the entire population with minimal interventional care.

        Spread will be restricted, it's not going to hit the entire population at one time.

        https://www.google.com/search?q=us+hospital+capacity&oq=us+hospital+capacity [google.com]

        Those 900,000+ staffed hospital beds don't include de-facto healthcare settings like retirement homes where many of the vulnerable already live, many more get in-home healthcare. As pitiful as medicare/medicaid is, the elderly do get a significant level of care in-situ, and the providers are going to be heavily asymptomatic, and lots of them live for overtime pay.

        just what is the proper level of reaction here

        Awareness, preparedness, increased willingness to get tested and step out of society while it runs its course. Overdramatizing and spreading fear and overreaction is counterproductive, and leads to a large number of people ignoring the histrionics altogether, if not this time then next time when it might be even more important to have a real response.

        Part of the U.S. cultural problem that I see is centered around optimization - everybody and everything attempting to run at 99.999%+ capacity, all the time. If we were more willing to accept 80% as a normal, and healthy, operating point - we'd have that extra 20% to give in a crisis. In reality, we do run far below 100%, but we're not willing to admit it.

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DrkShadow on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:38PM (6 children)

        by DrkShadow (1404) on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:38PM (#964944)

        Isn't this exactly what was said about Swine Flu?

        Now we have Zika too, something that provoked a similar reaction, but has already come-and-gone.

        This disease will now be with humanity for the rest of ever. There is nothing that we will be able to do to eradicate this virus from the human population -- so why are we quarantining entire populations _now_ when we're not going to do that _later_? At best we're buying ourselves time to create tools to identify the virus and symptoms, disseminate information to doctors on how to advise patients, and we'll tell them to do the same thing any time they have the flu: Go home, wash your hands, get bed rest, watch out for X and Y symptoms, and come back if things worsen.

        The reaction is the same. The health outcomes will be the same. We will not, as a people, live in bubbles, or wash our hands generally any more than before. We will continue on. (Until then, lets shut everything down stop shipping and flights work from home avoid conferences and population centers interrupt the economy tell everyone to go home because someone somewhere else is sick!)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:14PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:14PM (#965118)

          Zika is not "come-and-gone" and birth defects from it are factored into health system forecasts.

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @03:43AM (4 children)

          by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @03:43AM (#965264)

          No, this is not the same. What you're not factoring in, is that the health care system will be overwhelmed. So the mortality rate is going to adjust to factor in lack of proper care. The ignorance regarding the comparisons to the flu are fucking amazing, when you have scientists directly saying (even above), "this is not like the flu". It has several attributes that make it far more likely to spread longer and faster. Part of that, is a low mortality.

          The reaction is NOT THE SAME. The health outcomes will NOT BE THE SAME. THIS IS NOT THE FLU.

          Your argument was parroted by business interests nearly 100 years ago. The economy is already disrupted. What do you think will happen? Slowdown from China is already affecting things, and when half your workforce is down with it, you will have impacted economies. Not getting around that just because of ignorant bravado, and greed's desire for more profit. A workforce will no paid medical leave, will spread it to the entire workforce in short order.

          There is going to be a few week period in which a large amount of productivity will be gone. Inevitable at this point.

          What you're missing is analogy to help you. You think this is the flu, or a regular wave on the ocean. Ships can deal with regular waves, and indeed rough seas. What this virus can do is hit so many, so fast, and some so much harder, that the factors all contribute to rogue wave action. Those waves have taken out the largest ships on the ocean, and severely damaged others.

          interrupt the economy tell everyone to go home because someone somewhere else is sick!

          That's just plain ignorant and part of the problem. Smartest people in the world right now dealing with this, advise two things explicitly. Detection & Containment. Allowing the plane flights to continue, or allowing many thing to continue as normal, is not inline with the goal of containment.

          You know why China is likely to survive? No Chinese person has been successful with ignorant arguments like yours, and the Chinese government has enough strength over the people to perform containment.

          We don't have any of that unity, or capabilities. Just as you've proved, we cannot even get containment going because people are going with ignorance, luck, and sticking their heads in the sand. Which is why, it is highly likely, that cases will explode so fast that our systems are simply overwhelmed. Who knows what that will really do.

          A very bruised economy is about the best case scenario right now, and the worst is 2-3 million dead based on the mortality rate, and the fact the ignorance will help this thing spread faster than wildfire.

          While we're going back and forth, and entire senior center tested positive for the virus.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday March 02 2020, @01:41PM (3 children)

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday March 02 2020, @01:41PM (#965458) Journal

            Ed, you do need to calm down. We already handled an actual Ebola outbreak, which as a hemorrhagic fever is far worse than this bugger.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
            • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @07:46PM (2 children)

              by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @07:46PM (#965635)

              My apologies, but that's just ignorant. You can't compare this to Ebola or hemorrhagic fever. It's apples and oranges, and a very ignorant comparison that can give you a false sense of confidence.

              Ebola, would actually be better. Shows symptoms much faster.

              It's because this thing is mild enough for so many, that it's dangerous. It's how it can spread, which comes down to the numbers, and those don't lie. Precisely due to its nature, it has a much better ability than Ebola or something "far worse", to travel through populations. This one is different, because it has such a dramatically different effect in older and vulnerable populations.

              This is not the flu, it's not comparable to Ebola, and intelligence dictates that you evaluate this bug on its own. Many are saying to evaluate it without Hubei data, because their situation was different and we shouldn't expect the same outcomes.

              Incorrectly comparing this to Ebola isn't going to bring calm to anyone with two brain cells that can read charts and graphs.

              --
              Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
              • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday March 03 2020, @05:23AM (1 child)

                by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday March 03 2020, @05:23AM (#965867) Journal

                Technically, Ed, I wasn't comparing Corona virus with Ebola, I was contrasting them. The former is not very lethal, the latter is quite lethal (anything that dissolves the internal organs deserves to be feared). Yet for the greater lethality of Ebola and its ease in spreading, we were able to contain it. The long incubation time of Coronavirus will probably defeat containment, but thankfully it is not very lethal.

                And given that the lethality of Coronavirus is low, the greater danger seems to be the panic that nefarious parties are sowing. A lot of people are carried off by regular old flu every year, but for the most part people don't give in to hysteria about it. Like with flu it is wise to take precautions, and it is not to be pooh-poohed, but the world must roll on.

                --
                Washington DC delenda est.
                • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday March 03 2020, @08:08PM

                  by edIII (791) on Tuesday March 03 2020, @08:08PM (#966120)

                  You're not getting the main points of concern.

                  Last thing I will say is, is that the lethality is going to be directly related to the quality of medical care obtained. All of those recovery numbers include proper medical care. Factor in quality of care, and access to ICU equipped rooms, and as others have pointed out, we only have a fraction of what is needed according to the numbers.

                  It's not probably defeating containment in this country, it's we're not going to contain it. Political will isn't there, and people will not shut down productivity and schools for as long as they would need to be. Factor in our own socioeconomic bullshit into your equations. Which we can easily see in history, because those same arguments kept cities from reacting fast enough. It always takes a lot of deaths, that aren't good for political campaigns, before correct actions occur.

                  As we've learned nothing, and as this is a much more serious virus, there is room for some serious concern.

                  Good luck dude, and if your parents are still around, cherish the hell out of them right now. They're the ones in danger.

                  --
                  Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
  • (Score: 4, Informative) by legont on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:59AM (24 children)

    by legont (4179) on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:59AM (#964757)

    Active Cases 41,679 including 7,568 (18%) Serious or Critical
    Closed Cases 45,313 including 2,979 (7%) Deaths
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ [worldometers.info]
    Since we now have more closed cases than open, this 7% dead number is unlikely to go down unless more people with mild symptoms are tested.

    --
    "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:41AM (13 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:41AM (#964787)

      I disagree with your interpretation of the data. I think you've interpreted the data incorrectly and I don't share your pessimism at all. Here are a few issues and some additional commentary:

      1) It is widely believed that Iran is seriously underreporting the number of cases in the country. The deaths are being reported and in significant numbers, but the failure to properly report the number of cases skews the death rate.

      2) Many of those early cases are Hubei province. The death rate is significantly higher there than elsewhere in China. The large number of cases in that one province is almost certainly not representative of the death rate elsewhere. The disparity is due to the health care system in Hubei province being overwhelmed.

      3) The death rate on that site is still dropping. On February 27, the death rate from closed cases was 7.26%. On February 29, it's 6.57%. I don't see a table on the site showing the number of deaths and recoveries each day, but with a bit of math, I calculated the death rate among cases closed in the past week was around 2.55%. That number is still heavily influenced by Hubei province and the inflated death rate from Iran. It's worth noting that the death rate between February 15 and February 22 among closed cases was 8.7%. The week before that, the death rate among newly closed cases was 11.1%. Even the death rate for cases currently being closed has dropped a lot over the past week and is continuing to improve.

      4) The death rate absolutely should fall as better containment measures are hopefully implemented and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. A better understanding of the virus and perhaps early detection will improve the ability to treat it. Trials of treatments like remdisivir are expanding. If that drug or others are effective, that will also lower the death rate. Improved treatment probably contributes significantly to why the death rate among recently closed cases is dropping sharply.

      As you noted, we also really don't have a good idea how many patients contracted coronavirus, recovered, and were never counted at all. Improved detection probably contributes to why the death rate for recently closed cases has declined. A lot of recent deaths are still in Hubei province along with the recent totals coming from Iran.

      Although prior cases are informative, what matters is the chances of recovery in cases that will be closed in the future. In the past week, the recovery rate was 97.45%, not counting recoveries we don't know about. Provided the healthcare system isn't overwhelmed in your location, if you were to contract this virus in the future or even have a currently active case, your chances of recovery will probably be quite a bit better than 97.45%. Improved detection will probably increase the number of cases that we know result in recovery. If the screening expands and detection is earlier, when patients aren't as ill, it will probably allow treatments to be administered sooner in the infection cycle. At absolute worst, that wouldn't improve the recovery rate. More likely, earlier treatment will improve the recovery rate, though it isn't known to what degree.

      Even as the recovery rates improve, and I believe that trend will continue, that optimism shouldn't prevent us from enacting containment measures. For a virus that spreads widely, a lot percentage of critical cases with a massive number of infections can still overwhelm hospitals. If we take proper precautions and don't allow hospitals to become overcrowded, I see no reason that the recovery rate won't be quite a bit better than 97.45%.

      • (Score: 5, Funny) by driverless on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:04AM

        by driverless (4770) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:04AM (#964791)

        I disagree with your interpretation of the data.

        His interpretation of the data is intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to his newsletter.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:43AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:43AM (#964801)

        For your #2, it's likely that many people simply recovered before being diagnosed. Early on it wasn't well understood what was going on and the early reaction was not very constructive.

        Think of it this way : suppose you are a resident of Wuhan. Are you going to go to the government today and say "I had a sniffle two weeks ago, but now I'm fine, would you like to test me for coronavirus?" I certainly would not.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:31PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:31PM (#964922)

          They might also test you for spare kidneys...

      • (Score: 2) by edIII on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:48AM (1 child)

        by edIII (791) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:48AM (#964802)

        If we take proper precautions and don't allow hospitals to become overcrowded

        Check.

        The death rate absolutely should fall as better containment measures are hopefully implemented and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.

        Check.

        Trials of treatments like remdisivir are expanding. If that drug or others are effective, that will also lower the death rate. Improved treatment probably contributes significantly to why the death rate among recently closed cases is dropping sharply.

        Citation needed. Other sources, not ones political in nature, are saying that's optimistic to say remdisivir is an actual cure. Even in ideal conditions, necessary testing and production levels are a year away. We have a treatment for Ebola now, so optimism isn't unwarranted, but your time window is. Best estimates are we won't get it fast enough. To get the point where can direct a cure, we need the testing kits to perform the aforementioned detection and containment. We are not adequately supplied at this time, and the logistics to increase it, and ship our current supplies to where they need isn't forthcoming in the highly charged political environment.

        that optimism shouldn't prevent us from enacting containment measures.

        There is a difference between optimism, ignorance, and dangerous indifference. This virus is now political, and it's been determined that it's a political weapon aimed at the incumbent and far right politics.

        I disagree with your assessment of the social dynamics involved, and find you to be highly optimistic in terms of U.S preparedness to enact any of the reasonable measures called for, in the time windows they need to be performed in. That time window, btw, was yesterday. Whatever we do now is simply catching up with the problem.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:44AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:44AM (#964816)

          When I suggest that improved treatments were responsible for the lower death rate, that was a general statement and not just about remdesivir. Regarding it being promising, I'll cite Scientific American [scientificamerican.com], which discusses very preliminary tests involving SARS and MERS. Remdesivir wasn't effective at treating ebola and its efficacy against COVID-19 remains to be seen. Even without a proven antiviral drug, a better understanding of the virus and its effects should help doctors better treat the symptoms and manage the complications from the infection.

          Regarding my optimism, I was cautionary and emphasized the importance of limiting the burden on hospitals. I am not confident that the federal government will do enough. I submitted the portion of the story about the social distancing during the Spanish flu pandemic. while I didn't directly say this in my summary, the articles linked discuss why some cities implemented those measures sooner than others. Political disputes, lack of agreement between doctors and political leaders, and objections from local businesses delayed action in some cities. The cities that act later had much higher death rates than those that implemented social distancing policies sooner. As with a century ago, much of the mitigation will have to come from state and local authorities. The federal government will still have to provide many of the necessary resources, but it will be up to states, counties, and cities to directly implement many of the mitigation strategies. I am hopeful because the overall role of the federal government is limited and that perhaps state and local authorities will be more willing to take the necessary steps.

      • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:10PM (6 children)

        by legont (4179) on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:10PM (#964956)

        I have many objection to this optimistic view, but let me point one. The US currently has under a million hospital beds - 0.3% of the population. The number of serious and critical cases is at 18%. Therefore, if we kick everybody out of hospitals, we could handle 1.5% infection rate. Now, I don't know how many of the beds have lung ventilation machines, but I'd be surprise if more than 10%. Hence the US can handle no more than 0.15% infection rate at any given point.
        Make no mistake - if we can't stop infections, it will be ugly - way worse than 1918 flu.

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:16PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:16PM (#964991)

          Yes, if we don't act to stop the spread of infections, this can easily overwhelm the hospital system here. We'll be stuck trying to create makeshift hospitals here, just like in Wuhan. The reason I'm hopeful is that social distancing would be implemented by state and local authorities rather than at the federal level. Even as the federal government seems unable to make the right decisions, one can hope that state and local authorities aren't paralyzed by the same political infighting and incompetence.

          Estimates this morning suggest that the virus has been circulating for six weeks in Washington State. That was before travel restrictions were implemented. It was also around the time that students would have been returning from China for the start of the new semester. I don't remember where i saw it, but I read an analysis estimating something like 3-10 people probably were infected with coronavirus and came to the US prior to the travel restrictions. If there are a lot more unreported cases, it may mean that infections are far more widespread than we know about. That could presumably push the 3-10 number considerably higher. My point about college campuses and universities is that they're distributed throughout the US. There may not be anything special about Washington State in this regard. It may be widespread throughout the US right now and we just don't know it. An analysis this morning suggested anywhere from 150-1500 people in Washington State are infected. There may well be other outbreaks that we just don't know about yet but are of similar extent. There's no reason to feel confident that this is confined to the west coast, either.

          The two things the federal government can do are to provide accurate information, particularly about the extent of infections in the US, and to provide the necessary funding to the state and local officials who will actually have to implement social distancing. The expansion of testing in the US is probably already helping to detect a few more cases. It took far too long but we're at least moving in the right direction. The funding is a bigger problem because Congress and the President are too busy arguing with each other to actually pass the necessary legislation. Unfortunately, it may take a big surge in cases before they decide it's urgent and authorize a larger amount of funding, closer to what's probably going to be needed. At the state and local levels, it depends on putting aside politics and putting public safety ahead of business interests. States are generally less divided politically than at the federal level. They may be more decisive in that respect. Trump's statements and many of his actions aren't helpful. I expect that many governors will be more responsible. In terms of economic concerns, that's a bigger concern for me, that some places will prioritize the economy ahead of promptly implementing social distancing.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:27PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:27PM (#964995)

            Facts matter. I did make a mistake in the above post and I want to correct it ASAP.

            Here's an article discussing the amount of infected people arriving in the US prior to the travel restrictions: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/28/health/coronavirus-uncounted-cases-community-spread/index.html [cnn.com]. The range provided is 4-10, and I'm pretty sure I read a different account where that lower end was three or four. That's splitting hairs. But the 4-10 number was for passengers arriving in California. While a substantial amount of air travel from China does go to California, there were almost certainly more infected passengers arriving elsewhere in the country. If a significant portion of the passengers were students, and that seems likely in that time period, that suggests that infected passengers may have dispersed throughout the country. There's no reason to think that California and Washington State are unique in the amount of infections. My error was not in the number, but in thinking it referred to the entire country rather than just California.

            • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:16PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:16PM (#965119)

              You can get per-nation updates at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries [worldometers.info] FYI

              (I guess my providing a useful link on a single line triggers spamdetect too)

              (ah well)

              Lorem ipsum?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:31PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:31PM (#965037)

          if we can't stop infections, it will be ugly - way worse than 1918 flu.

          No, it won't. With as much evidence as you provide.

          • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @06:26AM

            by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @06:26AM (#965366)

            You're two sentences are not a refutation that can be taken seriously either. If you want to refute it, use numbers, stats, and sound logic.

            We're listening.

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @08:52PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @08:52PM (#965070)

          You may want to know that there are 258 severe cases outside Hubei in all the rest of China combined: 7,365 minus 7,107. Per total 2,370 patients presently ill there: 35,329 - 32959. That is 11%, not 18%. Straight from China NHC:
          http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/yqtb/202003/9d462194284840ad96ce75eb8e4c8039.shtml [nhc.gov.cn]
          When calculating anything about this virus, subtract Hubei. It somehow behaves VERY differently EVERYWHERE else.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @08:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @08:41PM (#965066)

        In Chinese, and site requiring Javascript to access:
        http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/xxgzbd/gzbd_index.shtml [nhc.gov.cn]
        A report for every day gets posted some hours after the day ends. Report contains daily change in number of confirmed cases, severe cases, deaths, recoveries, and suspected cases, and the cumulative numbers of the above; for all China, then separately for Hubei province, specifically denoting the part for Wuhan.
        The one for February 29th: http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/yqtb/202003/9d462194284840ad96ce75eb8e4c8039.shtml [nhc.gov.cn]

        Presently, one can see that a daily reduction in number of severe cases is about 10x higher than the number of deaths. Which means that while about 10% of people with severe form of infection die, the other 90% get better (same percentage as with severe flu infection BTW). ("Severe form" is defined as severe pneumonia requiring oxygen supplementation or artificial ventilation.)
        As of today, they report 12,917 (79,824 - 66,907) confirmed cases outside Hubei, of them 109 (2,870 - 2,761) died and 10638 (41,825 - 31,187) recovered. Which gets you roughly 1% death rate. What, how, and why happened in Wuhan to bring death rate there to a whopping 10% (2,195 deaths with 19,227 recoveries) and in the rest of Hubei to 4.5% (566 dead per 11,960 recovered) , we may never get to learn, but to do any informed thinking, you need to de-skew the data by substracting Hubei.

        Use Google Translate to read it for yourself, and work out the numbers to your satisfaction.

    • (Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:08AM (2 children)

      by driverless (4770) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:08AM (#964792)

      Well that just proves it, it's a manufactured virus cheaply mass-produced in China for getting rid of our Old People.

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:41AM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:41AM (#964800) Journal

        it's a manufactured virus

        Yes [nature.com]

        to examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs, we built a chimeric virus encoding a novel, zoonotic CoV spike protein...

        seems that way

        --
        Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:33PM (#964924)

        Is it the same lab that's engineering the climate hoax? Very smart people in JJJJJJJJJJJhina.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:09PM (1 child)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:09PM (#964908)

      unless more people with mild symptoms are tested.

      I'd say more likely: when more people with mild symptoms are tested. In your stats, how many have been tested and found negative?

      --
      Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:02PM (#965023)

        If we just stop testing then the number of cases testing positive will surely go down. Right? What works for CO2 also works for COVID19.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44067797 [bbc.com]

    • (Score: 2) by quietus on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:33PM (4 children)

      by quietus (6328) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:33PM (#965038) Journal

      No. No. No. Your 7 percent, which you keep repeating on this site and the green one, under different usernames, is bogus -- even by the numbers on worldometer itself, the site you keep referencing.

      Allow me to quote the flagship medical journal of the BMC Series:

      The symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, dry cough, fatigue, nasal congestion, sore throat and diarrhoea. On February 14th, the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (China CDC) published the first details of 44,672 confirmed cases, in the biggest study since the outbreak began [3]. Their findings show that COVID-19 was mild for 81% of patients and had an overall case fatality rate of 2.3%. Of those confirmed cases, only 2.2% were under 20 years old. Compared to adults, children generally present with much milder clinical symptoms. It is likely that future serological studies will show much asymptomatic disease in children. As opposed to H1N1, pregnant women do not appear to be at higher risk of severe disease. The severity of the disease appears to be associated with age, with the elderly most at risk; those over 80 years of age had a Case Fatality Rate (CFR) of 14.8%. The CFR was also increased in those with comorbidities including cardiovascular, diabetes, chronic respiratory disease, hypertension, and cancer. The cause of death is respiratory failure, shock or multiple organ failure.

      I've put a number of items in the text above in bold, due to all the panicky things about the seriousness of covid-19 I've read here.

      Once again, I pose the question: the scientific community has decided to publish all research and facts in the open for all to see. Prominent scientific publications (Nature.com, TheLancet.com) have dedicated free sections on covid-19. Independent medical institutions (John Hopkins, the WHO, CDC) gather data directly from the field and publish it in the open. Why then do you choose to keep referencing a site which hasn't even got the population numbers correct for my own country, Belgium? Why do you keep pushing that 7% number as every scientific article published on Nature.com, theLancet.com and WHO insist on a CFR of around 2%?

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:12PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:12PM (#965079)

        Day-by day reports; in Chinese, and site requiring Javascript to access:
        http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/xxgzbd/gzbd_index.shtml [nhc.gov.cn]
        A report for every day gets posted some hours after the day ends. Report contains daily change in number of confirmed cases, severe cases, deaths, recoveries, and suspected cases, and the cumulative numbers of the above; for all China, then separately for Hubei province, specifically denoting the part for Wuhan.
        The one for February 29th: http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/yqtb/202003/9d462194284840ad96ce75eb8e4c8039.shtml [nhc.gov.cn]

        Presently, one can see that a daily reduction in number of severe cases is about 10x higher than the number of deaths. Which means that while about 10% of people with severe form of infection die, the other 90% get better (same percentage as with severe flu infection BTW). ("Severe form" is defined as severe pneumonia requiring oxygen supplementation or artificial ventilation.)
        As of today, they report 12,917 (79,824 - 66,907) confirmed cases outside Hubei, of them 109 (2,870 - 2,761) died and 10638 (41,825 - 31,187) recovered. Which gets you roughly 1% death rate. What, how, and why happened in Wuhan to bring death rate there to a whopping 10% (2,195 deaths with 19,227 recoveries) and in the rest of Hubei to 4.5% (566 dead per 11,960 recovered) , we may never get to learn, but to do any informed thinking, you need to de-skew the data by substracting Hubei.

        Use Google Translate to read it for yourself, and check the numbers to your satisfaction.

      • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:06PM (2 children)

        by legont (4179) on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:06PM (#965116)

        The site I reference posts all the formula used and I believe the correct one is the one they post:

        3,001 / (3,001 + 42,733) = 7% CFR (worldwide)

        I post under my real name. What is your fucking real name?

        --
        "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday March 02 2020, @06:55PM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 02 2020, @06:55PM (#965610) Journal

          I post under my real name. What is your fucking real name?

          Cool down - knowing your name doesn't make the facts you claim any more or less accurate. It is exactly the same for those with whom you are discussing this matter.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @07:11PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @07:11PM (#965614)

          ok, le gunt

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:00AM (43 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:00AM (#964758)

    Just for my own edification, I looked up US death rates from normal flu - they run between 12,000 and 60,000 annually, depending on the severity of the season.

    The first US death attributable to COVID-19 was officially recorded today: a 50 year old man in Oregon.

    What I want to know is: who wants this global panic? Who is benefiting and is exercising their capacity to fan the flames of fear?

    --
    Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:06AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:06AM (#964761)

      Democrats. It is in their best interest if the world is burning down or the economy crashing around Trump in order to remove attention from the DumpsterFire National Committee.

      • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:08PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:08PM (#965027)

        That's right - they practically frothing at the mouth over End Times and prepping for Revelation. God help them.

        • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:34PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:34PM (#965039)

          Why do Republican administrations always end in panics? 1929, with Hoover, 2008 with Bush, and now the "we're all gonna die!!!!" corona virus. Almost like it was a feature, not a bug. Or virus.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:31AM (5 children)

      by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:31AM (#964766) Homepage Journal

      Who is benefiting

      Off the top of my head: the media's ratings are likely through the roof though I've not checked, lots of opportunity here to make Trump look bad (and he is indulging) and lots of groups are into that, the stock market slip is entirely predictable and so is the rebound and anyone who knows that can get financial benefit, and I'm sure there are people hoping this will spark $revolution they would like to see.

      exercising their capacity to fan the flames of fear

      The media really. Everyone else has to do it through them except the Government. Everyone will assume I mean the mainstream typically left oriented media and I do but I also mean stuff like Rush Limbaugh saying this is only a cold and a democrat conspiracy. Well I suppose I'll see arguments about the government also fanning the flames of fear but I can't immediately cite it.

      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:42AM (4 children)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:42AM (#964815) Journal

        Yeah, agree. Trust the media to hype it to the max. Every few years, there's some new terrible disease. Couple of years ago, it was Zika. Before that, Ebola. Way back in the 1980s and 1990s, it was AIDS. And when it's not something most people have never heard of before, it's some new flu strain that is, of course, more virulent and dangerous than average.

        An additional danger of AIDS was the prejudice it tapped. I strongly suspect a lot of religious conservatives sort of didn't mind AIDS so long as it seemed to afflict mostly the gay community. Probably whispered among themselves it was a punishment from God for the "sin" of homosexuality.

        Other than such idiocy blunting a sensible response, diseases simply aren't as dangerous as they once were. Modern medicine can do a lot . We're not laboring in complete ignorance of microbes, as our ancestors were in the Middle Ages.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @01:59PM (1 child)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @01:59PM (#964876)

          So, AIDS was quite real, and the awareness campaigns did a lot to prevent spread, educate, and even IMO break down a bit of prejudice (can't tackle that one all at one go, but there's clearly more awareness and acceptance of LGBQT since so many prominent celebrities died of AIDS...)

          West Nile and Zika, while not world-threatening, have influenced my behavior away from things like sleeping in unscreened bedrooms in the tropics, and that's probably been a "very good thing" for everyone who managed to reduce their mosquito blood donation levels.

          diseases simply aren't as dangerous as they once were

          This is the big one - I do wonder, if the Spanish Flu of 1918 had hit today would it have even killed 5 million?

          --
          Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:26PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:26PM (#964963)

            The population wasn't as mobile in 1918. Today it might spread faster.

        • (Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:44PM

          by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:44PM (#965107)

          Yeah, agree. Trust the media to hype it to the max.

          Doubly so because it is a science issue. It often seems even the ones trying to report something correctly can't get it right.

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @07:25AM

          by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @07:25AM (#965384)

          Uhhh, I'm not caring about what the media says. Yeah, they may be hyping it up for "sweeps week" type bullshit. Zika was not even in the same ballpark as this. I could get Zika and not die, but just have a much higher risk for kid with a deformed head. Ebola is always not the same at all, because it shows symptoms that much faster. Apples and oranges really.

          Medical advances also have nothing to do with the hype either. It's how fast can you get the advance, how well are you supplied, and basically your current logistics and resources. The fact they came up with something for Ebola at all, makes me agree with you that medical advances are indeed coming. If we can survive long enough, humanity seems likely to crack highly advanced medical within the next couple hundred years. Practically, it's what can we do today though, in today's market, with today's supply chains, etc.

          The reason this is concerning, is just the numbers. If you believe the numbers from the scientists, and believe the statement from the CDC [cdc.gov], then there is some cause for concern. That's not hyping anything.

          If the media reported that there was a million gallons of nitro glycerin held in containers in a building, and we knew it could be hit next week by a another building falling down on top of it, and actual scientists give us accurate numbers about what happens when it explodes, is the media hyping the explosion? Just for reporting it?

          I think the media isn't hyping anything, unless you're talking about the far right conservative response. That's hyping up apathy, blind faith, believe in hoaxes and political motivated stunts, etc. What I got from the media, were things that could be verified with government statements very easily. Like the community spread statement I cited. I'm not sure where to find official statements regarding the whistleblower statement, but I'm trying to get a direct link to it to cite it. They were legitimately pointing out that the current response was inadequate, and if the whistleblower report is true, represents something that needs to be handled immediately. So I see public service that we actually want out of our journalists vs hyping a story for max ad impressions.

          The numbers from that worldcounters website from above aren't hype either.

          I agree with you, that idiocy is blunting a sensible response. That sensible response is to respond to the data, and have data-driven decisions. Looking at the data, the fact it isn't as dangerous as some of its predecessors is precisely why it can create a perfect storm capable of overwhelming capacity to respond.

          It's just numbers. How many beds. How many ventilators. How many test kits. How many doses of experimental cure. How many current community cases, and how many projected. Rate of spread taking into account current and forecasted social distancing. Pure numbers. Those numbers show the problem.

          So it's super easy to calm everyone down then. Show, with numbers, that overwhelming capacity is unlikely, and that mortality rate will be lower, and that containment is still possible.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:58AM

      by fustakrakich (6150) on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:58AM (#964774) Journal

      Remember the Maine!

      "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war."

      --
      Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:33AM (8 children)

      by RS3 (6367) on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:33AM (#964783)

      > The first US death attributable to COVID-19 was officially recorded today: a 50 year old man in Oregon.

      The story I read said he had other medical problems too.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:49AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:49AM (#964820)

        The story I read said he had other medical problems too.

        One of those was not being from Oregon? My Gawd, people. Do you get your information from Trump pressers, where it was a very nice lady who only drove it to Church on Sundays?

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:02PM (6 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:02PM (#964879)

        I only read the headline, I assumed the story would get into his complicating factors, and whether the story got into it or not, he's #1, after all this time and hoopla, after at least 2000 US deaths from "normal" flu, now we've finally got #1.

        I don't feel like the hospitals are overflowing yet.

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:43PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:43PM (#964898)

          > I don't feel like the hospitals are overflowing yet.

          No one expects exponential growth (with an apology to Monty Python):

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth [wikipedia.org]

          Anyone have a clue what the exponent is this time?

          • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:37PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:37PM (#964926)

            > Anyone have a clue what the exponent is this time?

            It's the small number they draw on the top right next to the other one.

            • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:30PM (1 child)

              by RS3 (6367) on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:30PM (#965101)

              It's the small number they draw on the top right next to the other one, but that's not important right now.

              Sorry, that's from some lines from some old movies...

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @12:52AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @12:52AM (#965162)

                And stop calling me Shirley!

        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:34PM (1 child)

          by RS3 (6367) on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:34PM (#965102)

          Yeah, I was trying to amplify your point- that the only US death so far was someone who was already sick with other problems. I don't know the comorbidities.

          I hate hype, overreaction, etc., but maybe this will get people into some better habits, like better handwashing, etc. I'm usually pretty good with hygiene, but I do think about it a little more now.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @01:36PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02 2020, @01:36PM (#965456)

            I almost always wash my hands before going to the toilet.

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:17AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:17AM (#964795)

      Real state of politics: prior to corona, Sanders looked/looks likely to win the DNC nomination, and Trump's approval rating was moving into the positive (49 vs 48). DNC and its media is looking to shake things up in any way possible. The virus is pretty nasty stuff, but the media is currently obviously trying to start a panic over it. I think the goal is to try to disrupt the markets and just generally try to unsettle society, since practically any outcome (from their myopic perception) would be better than the status quo.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:34AM (4 children)

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:34AM (#964844) Journal

        Why does this have to have a political driver behind it? This is happening worldwide - it has got nothing at all to do with US politics.

        However, if your media is trying to present it in a way that shows that the US government is ill-prepared for a pandemic, well the same could probably be said about ANY government. Three months ago nobody had even heard of this virus, let alone did anyone have stockpiles of equipment, contingency plans or a health care system that is in a good position to treat the large number of potential cases and to counter the risks that the virus presents. We are all having to react from a standing start - not every idea will be a good one, mistakes will be made, and lives will be lost. What is needed now is international cooperation. Share the good ideas and also admit the lessons learned from the bad. Let's solve the problem and not try to settle old scores. All political parties in all countries should be playing their part.

        How about military hospitals being created in relatively remote areas so that for the less serious cases where isolation and relatively simple medical care can be provided, freeing the more expensive resources for the more serious cases?

        Doesn't anybody 'think' about what they read and hear from TV in the USA?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:22AM (1 child)

          by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:22AM (#964852) Homepage Journal

          Doesn't anybody 'think' about what they read and hear from TV in the USA?

          No. We are suffering greatly from a lack of critical analysis which has been a long running problem. In this specific case it seems to be made worse by inflexible positions and partisanship.

          I made the mistake of saying "The media is doing everything they can to attack Trump using this virus as a weapon and it's to the detriment of us all!" in the vicinity of an absolute Trump hater. A Trump hater that I often enjoy hating on Trump with. I don't hate Trump so much that everything anti-Trump becomes good though and I certainly did not expect them to go that way. But they did and I got back defense of the media's handling of the situation. My point has been consistently that the media has not been working very hard to reduce panic in this situation. I think it's obvious to almost everyone that is the case. With in the last day though I've seen a turn towards some constructive behavior though which is encouraging but it's not enough. They were unable to muster enough criticism of the media to get beyond "if it bleeds it leads" and then latched on to a tiny little thing that would support their position that the media is not being irresponsible. We did not budge past that.

          If I had managed to say a more neutral "The media is doing everything they can to make money off our panic and it's to the detriment of us all!" I give it a chance that would have gone better. However I think that is such a slight restatement of the position that it is equivalent since Trump is in fact the tool for causing panic. Because I see the statements as equivalent I'm going to practice a touch of self censorship and try to remember to keep that much detail out so I don't just turn off people and complicate this further.

          This is a very simple mater of prioritization. Hold the president accountable but as you say no one was prepared for this. Trump has not yet failed entirely in every way though he has certainly failed in at least one specific way I clearly described in other comments. I personally hope that Trump does not fail in every single way and we suffer greatly for it but I don't think that's a universally held opinion. Until and probably still usefully after Trump does entirely and completely fail the media should be sending messages about how to protect ones self and others so frequently and so prominently that every single person either has seen the information and knows it first hand or if anyone anywhere asks about it multiple people around them know the answer and the answers are consistent because the same message of action is being pushed out.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:06PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:06PM (#964880)

            the media has not been working very hard to reduce panic in this situation.

            It's pretty clear from my newsfeed that they're pushing the panic button as fast and hard as they can.

            Preparedness is good. There's plenty of things we waste our time and effort on that could be better spent on things like healthcare infrastructure. But, I swear, this is like trying to pump out fear of skin cancer and pushing for implementation of the associated mitigations based on a single solar flare.

            --
            Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:01PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:01PM (#965074)

          Observe the reaction (rather the lack of) in India, Russia, Vietnam; a very lackluster one in Thailand and Malaysia; TOTAL ignore in Indonesia and Turkey. Do you really believe they could have the number of cases they report (three, two, sixteen; 42 and 29; total ZERO) when everyone around got much more; and do you think people there would not be noticing a thing if the virus was really as damaging as fearmongers claim?

          • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday March 02 2020, @08:40AM

            by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 02 2020, @08:40AM (#965401) Journal

            Perhaps their populations don't spend as much time in the places that westerners do. How many Thais or Indonesians did you see on the ski slopes of N Italy this year? Perhaps Indians aren't flying around the world as much as westerners do. When your daily income just covers the cost of living, then perhaps air travel isn't a priority. Maybe they just think that they have the flu and are carrying on with their lives. Or even, maybe they don't caught up in the hype of TV or media as much as we do.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:25PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:25PM (#964887)

        Trump's approval rating was moving into the positive (49 vs 48).

        What alternate universe did this fake news crossover from?

        the goal is to try to disrupt the markets and just generally try to unsettle society, since practically any outcome (from their myopic perception) would be better than the status quo.

        Nobody is that obtuse. How unsettled was society when W was re-elected? Gas prices through the roof, thousands of kids coming home missing limbs - or dead, the world hating U.S. nearly as much as they do today...

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
    • (Score: 2) by edIII on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:17AM (10 children)

      by edIII (791) on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:17AM (#964808)

      That's not what there is to be panicked about. Nearly everyone agrees that the mortality rate is lower than the viruses that came before. I don't know if it's general knowledge, but most people seem to know that babies have the best chance, and its' the old and immune compromised that are getting hit the hardest. Most will live through it, and some might be entirely asymptomatic the whole time.

      The virus isn't going to kill us, it isn't going to turn us into zombies.

      What it WILL do is interrupt supply chains worldwide, because of how many people may get sick at the same time. It's in part economic panic, and it's not unreasonable. For many people right now, shit is going to be pretty bleak business wise for the next several quarters. That's current disruption.

      This is global, so panic, is very much going to be a determination based on the country you are in. France I don't think would be a huge problem, because if you get sick their right now, both culture and socialized medicine provide for them to stay home in their own beds and to be visited by a doctor.

      The US? There is a reason to be very concerned, and every reason to believe there could massive disruptions in worker productivity, and severe adverse impacts upon our health care system in a relatively short time period.

      A few feet of water is nothing to panic about at all, and the drops from the rain are usually safe to ignore. It's when it all comes down at once in a Tsunami, that there is a problem.

      You're level of panic here is probably going to be directly related to what level of sophisticated knowledge you have about our social service, health & human services, industrial and medical supply chains, and whether or not we have the government that could handle the problem appropriately, in an orderly and timely manner, that would leave us with nothing to be panicked about. I think we both know, that it will come down across political lines now, what level of panic you have. For those that don't believe in the current government, there is no amount of consolation, or drugs or hypnosis, that will give us faith to believe the Emperor can handle this. So practically, we need to deal with a population that has a very low level of confidence right now. That can, and does lead to panic in many cases.

      I'm not sure there is somebody trying to cause global panic, but chaos is always profitable for some. It doesn't mean the chaos was caused by them though. This is most likely a virus we would need to deal with anyways, and I think events like this will be more common in the future. At least until we crack genetics and nano technology sufficiently to come up with all-cure. New viruses and resistant bacteria are a way of life until then.

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @08:20AM

        by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @08:20AM (#964833) Journal

        France I don't think would be a huge problem, because if you get sick their right now, both culture and socialized medicine provide for them to stay home in their own beds and to be visited by a doctor.

        I think that you really mean that most of the world has socialized medicine, outside of the USA. It is certainly the case throughout Europe, Europeans can visit a hospital anywhere oin Europe and get treatment as if they were in their own country of birth. Much is true of Eastern Europe too, although the health care provided might not be of the top-tier standard that Americans seem content to have to pay for - or go without. Australia and NZ have excellent facilities too. Africa and the Middle East depends exactly where you are. Many capital and major cities have good facilities but travel too far from them and the standard can deteriorate quite significantly.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:31PM (5 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @02:31PM (#964891)

        What it WILL do is interrupt supply chains worldwide, because of how many people may get sick at the same time.

        That's a disagreement of verb intensity: WILL != may.

        Further, supply chain labor isn't exactly infungible, one Amazon delivery driver or warehouse packer calls in sick, it's not like you can't hire another one tomorrow. What's the duration of the illness? A couple of weeks? Financial markets that run their bets on fraction of a percent differential margins can panic, the rest of the world should CTFD.

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:16PM (2 children)

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:16PM (#964913) Journal

          How do countries believe that they were ever in a position to defend themselves from military threats if our whole economy can be brought to its knees by a virus that has crippled one of the USA's potential enemies more than anyone else at the present time?

          Perhaps we ought to learn to live together instead of squabbling over the planet's resources. Nah, where is the profit in that...?

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:30PM (1 child)

            by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:30PM (#964921)

            Spanish Flu (1918) killed more people worldwide than WW-I and WW-II combined.

            Perhaps we ought to learn to live together

            Noble thought, I believe it has been suggested before.

            --
            Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:41PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @03:41PM (#964928)

              > Noble thought, I believe it has been suggested before.

              So do it already. Jeez you guys are IDIOTS!11!!

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:29PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:29PM (#965128)

          It's not "will", nor "may", but "shall continue to".

          Further, supply chain labor isn't exactly infungible

          What? It's not the container shippers, truckers, and train folk who are the chokepoint. Those are few bodies, and others can delay vacation, pull overtime or get trained up.

          It's production.

          To understand, you need some background. Do you know what "thin manufacturing" and "the Toyota Way" are? If not look them up - they're currently the preferred method of business for companies with physical production.

          I'll wait...

          ... ok done? Now you surely see why covid-19 is already disrupting worldwide production.

          Citation: I work with two companies with tangible products. The R&D-phase robotics company is stalled on two critical HW branches due to parts which not only aren't here, but haven't yet been *made* and for which we don't have a schedule. The other, we do most of our manufacturing in a few scattered factories in China but then do our final QC and assembly in-house here so we can stamp "assembled in Canada" on it (and also so third shifters don't have the final puzzle pieces), and some of our products are going to be out of stock for weeks at this rate - we had enough shelf stock to last until about now, but some products we are having to tell people we can call them back once we're in stock. Ie. we're being hit by this disruption, right now, on our bottom line.

          So not "will", nor "may", but "shall continue to" is the reality.

          • (Score: 2) by quietus on Monday March 02 2020, @04:34PM

            by quietus (6328) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 02 2020, @04:34PM (#965542) Journal

            The production line of the electrical Audi versions (based in Brussels) is going to be shutdown [teslarati.com] for at least 10 days -- supply shortages, one of which is for the tail lights.

      • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday March 02 2020, @01:47PM (2 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday March 02 2020, @01:47PM (#965459) Journal

        What it WILL do is interrupt supply chains worldwide, because of how many people may get sick at the same time. It's in part economic panic, and it's not unreasonable.

        In other words, no cheap plastic shit from China for a while? Oh noes. No fresh apples from South America in the middle of March? How will we ever survive? No oil from the Middle East? Oh, look, the US is a net oil exporter these days.

        We'll live. There's a silver lining in a global supply chain disruption, too, in that domestic production may get an opportunity to revive and reposition itself better when global chain resumes.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @07:50PM (1 child)

          by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @07:50PM (#965637)

          You really just don't fucking get it. The economic part is survivable. I survived 2008 with almost everything stolen from me by banks. I'm still here. I get your point.

          This is about how many people will die, how many of us will be left without our parents, and whether or not we can withstand the onslaught against our current medical system.

          It's pure fucking numbers dude. No politics, no economics, just numbers. Those numbers tell us, that under our conditions, we need to prepare for more than just economic disruption. We need to prepare for where we're going to store the bodies.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday March 03 2020, @05:26AM

            by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday March 03 2020, @05:26AM (#965870) Journal

            I do get it. Only a couple people out of a hundred will die from the thing, but that's small consolation for them and their loved ones. But since you're talking about numbers, correctly, a couple people out of a hundred dying leaves 90+ behind to do the burying and making arrangements.

            --
            Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:12AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01 2020, @11:12AM (#964857)

      Just for my own edification, I looked up US death rates from normal flu - they run between 12,000 and 60,000 annually, depending on the severity of the season.

      12,000 vs. 2,000,000-5,000,000

    • (Score: 2) by legont on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:25PM (4 children)

      by legont (4179) on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:25PM (#964962)

      We should not compare this one to a regular flu season. It is a new desease. Population does not have any immunity, no vaccine is available. Also, severity and death rate are a few times higher than flu's.
      If we let it go, in a few years it may become a seasonal cold with death rate similar to flu, but the very first season may be very bad.

      --
      "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:43PM (3 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @06:43PM (#965011)

        the very first season may be very bad.

        Agreed, and much of the precaution is warranted and not unusual, I seem to remember mid 2003 having similar travel restrictions to China for whatever was cooking back then.

        However, our beloved media has spun this one (and so many similar things in the past) so hard that it's difficult to gauge appropriate individual response, and a large chunk of the population has reached such a level of fear monger fatigue that they are simply not going to respond at all. Meanwhile, there's a run on disposable facemasks even worse than during the Anthrax scares, fed by that other part of the population that's over-responding to the fear messaging.

        Me, personally, I'm keeping hands-in-pockets more than usual when out shopping - I might even break with my normal tradition and use some hand sanitizer once in a while when I feel exposed. I doubt I'll be able to break my habit of rubbing my eyes, as such I do hope to simply get the dumb virus and get over it as quickly as possible. I'll do my best to stay out of public while I know I have it, too bad most other people won't.

        --
        Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by legont on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:14PM (1 child)

          by legont (4179) on Sunday March 01 2020, @07:14PM (#965029)

          I remember 2002 SARS well because I had a trip to Asia planned and I took it right in the middle of the outbreak. Perhaps I was younger but... I did check statistics and decided it was a reasonable risk. I don't see the current one this way.

          --
          "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:39PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:39PM (#965104)

            By April of 2003, local executives were cancelling trips to China over SARS - not sure how much else went on...

            --
            Україна досі не є частиною Росії.
        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Monday March 02 2020, @07:59AM

          by edIII (791) on Monday March 02 2020, @07:59AM (#965394)

          It's not that bad or onerous to take sensible precautions here. The best and most practical way to handle this is cheap and easy. $4-$6 at a discount store.

          - 70% alcohol (a regular sized bottle is plenty, no need to make a run on it). If you get 91%, it's just that much faster.
          - Makeup cloth thingies. 200 count.

          Substitute with medical prep wipes, a 400 count is $12.99. Or substitute with a hand sanitizer that has 70% alcohol as the active ingredient. I'm having some shipped in. Should last us weeks, and its costing less than $50.

          Take just a moment, which is good for you anyways, and wipe down surfaces in your car and clean them. Clean the door handles on the inside and outside, and where you touch. A quick once over in your environments. Wouldn't kill you to wipe the keyboard down either, or your phone. Car, phone, house, and bedroom took me 20 minutes. Bonus, my stuff is clean, and there are no gunk buildup smudges on my light switches.

          All I'm doing is a few easy things. Not touching my face with my fingers. I rub my eyes too a lot because of dryness, but I do it with the back of my hand or wrist, which I don't use on other surfaces. Pinky finger to open bathroom doors, 20 seconds to wash your hands with soap, touching things only when necessary, and cleaning my hands before I get back into the car. Lastly, cleaning my hands before I touch the front door to go back inside.

          The effort isn't much at all, and quite frankly, if you live in a community spread city, they're quite a reasonable and practical response. Not overboard, not panicked, just pragmatic, cheap, effective, and simple. If everybody calmly did that for 10 days, and spent time cleaning their homes and workspaces, you just might beat the community spread. So pweeeety please consider it.

          Sincerely, good luck and good health. To everyone.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
  • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:23AM (3 children)

    by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday March 01 2020, @04:23AM (#964764) Homepage Journal

    https://youtu.be/YZrqxxahlyQ?t=281 [youtu.be] The link is to a specific time because the few seconds before the audio will explode in volume. There is no useful information lost except "we have a new coronaviRUSUSUSURURURURURURURURURURUR" *dead air*

    This video was not considered reliable enough for inclusion but as far as I can tell it is in fact true and I have not been able to find another source. There is lots of information in there including the statements about symptom profile changes to include mild flu and mild cold only.

    • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:15AM (2 children)

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @09:15AM (#964841) Journal

      This video was not considered reliable enough for inclusion

      That was not quite what we said - we do not have the time to verify he accuracy of social media, including sources such at Youtube and other videos, Twitter feeds, or claims on Facebook. We want to ensure that we can link to a reputable source for any of the stories that we cover, and we cannot do this with video material or social media. Secondly, we can read a submission in a matter of a minute or two, but we do not have the time to watch a complete video to decide if the content is suitable for our use.

      There is nothing preventing members of our community from posting links to such material in their journals, or watching a video and submitting a summary, preferably supported by other non-social-media reporting.

      It might not surprise you to know that we have already had attempts (some years back - around 2015 if I recall correctly) to get links to unsuitable material published within a story. The video started out innocently enough but then suddenly switched to a politically biased rant and, in at least one case, the link was to adult material. Neither were related to the subject under discussion.

      • (Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:00AM (1 child)

        by Knowledge Troll (5948) on Sunday March 01 2020, @10:00AM (#964850) Homepage Journal

        I didn't think the editorial choice was a bad idea though I didn't think about the case of verifying that the video is not something like bait and switch. Such a decision sounds good to me. Additionally I had not pondered the fact that there had never been a video used like that before in an article that was published. My really flippant view was that the submission requirements made me actually do a decent job on the submission.

        But I also think you just enumerated all the ways such content is not reliable. And I figured if I was going to provide content in here of that nature such a note was in order.

        • (Score: 2) by janrinok on Sunday March 01 2020, @12:17PM

          by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 01 2020, @12:17PM (#964867) Journal

          No problem - we didn't think that you were trying to pull the wool over our eyes but once we let one person do it well, you can imagine the possible outcome....

          However, in this instance, you had done exactly what we suggested others should do and you included it in your journal. Thank you.

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